Dr. Sizwe my brother, I also request you make a RU-vid video on BEE. To make a stats of who were/are beneficiaries, number of jobs and they're creating /or created. What industries are they in. Are weather or continue to get funding from government fin institutions etc. This will help us a great deal to examine if the current BEE that perpetuate the tenderism culture structure is the way to go or not going forward for the economic future of SA. I thank you my leader.
Bee is just a policy...the problem it's the elite politicians, who took advantage to enrich themselves... giving us fake black business people with no content of vision..
The amount of time it would take to conduct this exercise is not worth it for just a RU-vid video. However, I understand why you want one and it would be interesting to hear what the research and numbers say.
Strangely, your followers, Sizwe, have been brainwashed not to question white monopoly capital. Encourage them to research Vanguard and Blackrock. Blacks always target blacks. Sizwe, I guarantee that you will never discuss Vanguard and Blackrock
I agree with you although he failed with majority in parliament to deal with the LAND land TO BE GIVEN BACK TO THE PEOPLE 0F THIS COUNTRY US BLACKS FROM THE WHITE MINORITY
Thabo Mbeki, 1.Economic growth and stability: Under Mbeki's leadership, South Africa experienced significant economic growth and stability, with a focus on fiscal discipline and infrastructure development. 2.Diplomacy and international relations: Mbeki was known for his active role in African and global diplomacy, promoting peace and stability in the region and representing South Africa on the international stage. 3. Thabo Mbeki's presidency is his focus on education and skills development, which was aimed at addressing the inequalities inherited from apartheid and preparing the workforce for the demands of a modern economy.
But he destroyed the unity , hope , and potential of the "rainbow nation" . He chose a pan African black agenda , that alienated the minorities . I can only imagine what SA might have been .
@@mvuyogoniwe9822 There was a greater proportion of black people being moved from the lower class, to the lower/middle & middle class. Because of his skills development programs, both my parents found decent jobs & in the year 2000 we moved from Alex, to a bond house in the neighbouring surburb. The surburbs around Alex (Kelvin, Lombardy, Bramley, Linbro Park, Malboro got populated by black people during this time). This was also exacerbated by the changes made in the FSCA (Then FSB), making it easier to take out homeloans. Multiracial schools offered more exemptions, allowing kids to go to well-resourced schools. The department of Arts & Culture was in full swing, funding artists. And black radios were gems. Teachings around safe-sex, and domestic abuse was an all time high. Social grants were first initiated. The most RDPs were built. There was a land-claims court. Our currency was at its strongest.
Motlanthe deserved a longer time in office. He held the country steady, there were no allegations of corruption around him, he was thoughtful and intelligent, ethical, and he brought stability. I would have loved to see what a longer term would have brought. Unfortunately he was seen as a seat warmer for Zuma, but he could have been so much more potentially.
I liked him a lot but I feel he was toothless in a sense and knew he was a placeholder for Zuma, so didn't try to rock the boat at all which makes me believe that he would be similar to Ramaphosa in being soft on his cadres.
Even if all were given 1000 years, there's is nothing you could do with a country that was in debt from sanctions and 70% of uneducated population, 30% electricity penetration, and now a democratic country that owned no primary means of production, just shell SOEs, ESKOM owns no coal, ANC self preservation ..and a democratic system that only favours leaders with money, leader looking to impress the funders and not the country.., ...kuningi we mlungu
If your answer is right, then it means those who could not relate to him did so because they are tribalists. Remember JZ has never said he is looking for Zulu supporters but he has been seeking support from all South Africans,, if they did not respond then it is not JZ's problem but those who refused on the basis that they will not support somoene who is a Zulu or not of their ethnic group. He tried to reach out to other ethnic groups in Limpopo but was not welcomed - now who do blame? Who is a tribalist? Why blaming him? Anyway, other people in Limpopo who are not tribalist did arrive at the venue to interact with him.
@@Tsebomjiks9789 he needs to rest he is Old and frail to even go to jail remember? He has failed and needs to accept that. This country became devided the minute Zuma was president and the country was never the same after that. Zuma and his team ousted Mbeki and Zizi stepped down and never fought his way back in.
@@KazieD Yep he is old and also does not qualify to be the president anymore, I really appreciate that he is in a way redeeming himself to some of the mistakes he committed. So, he must slow down and give the young ones like Mogoeng that opportunity. Look without his participation there is no way that MK would have grown this fast, that is where he is needed and once that is achieved he will give the MK to Mogoeng as it is speculated.
Mbeki's presidency was chefs kiss imo, he's actually the reason I chose to study economics. If he had gotten the HIV/Aids thing right, we would have continued on a good trajectory but it was a big fail unfortunately- I don't think he had bad intentions at all though... more misunderstood imo.
@sandilemnguni9112 He had a plan and I had confidence in his plan, where he failed to address things initially, wrt Aids + Eskom, when he realised that he was wrong, actually later put in plans to correct (govt spend on arv's increased and medupi + kusile plans were made under his tenture)... and that spoke to his leadership. Also him being known to personally hold cadres responsible for their portfolio's. Outside of ideas and ideals, he would make plans and execute, I haven't seen another SA Pres who has done both to the same level... fyi, your tone is not welcomed
@@indiran3975Also Kusile and Medupi were started in his tenure and supposed to be finished in 7 years. Mid Ramaphosa's tenure they are not complete and functioning at full capacity. Why were they not finished in the Zuma years? What's taking so long?
@MfezekoMatshoba yes!!! this is very frustrating, 3 presidents since Mbeki and nobody seems to have a solid plan, just pie in the sky and shifting goal posts... If only that had been completed during that tenure, maybe we would have been better off but cadres were impatient and ready to loot the promised land 😒
Sizwe, SA was flourishing under Mbeki. Even the single Mandela term was being managed by Mbeki in the background. Thereafter, tragedy befell South Africa.
Not Sizwe opening the CR era with saying CR does not use the State to fight his battles, Ace would argue differently, Mkhwebane paid the prize, the CR17 statements are sealed, the Reserve Bank and Gqaleka are working around Phala Phala. To contrast, Zuma didn't fire Thuli. Maybe we should not be harsh on Cupcake but kubi pha kwi term yakhe. Nice episode overall.
It would be a great mistake to forget the transformation towards free education particularly in the higher Education sector following the #FeesMustFall movement during Zuma's Presidency. Give the man his flowers.
No education is free btw. To pay for the education of the youth, the working class pay taxes to support them. Do you really trust the government with our money 😂
Mbeki was the real makoya. I especially loved his intellectualism (I feel safe and secure having an undoubtedly smart president with a plan) and his transformation agenda (which faced the toughest resistance, but that didn't throw him off the urgency and importance he placed on transformation). Thanks for the great content, Sizwe! Top tier stuff! ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐
Intelligence is all about processed data...all of us , we have intelligence called knowledge...But knowledge is useless when not applied or simplified...Mr MBEKI's ALGOA, was useless...and so was RDP, what was supposed to be an economic plan, we ended up with a 4- roomed- house...You need to ask his brother, Moeletsi about Mr Mbeki's tenure...I rest my case
@@SonOfTheSoil834 yes, it's just ability to process data, processed data is called info , and processes info is called knowledge... intelligence comes from a word Intel...But wisdom is special.. .Wisdom has insight and foresight..go and educate yourself please Son..don't give up
Your ranking was good and fair👏🏾but mine would look like this: 1. Mbeki (Ayeye with a bit of Very Good) my reasons are that the Economy was growing and we had a Vision aimed at uplifting Africa from the current state through the African Renaissance concept. That concept was supposed to unifier of African people in the rebuilding of the continent. 2. Mandela (Very Good with a bit of Ayeye) we must remember that he was the first president of a democratic state which was accompanied with a lot compromise in order to unify a very divided nation. Mbeki also gets the credit here because it has been mention that he was the brains behind Mandela. 3. I'll skip Montlante and go straight to Zuma and Ramaphosa both for me they belong to Failed w/o sub because a lot of what is wrong with this country today emanates from the Zuma presidency and Ramaphosa was part of that presidency. These 2 presidents failed to take advantage of the economic foundations that were put by their predecessors. Instead they were self serving as shown by the Zondo commission. Sizwe, I also want remind you of what Dr Mtimka said about lack of meritocracy in the Zuma era. You can imagine what this has done to the country since 2009.
What I know about the Ramaphosa presidency is that, it is destabilized by the ANC from within. The people that were fighting for Zuma to be President, continued to fight for him when he was President even though through the years we have a new breed of fighters but, all in all, people that were on Zuma's side stood with him even through Ramaphosa's Presidency. We had characters like Ace "matter of 5 years" Magashule & others in the RET group within the ANC NEC, now there's MK, the fight is still on. For the first time an ANC SG is expelled, Parliament speaker is facing corruption charges has resigned & in court. NIU, SIU, State Capture still followed but with major fightback. Stabilizing SARS, NPA, ANC.
THABO MBEKI will always be the best president SA has ever had. Taking over from Madiba, the man that never did so much because his presidency benefited more from his social influence, the country and its economy attracted so many investors in all walks of life. The question was, who can sustain the peak of the economy that Madiba left for the country at the time and there wasn’t any other name than the Master of the Economics. Ahhh Zizi 🙌🏾🙌🏾🙌🏾
You don't need a President to sustain the economy, you need a sound economic plan, From RDP to ALGOA a figment of his imagination that he couldn't simplify..what cannot be simplified can not be applied...just useless...
@@bubelerasmeni1846my lil criticism for him was when the got the numbers to amends our constitution ,he didn’t !and now Ramadollar is using those weaknesses and loopholes in that stupid constitution to cripple our country
@@JabuMjokahe inherited a performing country from Mr Mandela...the question is what did he do with that 2/3 majority, economic growth of 8% did nothing.. stopped the nuclear pebble bed program..what legacy are we talking about...??
My comments: 1. It's great that you highlighted the legislative achievements of Mandela. Talk about the the right person at the right time! Almost "Ayeye" 2. AIDS was more of an epidemic than a pandemic - hence Mbeki is discredited. 3. Growth is one side of the equation. The other is indebtedness, which had been improved under Mbeki, but shot up sharply under Zuma. 4. A lot of the capital intensive achievements of Zuma were based on debt (i.e. borrowing from future generations). Eskom is a prime example. 5. Ramaphoria... Enough said
This guy (Bra Tbos Mbeki) had a long term plan for South Africa to own it's minerals and land... Never easy though, however patients is what we never had... More internal vows within the Organisation he was leading because of his style of leadership and corrupt gangs were sick and tired of Mbeki... We will never have a South Africa like Mbeki's South Africa again.... It's gone long gone....
Ayeye looks like : Free education, quality health care, high average income per household across the board, lifestyle audits and performance reports from a smaller cabinet and also smaller parliamentary membership in general. Growth of industry (blue collar and white collar) growth of innovation (tech and finance space) - generally, a booming economy. zero corruption, efficient policing, an uncaptured judiciary. state owned bank - financing entrepreneurship and re-invigorating state owned entities. ranking : Mandela - average (faced apartheid debt vs large black poor population, but no real black empowerment), Mbeki - Good (elitist, BEE created black elites, grew the white-collar space but neglected blue collar, focused on monetary/market growth gains - privatization - and less on state driven investment), Motlante - average (not enough time), Zuma - good (had mis-haps but broadly black lives were the most improved. More people did business with the gov, (real BEE), health, education was improved. Massive infrastructure development (blue collar) massive investments in internships, bursaries, and civil servants (focus on professional developments, more black graduates who got employment - i'm one of them) got a big head, missed his blind spots. allies used him to advance their interests (guptas) so in essence turned a good working model into a corrupt beneficiation. overall most PRO-Black president we've had. Ramaphosa- dismal failure. (reemergence of white supremacy, racism, and imperialism. wishy-washy. no implementation, no economic growth programmes, policing, health, and education utter failures. has no backbone and disastrous leadership. Zero charisma. empty vessel.
@Bathandwa your comment was quite long..but I could not stop myself but to read it with interest. Your analysis shows a lot of maturity and wisdom, and yet you appear to be young...I would love for Dr Sizwe to host bright minds like you, from this commentary section...I want to see something... Continue to improve yourself by acquiring your true self identity and self love... Identity gives you the ability to validate yourself, to love yourself and to love others...Khula Ndodakazi!
To me, Thabo Mbeki was the best president because during his time, the economy of the country was very much stabilised. He did everything to avoid corruption but his ANC comrades saw that as a challenge because they could not do what they do best. The Mandela error was more of a transition period so I guess he did well under those circumstances. Motlhanthe becomes my second best looking at the fact that he was only in office for a short time. Truth is that he simply continued with what was planned by Mbeki's office. I do not want to talk about Zuma and Ramaposa because corruption grew infront of their eyes and they both promised but never delivered to stop it. A case in example: what happened with the Zondo commission report? why the recommendations are never implemented ? Thabo Mbeki was our main man.
The ground was fertile during his tenure across the globe 🌎 and that makes it hard to conclude whether he was good or bad. We can only judge him better if he is the president now.
Cyril Ramaphosa is the president of the ANC, not South Africa. Do not expect Ramaphosa to fix corruption. it's been reported that he knows who is responsible for corruption but won't do anything about it because it will make the ANC look bad.
UBaba Mandela stated that they inherited a government with no money in treasury, as all the primary means of production had been transferred to private hands...this took place with an economist , Mr Mbeki, in the room... We ended up with an economic policy that know as a house not an economic plan, RDP... ESKOM that doesn't own any coal mine... should I go on...?
Mandela: Well, I agree that it's quite difficult to analyze his Presidency being confined to only his Government tenure, without visiting His historical account, fighting apartheid and being incarcerated for so many years. The question as we theme his Presidency around peace or fence-mending tenure, what did we achieve from a socioeconomic perspective? How do we continue to glorify peace without a great shift in means of production ownership, land redistribution, Adv. Ngcukaitobi, explained that the restitution clause was quite knotty. Mbeki: Quite a smart President and was one that inspired hope and His stance on a debt-free state was one trajectory that made sense. He tried to establish a very good cabinet and the integration within his departments was great. This is the presidency where we heard less complaints on SoEs compared to Zuma and Cyril. The Aids issue really defeated him. I would give Mbeki an Ayeye for his Deputy Presidency because he was hands on and is one DP that did well. Mbeki's points drop because he had 2/3 and they did not deal the land issue and wasted all the opportunity to make our constitution pragmatic on justice and equality. Motlante: He wasn't going to do much, because he wasn't a Party President, so that means he didn't have enough prerogatives from a political front. He was used by the ANC (unclever opinion lol!) Zuma: Rape allegations, corruption charges and Dr. Adv Ngcuka explains that it wasn't easy to arrest and charge an incoming President, which means that the there was still reasonable doubt on his allegations of corruption. This guy had the worst cabinet and frequent reshuffles (weekend special Min. of Finance), he was faced with insurmountable opposition in Parliament (Mmusi, Lekoto, Julius and some good ministers resigned at his reign), FMF occurred in his tenure, he just had bad luck man. He built a University, Infrastructure such as roads, and promised us loadshedding and free education for the poor. Cyril: His supporters will call you out that his term hasn't ended and that he'll be re-elected but I say kudos for doing this EP now because chances are if he's re-elected, it will be on coalition basis and that will definitely make his Presidency shaky. I guarantee you that if he doesn't get more that 50%, he will resign if Parliament votes for him. This is one guy that can be controlled by ANC NEC and doesn't seem to gauge whether or not their advice is pertinent. He has literally inherited more than half of Zuma's bad cabinet, how was he expecting to succeed. He deserves the same opprobrium Zuma was painted with because corruption, maladministration, and many more still find expression under his leadership. Overarching view: I forgive Nelly M for his shortcomings hence I won't rate, I agree with you on Mbeki, Motlante, I cannot rate, Zuma: I fully agree, Cyril: Failed without sup and should face with evictions.
This is a dishonest airbrushing of Mbeki's legacy. There were on average 250k HIV/AIDS related deaths in the country between 2000 and 2009. Mbeki's misguided policy on HIV was catastrophic. Secondly, every other crisis that befell South Africa rests squarely on Zuma and Cupcake's predecessors. We cannot overlook Mandela and Mbeki's policy failures on Energy, land reform, emboldening ZANUPF and setting off the mass exodus of economic migrants.
Yeah, he did such a phenomenal job shutting down nursing and teaching colleges, selling Telekom, delaying the development of power stations and and and
Mbeki outsourced most of the permanent jobs to brokers, most people felt the pain and people were paid less and lost benefits from employers. Recession period was during Mbeki's time
Mbeki is simply Ayeye bro. Pandemics cannot just be solved over night. He is human he was just unlucky with that issue but he made sure that the country was safe, habitable and growing
i think we may be especially harsh on Ramaphosa, but a lot of it has to do with the decline in competence of the people around him - and finding very few ANC leaders actually interested in serving the nation. In the Mandela, Mbeki era there were still stalwarts who cared. Now you'd be hard pressed to find that
Ramaphosa guys his presidency was divided remember there is a group of cadres from exile who doesn't take him seriously. Also he took over from a shaky economy from previous leader while still trying to fix covid 19 attacked. Companies affected people lost their jobs. We also lacked good leadership Madida and Zizi had a very powerful cabinet don't forget that. Poor Ramaphosa lack support from his divided cabinet.
@@Nkabi_ZA yes thats true, but if you look at how close his elections at NASREC have been, he definitely has to keep a lot of political opponents close. "keep your friends close & your enemies closer"
This was fun 😂😅 Your rankings were spot on. Ramaphosa could have been an Eish, right there with Zuma. Montlante should have been Average as we don't remember much of his presidency but Mandela and Mbeki were spot on. Great one Siz, Thank you!
This is really weird to beat even doctors. That as long as you have a family member as a witch ,you never come Allright. I don't think it's fair to compare Ramaphosa to the other presidents.Im speaking as a neutral person here. Mandela ;Mbeki and Montlhathe had no competition with their presidency to my knowledge. For that matter Ramaphosa did many atimes. Each time they failed they sabotaged his work so there is a sabotage from within and opposition parties as well eg 2021 riots which includes burning of factories etc .One opposition party publicly announced making the country ungovernable in order to take over.How do you like that?
For me, I would give the highest rating possible to Baba Madiba. I think the man navigated what was a very delicate situation very well, without his wisdom and A - class leadership the nation would have plunged into a civil war. The second place goes to Thabo. Cyril had the opportunity to enter the hall of fame but he took over an ANC that had essentially become a criminal organisation beyond redemption. (Disclaimer: I am neither a South African nor have lived their continously for a very long time. But I have taken keen interest in its economic and political history for decades. My views are based on secondary sources)
Thank you for your disclaimer, this will help me to deal with you with kindness...Mr Mandela was there to stabilize the country by giving us political power , instead he gave us political compromise, many Black South Africans forgave their oppressors but till today they can't forgive themselves for reaching a one sided compromise....and those who came after him , were supposed to concentrate on giving economic power to the people, but they failed. Instead they focused on enriching themselves..houses in Houghton...allowing those with money to have both political and economic power...Now they have no political power, yes they have money but lost self confidence and identity... without identity, they don't know who they are...they do not love themselves, hence they lack the ability to love their people or their country...I feel sorry for them...
1. Cyril Ramaphosa is the president of the ANC, not South Africa. He did inherit a shit show, but Its been reported multiple times that he knows who is responsible for corruption but won't fire them, refuses to conduct performance audits because it will make the ANC look bad. He is a trophy wife, he is there to look good and say the right things. He is a lying, spineless disappointment.
In his book 'A rumour of Spring' Max Du Preez does talk a little about the sudden change to GEAR, citing influences of IMF and the fact that a powerful ally of ours the Soviet Union that ANC relied on was no more (Chapter 6) I think in terms of wins I'd give to Rams are the deployments of SANDF in Mozambique and DRC (D.A currently has issues with the recent deployment in DRC, saying Parliament wasn't notified and we can't afford it) and maybe taking Israel to ICJ, also heard we are now suing USA and UK?idk how true that is. But I'm just being generous, Rams failed in every aspect🤣also, i think it'd be interesting to look at the number of Whistleblowers killed for speaking out against corruption in both the terms of Jacob and Rams to really see who suppressed the people, no?👀 Just a little add on, i personally don't rate Mbeki for failing to deal with HIV/AIDS. People died, and no amount of economic growth will make me overlook the lives of people. You only live once, a human life is very precious and that must not be taken lightly.
Thabo Mbeki was indeed better than all of them ,I remember the rand being R6 to UDS in 2009,I laughed when you got to Ramaphosa dude I can not think of anything good under his presidency ,I think perhaps he inherited a failed state and it's difficult for him to turn things around ,the ANC shot themselves in the leg by removing President Mbeki and continously failing to appoint proper leaders to govern.
I'm happy with your analysis but want to challenge the fact that Cyril is actually thee president who is using the State to suppress his opponents, he jailed Zuma, Sent NPA on Ace and suspended Busisiwe Mkhwebane remember Zuma allowed Thuli Madonsela to investigate him he also suspended Judge Hlophe
Great analysis, fair and straight to the point. My ranking Mandela - V. Good; Mbeki - V. Good; Motlanthe - Below Average ( I never forgive him for killing Scorpions); Zuma - Below Eish! ( I will never forgive him for allowing ordinary citizens from a foreign country to land at our Airforce Base. Now that was the pinnacle of disrespect) ; Cyril - Did not qualify to write the examination ( indecisive, inept, uninterested, lethargic, wanting etc)
As much as we don't want to admit. JZ, did more than what Mbeki did, we have to discuss the media noise and the deep state interests and Rand manipulation. JZ beats all of them hands down. He is not my fan by any chance, but I don't follow the media narratives but lived experience. Cyril is the worst
I think you ranked President Ramaphosa too low. He was dealt a difficult hand with the 2020 Covid-19 Pandemic and the last wasted 9 years of the Jacob Zuma Presidency (2009-2018). You could've ranked him by Eish Tier.
Sizwe, thank you for this. This is a wonderful and intelligible contribution. While there is so much one can say to your analysis (which is personal) even though factual - I am not sure if we can fully consider any of these presidents as 'ayeye' or having an 'ayeye' moment without taking seriously the legacies of south africa as a 'nation-state'. My concern here is largely influenced by your own work which forces us to think about the present South African through a historical analysis of its social structure. Such a social structure in your own work is that of racial capitalism: hence the 'New apartheid" (Mpofu-Walsh)- it's a continuation of the founding values of SA as first and foremost a settler colony. It seems to me, that we ought to read these presidents against the possibility or strive to shake off the legacies of settler colonialism. In doing this, we must acknowledge that there is no 'decolonization' of the settler colony - there is only a transformation of such a society in its 'post' outlook. Thus, we must then ask the question; How have these presidents contributed to the 'transformation' of SA into a country for all? If that is the question; then Mandela definitely had an "ayeye' moment since he is the founding father of the vision of SA that acknowledged its settler colonial roots but believed in building it for all. So, that in my mind is 'ayeye' - we all had the vision to look forward to a united South Africa. Mbeki's economic functionary leadership is the beginning of the problem. Mbeki promised a renewal of Africans and their social values but focussed his economic decisions on giving South Africa an image based on a neo-colonial outlook with a white economy ever expanding while the historically underprivileged remained under the state social welfare net. The jobs that you claim were created during his administration had very few pressures emanating from, for instance, minimum wage, his drive for maintaining market market-oriented economy allowed for the rise of inequalities within 'racial' groups with skyrocketing salary bills for the state driven by uncontrollable increases in the private sector. The jobs created were far from being 'decent' - hence later the ANC with COSATU pushed for 'decent work' where sustainable work and jobs alongside the UN NDG goals were a priority. In short, Mbeki's administration maintained the normal, neo-liberal and neo-colonial politics that focussed on 'development' and more development that actually served the interests of the well-developed white economy. I know for instance that his 'African Renaissance" ideology enriched the white settler SA business to penetrate the African market under the guise of being "South African' companies. But the returns on these investments remained individualized, accruing to the investors, not the people where such investors come from. I won't say much about Motlanthe. He was a good face. Zuma is the administration that I think we need to seriously study for a couple of reasons. First, it is undeniable Sizwe that, although Mbeki's ideology of "African Renaissance" threatened the anxieties of certain white South Africans, Zuma's 'nature' SCARED white business and of course; white South Africa. I remember his first visit to the UK when he became president - the coverage of Zuma in the UK at the time was simply anti-Zuma. From his private life to the corruption case, and of course; "lack of 'education'" threatened the white power structure or the settler colony that had been sustained by both Mandela and Mbeki. You have already mentioned some of Zuma's achievements and his flaws. I also think though we need to think about his administration against the settler colonial backdrop that he inherited and unlike his former predecessor showed willingness to point out and destroy. Think about this: Zuma is the first SA president to point out the early Marxist discourse of the 70s that South Africa is a racial capitalist state: or what became called "White monopoly Capital". Zuma's focus on race, distribution of wealth, insistence on history and the disfavour he received in SA (and British) media makes me think his presidency had an "ayeye" moment. In some way, Zuma threatened the white power structure. The 'figure' of the Guptas, in all 'its' prefiguration in our minds of who and what they represent(ed) - we need to also think about what they did to shaking the white power structure. From the mining sector, parastatals, communications etc - the Guptas (arguably with Zuma 'in charge' as the state capture report suggests) - his endeavour carried a significant revolutionary move that we still need to study carefully. Yes, when we study Zuma, we must of course take seriously the ways in which comrades and family around him saw his political move to shake settler colonial power structure as opportunities for their nefarious individualistic motives (including the very Guptas and Zuma). As such, I think we need to situate the performances of these presidents within a social structure of South Africa. Our tendency though is to focus on Zuma as an uneducated, 'corruption' or wealth and comfort driven character - which we should, but if we do, we might as well focus on the corruption of the last two before him. For instance, we learn in Pieter du Toit's book "ANC Billionaires" how Mbeki, after their return from exile was treated by the white SA business. The same is true for Mandela. From staying in mansions owned by the white SA billionaires to the financial support given to the ANC cadres etc to the business deals that benefitted many of the popular ANC leaders - it is clear that all the presidents before Zuma have some corruption scandals hidden somewhere. We can go on and on. But, because, I argue, some of the previous powerful ANC presidents did not threaten racial capitalism - they are still darlings of the post-apartheid transformation project. We see this with Ramaphosa. In fact, when you got to him in the presentation - I know you would have very little to say: he has been a disaster of them all - but also useful in the analysis that I ask we consider: that of taking the social structure of SA as a settler colony serious. If we do, Mr Ramaphosa has been a useful figure and frankly; good for the powerful economic class that controls life and economy in post-colonial/apartheid South Africa. Hence, I think it is helpful to delve into how these presidents either reshaped or threatened the social structure of SA. In other words, how do we think about the "New apartheid" through the lens of these presidents - it seems to me when we get to Zuma, there will be a need for some serious, not prejudicial reasoning by honest and reflexive reason. In this regard, I kindly ask you to please have a chat with Moeletsi Mbeki's analysis of the present South Africa - which in many ways is similar to your recent book observations. But the problem with you is that, you go in and out of the history-present connection - and sometimes, you leave the history and make us imagine the possibility of imagining a different South Africa without a real appreciation of the history. For Moeletsi - South Africa needs to be 'undone' for us to even imagine an analysis of the "ranking" of performance of SA presidents/presidency. So, for me, the 'Ayeye' moment in SA ought to begin with the structural issues - which Dr Mpofu-Walsh discusses in his bookS. Thus, the legacies are not just apartheid Sizwe, they date back to the British colonial period which provided the structure of the SA economic system. Thus, before we focus on economic performance which is a universal marker of performance of a country’s presidency, I think in postcolonial contexts, such a yardstick must centre the legacies of the history of such a society and how such legacies act to keep the status quo. Sizwe, Love you man and love what you do. Thanks for provoking me to reflect on these topics.
Thanks for all the great comments. These are the conversations we need to have as South Africans and people who love SA. Keep your own rankings coming! 😁
As historian am totally disapointed in you Dr Mpofu. You are wiping our history like EFF. You should have included FW Deklerk if you were talking about South African presidents. If your aim was to talk about the new era you should have said that. Thats why young ones think June 16 is a birthday of Sarafina cause our entrusted political commentators usually choose sides Not telling the mere truth .Also this thing of saying FW Dekerk was killing black people recently came with Malema . All along he has been part of RSA politcs. I just hate it if people wiping the history.
Great Podcast! 🎉 Acceptable points & observations that you have made! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 If only you could interview all of the Presidents, including Ramaphosa & hold no punches! We need them to answer some critical Qs about their continuous failures!
Cyril froze my bank accounts, had proxies launch lawsuits on me & I never had any of those issues while critical of Zuma. Cyril cracks down on his critics with real swiftness. He even finished his term without an SG. I think you need to do an episode on Zuma’s critics vs Cyril’s critics. He even had News24 smear his DP. He had the FBI clear Glencore & let’s not forget Phala Phala!
Zuma is unfortunately ranked under Eish without counting all his achievements like free education, two universities built under his name. The Gupta corner was used by his WMC who were his enemies. His performance was definitely not higher than his predecessors. I give Zuma average. CR has failed dismally.
Wht free education. Tht movement was a complete joke. Nothing came of it? I would have thought people realised by now tht education isn't free. Taxes would have to pay for it by the working class. Then there is an even bigger problem...not enough education to go around
Also wht is with this perception of cyril? Guy had to tackle covid in his term along with the zuma administrative corruption and the rest of the infrastructural declines. Is he an evil dude? Forsure, but put zuma in his place and he would have killed this country.
39:19 is hilarious!! You tried scrapping the barrel for the poor oak !! Spot on analysis doc - not an exhaustive or granular evaluation but more than adequate.
I think Ramaphosa’s governance during COVID era could influence one to put him on an “eish.” I agree with all the other rankings though. Thanks for this platform!
The criticism of Mbeki on HIV is unfair as the criticism of Zuma over state capture. At the time, HIV/AIDS wasn't well understood and it was good for Mbeki to ask questions and not rush people into taking g medications. We have seen with COVID-19 vaccines what greedy pharmaceutical companies can do and what that can do to people.
I saw the laugh coming miles away🤣. Thanks for the analysis. I just realised that President Zuma's support on the ground has been resilient in that it fought against the President Mbeki and still went to contest the CR17 and now we see the MK on the rise, it's worth noting on your scoring.
I think Msholozi is by far the best we had with all the sabotage he went through. The media, economists, business, and opposition parties were brutal on the guy, but he managed the situation. Mbeki was the darling of all, Mandela was a coward. Motlanthe was there for a short time, but I think he was a Cyril. CYRIL is by far the worst human being, not just the worst president.
Bcos he was sabotage by the west Sizwe we know that....Mbeki killed plenty people by being in denial about ARVs secondly he had 2/3rd of majority to change the constitution for us to have equal steak in the economy so for dat I dnt think he was number2 Sizwe
Thank you Sizwe for the objective analysis. However, without sounding like telling you how to do your analysis. I truly believe that as we’re comparing only ANC presidents, your analysis would be more accurate if your analysis was based on the policies of the ANC. Who amongst them was able to implement most of the ANC policies.
Mbeki presidency HIV denialism as someone who was there during apartheid weekend after weekend burying people bcs of violence etc.Boom Mbeki brought the same mood in a new South Africa 🇿🇦 to burying people weekend after weekend bcs denying HIV AIDS,everyone lost someone dearly to them,my own cousins died every time when think about them Mbeki come to the picture too which really hurt so much.As well good was in terms of over all presidency that alone was bad bcs people were unable to enjoy his reign sadly.I will unequivocal say he destroyed many childhood dreams of many children to grew up with their parents after Apartheid regime was dismantled bcs of HIV AIDS denialism
My cousin”unalived” herself after her boyfriend gave her HIV as a result of infidelity. She was scared of what the virus was going to do to her. Say what you want about Zuma, Mandela and Cyril, but none of those were AIDS denialists. Some of us have not forgotten the 300 000 people that died under Mbeki’s watch.
May she rest in peace, that is a tragedy on many levels. A few questions though for perspective. 1. Where did the fear come from? As in who told her to be afraid and what of? 2. When alternatives to this were provided by the gov of the day (if she was still with us at the time), what made her choose to "unalive" herself instead of seeing where the proposals took her first before making that decision? Perhaps, at least some of the anger should go to the media that vilified the proposals and introducee the term "AIDS denialist".
JZ is the best. Was once voted the best president in Africa. CR himself once attested to this fact in parliament, that JZ's infrastructure development was second to none. Blk ppl thrived not based on tribal lines. He did away with tribal pride which was setting in to bedevil this country. He is a seasoned strategist. Very shrewd n intelligent. In his time, he made what does work today to work for the benefit of SA. I will forever choose an African leader bases on his detractors.
@@MmeliEe good question. The guy stood upright against the western influence and got us into BRICS. My cost of living was a ton much better. I access education through NSFAS, husstle free. I saw loadshedding being haaaandled. Business opportunities for the Blacks around me boomed at the time. We were kept in the know about what our government was doing on our behalf, good or bad. I can count all day. Most importantly the infrastructural projects around me at the time were amazing. We were moving in the right direction. Oh and I paid very little for petrol at the time.
Dr. Sizwe has always found it difficult to hide his obvious dislike of Ramaphosa. Atleast he prefaced this analysis by admitting that it was wholly subjective.
I like the fact that you started with a disclaimer noting that this is how you see this. I also have my own. Nelson Mandela was a great freedom fighter, his efforts will live long after we are all gone. But he was not a great president. He went very soft on the very people who made the transition from apartheid to democracy difficult. Issues of land, economic growth and equality were not addressed properly. To me, those were very important issues. For that, I would have given Mandela an average rating. Thabo Mbeki swung from extremes. He was great as a decision maker and an economist who treated the country like a company. But like a company CEO who is more concerned about profits than the well-being of his employees he completely ignored his people. He was not sensitive to the issues that affected an ordinary man or woman on the street like HIV/Aids, housing, poverty and service delivery. For me he also deserves an average. Kgalema Motlanthe's tenure to me is not as glorious as you put it. One wonders what would have happened if he had addressed the Oilgate saga more actively and not tried to sweep it under the floor like he did when he had full knowledge that the ANC was siphoning monies through Sandi Majavu's company. His role in the Vusi Pikoli/ Jackie Selebi standoff was also disappointing and he showed lack of decision-making and backbone. One would commend his conciliatory approach as positive but looking in hindsight at the period he held power, strong decisions should have been made that would perhaps have changed the trajectory this country took. For that, I give Motlanthe an Eish. The moment you mentioned Jacob Zuma's name I already knew exactly what you were going to say and you did not disappoint me. Your body language had already preceded your analysis. It is the safe clever blacks stance that I have always heard by people who must first see what degree you have before they listen to you. You speak only when you have a certain model of a luxurious car. You are always starting from minus 100 fighting to get to zero before you can even start engaging them. Zuma does that to a lot of educated middle-class South Africans. I tend to look at the actions rather than the faces or the background. The HIV/Aids issue is gigantic because it involved people's lives. So is the catering at schools. The red tape that the whites had created in getting to become a service provider for the state and the previous presidents failed to remove meant that Zuma had to take a hard stance and risk being seen as corrupt, which eventually is what he was called. Unfortunately in trying to do that he also made the mistake of propelling the wrong people like the Guptas who used the opportunity for their own benefit. Then Zuma fell into a hole that he had meant to dig for someone else and could not come out of. His good intentions were contrasted by poor execution. His rattling of the West caused him enemies and we know how the economy was manipulated into showing him as the worst president this country had. Even though I personally did not like President Zuma but I would definitely give him a plus average as well for his efforts. The less I say about Ramaphosa, the better. I would have to copy and paste your analysis (even though you also failed to find enough words to make it an analysis!) Eish!
Mandela ayeye because he focused on National unity Thabo Mbeki belongs to a more than ayeye but disturbed by those who joined the struggle not to be poor he is still the greatest and I remain his biggest student who wishes to meet him someday
Dr. Sizwe, I believe you are spot on and I thank you for the content you creating for us. I also believe that with all the facts you have outlined, I think when it comes to Mr Zuma and the state capture we can park it until it is proven, other than that I believe the "System" as explained by Mr. Mcebo Dlamini(on one of your recent shows) was in play. I also believe the ranking you gave him is a bit low for his achievements.
@@babalontloko1680Expansion has that Zuma was the best leader in South Africa which Else statistics do u want? Please dnt be blinded by the hate of Zuma to limit the capacity of yo thinking.
Mbeki is the best by far. His macroeconomic policies and their impacts on the economy. The rand versus the dollar and petrol price. How he dealt with corruption. Zuma did well by increasing civil servants salaries and promoting black businesses thought it came with some level of corruption. The worst decision I hated about Zuma was the abolition of SCORPION 🦂 as a crime fighting organ of state. The decision led to uncontrollable criminal activities without punitive measures. Mbeki is the best and Ramaphoria the worst
It was in the Mbeki era that introduced the GEAR system when they were talking about globalization in which the textile industry which employed close to 800 000 people came to a grounding halt .It was white monopoly capital that benefited from this.South Africa was an emerging economy and we tried to bring in first world ideas while we weren't addressing the legacy of apartheid the inequalities in the economy.The easy route out was BEEE.Today we don't have the transfer of skills.Each person is tendering for govt . contracts.This is how corruption set in.White Monopoly Capital still dominate the S.A. economy.
Who remembers recession during the time of Mbeki? I saw a lot of black people selling their houses from suburbs moving to rural areas and back to townships? The jobs that were created were not beneficial for black people (people working for brokers)
Considering covid 19 and state capture, SA problems cannot be fixed in 2 years and this administration has fought hard to turn the Gupta's mess, unemployment, load shedding, Covid 19, and unnecessary pressure from opportunistic opposition
