Addenda: 1) Instead of using a movement sensor to prevent dupes from getting stuck. You can just make the pneumatic door on the right into a one-way exit. (Thanks MathgeekBurch on Reddit) 2) When I talk about how many dupes can be fed I'm also assuming that you cook the meat into BBQ.
Shouldn't you also account for the cooking time in your efficiency calculation? Normally it wouldn't matter but with numbers this good it might be significant.
@@DavidGuild I think of cooking as something that has to be done anyway no matter where you get ingredients. You are right that it's good to remember that it's important but I felt like it wasn't intrinsic to shove voles.
I love the way lots of players immediately comment to place a miner on the roof before watching one more minute into the video 😂. Great tutorial by the way.
Oh jeez, I know! But they aren't wrong, it's a good plan and having three of them is a bit cumbersome. You just have to figure out a different way to keep it cool. :)
@@tonyadvanced6315 Anything wrong with having a single miner outside the room that can see through a pneumatic door? Except having to cool it, which is not a problem if you have a loop for cooling the room anyways.
Excellent. So clear, informative and clever. Thank you. Side note, you could use mechanized airlocks, on a timer, under the robo miner to free them from regolith. See Brothgar very last video. (However that may kill the bugs...?)
Instead of putting grooming stations in that lower stable, fill it with unpowered incubators. Autosweepers will put eggs in them, they will incubate into baby shove voles and if the top stable lacks a critter, a duplicant will come, fetch a pup from the incubator and bring it to the stable. That action is not wrangling and does not require critter drop-off or any automation. And if there's no need to replenish a critter in the main stable, the pup will turn to adult and will free up the incubator with no duplicant labor.
Unpowered incubators is a good idea I didn't think of. But there's a small trade-off since this means that sometimes the breeder stable will have pups in it. It's not a big deal, but you lose one egg for every pup that's raised in the breeder stable.
To solve the overgrooming problem, you could try adding more stables and redirecting eggs and restricting access. Say you had 3 stables and you direct all the eggs into the first stable. After that you could redirect the eggs into a second stable. Allow the dupes to access the first stable until you calculate that a freshly laid egg will hatch and be groomed enough so it reproduce. The math is a bit weird but if you basically cut dupe access to a stable that contains voles that are groomed enough to lay an egg in their lifespan, you could save a decent amount of labor. This solution isn’t perfect at eliminating overgrooming but it approaches perfection as you add more stables. I think 3 would be good enough but adding more would reduce the variance in age of the voles which is the main source of error in this solution.
My approaches thus far are similar to this (predictably) but I've focused on moving the shove voles from one stable to the next and/or killing/abandoning them when they are too old or have been groomed the right number of times. I didn't think of restricting the access that dupes have. Score a point for yourself because it wasn't obvious (at least not to me) and now I'm eager to try it out.
I appreciate how you pronounce Shove Vole each time, and don't just say "shovel". I've never done a shove vole farm before, so I definitely think I'll try it out now. I'd like to experiment with the replenishment though - perhaps if the critter counter rather turned off the egg conveyor loader (is that even possible) when it drops below 10, then you just have to wait a few cycles for it to hatch and grow up. As soon as it hatched the other eggs would be swept up again. Then again, there would be a slight delay in producing more eggs while you wait for the pup to grow up.
That's a good idea but I couldn't make it work in a way I liked. It takes 25.5 cycles for an egg to become an adult. So if you raise one in the breeder stable then you can miss out on the chance to produce about 4 eggs. There might be a way to make it work out, like saving an egg every 10 cycles or increasing the total population by 2-3. But I'm not aware of a simple way to do it.
There is a Mod that gives you a sensor that will Auto wrangle critters that are beyond a set age. This I think is the essayist solution for keeping the breading station under control.
That self sustaining second bit sounds like something that could be fun to mess with. I wish ONI was optimized a bit better(I know they are working on it which is awesome) I would love to have a crazy big base where you are trying to figure out whether you want to have a giant shove vole farm or a regolith melter that somehow manages to take out the cooled magma and feed it to a stone hatchery or something. Seems like the game becomes a clog after a while though. Especially with critters.
@Tony Advanced @Francis John in Francis John's video he says that there is a bug that prevents your duplicants from ever getting higher than 11 ranching skill. Has that been fixed now? Would be nice if I didn't have to wait to get ranchers with +7 ranching skill.
Pay closer attention to Francis. He said the bug is they dont gain skill from grooming. You start with a dupe that has +7 in ranching. Then you give them the critter ranching 1 & 2 skill that add +2 husbandry each. That gives you 11 "ranching skill" then Francis says the incubator *when lullaby is applied* gives you a tiny amount of skill in husbandry per lullaby. It takes many cycles to lvl a dupe beyond 11 ranching but it happens.
The pronunciation of shovels is an arbitrary decision - wait... The pronunciation of shove voles is an arbour tree decision... - yep you are right, 1st way is more correct and in humour :)
My current shove vole farm is entirely made of doors with a few tiles. One regular tile to allow egg drops. 4 tiles to support 2 incubators. My sweepers auto place eggs into incubators. But I haven’t figured out how to remove the babies from the incubator automatically.
They come out on their own after a while. Besides that I think the only way to do it is for a dupe to get the baby and deliver it to an available critter dropoff.
I always hate the heating in a vacuum. Heat is dispersed through radiation, which means it can be transmitted through a vacuum. Don't know why, but it's one of the things about the physics in this game that really bothers me.
its not disperse , its trasfer , but still partialy true , some physics like gravity , would not exist in this case as well , since there is no bottom or central core that would creat spin and resulting gravity.
@@YellowGoddess Right, these asteroids wouldn't have very much of it though, the dupes would be in micro-gravity unless there's a lot of spin to generate artificial gravity in which case they'd be walking on the outside walls.
And there actually IS NOT much gravity in this game. Have you noticed how the asteroid's gravity can't hold an atmosphere? (I.E.: uncontained gasses disperse and dissappear into space rather than sticking to the planet)
@@isawadelapradera6490 and that the dupes have no falling damage, and that pumps can pump fluids up large heights, and that the rocket fuel equation doesn't contain a gravity well.
Tony when you ranch, do you harvest the meat manually or wait for their cycle limit to complete? i have tried doing some of both, but it seems waiting takes too long, and manually harvesting has a chance of critter population loss, due to chance that the critter doesn't lay an egg at the time of meat harvesting.
I don't kill shove voles automatically because it doesn't hurt production if their population gets too high. For other critters, I set up an automated way to kill some of them to keep their population under control. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-1OJd6vcyJzU.html The chance of harvesting critters before they lay an egg is a tough one to deal with, it's something I've been working on but I don't currently have an elegant way to solve it. It may be best to simply have an extra stable or two to make up the difference.
I really like the video! I learned a lot about Shove vole mechanics that I had no idea about. Wanted to comment here since I'm guessing this is where you're most likely to see and respond to comments and questions. I watched your insanely huge natural gas cooker video from a while back (great, super interesting video by the way) and after seeing a lot of your videos using volcano tamers, would using the heat from the magma to preheat Crude oil help condense things into a more normal size to make a good natural gas cooker? Have you given up on that project or are you still working on an elegant solution?
The self powered ng cooker? I think the practical way to go is to make one that isn't self-powered. It's much smaller and more manageable that way. There's no reason not to use magma for the heating. I think pre-heating the oil before it goes into heat exchange would result in very hot natural gas, but it also might make the whole build much smaller and easier. I think someone will have to try it out to know for sure.
I see you are building a bunch of robo-miners to prevent them from becoming entombed. Makes sense. My question is: Wouldn't it work better just attaching the robo-miner on the ceiling? Should that not prevent them from being entombed, as regolith falls down? If there is some mechanic actually preventing that from working as I think, I think I shall try to figure a way to turn on the robo-miners on only one-at-a-time, cyclically, so as to minimize power drawn. Power is not that much of a problem but I like trying to find designs that take as little power as possible. Edit: Ah, the reason for stacking robo-miners in the ground instead of using the ceiling was thermal regulation. I still think using the ceiling and incorporating a larger passive cooling system is a good idea but definitely a solid design.
@@splich6604 Right, of course. What I meant is that two robo-miners trying to dig simultaneously through a tile in range of the both of them would waste half of their energy consumption. However I tried it and reasonably enough two robo-miners digging the same tile take about half as much time as a single robo-miner. It is worth noting that two robo-miners will actually take way more than half the time a single one does when digging a pile of sand/regolith, as the time the material takes to fall to the ground is always the same. But since while the material is falling no miner will try to dig through it, they waste no energy. Thanks though.
Why not just a single incubator in/close to the breeding stable? Simple solutions are sometimes the best... Just wire it into the same creature sensor. Downs: - It does introduce a bit of lag before re-introducing new shovels Ups: - New shoves are introduced at age 0-5 (rather than average of 50), - Eggs transfer can be automated (almost no extra labour) - Incubators can be further tuned with a timer to deliver a fresh vole every 10 cycles (it should smooth out population inflow)
Unfed voles don't live to 100, I can't remember what age they are when they starve, but the average age of new breeders wont be 50. It can be done with incubators. I'm not keen on it. In the best case, it costs 5% of your breeder egg production and it's much worse whenever you need more than one vole at a time. The incubator can't go into the breeder stable because it will overheat, you can put it in the main stable, or make a whole extra room for it. The eggs have to be lullaby-ed. None of those things are a big problem, but when I consider doing it I'm like "what was the point of this again? To get breeders started at age 5 instead of 20?" and it doesn't feel like the simple solution, it feels like a more complicated solution that also sacrifices labor and egg production and has vulnerabilities in case of unplanned disasters.
I wasn't sure whether the Shove poop cooling would be efficient enough to keep the incubator stable. I do however agree that an extra room would be over the top. It's probably just fine to put it in the 'evolution chamber'. The idea was to put the right parameters in place, and let it run for a while. Tuning incubator with a timer (25% of time for incubation time of 10 cycles) aims to have the new shove sitting in the incubator and available for transfer as soon as the empty spot gets free. After double checking the Incubator wiki, however, it appears that lullaby'ing the egg stays in effect while the incubator is unpowered. Because of that above optimisation won't be possible - instead using the creature counter should keep the system stable, but with a 'meat gap' penalty at around 5% of output. I'll try to test this system myself and comment back with results.
instead of massproducing like that you should build a lettuce farm and turn the meat into burgers. Happy dupes ... A hand full of voles is all you want... unless of course you run 288 duplicants XD
Sorry I just watched your video and had no time to test my idea in game... is it feasable to keep shovels in one stable each, and use automation to kill the shovel right after an egg appears? A critter count > 1 should do. You either leave the egg there or move it. The limits here are 1) space requirements 2) building materials (you need 1 station for each shovel) 3) time spent by dups moving from 1 ranch to the next. Not sure if it's worth it. BTW do shovel die by drowning? If so, you could flood the stable when critter count > 1 and no dups are inside. The egg survives, critter turns into meat. Still you need an awful amount of rooms. BUT, in a real world scenario with a dup populalation under 50, 33 are supported by the breeding ranch, it doesn't take many single stables to support the rest. That is, taking into account that now a shovel's life ends prematurely, you get your meat faster and don't waste dup labor.
That will work. Like you said, the limiting factor is that you need a LOT of little stables. If you keep them groomed and a stable handles exactly one generation of one vole at a time then you'll need about 1.5 stables for each dupe you want to feed that way. You can get it down to .75 if you use the same stable to hatch an egg every 10 cycles (two generations simultaneously). Using incubators might speed it up even more but also make it difficult to do 2 generations in the same stable.
Rather than letting the eggs hatch why not just drown them and let them "evolve in to meat"? I did this once by packing a room full of liquid, a room just large enough to hold a conveyor chute, auto sweeper and conveyor loader.
That's a good way to go. But you'll need to figure out a different approach for replacing the adults when they die of old age. I wanted to avoid having eggs and juveniles in the breeder stable because it's very hard to manage without having it cut into egg production.
@@tonyadvanced6315 maybe a steel pneumatic door and enough unpowered incubators to keep the breeder population level. Not sure if that would detract from your objectives.
Great job, as always, explaining things so simply, clearly, and concisely. I think you actually the best at it from what I have seen. Question: you mentioned considering a way to kill of the voles after they have dropped their egg, so they don't linger around needlessly. Have you seen this video (ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-UxDY_U9U380.html)? and does it give you any ideas? I'd love to hear them! Thanks again for such great work!
Nice um make that ! i like idea send regolith direct to the ground, a alternative to secondary ranche is this, prntscr.com/pjamwr send eggs direct to this when born hes die, i dont know ifit reduces efficiency. Another method i used an other asteroid is this prntscr.com/pjaodq send all eggs to incubators, when adult dups send to principal ranche, and the trap (i got ur video) make your work =] . Nice video, stay good work.
That's a good idea but the approach that I use for cooling doesn't allow it. Still, there are other ways to manage heat that are fine with a miner in that configuration, so it can be made to work.
