Quick Tip: .38 Super vs 9mm - What's the Difference? 

We Mexicans are trying to keep 38super alive. Lol

9x19 is designated a "military" caliber in places like Mexico, so you won't have a choice, depending where you live. Still, 38 super is a solid round.

I’m a proud .38 Super Cultist.

Regarding the point at 01:06, that law enforcement was looking for something with better penetration _in an automatic,_ and the .38ACP was transformed into the .38 Super (by loading a higher powder charge into the same case), _and the .357 was available to provide more penetration in revolvers,_ is not _quite_ right. The .38 Super predated the .357 Magnum by about five years, and in fact the .357 was developed in response to the .38 Super. Both tests, and use by law enforcement showed that the .38 Super would indeed penetrate some of the early body armor used in that period, as well as steel car bodies, that neither the .45ACP nor the .38 Special would reliably penetrate. Smith & Wesson didn't want to cede an important part of the market to Colt and their Super .38 (in marketing literature at the time, the Super often came before the .38), so they first introduced the .38-44 revolver, which was their big N frame chambered for .38 Special, to allow people to use extremely hot .38 hand loaded ammo, or factory ammo loaded hot and labelled as .38-44 ammo, and then later, in 1935, the .357 magnum. The introduction of the .357 was probably one of two major reasons that the .38 Super never became all that popular as a cartridge. For a few years after its introduction in 1929, the .38 Super was the only game in town if you wanted a handgun with that greater penetration (except for the broomhandle Mauser, which wasn't exactly a strong contender for use by US law enforcement), but it was a semi-auto in an era when law enforcement _overwhelmingly_ preferred revolvers. Then along came the .38-44, and then .357 Magnum, and now law enforcement could have the superior penetration in the type of handgun they almost always preferred. The second reason was that the .38 Super developed a reputation as being a rather inaccurate cartridge, which was a problem that wasn't solved until the 1980s, when Colt changed from headspacing on the rim (it's a semi-rimmed cartridge) to headspacing on the case mouth like virtually every other automatic pistol cartridge. That cured the accuracy problems in time for the cartridge's second wave of popularity, with competition shooters, but the problem had persisted up until then, and probably had done much to keep it from catching on with law enforcement once revolvers powerful enough to meet their needs were available.

I reload all calibers and consider the .38 Super a stout cartridge. I only use 130 Grain bullets because I believe that the cartridge was originally designed with that bullet and that the ogive is unique. The .38 Super was fitted in the 1911 and that a man cannot own enough 1911's so thumbs up on the .38 Super!

To quote Stephen Hunter, the Super .38 “Has personality, pizzazz and vividness.” And according to the original ads by Colt, “It’s a real He-man gun!” What’s not to love about it?

Someone once told me the most accurate handgun they had ever shot was a 1911 in .38 Super. It is one of the few cartridges I do not have that is on my to buy list. I recently acquired a quality .38 Super barrel for a 1911 that I plan to build.

My favorite edc back in the day was a Colt Combat Commander in 38 Super. Great cartridges for as I'm concerned. Accurate and easy to control.

I shot 38 super auto in competition for a few years. Shoots very flat and I believed had lower recoil than 45 ACP. But I competed with a lot more 45 ACP because reloading was cheaper and I did not have dies for 38 super. Back when tire stores would give away lead wheel weights we could cast our own.

I’m actually picking up my 38 Super today, thought it was cool that you guys came out with this video the same day

The performance should be much better with the Super, but the ammo companies have loaded down their products because they're afraid some dufus will shoot it in an older 38 Colt Auto gun. By handloading, the Super can easily match .357 Mag performance. That can't be done with a 9mm, safely.

As stated by some already, the 38 Super had/has a market space in Mexico due to its classification as a non-military cartridge. Mexican Citizens may own non military handgun calibers for self defense. .380 ACP and .38 Super are popular in Mexico for that reason. Steve and Caleb are a great team on You Tube! Keep it up!

Back in the 70's and early 80's My dad liked the 38 super for bowling pin competition. He passed way back in 1986. He was an avid fan of the 38 super. He's the on that got me interested in reloading.

Comparing the 9mm to the 38 Super is like comparing a Camaro to a Ferrari. Both are cool, but the 38 Super is much higher performance and cooler.

A properly loaded 38 super is significantly more powerful than a 9mm+P. Check the reloading manuals.

The difference in 9mm vs 38 super is the same difference that's between 38 special and 357 magnum....1/8" in cartridge length which allows for more powder and 150 fps more velocity with same weight bullet. And just like the 38 special/357 magnum the 9mm and 38 super both use the same bullet when being reloaded even though some people think you have to use .356 for 38 super (that's BS) and those of us who have shot hundreds of thousands of rounds down the pipe of double stack 1911/2011 racegun in competition can tell you it's an accurate and reliable round. PERIOD.

38 Super, at least in my pistol, is less sensitive about overall length than are many 9mm pistols. 38 Super also has the ability to be loaded to 357 magnum pressures whereas the 9mm is not made for that. 38 Super is very versatile. Also, cool kids shoot supers.

One key factor is that the 38 Super and 9x23 Winchester are both the same overall length as 45 ACP, making them better suited for reliability in a 1911 platform compared to the shorter 9mm Luger. The magazines and breech are the right size for those cartridges. I’m not saying you can’t make 9mm Luger work in a 1911 - I have one - but the longer cartridges just make more sense. Another thing Steve doesn’t mention is that both 38 Super and 9x23 Winchester allow more rounds compared to 45 ACP in a given magazine length. Typically the increase is 2 cartridges. A 1911 CCO (small Officers frame with 4-4.25” barrel) makes a fine weapon for concealed carry and 8 rounds in the magazine isn’t bad.

Good coverage of the aspects of interest. Good advice also.

The .38 Super is the one that doesn't bounce off tin cans.

Awesome I have been waiting on the this video for years!!!!

Very interesting. I love these little informative videos.

When I showed my buddy what kind of penetration you can get with modern loads with the 38.super he now wants a 38.super plus I love my 70 year old colt 1911 chambered in 38 super

I loved shooting 38 supercomp in uspsa matches with my open gun. i didn't love losing my brass. $$! shooting Major with that 38 super/supercomp was awesome.

I sold my .38 super and live in the 10mm world now.

My favorite oddball caliber is .41 magnum. Hard to find, but nice to shoot.

I accidentally bought .38 Super ammo thinking it would work for my .38 Special revolver, so I ended up buying the Rock Island .38 Super 1911 model and I love it!

38 super was designed to punch through car doors

I love both, but the 38 super is my favorite. The only thing that holds it back is factory ammunition choices. A few manufacturers out there load the Barnes solid copper hollowpoints in the 38 super and that turns it into one of the best choices available.

From a reloader’s perspective, I prefer the .38 super, but I do still like 9mm too. Similar components, and yes the .38 super is quite a bit more powerful if you want it to be. It’ll perform with the 357 Sig if you’re so inclined. I think it really suffers from underperforming factory ammunition. If you have a decent supply of .38 super brass, and gather it up after shooting, like a lot of reloaders do, it’s about the same cost per shot as 9mm, but more versatile. You can reload and shoot a lot of .38 super for what people are spending on factory 9mm ammunition these days. 9mm isn’t as cool as it used to be in that regard.

There is a big difference between these 2 rounds. The 38 super will do over 1300fps with a 130 gr bullet. And the 357 was not available in the late 1920s. I’ve been shooting 38 super for more than 50 years. In car penetration test the 130 gr 38 super will beat the 158 gr 357 mag. And you will never get a 9mm with a 124gr bullet to 1300 fps and keep the gun together for any length of time.

I sho t the 1911 in 45 ACP when I was in the Navy. Loved the feel of the gun in my hand but hated the recoil. Recently bought a 1911 in 38 Super in spite of the ammo costs and availability issues.

Both calibers were designed in an age every brand of firearms had its own caliber. It was the same time that 9mm Bergamann, 9mm Steyer, 9mm Browning Long, etc were design. There were not standaritation of calibers, every brand of pistol had its own 9mm or 38 caliber.

In my experience of shooting 9mm, 45 cal and 38 super many other ammo, the 38 super rips metal almost apart where 45 makes a hole.

Bite sized facts are what makes this channel great. 👍

My dad (in Guatemala) was a big fun of the Colt 38 Super! I have a handful of 9mm pistols but not a 38 Super! I want one for the memories of my dad.

Very insightful. We have heard the 45 vs 9mm debate for years. The old 45 was the way to go when your adversary was half naked with a spear. Blunt force stopped the fight. But in body armor, behind a car door then penetration was the deciding factor. The 9mm we have today is not the same 9mm of 1901. It too has evolved like the 38 colt into 38 super. A bit more zip and much more effective bullets.

I carry a 38 Super. The thing with 38 Super is that most factory ammo leave a lot on the table. If you handload, there is a lot of additional performance that you can get that you won't typically find in a factory load. For example, my carry load is a 124 gr hp at 1325 fps. Also, once you do make the commitment to handload, you can shoot the 38 Super for about the same cost as the 9mm. The only downside there is you do try to recover all your 38 Super brass or as much of it as you can.

Some say it won't but I had a .38 super in a llama made like a 1911, it shot 9mm lugers all day long, no problem... ...

My 38super 1911 is the only pistol I can get my dad to shoot love the cartridge and pistol

357 Magnum is to 38 SPL in the same way 38 Super is to 9mm. 38 Super is just a little bit more powerful than 9mm even if you push them both to extremes.

Some people commenting on here are saying the 38 Super is ''waaay superior'', to 9mm. It isn't. Any cartridge can be loaded to extremes. Off the shelf stuff, which is what 99% of us shoot, will only be a hundred or so feet apart in velocity. The 38 Super cartridge is slightly more powerful than the nine.

Great show you boys put on I really appreciate it, but I have to go along with some of the other reloaders. I've been doing this for many decades and so I can talk from experience 9 mm in world war II was a powerhouse, different powder, different guns, very good cartridge, we don't have those components today. The 9 mm of today is a squirt gun. 38 super is basically a 357 semi-automatic and Just smokes hell out of everything else. Enough said. Thank you again this is my opinion.

Thanks for another interesting video. I also think that if someone is looking at the 1911 platform but interested in something more similar to .357 mag, the 10mm fits the bill a little better. But .38 super is still a really neat cartridge.

Wish there were more 38 Super (and 9x23) handgun options.

Most factory .38 super us loaded light in deference of the old double link Colts. The .38 is more capable and more comparable to .357 Sig in full power loadings. Also the Super runs heavy projectiles mutch better

Love the 38 Super I recently built a Commander size gun in 38 super Caspian slide and frame bar-sto barrel, when I was done almost didn't want to give it to the customer

In Mexico the colt 38 auto was iconic during the revolution a lot of them were sold there, I believe because it was flatter shooting than the .45 was the reason that people preferred it, to this day with mexican peoples it has somewhat of a cult status. They are even mentioned in traditional songs.

I carry a Llama Extra in .38 super. Love that gun and it's unique.

I loaded 140 gr with a gas check Bach in the olden days. I cast my own works great and gun has served me over 50 years. I put Bomar sights on the gun and have replaced the firing pin 40 yrs ago. Trigger is 2.5-3 lbs.I welded a bead 3/8” back from muzzle polished the inside of the bushing then turned bead down till it fits snuggly no rattle. Crimped the slide on the frame used rubbing compound to fit the slide and frame. Gun shoots under 1.5” at 25 yards when using a rest..

I have both, 9mm is more practical but the 38 super is more fun and appreciated a tad more

The big differences are simple. 0.357" vs 0.355" diameter bullets. The 38 Super will have a 200 ft/sec speed advantage over the 9 mm if using the same bullets. I personally like the 158 grain .357" XTP bullets for 38 Super loads. The only negative of the 38 Super that I can see is that it has a small rim. This is easy to fix though by using 38 Super Auto Comp brass from Starline. I would seriously love to watch a video of someone try an get a 9 mm to out perform the 38 Super with a 160 grain 0.355" bullet. You could probably only safely do this with a CMMG Banshee 9 mm. I am convinced that the 38 Super became an obscure cartridge only because the US Army did not adopt it. The 38 Super is a native cartridge to the 1911.

Would have loved to hear you throw the .357 Sig in there since it spanks 9mm and .38 Super and comes it a 9mm sized platform.

My 38 Super is in my seasonal rotation. Rock Island Armory compact 45 (3 inch barrel)for the summer because it's easiest to conceal, Kimber Compact Stainless 40 (4 inch barrel) for fall and spring, and my Colt Government Model 38 Super for in the winter. It seems like it shoots better the hotter I load it. I've had a couple over the years and they each seemed a bit different. My first one didn't stay accurate above ~1275 fps. My current one I haven't seen a loss in accuracy regardless of how hot it's loaded. Seems like the newer ones like hotter ammo. I have a 460 Rowland kit I plan on putting in my full size Kimber for a woods gun.

Love the content!!!!

Definitely a 38 super if I'm looking for a 1911 platform competition and or Target gun. Especially with handloads. However if I was going to do that I would look into the 357 sig first again you've got a high pressure fast shooting around roughly the same way projectiles and your shooting much faster and flatter

Honestly, I don't think the .38 Super's velocity edge makes much difference in comparison to the 9s, but I love my .38 Super and the accuracy is incredible.

Great video. Thank you. Until recently I had no knowledge of the .38 super. My favorite pistol is the 1911 in 45acp and I own a few of them. I don’t particularly like the 9mm but my edc is a Springfield Hellcat in 9 mm because it’s practical to carry. But now I’m about to purchase another 1911 , this time a Colt , and decided I want it in .38 Super. I am very excited about the .38 Super! Wow , how sweet would it be to be able to get an Hellcat in .38 Super . I often wonder why people just follow trends and ignore fascinating possibilities. My favorite rimfire is another example. The 17M2 . An excellent top notch rimfire that just gets ignored . Oh well…I know I’m going to love my new Colt competition series 70 1911 stainless in the ultra cool .38 Super !

Ok, I should probably keep this to myself, but not many guys will read this! During the worst of the ammo drought over the past couple of years, at times I couldn’t find 9x19 or .38 Special. But, I was always able to find .38 Super on line somewhere, and the prices for it remained about the same as in “normal times”. It’s my supplemental 9mm for ammo shortages. Also ,in a 1911 it ‘s just pure fun at the range. My Dan Wesson .38 Super is amazingly accurate as well. One of my favorite calibers.

Just to throw a monkey wrench, I am a 45 Super fan. A upgrade from 45 Auto. Similar history, albeit much more recent than the 38 Super growth from the 38 Auto. Nice video.

I love .38 Super but you can get 9mm anywhere . Way more choices in 9mm unless you want to reload . It`s a shame .38 Super did not take off like 9mm . I love the 1911 frame in .38 Super . There were some guys that were loading some real hot rounds in .38 Super that extra muzzle energy of 100 plus ft. lbs. .38 Super gives you over 500 foot pounds of muzzle energy , .45 ACP gives about 350 foot pounds and 9mm gives 250 foot pounds .

.38 super in my Tanfoglio Steel Witness Compact... JUST RIGHT!

I’ve never tried it, but it seems like an interesting cartridge. It’d be cool if Sig came up with some parts to convert a P365 to shoot 38 Super, have the best of both worlds without buying a new gun.

Steve, I too am a .38 super carrier and yes, I absolutely love the cartridge; I have it paired up with a 70 series Colt Combat Commander (4 inch Bbl. & steel frame version) that I have souped up a bit. I put the Wilson Combat guide rod into it. The long guide rod with the extra spring milled into the guide rod, which makes it a flatter shooting pistol with way less muzzle flip. At least in my mind it shoots better. I also have the Colt Pocket Hammer of 1904 which takes the .38 auto/.38 acp round. I do not know why but it is a laser beam in my hand; at least out to 10 yards. It is almost like I could not miss even if I wanted to. As long as I am real, real careful about which pistol gets which cartridge, I have more fun with these two pistols than just about any of the pistols I own. I lean more to the older military style auto pistols from 1904/05 (the 1905 Mannlicher in 7.65 Mannlicher, the 1904 Colt Pocket Hammer in .38 auto, and a pair of 1914 Steyr Hammers with replacement Bbls to fire 9mm Luger, 9mm Steyr, 9 x 21 IMI and .30 Luger){Yes, Steyr still makes barrels to fit this pistol, they call it their "Classic" pistol and they produce barrels in 4 calibers for it and the barrels come in 5 inch as well as 6 inch versions, with two rifling profiles. One profile for 'ball' ammo and a second profile for cast lead projectiles} up to the mid 1950's as they just seem to have more character than the modern pistols or revolvers that I own.

I definitely agree 9mm more practical for new gun owners. In relation to 38 super….Same can be said for .357 Sig. However, I have a LW change out barrel for Glock .40 which makes the sig more practical for me. As a side note, I switched back .40 during pandemic as 9mm became scarce

After using a Glock 17 9mm Pb for 20 years, qot a steel Tangfoglio P23 in 38 Super and have no regrets, it has been in my side also for 20 years. Always used 125 gr Silvertips in both, and the 38 Super is more accurate, lighter recoiling. Weight is not a issue with a propper leather OWB holster. For backup or suumer days a 38 Special 5 shot steel revolver is my option.

Nice video

Wouldn't mind hearing your opinion on the 357 sig

Tanfoglio makes CZ 75 style pistols chambered in 38 super. You can get 21 rounds in an extended magazine with a ton of muzzle energy in each round. More than 9mm can produce. Factory ammo is tuned down but there's space in the cartridge itself to get way more power if you load it right.

38 super is an awesome cartridge, I wish it were more precedent!

I have both 9mm and .38 Super and I prefer the .38 Super, but, I am also a handloader and load my .38 Supers hot.

Love my colt 38 super!

Though I don't own a "super" the ctg has always intrigued me, I like the more obscure but worthy ctgs, such as the super, the 357 sig, the various 32 magnum pistol rounds... I think that the 9mm is over rated, because all the bullet advancements can also be applied to the other rounds. 9 has won out because of magazine capacity specifically double stack mags and our obsession with more. If we were in the single stack days, which would win out? My guess is those more powerful ctgs would win over the "wonder 9" which is adequate for self defense, but on the lower end compared to other rounds, if you were limited to single stack.

Add to this mix the 357 (really a .355 diameter round) Sig, which may provided (for certain projectile weights) even greater muzzle velocity than does the .38 Super.

I have always been a fan of the 38 Super, right now I have a Rock Island 1911 38 Super I have had for sometime now. I load for mine so I don't have to pay the high cost for factory and I can load up or down depending what I want at the time. I fitted a Rock Island 9mm barrel in mine, uses the same magazines, Rock Island marks some of their mags for 9mm/38 Super, but even my Metalform 38 Super mags run 9mm flawlessly. It's a great cartridge but then so is the 9mm.

My absolute favorite pistol Colt Combat Commander in steel frame chambered in .38 Super. You can't go wrong with this combination!😏

Good video, none of the caliber hyperbole so often found. One important note, a very slight "advantage" of the .38 Super is that firearms that shoot the .38 Super were designed from the get-go to handle those pressures, 130gr (ish) at 1215fps or slightly higher. Not every 9mm handgun (i.e. budget or older) was meant to or just can't reliably handle a steady diet of +P loads. Still, 9MM is much less expensive, more available, and if you're satisfied with adequate it's your caliber. One note, .357 Sig ammo is generally also less expensive and more available than .38 Super. Though a pain to reload.

Thanks

a composite rimless case with a steel head like the 277 sig furry in 38 super that can be loaded around 45k to 50k psi would be an awesome round. The 9x23 operated at 55k psi and pushed a 125gr bullet at 15000fps from a 4 inch barrel. Im mostly interested in schp for defense but they are really long so something that i can load up to 10mm length would make up for the velocity lost in these bullets while offering 9mm recoil. In my opinion schp are the best and most consistent bullet type for handguns but their flaw is that they can be pushed as hard.

Love both my 9 and 38, everyday carry a shield plus but have a Ria m1911 38 super in polished nickel, custom grips and a few gold, nickel and rose 15 rd extended mags, definetley a project pistol then anything.

I’ve got a Thompson Ordinance 4 Star General 38 Super good gun very accurate been with me for a while

124 @ 1375 to 1425 and 147s at 1200 is why I prefer super. I get no capacity difference and can reload the two for the same cost while getting a performance increase in Super over 9mm in the same gun. It’s also a classy nostalgic cartridge with a cool history. In comparable sized guns I can get 357 magnum performance in a 1911 with 10+1 with faster reloads.

THANKS

38super is a sweetheart. I have had some problems here and there with extraction on accounts of the semi rim. Some manufacturers I think are just using 9mm extractors in their 38s and it leads to these kinds of issues. Did some handloads with some supercomp and didnt have any better results with extraction, which was a head scratcher. Did some tuning and nada. Put it away in the safe for a couple years, took it out and it ran every mag without a problem with factory ammo 😑

I have factory loads in 38 Super that run about 540 FTLBS . It is a superior caliber to the 9 mm. I have read that many shoot 9x23 Winchesters through their Supers as well, as the cartridge was designed for such. The 38 Super is really a like a 9 MM magnum. If they renamed it that, it would sell like hot cakes. The 1911 and 38 super is a perfect combination. My daughters, from 11 to 15, liked shooting it the most of all of my pistols. I have some very nice 9s due to cost, availability., model offerings, and so forth, but the cartridge cannot really compare to a 38 Super loaded to its full potential. The 9 was around when Colt brought out the Super. It’s not really even in the same league. The current +P+ 9 mm seeks to perform like a caliber it isn’t. The Super takes these power levels with aplomb. I carried a BHP for many years, and took much grief from many, as back then, a real caliber, had to start with a 4…., but I loved that pistol, and of course, they were wrong, as most of those same critics, gun writers included, now carry 9s. The 9 is indeed the most practical for most self defense applications, but it lacks the tremendous history, being carried by both mobsters and FBI agents during that interesting and tumultuous era in American history. And, it also lacks the potential. If they wanted to introduce a caliber that would sell, they should have just reintroduced the 38 Super and called it the 9 mm Super Magnum instead of the 30 Super. The 38 Super will come back, because it is a wonderful combination of power. Performance. and shoot ability. Thanks for the video.

People tend to forget that the .38 Super is but a return to the original .38ACP load. The original .38ACP was quite hot, and was only loaded down because the Colt 1900 and 1902 kept breaking their locking lugs and links. The 1911 was much stronger and thus can handle the original hot .38ACP wrong. The gun itself was named the Super .38 Automatic. The .38Super cartridge name didn’t even come about until the early 1970s when SAAMI decided to make a true separation between the .38ACP and ..38Super.

i bought a .38 Super slide/barrel/mags for my (originally) 10 mm Witness, because I've wanted a .38 Super for forty years. I already had the large grip (for 10 mm and .45 ACP), and the .38 Super gets more rounds in the double stack magazine. I've been meaning to get a 9 mm barrel as well -- that would let me shoot .45, 10 mm, .40 S&W (with just a barrel change), .38 Super, and 9 mm (another barrel-only change -- my gun, at least, happily feeds the shorter .40 round from the 10 mm magazine, so ought to do the same for 9 mm), all on the same frame. That would let me practice with the cheaper, easier to find 9 mm ammo, and keep .38 Super in the mags when I'm not at the range -- just as I can practice with .40, and load up full power 10 mm for "just in case." Now if I could only get a .357 Sig barrel to fit. Maybe I need to get a reamer and a spare .38 Super barrel...

It be nice if 357sig would gain more popular! IMO great performance!

38Super is a flat shooting speedster. I’m surprised more serious shooters are basically unaware of it.

One of the best shooting hand guns as far as accuracy goes that I have ever fired was a Llama 1911 in .38super. I tried to trade my Springfield 1911 .45acp and the man said no way.

I may be acquiring a Kimber target 2 in 38 super shortly. I am new to the 38 super cartridge. Are there cartridges that may be shot in the 38 super chamber safely? I hope this is not a foolish question. thanks

Long live the 38 Super and tha 1911 platform ideal for this caliber!! Very accurate and flat shooting up to 75yds,deadly on varmints!!

.38 super seems pretty popular, or at least common, in the southwest/ border states. Where I live in the upper midwest if you want it you'll probably have to order it.

The 38 Super rules!

I understand that in certain South American countries military ammo was banned (9mm, 45 ACP, etc.) for civilians, so the 38 Super was allowed.

.38 Super is sexier. And it's got some cool Americana history to it.

I still like 40 cal if you look in the Nosler manual with a 135 grain projectile it is hard to beat. Just my opinion.

So the 38 super is a longer 9mm+p But can you shoot the 9mm out of a 38 super chamber?

I am making my homework before I buy the actual gun, I am a fan for 1911 pistols, am looking to get the Wilson Combat CQB Elite in 9mm or .38 super. I own the Beretta 92G Centurion Tactical, very fun to shoot!

I love the super. The 9mm is not bad, but its one of those cartridges that is like a Kardashian, its famous for being famous. The 9mm is a good cartridge, but why? It took decades turning into a century of constant development to make it what it is today. No better example is the FBI. They had the 9mm, found it wanting, so they developed the 10mm only to find it too much for their officers, so they then created the 10mm short, the .40 S&W. That was better than the 9mm, but still a lot for some of the officers to learn on. So, the 9mm was then developed up to do better in the FBI test and it has once again found favor with the FBI because current development has made it perform within the FBI parameters. It wasn't inherently a great cartridge. It was a cartridge that was popular (famous) because it was popular (famous) around the world, in Europe, and standardized by Nato. Cartridges such as the .38 Super were used precisely because they worked well as designed. And I am a huge 1911 guy, so a .45 and a .38 super are just natural.