Rant: The Orthodox "Deaconess" 

Unfortunately, this controversy has only given ammunition in online arguments between Orthobros and Cathobros; a match made in hell. False deaconesses and gay blessings, wow!

The modern deaconess proponents' publicly stated reasons was always a front. If you listen to what they said, they didn't care if the revived deaconess responsibilities had nothing in common with the historical deaconesses; they just wanted the name. Among reasons they said they wanted deaconesses was to confess to a woman (strange, since deacons cannot take confession). They said that this will open up good conversations about ordaining women to the priesthood. There are plenty of resources for Orthodox women to perform all of the ministries to women they said they wanted deaconesses for. The goal was never about ministering to women: it was always power and subversion. I am just grateful for their greed and haste; it would have been more prudent for them to stay quiet, ordain a few hundred or so deaconesses before showing their hand. Instead they immediately revealed their true colors as soon as they were given any concession.

its just an excuse to subvert the clergy. thats it. hardline NO! don’t allow yourselves to be tricked.

Deaconess is an extinct position in the eastern orthodox clergy. It is not equivalent to deacon and it’s primary purpose was to deliver communion to women in a state of undress or minister to women in a state of undress or sickness in general which male clergy would find improper to serve. Edit: I did not know of the ordination in Zimbabwe. But I guess I’m still right in saying it is an extinct position, as it seems she was ordained to the diaconate, and not as a deaconess.

Holy Synod of Alexandria is going to put a stop to this per last encyclical

Heresy won't prevail in the true church. Pray for our patriarchs and bishops, that they would be pillars of faith.

I was Ordained a Reader the same day this "Deaconess" was "Ordained". The Reader is an Explicitly Male Office in the Clerical Hierarchy. And is a Prerequisite for all the rest of the Clerical Ranks. So when was she made a Reader?

“Welcome to Orthodox Banter with Bojan…” my brain automatically added “hands.”

Historic deaconesses are more similar to abbesses and nuns.

As a nearly retired woman with no family, I would really like to do God's work through; being available to support in a Christ-centred way postpartum women, the elderly and housebound, and washing and laying out the dead when people die at home, even house cleaning if a parishoner finds it too much and has become overwhelmed with rubbish... if the body is the temple of the Holy Spirit, then this is the temple where I think women have a valuable role of service. I don't care what you call it, but there should be more of this and I do believe it is a role suited to women and one which should be officially sanctioned by the church. Do any other women feel the same? Will any Bishop support us! I am so tired of the Deaconess debate when there exists non liturgical but still deeply spiritually supportive work to be done!

Their primary function was to do with baptism and chrismation in female convents, because back then all baptisms were naked so you can imagine that would be a problem for a priest when it comes to women. Since adult baptisms are no longer naked, A “deaconess” would hold literally 0 function. The roles of charity a deaconess took part in historically nuns and basically anyone else already do and can do

Don’t be sorry about the “rant” Bojan, it was well said and I completely agree.

The descriptions I've heard of the ancient office of deaconess seem essentially the same as the modern office of Roman Catholic "active sisters," who make the same kinds of vows as nuns but play an active role ministering to the faithful outside of a convent or monastery.

Odličan video Bojane, da li si nekad razmišljao o tome da napraviš video o Patrijarhu Pavlu? Puno pozdrava 😊

It’s my understanding that deaconesses in the past were never ordained. They weren’t clergy. It was basically a really unique position because there was a need. An example would be a Warden I suppose. It appears to me there is no need for this position of deaconesses, and, given the current climate, will only cause more issues than solve them.

Hello Bojan! I was wondering if you could make a video on the difference between vestments in Traditions! Like how they're different in the Slavic, Greek, etc. Thank you!

Every parish already has a Presbytera and some parishes that have a Deacon also have a Diakonissa. You know this? These women can and do help other women with women issues.

I agree with you. The problem lies with two issues: 1) the impetus behind the return seems to be more fore gaining a foothold towards ordination of women than a real desire to bring back the original deaconess role 2) whole deaconesses were not to assist with liturgy and/or other sacramental roles unless there was a dire need (your statements) it appears there is an increasing need as the shortfall of deacons and priests here is over 400.

We want MORE of your rants!

This is schismatic by design and the desire of these people is of the world. I stand firmly against this.

I didn't actually know of any organizations that supported deaconesses, I'm just some random person who supports the idea purely cause I found it out on my own. I think it's a cool position in our tradition and I would like to see it revived, however I anticipated that this would get hijacked by bad actors sadly. If we are to bring it back we need to ultra emphasize that this isn't a female deacon. I'm probably gonna get roasted just for holding this opinion lol. But that's how I feel honestly, I think it could be helpful and good but under no circumstance should it ever be a "female deacon" that would defeat the entire purpose of it, subverting it's original traditional role. Why revive something for tradition if you will break the tradition, that's my view. Zimbabwe should be ashamed of this scandal.

We in the RC Church have the same issues with Fiducia Supplicans. SUPPOSEDLY a "couple" can request a blessing BUT the blessing can only then be given individually and may not in any instance appear to be a ceremony for the two as a couple. Francis himself has stated this publicly. However Francis' pro LGBT, BFF, Jesuit James Martin did exactly that with photos as proof and , surprise, surprise, Francis has not disciplined him. Touchy Fernandez who authored this bit of Gnostic nonsense, has said they will not go on a witch hunt for priests who do this, probably because the witch hunt they are on, driving traditional Catholic clergy and bishops from the ranks is so exhausting. There is nothing slyer and more sebaceous than modernists in the pursuit of their agenda. Of course they are delighted at what this heterodox metropolitan has done as they want deaconesses in our future also.

Yeah you're right. It's completely unnecessary, but at least tolerable to include special Church tasks for women and call them "deaconesses", especially when those tasks reproduce ancient traditions (assisting with female baptisms, management of the Church building, etc.) But making female deacons, who do what deacons do today is contrary to the holy orders which Christ Himself established through the apostles.

While this doesnt "debunk" Orthodoxy, it does go to show that no church is a utopia. It was only a matter of time before people jumping ship to Orthodoxy (especially from Catholicism) to escape liberalism would be sorely disappointed.

If we would revive the Deconesses like they were in ancient times, we should rename it to idk parish servant or whatever..

subscribed! There are times when women in crisis would definitely benefit from having an Orthodox woman to talk to. We already have abbesses and matushkas, but I don't understand why we can't send an older, pious lay woman to speak with women who need help, with the blessing of the priest, of course. I guess I don't understand why it has to be an ordained person.

Ancient faith today with Fr. Thomas Soroka has already covered this debate with a whole panel of Academic Priests, seminary professors and even Metropolitan Saba.

Hi Bojan! :) Ive recently watched a patristicnectarfilms videos about “the journey of the soul after death” and there the difference between the blessed state after death and the heaven was made. There it was said that we sort of ascend (or descend, depending on the life we lived) and grow closer to Christ but that we aren’t with Him per se, nor are we in Heaven but kind of climbing a ladder or between heaven and… some sort of undefined space by ourselves in closer proximity to Christ than during our earthly life? If the Saints are in this too instead of Heaven or Heavenly Jerusalem, do the saints “climb the ladder” so to speak as well and help us with their prayers during that state of kind of hanging mid air being between heaven and earth? Are the departed ascending in slowly towards Christ (movement wise)? This confuses me greatly. Do Christians not go to heaven/heavenly jerusalem after death? Or those who sadly didn’t, to Hades as a foretaste? I thought the Believers were awaiting the resurrection together in heaven. I know that heaven and hell are the way we experience God’s light and presence first and foremost, but isn’t it a place sort of as well? Don’t we need to be somewhere too and not just weirdly floating around in a sort of spirit realm. I know that we await the resurrection and the last judgment, and the remarrying of heaven and earth, where the heavenly Jerusalem will be brought to earth and the Lord makes the world anew. Living in God’s eternal Kingdom and in His direct presence, in communion with God and the Church, is the fullness of heaven. Sorry for this super long comment, it just causes a great deal of confusion and a bit of anxiety in me.

Yes! The diakonisa existed in the early church. We are truly being Orthodox Christians! Axia!

While I don’t think this debunks Eastern Orthodoxy by any means, I think it’s kind of telling that if some bishop in the Catholic Church did this Orthobros would be unrelenting about it. Nice video though 👍🏻

That’s precisely why we now have a normal Church in Africa - the Patriarchal Exarchate of Africa under the Patriarchate of Moscow. And this is why priests are fleeing Alexandria. The Greeks have completely lost it.

Hello Bojan, would you be willing to make a video about what to do if you agree with orthodoxy but there is no Orthodox Church near the place you live? Thank you!

The Fact is like it or not during the early Byzantine era Deaconesses were permitted into the Ieron - Sanctuary, and were assigned to Commune the women congregants.

All I can say is that here in the US, people are coming to Orthodoxy to escape "Christian innovation" and modernity in general. Western Christianity is in flames, not just but especially the Protestants. I just had my last catechumen class; did I come along just in time for Eastern Orthodoxy to fall to Westernization and ecumenism? Sigh... We spell Tradition with a Capital "T" for a reason. One innovation leads to another to another to another...

Next we will have to get used to a Lesbian Pope who takes the papal name of Sebastian I.

If it were the Latin Church, we would never say that a woman had been validly ordained no matter who had done it or what words were used - because the nature of the office is such that it is ontologically impossible to convey on a woman. We would only say that it was "attempted". These so-called female ordinations are only a kind of pantomime, a bit of public pseudo ecclesiastical theatre, and no sacramental action has genuinely taken place.

So now that a deaconess has been ordained (or blessed). Does she keep the position or will she be defrocked?

Lutheran here yeah it aint cool😂

"enemies of the Church"? Really? Who are you to tell? What if I say that you are an enemy of the Church? What then?

Plain and simple.. Heresy!!!

Rely on genuine Pauline letters for Pauline thought.

I see the denial of ordination to women is a denial of the fall’s reversal, a denial of the gospel itself.

Orthodoxy ordains sacramental deaconess before the Catholics. You canʼt make this stuff up xD