Worth noting is that the Dragon's Fury also technically has Situational Crits, since it does 3x damage against burning targets (same damage multiplier as crits)
@@orcashamudeluxeu567 not really because buildings take only true damage so 75 is base damage, the penalty is a damage reduction not a non crit penalty
The no random crit line is more of a "feeling balance" imo. Like you pointed out, a good amount of weapons that can't crit have some sort of way to give themselves crits. I personally would be way more upset playing around a back burner pyro's crit mechanic, just to die to random crits. Compared to dying to random crits from a stock Pyro. Or playing around a Demoknight's charge, just to die to a random crit from the eyelander.
Sometimes I feel like Valve is going backwards instead of forwards but this video makes me realize that they do seem to be trying, even if it's misguided at times.
Someone who made an entire video about valve mentioned: "they are not scared to fuck up" Thats why it may feel they are misguided at times. But they definitely went a long way forwards. Too bad the bot creating community went on to kill such a title.
@@tezkyflex7304 It's true. Experimenting with weird balance choices to see what sticks is a pretty good method, and Valve made it work well for them back when they were actively updating the game. Unfortunately, it stops working when balance updates only come out once every few years. Instead of making a change, gathering feedback over the course of a few months, and adjusting the balance again until everything finally seems right, Valve breaks a weapon and leaves it like that. That being said, the state TF2's balance is currently stuck in is probably the best it has ever been, even if it's far from the game's full potential.
It's like a valve trade mark Take csgo (now cs2), we have ak47 and awp both most op gun in csgo and am being specifically for t side , it's unbalanced but despite being broken ,it has become a part of game As ak is an assault rifle it's highly accurate on 1 shot and can headshot anyone across whole map with 100% first shot accuracy , making it most broken gun in csgo , as players have outplayer snipers with this gun That's same with tf2 , we have broken gun which suits as both frustrating and fun element of the game , and whenever companies tries to fix a broken thing they certainly ruin the whole game There are many examples
worth mentioning that the dragon's fury has situational "crits" which just triple the fireball's damage if the center connects on a burning player. it may seem weird why it doesn't just crit instead of dealing more damage but it was likely done so that it's not as underwhelming with kritz
Personally I think it was done that way to give pyro better options against buildings. They set the base damage to 70 (I'm pretty sure that's the correct value), and then added a damage penalty against non-burning targets. Zesty Jesus explained it in his dragon's fury video. Because buildings only ever take base damage, this allows pyro to more easily destroy buildings while still balancing around increased damage vs burning players. In essence, I think this increased damage vs burning players, for balancing purposes, counts as a situational crit, and I wholeheartedly agree. I think a similar principle applies to the short circuit. The energy ball could be considered an on-demand (albeit costly) crit attack. I think this is again the underlying principle in regards to the caber, and was surprised that it's not something he mentioned, instead choosing to focus only on how damaging a crit caber is.
Crits have multiple counters and downside to it, Firstly they don't increase the damage to buildings, second the Buff Banner negates all critical damage and reverts them back to base damage, lastly it cannot be buffed with the Kirtz.
Could the triple damage over crits decision be partly due to damage falloff too? Pyro is a close range class so giving him a situational crit weapon without falloff would maybe make him too versatile at longer ranges.
@@theodoresmith3829 for the Short Circuit, do you thing the Primary fire needs something like the Widowmaker stat of "hitting targets gives metal back" to make it at least have some utility? Maybe even a "consecutive hits increase weapon damage" sort of stat could work as well.
@@drivanradosivic1357 I like the idea of consecutive hits dealing more damage, but on something that doesn't require much aim I don't think getting metal back on hit would be balanced. Especially since metal limitations are the main balancing aspect of the alt-fire, which is the only real reason to use the short circuit in the first place
The Dragon's Fury is sadly just a very shoddily coded weapon. The fire rate is determined by a hidden item meter bar which is why resupply can make you shoot again immediately, and "impulse 101" just makes you go rapid fire. The projectile stops upon any collision with so many other entities when it shouldn't (such as just enemy projectiles), and the projectile itself doesn't even have any visual representation aside from a faint light or crit particles if it's crit boosted. That "fireball" seen from firing is just the muzzleflash created by the Dragon's Fury, always going up to a certain range and always assuming it can't be stopped or reflected. Heck, I'm willing to bet that the reason why it can't randomly crit is because Valve just didn't bother to program in the ability to roll for crits!
insane to me that this game which I have "only" 300 hours in, which I discovered in my 20s, was being played when I was a literal child. incredible longevity.
What i remember reading the skullcutter stats, it also has a movement penalty for drawing the weapon out, so there is a hinderance though a minor one that can be fixed with a shield.
What should've also been addressed is the weapon that has situational and random crits. The KGB. Aside from maybe a few other items (diamondback, phlog), it's really easy and really powerful to get those crits.
The KGB is ok... Heavy being the slowest class in the game has serius problems to get in melee range to any enemy. So, if a heavy kills you with the KGB, or he outplayed you totally, or you just weren't paying any atention to the game, either way, the heavy just won his crits in a fair way.
@@commscan314 Sorry, I deleted the last comment because I missunderstud at first. When you only have text to work with it's difficult to understand when someone is saying something in a good way or an angry way, plus I'm used to have discussions in internet cause I always end up in controversials topics. Anyways, I deleted it to avoid confussions. Sorry again.
"While two seconds of crits from the shortstop are a nuisance at most..." Honestly I've been using the shortstop a lot more lately and crits are devastating. It's not uncommon to 3 shot people at the longest possible ranges. Out to medium range you can still be dealing 100+ per shot and because the random crits are calculated as if for an automatic weapon in my experience it feels like the shortstop random crits all the dang time.
And because Crit Canteens are in MvM, the Shortstop is actually the most powerful primary in MvM. ... Except for a glitched Soda Popper that has a firing speed upgrade even though it doesn't have the upgrade normally.
I used to be a much better shot in TF2 when I was younger, and the Shortstop was my go-to gun. I don't know if it's placebo or what, but it just felt like the shots connected much better than the Scattergun. It's a genuinely decent primary, you get 2 less shots but you reload them all immediately after you're done.
I love the skullcutters crit chance exception. Such a fun weapon as it encourages a sort of "berserker" playstyle even more than other swords. Constantly outputting damage in order to crit consistently.
I think they removed random crits from the enforcer in the fear that the “ignoring resistances” stat of the gun would allow a spy to one shot random crit a medic while he’s vaccinator ubering. Maybe I’m looking too far into it, though.
yeah resistance piercing along with random crits (which spy would actually have a very good chance of getting provided he stabbed someone beforehand) would completely annihilate things like vaccinator, fists of steel and Demoknights in general. Hell even now it's one of the better weapons at dealing with a wrangled sentry off of that resistance piercing alone (granted crits don't work on buildings in the first place)
one sec, the skullcutter, so i think, has already a pretty big downside which is the -15% Movespeed. This might doesnt sound much but that makes the demoman, one of the already slower classes, *barely* faster than a heavy and already a bit slower than the soldier. So having random crits on this thing might sounds like overkill but you have to think about that you basicly can land just 1 hit and than have to leave coz youre basicly a sitting duck with this weapon, barely able to actively GET to your target with that (at least without a shield charge).
I would consider the Dragon’s Fury to effectively act as a situational crit weapon. A solid hit to the center of the hitbox on a flaming target deals triple damage, similar to the flare gun.
@@ekyanso4253 technically it only does 3x damage on a crit as it does -66% damage to non-buring targets instead of 3x to burning ones which makes crits even better (180 compared to 270)
@@daddysempaichan Yeah people shit on random crits on certain weapons, but i guess they are too stock purist to realize how many fucking weapons suck with random crits turned off
@@rude6371 You can get dopamine by doing an air shot with the direct hit, a double donk with the Loose Cannon, an environmental kill with the FaN, whiping out and entire team with a kritzkieg uber, killing enemies with their own proyectiles as pyro, killing a full health player with a well placed sticky trap, doing a taunt kill, killing a cocky player with a trickstab, doing a colateral kill with the machina, trimping all around the map to kill an unexpected prey, killing an unexpected unlucky cloacked spy.... The list goes on, and whithout mentioning the Random Crits.
@@pixavier9746 that is true, but then random crits ALSO dopamine and from a game dev perspective why not have more dopamine? Personally, the proposition I'm the biggest fan of is to remove random crits on anything EXCEPT melee (and maybe even scale back the chances on melee). I'm just too in love with the wackiness of melee crits, and I think they're slightly more balanced as they are at maximum single-target short-range damage bursts. Plenty of melee items should still have the "no random crits" penalty, and hell I even think it should be given to the skullcutter. I just don't want them entirely removed from melee situations.
@@theodoresmith3829 the dophamine you get from a random crit is a expense of somone else entertainment, if you crocket kill ofc it will feel great but imagine what the other person feel, you can also get killed by a random crit most of the time that to get a random crit kill
@@leroy2k582 Well yeah and that's why I think they should be removed from weapons aside from melee. However, given the risk involved with being in melee range of someone else, I think it should be fine to have that random crit reward still possible. Not to mention, when I die to random melee crits I usually just laugh at myself and the situation in general. Everything else mentioned is also at the expense of another player, it's all a matter of perspective
13:08 The phlog was actually suposed to get a nerf. You see, back before tough break you could slip down ledges from a taunt to cancel the animation and get more crits. By making changes to taunts in general, making the pyro immune to any damage and splash damage, you wouldn't be able to extend the crit time of the phlog that was intended... in theory. What happened is instead of making the weapons feel fair for the pyro and those against him they botched a solution, probably because the spaghetti code was too much to handle. I keep hearing that they "buffed the wrong weapon" but i don't think it's that. I think they made lazy changes, not understanding what they would actually mean for the game balance.
you can still taunt cancel anyways, lul. There needs to be certain code that lets 'players taunt mid-air' present on the server in order to stop that exploit. doesn't let them start a taunt mid-air, but prevents any interruption from the taunt ending it early.
The problem was not the taunt, it was the fact that it fully healed you in that patch. My first though break match was in junction with around 7-8 phlog pyros in each team. If tou were about to die you just preased m2, got full hp + crits + über until your taunt ended. The heal was crazily overpowered.
wanna be scared? the phlog, even if it has the "no random crit" tag on it may, on extremely rare moments, actually pull out a random crit. (odds are 1/255 actually)
The thing about the Enforcer is that it used to be able to crit when it had a constant +20% damage bonus allowing it to deal 144 damage with only one shot.
This is a really nice video going into the thought behind why some weapons have a stat most people see as a confusing joke. The only weapon I think which is missing no randomcrits is the back burner.. situational crits but it can random crit anyways. It's not fun to be crit from behind then quickly turn around just to get random crit from the front anyways
I think a big reason the short circuit can't random crit is because the secondary fire can hit multiple times on a single target. Considering it's usually a defensive utility weapon, letting it do THAT much potential damage would likely shake up the entire way the weapon is viewed
I understand that for game balancing reasons it's impossible, but I'd really like to see the kaber come back with that crowd wipe ability, it is literally a grenade so it would make sense that it could take out multiple enemies at once. But as a drawback it should instantly take out the demo Man too. I know that for competitive 6v6's this is impossible because you could guarantee win the mid-fight and take out half the team, but it's just a nice detail that I think would be cool
On the topic of the dragon's fury: As others have pointed out, it has it's own damage bonus against burning players(and buildings). It should be noted that the bonus damage is equal to a critical hit, but IS NOT a critical hit in of itself. Which means that the bonus damage can be crit boosted, allowing for 900% damage boosts for one hit, a max of 225 damage, in just one shot. The damage boost is most likely the main reason they chose to deny random crits on it. Given the Dragon's Fury high dps with its fast firing speed and constant afterburn, crit chances are inherently higher, as random crit chance grows with damage in the last 20 seconds. Not to mention, the low first shot damage would be completely negated if the first shot was a random crit.
8:58 "Attacks pierce damage resistance effects and bonuses". Imagine having a damage resistance weapon like a shield or a banner only to get random critted by a pew-pew spy. If the enforcer didn't have the random crits disabled, it could potentially be as affective as the old ambassador or better.
You know, if you do the math, the ability to randomly crit makes the weapon do 25.75% more damage than ones that cannot (assuming the crit chance stays at its median of 8.25%). So it actually makes sense on paper that the stat ‘No random critical hits’ is equivalent to ‘-25% damage done’, except it doesn’t actually work out in practice.
I think demo's swords and the 6 other melee weapons with the no random crit downside to have it changed to "reduced random crit chance." This new downside would lower the crit chance from 15-60% to 5-20%. This would make those weapons more usable in combat, and for demo's swords it would open up loadout variety by making pairing a sword with a sticky launcher more feasible.
11:58 the other thing is the way the DF basically already "crits" burning targets for 3x damage like flare guns. In actuality it has a 66% penalty hitting nonburning targets, so it's base damage is actually that full 90ish (which is what it does to buildings) so in effect the critlike damage "boost" for repeat hits is a built in sort of functional reward system on it - adding random crits would needlessly negate that. The only reason it really isn't just using a crit system anyways is because that would make it too inconsistent since crits are counterable through unusual ways (and of course it would result in both neutered synergy with critboosting vulnerabilities such as a banner soldier or kritz medic, as well as meaning the base damage would be that weak 30 and would make the weapon extremely bad vs engineer buildings). In effect the dragons fury has a crit system much like other situational crit weapons, justifying it being unable to random crit.
So, the reason why the guillotine doesn’t random crit, is the same reason why they removed them in the first place. Due to the range and high damage on throw, a crit would one shot light and medium light classes from outside the scouts intended range
The dragons fury does actually have situational crits, if you hit an enemy in the center of the fireball it lists it as doing 300% more damage, which is basically the same thing
the way dragon's fury calculates damage is weird as fuck. you can either take the blue pill and say that dragon's fury does 300% more damage to burning players or take the red pill and say that dragon's fury does 300% less damage to non-burning players
9:59 I think the reason it can’t random crit is that its secondary fire is an energy ball, which is copy and pasted from the Tesla Coil halloween spell. The spell can’t be crit boosted at all, so it would make little sense for the primary fire to be able to random crit and have the secondary one never be able to crit ever. Also the secondary fire never worked like a conventional fire mode so it’s a bit hard to come up with a new way to roll for crits for something that’s barely used.
Honestly, as someone who has a good amount of knowledge on the Skullcutter, I think it is because that is the single "Sword" in game that is not meant for Demoknight. It's a "Sword" melee that is closer to being a zoning tool that allows you to handle close range classes such as spy more effectively. The Eyelander and the other swords have benefits as you said, but a notable difference is their benefits for almost all swords are based on shield usage for viability. The Mor and Persuader both have benefits that exclusively benefit shield usage, melee kills for the Mor and Hits + Ammo Boxes for the Persuader restore charge. The Eyelander (and reskins) are effectively a downgrade until you take two heads if you aren't using the Boots, and even then the Boots require a shield to get most of their positive effects aside from the 25 health boost. Finally, the Zatoichi is based around the Honorbound mechanic which allows you to one shot other Zatoichi users, but if you don't get a kill with it, you lose 50 health for putting it away. So you are either putting yourself at an inherent disadvantage by not using a shield, you are taking a downgrade unless you manage to get two heads or use Boots and preferably Shield, or you are risking your own life to not be able to use your grenade or stickybomb launcher so you can possibly heal on kill. The Skullcutter is the single exception. It gives a flat damage bonus for a slower movespeed, which given the high mobility of a Demo with the Stickybomb Launcher, that isn't an issue. The Skullcutter is basically the everyman "Sword" as it fits in every Demo Loadout without fail because of how versatile it is. If you wanna play Stock? Why not use the Skullcutter? Wanna torment Snipers? Use BASE Jumper and Sticky Jumper with the Skullcutter. Demoknight? Boots, Shield of Choice, Skullcutter. Need to Defend? Grab yourself Iron Bomber, Scottish Resistance, Skullcutter. If the Skullcutter had no random critical hits, it would still see use, and quite a bit of it and that's the beauty of it. 78 damage is enough to two shot Light Classes and three shot Medium Classes. The only people who could naturally survive this is Heavies and Boots + 4 Head Demos. Three Skullcutter hits (Or a single crit) is 234 damage, and a Demo with max heads and boots is 235. Everyone else either needs overheal to survive three hits or cannot survive three hits or a crit at all. So all in all, even if you remove the Random Crits, Skullcutter Demoknights are still going to terrorize entire enemy teams, especially using things like the Tide Turner because of the wide range of motion and the fact they can two shot heavies without overheal. The Skullcutter is still a powerful tool for killing anything below 150hp, which means a good demo can drop a medic or force them to pop uber. Finally, it also means the Skullcutter becomes a more balanced multitool.
The original Enforcer with the damage bonus at all times and random crits was a nightmare to fight against! Imagine the Diamondback but even stronger! And you’d be doing a lot of damage so you could get random crits easily.
I believe the Scotman Skullcutter being able to random crit helps offset of the biggest downside it has, which is a reduced movement speed. Shields on demoknight is all about mobility at a cost of explosive damage and range. Nerfing the single aspect which makes Demoknight a somewhat viable and fun subclass is hypocritical. In addition, it has no utility or sustainability of any sort unlike other swords, like shield recharge, healing, or extended charge time. Being at such a close range with enemies, you take a lot of damage, so sustainability and utility are very useful for Demoknights. Scotman Skullcutter is good at one thing only. In combination with its damage bonus and crit, it can one-shot Heavies. Its all about damage, which is why theyre often used in troll builds for MvM Demoknights. Removing random crits in Scotsman Skullcutter will tip the line from being barely usable yet beneficial to being next to trash. Because of its slower holster deployment, it cant compete against stock bottles, as the bottle also crits.
Don’t quote me on this because I’m not 100% sure but I heard that the reason the short circuit can’t random crit is because it’s projectile technically counts a spell
8:26 Another thing of note about the Ullapool Caber is that it can't minicrit either (at least on shield charges). Probably for similar reasons as to why it can't random crit (low skill, high reward).
And the dmg it depends on where u are hitting them. If u are above the enemy it deals lesser dmg,but u can one a sniper,engie,scout or spy if u are under him.
Ever since i seen a server where the caber had infinite explosive hits, ive thought "why dont they just keep the current downside, and add the infinite explosives and maybe a crits turn into minicrits like the cow mangler has for shields n stuff"
Following on the video, it seems like the reason the dragon's fury can't random crit as opposed to random individual shot crits might be more so due to the weapon's base being that of the flamethrower, as pointed out with the shortstop, despite appearing to be a single shot weapon, it instead uses the rapid fire crit system, this might be due to the shortstop''s base being that of a rapid fire weapon: the pistol. From this I think the main reason the dragon's fury can't crit might be due to the crit systems being tied to the weapon's type/base as opposed to each weapon individually. As a side note, seeing as flamethrowers and miniguns being the only (from the top of my head) weapons that use a single pooled ammo supply as opposed to clips and reserves (discounting the widowmaker and short circuit since they use metal and not their specific ammo) flamethrowers and miniguns may be grouped under the same weapon type and hence share the same rapid fire random crit system, so making the dragon's fury to have a distinctively different crit system opposed to all other pooled ammo supply weapons may be simply too specialized to be justified adding to the already existing spaghetti code (imagine creating a whole entire weapon type just so a single weapon can crit differently, it just isn't worth it, the other option being to rework the entire random crit system to apply to individual weapons as opposed to individual types/groups of weapons). As a side side note, this might be also why the short circuit can't random crit, since the short circuit has a pistol base, the weapon inherently has the rapid fire crit system, but this would clash with the weapon's arguably more utilized alt-fire which appears/acts as a single shot style weapon, hence they simply opted to have no random crits overall.
No it doesn't. It just doesn't have the "no random crits" mentioned in the stats. You're welcome to test it if you want, but it will never randomly crit.
Great video, I think you did a great digging into valve's mentality when adding the stat, although there's one thing: I was hoping that you would, much like you explained why certain weapons CAN'T random crit, explain why other weapons CAN random crit despite having fairly common situational crits (like the flare gun) still tho, really good video :)
I thought you were going to talk about how random crit chance is also calculated using base damage, which means crits actually deal 9x damage for the dragon's fury instead of just 3x
The Dragon Fury's base damage isn't 25, it actually deals 75 base damage because hitting a building will also deal 75 damage. The reason why it deals 25 initial damage is because the weapon secretly has a 66% damage penalty against non burning players (if it's not crit boosted). Which is why crits will also deal 225 damage.
I think part of the reason swords can't random crits is due to their long range. Melee's have a bigger chance to crit, but they're technically balanced by their short range and the mobility of each class (hence why scout bats do so little damage even with crits), giving random crits to Demo's swords, a class who can easily close the clap to his opponents thanks to his mobility and extended range, would be a tad unfair to fight. Which is why I think the reason the Skullcutter is able to random crit is due to it's 15% speed penalty, which puts Demo barely faster than a soldier, essentially Valve thought that with this stat and the slow-holdster speed (and a lack of extra benefits aside from raw damage) the Demo would have a way harder time approaching his opponents to get a use out of the upside (even if playing Demoknight pretty much degates the downsides), so Valve chose to add Random Crits to the weapon as a way to "balance out its weaknesses" since Melee's are more dependant on random crits anyways .
Yea but... In a SHOOTER game, more in a team shooter game like TF2, melees should not be insta killing weapons. The entire idea of melee weapons in this type of games is to be the LAST damage source, when your out of ammo or the enemy is too near from you that you can't aim properly or you receive damage from your own explosives, or utility (in the case of TF2 and the unique stats of each weapon), never a free kill tool. My point is, giving melees the chance of killing a player with a single hit because yes, is not a way to balance them. They shouldn't be used to kill full health players in the first place. The only exception being of course spy, but he doesn't rely on randomnes, instead, he relys on stealth, strategy and mind games to fool his oponents.... And then, all of this high skilled and strategical stuff is just denied AND countered by a single guy holding M1 while having their melee out... Nice.
the best way to see how much "no random crits" makes a diffrence is medieval mode like i cant tell you how many times i got one shotted by a scotsman skull cutter while using a eyelander with plenty of heads
In the case of the phlog I think it's more than just because of situational crits. If the phlog could random crit then it could charge up faster thus getting guaranteed crits more often
So, I have an idea on how to buff the red tape recorder. Yes, it does still have its hefty damage downside, but it has the reversing of building levels, and increases its other damage vulnerabilities by 20%. So you place it down, it starts sapping, and you can start shooting it for a 20% damage increase. That would give it some utility as a way to force the engineer to flee since he cant save his level 3, given how all his shit is being sapped and theres a frontal force about to rip him apart. Makes the weapon into a proper support tool that benefits the team. Like pyros, battle engineers, scouts and heavies. Alternatively, when the sapper is placed, it can be shot to speed up the level decrease process. And on its expiration, all enemies in an 8 meter radius of the destroyed building, are to face guaranteed incoming minicrits for 4 seconds. Making it a good tool for hard fire pushes.
Valve just needs to remove them already. They bring too much dice rolling to a game that should be about team chemistry. Why bother pushing that heavy medic combo with a team when a soldier can just get a random crit rocket, kill the medic instantly and finish the heavy in a follow up shot? Yes, banking on a dice roll is more often than not, a bad idea that will likely get you killed, but the fact that it SOMETIMES works, is just silly. Especially with sniper and demoman who's biggest counters are up close and personal, but it's completely negated when their melee weapon gets a random crit. I've always said how sniper is an overpowered class because of random crits and I still think it's true.
if they removed them, then comments and videos about them would stop coming out 10+ years later after they made the game. immortality is a drug and getting people to make jokes and argue about something that literally doesn't matter is important.
@@krowta2062 community servers exist. for boomers like me, we didnt have a fancy casual matchmaking system, we had a bunch of clans that ran servers that disabled crits and we never even talked about their existence. now its a silly little thing to comment about nowadays because free 2 play casuals
The Sniper is actually OP because they have the only near instant long range accuracy weapon aside from the spy. Their weapon is entirely based on your individual skill and able to 1-shot many classes just by hitting the head uncharged or body while charged negating both weakness they have while still having a decent HP pool. The only "balance" a class like a Sniper has is if they miss, they are balanced ONLY IF THEY MESS UP. This is why cheaters often use them, bots don't mess up often. This is why skilled players often use them, they win most fights. If Melee didn't have high crits they'd just go for headshots and kill you even more often due to practicing accuracy at all ranges. They would become even more oppressive.
Look, in the tf2 community valve is not well liked, but I think it’s important to remember that valve is like the crit a cola, sometimes it’s amazing sometimes it’s…. A thing
I feel like i should mention the Southern Hospitality and how it's relevant to random crits. In Vanilla TF2, the Engineer's crit rate was based around the damage output of his sentry. In theory, this would mean that if you've got yourself a well thought-out sentry nest, you'll do a heckton of damage and in the event that your sentry gets destroyed despite being in heavy's words "kredit to team", you'll be able to defend yourself significantly better than if your sentry placement was bad (most ideal situation would give you a 12% chance to crit with your shotgun and a 60% chance to crit with your wrench). Where the Southern Hospitality comes into play is that the bleed effect gives an alternative means to deal with spies trying to destroy your buildings but in terms of actually defending yourself, you'll lose your 60% option and will more likely have to rely on shotgun crits to avoid a rather pitiful death assuming you're confident that your sentry had killed enough things in a short period of time to benefit from the crit rate calculations.
im guessing they gave the dragons fury no random crits because the mechanic of hitting burning players to get triple damage is akin to getting situational crits
I think the reason why instead of the dragons fury critting on burning players it just deals more damage is so the dragons fury can kill engineer buildings while it’s pushing forwards. So that a dragons fury pyro doesn’t need to wait for a demo to kill a level two sentry and can keep going.
@@dinoaurus1 yeah but since an attack on a non burning player is a damage reduction it means that buildings always take the same amount of damage as burning players. Its weird but it actually works try it in game and attack a building its the same damage as on a burning target.
Honestly, I was surprised on how balanced TF2 was when I first played it 3 months ago. TF2 players need to appreciate Valve tbh, there's a lot more games out there with devs who give 0 fucks about the playerbase.
I like how you supported your conclusions about why valve for example had no random crits on sniper primaries with solid evidence. I expected that to just be a logical conclusion but the part about the sleeper really tied it together
I know why the dragons fury does not crit, it is a strangely implemented weapon. Usually you would have some code sit ontop of the M1 Logic if you wanted to change it, but the dragons fury straight up replaces the Whole m1 logic, and they never call the functions for if the thing should randomly crit or not. I'm unsure if this is an oversighr or not, but it probably is, the whole weapon is kind of jankily written
It's very minor but the Holiday Punch doesn't actually critical hit from behind. It's treated as separate. This can be tested using the Batallion's Backup. While active, random crits won't cause the target to laugh, but a "backstab" will. I think the weapon says something like it causes target to laugh if it crits, or hits from behind.
Funny story, in 2011 I played tf2 for the first time, on the DAY that 25% damage nerf went put was the first time I tried the eyelander, it wasn't until years later that I realized the eyelander doesn't actually have a 25% damage loss because I never looked at it again
Regarding the Short Circuit, the main case here is the DPS. While normally it seem pathetic with 10 damage per hit but with random crits that would deal 30, if that weapon follows the rapid fire system when it comes to random crits, then there is a really good reason for Valve to slap it. You'd be dealing 210 damage in about one second at cost of 35 metal. It can get worse if the alt fire is used as it would deal 90 dmg in one second against a group of players while at the same time remove any projectiles (cept arrows and syringes)
I recon the reason the short curcuit coulnd't crit is because it would require Valve to write additional code to faciliate it's weird firing mechanism getting random crits and it was easy to slap on No Random Crits
The reason the short circuit can't random crit is because it used to be an AoE attack way back in the days- and it was a damn good secondary to use for spy checking and attacking (instead of melee). Basically, same reason why the caber can't randomly crit. The Dragon's Fury can't randomly crit because the way it does the triple damage on successive shots is with a modified crit system. Think of it like the old axtinguisher, hit on fire is a crit. This is also probably the same reason why fire from it quickly extinguishes enemies. The Shortstop uses the "rapid fire weapon" crit roll system because in-game it's coded as a modified pistol, not scattergun, since it was originally supposed to be a secondary weapon for Scout.
I know I'm late, and probably someone said this already, but the reason the Dragon's Fury deals no random crits is because it already deals 3 times more damage to burning players (So it deals the equivalent of crit damage on burning players). For some reason, Valve multiplied the damage dealt rather than give it crits. But that also means that pairing it with the kritzkrieg or any other form of guaranteed crits deal 225 damage per hit on burning players (if its a perfect hit), which would atomize everything but a Heavy in one shot (Reminder, the fireball goes through players, so imagine one-shotting half of the enemy team around the payload at random?)
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