That's really great advice about writing mentally rather than at an instrument - it's so easy to get into the habit of fishing for notes at the piano and not looking for the bigger picture. On the other hand, though, I've found that just getting my hands on an instrument that I intend to write for to be helpful for getting a feel of what works well on that instrument, no matter how limited my skills on it, and often the tactile connection with it provokes some ideas, anway.
Thank you for a lucid distillation of your compositional practice. I read and write a great deal of poetry, and I find much of what you describe here resonates with the kind of painstaking, yet rewarding, practice of writing verse. While I do not disdain the contemporary taste for poetry that celebrates the immediacy of composition and a free form (or the arbitrary limitation approach you mentioned with reference to Perec's La Disparation), I find what you describe in this video far more representative of the composition of more structured genres. I like especially your discussion of the prospective element of composition; it always surprises me how complex layers of imposed structure are resolved in new and interesting ways once one starts writing - and it becomes almost a eureka moment when I work out that a dactyl or spondee, or a particular metrical length will simply not work given the conditions established. Anyways, sorry to carry on here, I meant only to thank you for sharing with such detail!
Thanks for your comment. What interests me the most is an interaction between discipline and informality. Difficult to master, but that's where true richness lies.
I was wondering if you have any method to develop your inner ear? Maybe it could be an idea for a video :) Of course i understand that there is no standard way of doing this and that it takes years to develop. Great video by the way!
he mentions in another video taking the original Lutheran chorale melodies that Bach harmonized over in his passions and use them to develop your own and compare with what Bach ended up. He suggests focusing on melody trajectory and voice leading in this experiment and I would imagine memorizing that the original melodies is key to developing a ear for "hearing" the harmonies sans instrument. He mentions doing 1000s of these btw as well as saying in this video it can take a few years to develop sufficiently
Good to hear from you. I am obsessed with painting! I lived with Madrid for a year a while back, and spent most of my time talking with painters. I find them much more relaxed than composers :)
Interesting analysis Samuel! The process of compositing without an instrument (system of reference) seems to rely on auditory memories, techniques, methods, predetermined aesthetic/political intent of the work. Both memories and methods are in the realm of the already known and experienced. An alternative approach involves a desire to explore the unknown/unheard, and this requires working with instrumentation and/or abstract cognitive ideas. I remember a saying in jazz: ‘if you can’t hear it, you can’t play it’ and I suppose the reverse is also relevant: if you haven’t played it (external audiation, technique, craft), you can’t hear it (internal audiation). New approaches need to be discovered, and discovery requires exploration. It would be fascinating to hear your perspective of the composition process through an analysis of the distinctive qualities/approaches associated with intuitive vs cognitive creation. Great work as always!
I was looking for a video like this because it just seems writing music is so painstakingly, to think that early composers had to write note for note somehow knowing which ones would go together in which pattern. How it wouldn't take years to compose a single symphony is beyond me. At least these days you can enter notes on a computer and synthesize various instruments.
So interesting! Because me as composer couldn't care less about instrumentation when catching ideas for new pieces. My intentions are in fact quite opposite. I want my ideas to be fitting the larges number of instruments as possible, so it can be easily arranged for different groups of musicians.
I write the same way!! I knew I wasn't alone! I began to do this from the age of 14. Just recored a string quartet that I wrote all the pieces just stream on consciousness. Didn't even listen to them until they were complete. I just posted the 1st movement on my youtube channel. Someone said "wow! That must have been a lot of work!" I thought well... No.. Not at all. Not writing the work. That happened in a few days. The hard part is entering the notes into Finale. Hiring the players. Booking the studio time. Thats the hard part! Very much enjoying your channel! thanks --Tyler Vrooman
Hi! I was wondering if you could maybe share some experiences on how your evolution from writing at an instrument to writing at your desk went. Did you actively train it? Could you perhaps also share some exercises on how to train this? Thanks a lot! Really interesting channel!
the cool thing about "composition instruction" is that anyone who made this explanatory video, if they were to, the method would be COMPLETELY different for each of us. we all have our rituals I've noticed, food, drugs, drink, meditation, etc. ad infinitum... creation is so interesting because its impossible to describe it. thanks, as always. this was super interesting.
The problem with composition instruction, as I see it, is that nobody can explain precisely what a composition _is._ Why does Ravel's Bolero succeed compositionally, and by the same token, Webern's Sechs Bagatellen succeed compositionally? Obviously, there's an element of the materials themselves suggesting the form, and- as Samuel alludes- the duration, but these suggestions seem to operate in the realm of intuition rather than theory. As a self-taught composer, these are all very idle musings to me, but I would imagine the best a composition teacher could provide to a student is a sort of toolbox of received wisdom to aid them in their own compositional efforts.
Some aspects of composition revolve around fundamental polarities that seem to transcend matters of style. These things can be discussed with any student. There are some technical considerations that are largely context-dependent, and that must be examined on a case-by-case basis. But a good teacher casting a sufficiently wide net should not have too much of a problem doing this. So, teaching composition is difficult, but by no means impossible.
What is your *goal* while you compose? What do you aim at? Do you want to produce a certain experience in the listener? Do you want to produce a certain emotion in yourself? How do you decide that a change is an improvement or that something is *done*?
Nick Redmark Thanks for your questions. Here is a recent interview in which I discuss the creative process: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-tSl9bfy4iRE.html
Very lucid explanation indeed! I respect your structured approach to composition. You put great amounts of forethought into your compositions it seems. That would challenge me, because I am anxious to see fruition from any small idea that is catchy. When I find that one little guitar riff, or that one melody and lyric, I try to shoehorn everything around it. The initial idea grows stale by the time I’ve developed other components of the piece. You emphasize a thoughtful approach to composition that helps me rethink the way I approach songwriting. Thank you for your explications of classical music. When listening to a piece I enjoy, I ask myself “What the hell makes this enjoyable! It’s just notes after each other-why does it not seem as arbitrary!” Your theoretical analysis provides reason as to why most of the time this is not be the case.
Great virtue in not having the exact sounds in front of you. Because there inevitably will be periods of adjustment and in those adjustments come potential fresh directions..... However I consider myself a composer even though I improvise everything I do sometimes with the aid of a graphic score, occasionally to expand the repertoire! It's such a fascinating process. Endeavouring to precisely hone a piece as it unfolds on the piano, recording it and seeing if the piece is up to scratch.
Great video. I've always been curious about this myself. It's actually not completely divorced from the methods your average rock artist uses. I guess the biggest difference is that the spontaneity of rock music makes going right from idea to execution more realistic. One thing I found interesting is when you describe developing the ability to basically hear what you're writing in your head. Something I know, from years of writing songs with other musicians and playing in bands, is that anyone who takes what they do seriously can easily play by ear or plan out a riff in their head then translate it to an instrument. That comment does no justice to how mind-blowing I found this. Can't wait to hear your breakdown of "Leck mich im Arsch" haha. Cheers!
Good to hear from you. One of the things I like about popular forms of music is that the conception and the execution are sometimes virtually the same thing, giving it a great immediacy. My way of working is obviously extremely slow, and not particularly oriented toward the efficient production of a finished work. Regarding the Mozart analysis.. you may have to wait a while for that one :)
Man, I couldn't be happier about finding your stuff. I really admire your work and the fact that you are, also, a youtuber, and do this incredibly interesting videos. I'd like to add spanish subtitles to them, 'cos I want to show them to people here in Argentina. Would that be possible? Cheers!
I just turned the option on, so now anyone can contribute subtitles to my videos. Here's the link: ru-vid.com_cs_panel?tab=2&c=UCI_dcH8Zr2UqNT1EqvMNgTg
Hi ... people can also get to see an automatically generated translation of the spoken words as displayed text using Settings -> Subtitles - > Auto-translate -> PIck the language you want to see in the closed captions @@samuel_andreyev BTW
Hi there. I'm a guitarist and write my own songs, riffs and solos etc. Most , if not all, my music comes from me noodling on the guitar, playing chord progressions or improvised licks on the spot, like alot of guitarists. Is this video suggesting that the classical composers did a similar thing, rather than just have their ideas in their head and then write them down on manuscript?
Samuel Andreyev Hey Sam, I am 16 and I’ve been writing music for around 3 years. And I was wondering if there was certain things you did when you where beginning. I usually write in my excess time at school but half the time the music that I am writing is obscure to me. Until I play it at home, I never really have a clear idea what it sounds like. If you could maybe shed some light on improving this visualization skill it would be much appreciated. And do you recall certain songs for intervals like Amazing Grace for the Perfect 4th? Anyways great vids they help tremendously.
Thanks for your message. You might consider doing some ear training. There are many free resources online for this. A good one is musictheory.net. You could also buy some books on developing your ear, such as the Samuel Adler sight singing book, or Modus Novus by Lars Edlund. Good luck.
I'd be interested to know your thoughts on composition competitions. When I was in music school I was encouraged to enter as many as I could. But most of them ended up costing a lot of money for the entry fees, printing, and shipping costs without any benefit. I'd either be informed that my piece wasn't selected or I would not hear back at all from the competition. Is it worth it to continue to enter into those contests?
BASSOONISTFROMHELL In my experience, most of them are corrupt and a waste of time and money for composers. They are often structured so that the organisers benefit the most -- they can solicit the creation of new repertoire, basically for free or even at profit. A few are worthwhile, but you need to have multiple reasons to want to write the piece, because statistically, thx odds of winning are overwhelmingly unfavorable. My advice is to avoid by default, unless there are compelling reasons to enter a submission.
@@samuel_andreyev very honest answer, my thoughts exactly. I feel the same way sometimes about compositional masterclasses and the like, it is often the one who gives them who benefits from them, but less the students.
Songwriter here. I'm always having trouble with having too many ideas and possible directions to go. How would you go about limiting the choices? This is a serious issue for me and leads to procrastination and taking too long to finish writing a song.
@@samuel_andreyev Thanks for your advice! I get the idea and will def try it out but the music I write is more in the progressive/art rock direction and I like it when music has unusual form/development and has an impressionistic or surreal feel to it.
Would you have different advice for someone that's trying to composer electronic music? Composing for instruments seems pretty straightforward, but I'm not sure how to make a good electronic music piece with synthesizers and samplers
Hi, thanks for the question, but it's hard to answer without knowing any specifics about what you are doing. The world of electronic music is extremely diverse and varied, and there are many diverging practices within it.
Hi. I have a question - do you think that by imposing limitations or allowing for something to happen one indulges in binary thinking patterns and music, being the most abstract of all arts actually allows for complete experimentation in that regard - trying out different thinking patterns other than the ones that could be said to represent number 2?
Could you recommend some resources for developing an "inner ear"? Are there any books or software that you've found useful for ear training (particularly within one's imagination)?
This is a very good question. I didn't really have a method besides reading a lot of scores, doing a lot of sight reading at the piano and persistent hard work. My sense for instrumental timbre came out of years and years of working closely with many performers. However, there are a number of websites offering tools that could possibly help the process -- just google 'online ear training'.
Hello, I was wondering about one thing: doesn’t the fact that you know when starting a new piece that you will probably revise or rewrite it later block you, it make you too self critical in the moment of composing, or do you tend to ignore this and leave the critique for when you have finished?
It doesn't block me. I don't set out expecting that I will have to re-write the piece; I always begin with the (vain?) hope that I might get it right the first time (which does happen, increasingly). Generally, I enjoy the process. It's quite fulfilling to improve something.
Can I ask why you use graph paper as well as stave paper? Is it for a specific reason or is it just because you only had a certain kind of paper to hand at the time?
Fermín LS Hi, It's a 22-minute quartet for flute, clarinet, percussion and cello called Strasbourg Quartet. There is no commercial recording yet, but the piece is being recorded next June for an upcoming CD on Kairos Records (Vienna).