I immediately came to the comments when the video started to see if anyone else noticed they overlooked the several single cards this goes infinite with lmao
shalai and hallar have war elemental, the red terror, and heliod sun crowned, they also work well with keen sense and snake umbra , seems very undervalued here
1:00:00 - I mentioned this in response to the 99 video, but this Etali trigger is different from regular Etali. You ALWAYS hit two cards, it keeps going until you hit a non-land
On Etali, you said "Lands don´t do anything" - its not quite the same trigger as old Etali. New Etali exiles until he hits a nonland you can cast so its even better by comparison
Combos are lame though - if it said each player, it would be good and allow value plays. Nothing special about a two card combo. Not to mention, it will get shot on sight if it ever is about to win.
@Kennell Frederick I'm not talking about evaluating how it is to play against, I'm saying how its being evaluated as per the criteria presented. Whether you like combos or not, this card has them, and the video disagrees with that even though there are 14+ as stated by the other reply. Also being a magnet to removal is not a talking point. That should suggest it's more powerful, not less.
@@kennellfrederick4367 LoL you must win every CEDH game you play, i mean you stop every combo, that needs to seek 1 card, by having it die to removal...
I guess we just forgot that Heliod exists for Shalai and Halar. Kroxa also insta-wins by having Altar of Dementia by going “Kroxa -> Sac to mill 6 -> get Kroxa back with itself -> mill to a select number of cards are in graveyard -> use final Kroxa trigger to reanimate Sun Titan instead -> reanimate Animate Dead -> reanimate Worldgorger Dragon -> perform one Worldgorger loop with Animate Dead -> use Sun Titan to reanimate any 3 or less etb damage effect -> you win with infinite Worldgorger loop” Im sorry yall. It feels like you kind of only surface level looked at these.
Kroxa and Kunoros has Altar of Dementia as a one card wincon! Self mill, using altar to mill yourself 6 and always choosing your commander to come back from it's own etb, netting you a card in your graveyard. Mill until you have Angel of Glory Rise and Fiend Hunter in your graveyard, then end the loop by bringing Angel of Glory Rise back, etb effect brings back Fiend Hunter. Fiend Hunter etb exiles Angel of Glory Rise. Sacrifice the Fiend Hunter to mill a player a card, Angel of Glory Rise etb brings back Fiend Hunter, Fiend Hunter exiles Angel of Glory Rise. Repeat until your opponents mill out. Power level of these commanders (Shalai and Hallar too) is underrated by these two this time. Keep up the great work!
Shalai and Hallar have multiple 2 card combos that it's actually pretty consistent, especially with the Naya colors being the best at getting said combo pieces. Power on it is up the wazoo
@@kennellfrederick4367 I can see the idea of combos not being fun, especially in more casual metas. However a combo with your commander is the most built-around your commander can be. Probably the best example of this is cEDH Godo, where almost every single card in the deck is focused on equipping Helm of the Host to Godo as fast and safely as possible.
Something unique I’ve seen with Yargle and Multani is a focus on power matters deck. A deck where you play it and either sack it to greater good to draw 18 cards, or dome someone for 18 with Essence harvest. And if Yargle and Multani die to much, you can also use other creatures with absurd power that are very common in green and black.
Haha I can’t help but feel like the Shalai/Hallar take is a troll take. There are multiple two card combos with it and counters are such a supported theme it’s half multiple combos in the command zone and even if not playing any of the combos it’s still very easy to put so many counters on stuff you just burn down the the table. Be very interesting to see if the nerds are right on this one but I don’t think so. Although I do think the characters in the card are kinda meh so I agree with that
Shalai and Hallar is a very powerful commander. Maybe the most powerful naya commander, if were talking power level. Absolutetly boring but goes infinite super quick with colors that can tutor creature combos very good.
Gotta day I disagree with the Shalai and Hallar assessment. I'm so excited to put them in with my Marath deck. The amount of +1/+1 counters I just move onto other creatures is crazy and now I get to just blast my opponents in the face for just 4 mana seems crazy good to me.
I think you might be underestimating Heliod's power. It gets back some real powerhouse staples (mystic remora, rhystic study, smothering tithe..) and the backside goes nuts with wheels like windfall. Plus giving everything flash is quite powerful in itself. There's some potential there.
Shalai and Hallar 1 card combos from command zone: Red Terror, Heliod Sun-Crowned, War Elemental and few others probably. Also huge payoffs for things like Cathars Crusade/Defiler of Vigor. This is sooooooo bad take from Your side.
I was going to mention Shalai and Hallar as the most underrated but since everyone already mentioned it I'll go with Kroxa and Kunoros with altar of dementia leading to exiling your whole deck and tutoring for your combo. I don't have the exact line in front of me but I know there's a bunch of ways
Shalimar and Hallar go infinite with The Red Terror just like the enchantment All Will Be One does. I dont understand how you guys missed that. Half a 2 cars infinite combo in your command zone.
Dang, feels like y'all are really missing the mark on the power of a few of these. Shalai and Hallar is one of the strongest in the set as like... everyone else has said. Rem/Traft reads really weak at first glance, but with an Intruder Alarm or similar effect and any way to tap Rem/Traft, you can guarantee 3 tokens a turn, and it gets totally infinite with any way to flicker. Kroxa/Kunoros also can self-mill your deck and reanimate itself with an Altar of Dementia which seems pretty noteworthy. Definitely stronger than you're expecting here. Shocked by your top rankings too tbh.
comboing doesn't make the deck strong, because you can play combos in any deck for an easy win. The ability of Shalai and Hallar only targets one person instead of each opponent, so it's hard to win over time. You pretty much have to go combo which means you're ignoring the +1/+1 counter theme, which is supposed to win through combat damage.
@@kennellfrederick4367gnoring the fact that +1/+1 counter decks have loads of ways to repeatedly put counters on themselves anyway, pinging for tons of damage? I play an Abzan counters deck and it can put 10-20+ counters on a board very easily. That’s crazy damage numbers with Shalai and Hallar. It’s also really silly to say the deck is “supposed” to win with combat damage, when Wizards has made a real effort to make counters decks feel different as of late and not just be a binary ramp up combat damage deck at all times. Look at cards like Falco Spara?
Kasla's REAL power lies in being an ally, making her a PERFECT secret commander in a 5 color General Tazri deck, there's definitely enough GOOD convoke cards in all 5 colors to make the deck function and running all the cheap early game value creatures that will then double as mana dorks means you have a fairly strong deck overall.
Oh yeah, I feel the same way about Thalia and the Gitrog Monster. The moment I saw it spoiled, I knew I wanted to play it as my new commander. I had no clue what I wanted to do with the deck, except I wanted Thalia and the Gitrog Monster at the helm.
Do these guys even play the game outside of cedh or something cause they rate all the cards that are not insta win or crazy value engines as bad like what?!
Agree with most things except Shalai and hallar and heliods power rating, any artifact deck with wheels and draw spells just wins after he flips. Keep up the good work nerds!!!❤
how you guys didnt read the flavor text of kroxa and kuneros is beyond me. literally tells you the invasion tree breached the underworld and they're fighting in the underworld. also the shalai and hallar take is so off its crazy.
Fun fact, because Rem Karolus adds a point of damage to spells you cast that deal damage, they make a really fun Dragons Approach commander. Plus since all damage from spells dealt to you or creatures you control is prevented, you come thru a Blasphemous Act unscathed.
Overall, it sounds like y'all kinda could have used more time doing your research before making this video. Check out the mechanics, check out the support, see where things fall.
Giada's body was restored with Halo and she was constantly following Errant around while she was on her mission to plant the charges to knock the skyscrapers by lending potency to her halo cartridges and shielding her from harm, but never actually made her presence know Errant. Giada was essentially Errant's guardian angel during the mission Also Athreos saw that Kroxa ate the phyrexians so hard that no oil remained when they reached him in the underworld, so he unchained him and sent Kunoros to shepherd Kroxa so he couldn't escape again. Edit: There's a recent article about why a lot of the team ups are teaming up. Kairi decided Hidetsugu's power would be needed to fight the phyrexians as an example, so decided to unlock Hidetsugu, etc
I just see Heliod as a Teferi’s Puzzle Box/Eldrazi deck or artifact deck. If it’s artifact it’s gonna combo Atleast the Eldrazi route won’t be littered with combos hopefully
@@redzone4412 wait REALLY???? Such a boring uninspired middle child of such an awesome cycle?? I didn't even finish the video cause I saw the first few and realised I couldn't trust this one based on the misses but that's embarrassing
I gotta echo what other people are saying here, I think you guys are waaaay off on Shalai and Hallar. I really like that it gives counters decks a way to win, and I also think having a deck that can still do the thing without NEEDING the commander in play is a pretty strong way to play. Love you nerds but gotta disagree!
Shalai and hallar are the best commander in March of the Machines. It’s combos off with the red terror, heliod sun crowned, war elemental, scurry oak/herd baloth with ivy lane Denizen/cathars’ crusade. On top of that whenever one or more +1/+1 counter is placed on a creature it deals damage to an opponent equal to the amount of counters that are put on the creature. THAT IS INSANE! These guys are clearly misreading the card and undervaluing it.
*watches this video and questions the first ranking being called weak* *goes to cEDH channel* “I really think that this commander has legs in this format with how many 1 card combos there are and the good colors it’s in”
like i get they you gotta go with the algorithm and get these out while the set is popular, but maybe wait until the article on the legends comes out to do these episodes. it looks real bad for you guys to say theirs no story for the teams up when most of them got atleast a blurb. either way love you guys, keep up the good work
Some of these power ratings are pretty hilarious. First they said the commander with the most/easiest infinite combos doesn't do anything (Shalai and Hallar). Then they said Heliod is really weak too, even though he's being tested in cEDH because you can play Wheel + Eldrazi/other giant cards. He's almost a Prophet of Kruphix on the back side lol
As someone who has an OG Kroxa deck, it's not _that_ hard to keep a graveyard stocked. Also, what game are you playing in that you need 10+ reanimations to win while attacking with a 6/6 Lifelink Menace.
Hey Joe and Beezy! I just built Slicer, Hired Muscle last week. And then I just saw that you placed it at 619 before Moira and Teshar….. Slicer is the most broken commander! I think you guys should revisit it! It is a CEDH commander, even on a relatively modest budget! Play all the red rituals, and it spreads out commander damage to the tune of 21 a turn as early as turn 1 or 2, and ends the game before other players are able to even get their game plan started. It’s literally mono red aggro in EDH!
@@romyjane17 even built for non-CEDH it’s super strong, super fast and super fun! And it’s literally mono-red aggro in EDH! Mono-Red Aggro literally exists in every format except EDH.
Rem has flying and haste, adds an additional one damage to burn caused by spells to opponets, as well as prevents damage spells would do to you. Very good in my Gisela blade of goldinght global burn deck. Super fun!
Moira and Teshar combo with end step exile effects like Teleportation Circle and Conjurers Closet so you keep whatever you bring back as long as you can flicker it into exile
I get that it doesn’t look like a sexy commander, but the assessment on Shalai and Hallar is erroneous. I have agreed with you with just about everything else, BUT S&H infinite combos with a ham sandwich. One, two, and three card combos.
It was mentioned giada wasn't old enough/to small to fight like other new capenna angels, so she wasn't always ball of energy always unlike other angels. You have to remember new capenna angels are different from normal angels.
Unfortunate this was recorded probably right before the lore blurbs came out for all of these. Not that it saves the fact everything happens offscreen but it might clear up some of the confusion as to what's going on.
With glissa i could see her being really annoying with say a phyrexian tribal with lots of low cost phyrexians , ramp and draw and some buffs/anthems , play lots of low cost critters , give them death touch and first strike, maybe some +1+1's and swing , idk about top tier but i wouldnt call it weak
Saint traft and rem karolus with jeskai ascendancy and sorcerers class though. Think that could be interesting maybe with like the best convoke cards and inspired creatures.
I think this commander is stronger than the Nerds think it is. You can get some value with convoke and then win with Sakashima's Will/Mirrorweave/Polymorphous Rush effects and change everything into 4/4 angels instead of a deck that goes wide and wins with an overrun effect. Its the same idea, it's just doing a very tired strategy in a different way so you can play different cards.
I'd love to see Quintorius pop over to Amonkhet, do some Indiana Jones shenanigans and find the old lost cities on the plane from before old Nicky B scrapped it all to build his little oasis army growing city.
@@colinbrown74 He wasn't immortal in his first printing where he came back from the graveyard every turn either. He was just incredibly hard to get rid of, lore wise
Kroxa and Kunoros is a super strong and flexible commander that's already got a couple cEDH builds. One on the turbo Ad Naus side and then a more grindy, staxy version. This card is a house and it's in really strong colors.
Everyone is talking about Shalai and Hallar, but I also feel that Sheoldred got a bit underrated here. In a non-combo meta it's a very strong recurring value piece. Sure it's 10 mana, but it can be payed in 5 + 5 installments, and it probably destroys more than that in value, with the non-token edict and destroy permanent from chapter 1. And discard 3 into Rise of the Dark Realms is a very solid disruption into win condition line. Again, not a cEDH card I reckon, but quite strong in combat metas, especially in the 99
I used to agree to a lot of things you said on past videos like this one. But damn you messed up big time here. It's like you weren't prepared at all. Shalai and Hallar, Kroxa and Kunoros, Brimaz, Rona, Moira and Teshar, Rashmi and Ragavan are all crazily underrated and on the other side, Zimone and Dina while good, are not a 10. She has to tap to do anything, you must have another creature to get its effect and his trigger ONLY HAPPEN ONCE. Come on, just by theses restrictions, you can't say she's a 10. A 10/10 commander is "come in" = immediate danger. Like I would say for K'rrik or Chulane in terms of rough power. You know its going to be bad just when they touch the table. Do you realise you put her ABOVE Najeela which is a 9; even Omnath locust of Creation is a 7 by your standard... Insanely messed up. PS : You misreaded Etali... I mean, he's not strong as a commander anyway but please READ the card ! at the same
23:20 Polukranos has a special place in my heart, the Heroes vs. Monsters duel decks were what helped me learned how to play magic and that guy was just the bees knees to little Timmy me. I really want to see him die and come back two more times in each color, giving us a simic Polukranos and a Gruul Polukranos. The running joke of Polukranos coming back and dying over and over just seems funny to me personally
I just made a Hidetsugu and Kairi deck that is incredibly degenerate. You can go the sac/revive route with things like Malakir Rebirth + Phyrexian Altar, ooooooooor clone effects: Cackling Counterpart, Quasiduplicate, Rite of Replication, Glasspool Mimic, and use the brainstorm like effect to set up your top deck to flip monstrously large MV spells like Temporal Trespass, Time Stretch, Mnemonic Deluge, Expropriate, Treasure Cruise, Seagate Restoration, In Garruk's Wake, or whatever flavor of groan you want to induce in your friend group. And also, force your opponent to find a way to remove your commander without killing them (but if you have sacrifice outlets on board, they're boned)
Enough people have already mentioned shalai and halar, (100% disagree with your call btw) but lets talk about yargle and multani. There are so many cards in green that just draw equal to power. Even the ones that you have to sac the creature. Oh, hey, you're also in black so you have reanimation. Its a pretty good way to go through your entire deck in a turn or two. Making it kill with a +3/+3 is just a weird side plan
Shalai and Halar are a missed opportunity. The card is strong, but I don't think it really captured the personality of both commanders. They should have given them a kicker cost that distributes counters and temporary hexproof. Make it expensive, and that would have worked. It wouldn't have been too busted either.
Polukranos has a pretty cool unike interactiom though, if you play Hydras with X/X power toughness for X=0 then they die upon hitting the battlefield thus making the two tokens, two 3/3 tokens with effects for 1-3 mana is a pretty good deal put in some graveyard to battlefield spells and some token buffers and youve got an army of hydras on the field, pretty cool go wide strategy imo its a bit janky but the unikness makes it kinda worth it imo.
Cloning is so strong for hidetsugu and Kairi, that gives you both an ETB and death trigger at the same time. And if you get a clone spell off the top you can make up for not pulling a strong card with getting another chance to reroll
a quick side note light paws and bright Palm are not the same guy bright is light paws student that got caught in the spirit realm and now can control spirits
I am going to get an alt for Thalia and the Gitrog Monster that is evoking the cover from the Akira anime with Thalia walking toward the Gitrog Monster instead of a motorcycle.
Your discussion of Kasla gave me an idea for future video. Commanders that have changed significantly since their original placement due to new cards or mechanics impacting them.
