Remember: what you see in August 22nd is the effort of a company that does not want to put the same effort as Larian Studios did with Baldur’s Gate 3. They already admitted that and even went an extra mile by saying that you should not expect that to be the norm on game industry.
I was just playing baldurs in tactician as someone that hasn't even finished it yet with a random on multiplayer and we spent 10 hours + laughing our asses off and having a good time and we didn't even make it to level 4 yet lmao, the game has sooooo much its freaking insane, how good this shit is, i do quests, watching dialogues, cutscenes, telling myself how mmos dont have this level of goodness man, Larian really i think set a new bar for rpg and questing in general, this ppl outdone themselves, all the fucking acting is out the fucking roof good, you just sit there and enjoy every piece of the game without "wanting to rush to endgame" or some shit, game of the year, game of the decade for me which used to be RDR2 and that game was AWESOME
Na, lore, world building, aesthetics and the concept of the game are what are keeping it together. Just like Charlie said there’s so much potential in destiny but it’s ruined by bungie.
I started watching Cross for destiny stuff back in the day but I’ve seen how both he and his channel have grown since then. No matter what happens to destiny I’ll keep watching him cause I know he’ll make good content on whatever he decides to cover next
I'm LOVING that people outside the Destiny community are giving their thoughts and criticizing Bungie on there stupidity & lack of care for us fans. That state of the game was atrocious and only hurt are expectations for the future of this game.
Crown of Sorrow is still one of my favorite day one experiences, despite not completing it. Also, it was a pretty incredible feeling killing Taniks with a Witherhoard while we were six dead.
CoS was great because it was consistent. The enemies spawned the same way each time. This allowed you to feel like you could get better with repeated tries. New raids suck because there is too much randomness.
The real tragedy is that this game as the best core gameplay of all time, the movement feels fantastic, the gunplay is still unmatched, the art is beautiful. But all of it is wasted by poor developement choices and lack of meaningful content.
Vow of the disciple. Was SO close having the perfect formula. The day one experience slapped. And learning the raid after contest was still awesome. Root of nightmares felt like a 6 man dungeon outside of master and day one.
@@randomyoutubeviewer9685you can still be happy about Destiny while understanding that something needs to change. I’ve stopped playing and don’t have plans to come back while also understanding I have played this game for the last 9 years and has been a core pillar of my life and I respect it for being there when I needed some escapism. Other games are out there for us now, it’s okay for us to show that Bungie needs to change course and we can play these other games in the meantime
I watched you guys complete vow, I fell asleep shortly after you beat caretaker, (it was midnight/morn for me) woke up a few hours later and you were on the Rhulk and watched you for a few more hours after that, seeing you guys beat it was such a vibe
If moist is taking an interest, that says a lot. Bungie is gonna feel the community's pain unless they really get on board and go back to at least pretending they care
He was there for root of nightmares day one he's always geared up basically as much as content creators for the day one raids that I've seen him in so he actually does play the game. He streams the game of course his main channel does not promote gaming content really that much so you weren't going to see a vod
@cerebralassassin2185 Fair point, I was more so meaning that Charlie doesn't make much content around destiny, he's a real fan who's speaking from a somewhat outside perspective. Like his reaction is the everyman reaction given a voice. If that makes sense?
here's my theory: Root of Nightmares was originally supposed to be a dungeon we get this year. probably two seasons from now. the first, second, and last encounter are very connected to each other, the jumping puzzles were not as lengthy as a normal raid, but close to a dungeon. the encounters themselves had the same exact mechanic except for one... single... encounter. which is the planets room. the planets room was not supposed to be in the dungeon, when they decided to turn the dungeon to a raid because Lightfall was such a mess and had to be made asap they decided to add a new encounter to turn the usual 3-encounter dungeon to a 4-encounter raid. that's why it's the hardest room and why it's the best room and very exclusive to what happens in it in terms of boss type, and mechanics. i do truly believe this is why the raid flopped especially in the dungeon parts, because it's for 3 people, not 6. i think it's a 90% chance that I am correct since everything makes a lot of sense, on top of that that's why it's on a pyramid ship, not Neomuna. because Neomuna wasn't decided on in the making of the original Nezarec dungeon. that's why we awkwardly have two pyramid raids back to back for no reason, even though destiny raids are supposed to explore different depths of the universe (i said raids, not raid lairs).
doesn’t hold any water, look at the 2nd encounter right away, in no way designed for 3 people let alone for 1 person to solo it as intended with the lifts, same for nezerac how would it make sense to have 2 things going on at once be expected out a solo, on top of all this is expecting bungie to somehow be working on a dungeon as far in advance as you’re saying it was supposed to be and have it ready for lightfall
It’s honestly hard to say it, as I’ve been an avid Destiny player since Destiny 1 even released. But, I’m finally hitting that point of apathy. The state of the game really did it for me. It was the final straw that truly proved Bungie just doesn’t care about Destiny anymore. It’s on the back burner now for god knows how long. I’ll finish up with Final Shape, but I think Destiny is dead after that.
Why waste your money on TFS? You're basically rewarding their contempt for their player base and laziness. This is why the studio will never change. It's a cliche but voting with your wallet is the ONLY thing that will make that ship change course. The studio now runs on levels of greed that would make Activision blush.
@@TheSwayzeTrain I do understand that and I actively agree. I’ve never bought anything for silver, always waited for bright dust. But I’ve been on the ride for the past decade, I feel like I should see it through to the end.
Let's be honest: The Bungie that made Halo 1-3 are LONG GONE. When D1 was soon to come out the hype was real. In many eyes it had the potential to reach the heights of old school Halo but things didn't turn out exactly like that... Still I loved D1 as there wasn't really anything like it and at the time the game was getting better but all that hard work went back to square one with vanilla D2.
I think people really downplay how big destiny was and still is. Most of the famous streamers actually came from destiny 1. People tend to forget how popular a game series this is. It has a lot of problems atm and bungie needs to get their act together but it shouldn't downplay how big this game is/was.
Fact. All those OG devs have long since moved on to other things. Even if some of them are Frank O'Connor and basically driving modern day Halo into ruin. This current day Bungie is a shell of its former self. All corpo: No substance.
@@cerebralassassin2185That’s not true at all. Some of the biggest streamers play Destiny casually, but it’s not their main game. There’s a couple of big streamers that did main it (like Lupo and Kraftyy) but they blew up AFTER leaving Destiny for games like Fortnite and Apex because they had a much bigger and more stable audience. Destiny is popular in its genre but it has never carved out a slice of the mainstream market share since D2’s launch. Last time you could even make that argument was D1 when it was one of the top games on Twitch every weekend due to Trials.
Theres speculation that the success of forsaken and the 3 seasons that followed t was because of the other studios involved in the develpment of forsaken. It's just like turtle rock studios and back 4 blood, you could tell left 4 dead was all valve devs.
@@jujureference8535 it’s clearly the case. Vicarious Visions and High Moon made and helped with some of the best Destiny content we’ve seen to date. Bungie on their own simply can not match that spark.
The greatest bit of Stockholm syndrome that we’re experiencing is how thrilled we are when things come back. The derelict leviathan, pvp maps, d1 raids, do you know how excited we would be if they brought gambit prime back? Gambit freaking prime? We rejected it when it came out and complained about enemies shooting at our backs (iykyk) and now we’d piss ourselves to have it back! We’ve missed and longed for love for a game mode like gambit for so long that we would open arms to the thorn bush that pricked us years ago. Meanwhile, random people are putting together better custom game modes in Fortnite creative than Bungie has pumped out to us in years! I love the game, it’s been in my life for 7 years, but how did we get to a point where we feel so let down? Why is (in my opinion) our lowest low in the game occurring at the very end when everything should be excitement for the resolution? I just can’t make it make sense man
It's like sprinkling a little bit of crack on an addict and then saying comeback next week for even more then getting the same or even less. It's OK, it could be great, but at the end of the day they've shown they're just a business for the money and the minimum viable product is the best way to get it. This is supposed to cost $100 a year but I feel like I'm getting half my money's worth if even that
that final question is something i was trying to figure out myself for a good bit. now, i think the answer is pretty simple looking back on it, and the answer is that, while we are approaching the end of it all, the end to the light and dark saga, bungie isnt treating it that way. bungie isnt making it feel like the end, arent hyping it up outside of *oh hey its the end of the light and dark saga. instead, they are treating it as just another dlc, as just another step forward. especially with how they have talked about destiny continuing on after final shape, so it doesnt FEEL like the end to a story, merely a end to a chapter.
It's the don't over deliver method. We've been consistently let down, and now that expectations are so low, Bungie can impress the community with minimum effort.
Yooooooo what you said at 17:22 is so spot on!!! That’s how I used to find my raid teams I would fail all week may 2 weeks until I had that core group and then we just ran raids like a beast!!!!
Idk if it's possible, but in FF14 there are 2 versions of a Raid, the casual version and the "actual" version of the Raid. It's a nice way to have casual players experience the Raid without having to compromise on the challenge for the hardcore players. D2 could do something similar, at least for the so called finale of a saga.
This would be what I see as an ideal compromise, different strokes for different folks. I would like to experience raids but know I cannot compete on similar levels as some due to playing with only one functional hand. I get folks want that hardcore experience & hope they get that, but like then Im legit excluded most the time & gaming is still my passion so it blows. So a two difficulty system shouldn't be hard- Simply design the hard mode, then scale it back for easy mode. Also day 1 should likely be that hard mode, casual mode unlocks a little bit later, like few days or so. But that would be too ideal & too much "work" for bungie to give.
might be a hot take, but tbh i think it’s fine to have easier raids so long as there are also difficult ones still confirmed as being made. i think worse players should have content for them. honestly i would appreciate a “difficulty star” system in d2 similar to games like guilty gear strive with their characters. while definitely hard to work out on a technical side, you would be able to see what raids are more on your speed whether that’s 2 or 5 star difficulty and you can set expectations accordingly so no one’s insanely dissatisfied by learning the difficulty is too easy on the spot
There was a poll here on RU-vid by forcer, asking if people planned to buy the final shape. This was divided into no, undecided, yes deluxe, yes standard. I fully expected yes to standard as many just want to see the end at this point. But the majority went to yes and purchasing the deluxe…. All this uproar and the majority plan to still kiss away all their buying power in one whole swoop. Cause at that point if you have a complaint, or want things changed, or even if you left. it doesn’t matter. Cause they would already have got you to fork out for all that content ahead of time. Coming up is about to be your last time to ACTUALLY have an effect on destiny and to see a change with bungie. You’ll have to wait a whole ‘nother year to get that power back. Just remember that y’all.
Maybe the majority aren't whiner bitches like the streamers and a handful of others which suggests the game isn't in such a bad of a state as the streamers and whiners suggest. This is the problem with these opinionated streamers, they seem to believe their opinion counts for more than everyone elses and it's more valid but as you say, the vast majority will vote with their wallets and buy the deluxe version.
I also saw this and it made me sad. People need to actually show how they feel with their wallet and no one will. So many people want to see the finale through and that’s what Bungie knows. They are making more money off of your stupidity.
glad Charlie finally said something, that guy’s been playing Destiny 2 for a while in the background casually but he hits all these pain points on the head
Totally agree Cross. The problem is that there are too many players with money who won't "look inward, etc", don't want to fail, don't want to really have to work hard to get there. And so the finance types follow the money. Trying something difficult, working at it over and over, and finally suceeding is where I get my satisfaction even now at 74. It's not getting a hundred different weapons in a week from doing mindless activities. I think there just aren't enough who feel the same way for the money types.
Its people like you who understand us Soulsborne players. You know the satisfaction and relief after beating an encounter. With how good it feels to accomplish something that has been kicking your ass into the dirt for hours. When it just clicks. You feel like Neo from the Matrix and just go through what felt like an impossibility, and conquer the demons that stand in your way to victory.
Im newer to the souls genre with my first souls game being elden ring and i wish i could get that experience again for the first time i always felt rewarded for struggling for hours on a boss kicking my ass constantly to then understanding his movesets and sometimes using their weakness i always avoided souls games bc being stuck on a boss for hours didn’t seem appealing but i was wrong its been one of my favorite gaming experiences
I've beaten all the dark souls Elden ring etc multiple times and yes they're hard but they're the right kind of hard. The type of shit that fucks "teams" over in day ones is not having optimal DPS to kill a bullet sponge think caretaker. How is not having enough damage and failing a good metric for the success of a day one raid.
Thank you Cross (and the community) for not letting Bungie get away with their lazy mentality. Watching Datto defend Bungie for 3 hours on stream the other day was honestly depressing to watch. Criticizing the state of the game is the only thing that will make Bungie improve it unfortunately.
It was very much: people would comment complaints that everyone has (pvp neglect, Gambit neglect, dungeon pricing, lack of content, no overdelivering) and Datto would always say something along the lines of "Well, what else are they supposed to do?" He even sided with Bungie about over delivery being bad. He basically bent over backwards trying to make all the criticism of the community seem outlandish and invalid.
@@JackBob. Seems to me that Datto's given up on Destiny, just like how Bungie are done with this game too. He doesn't see the effort in trying, this game won't be what he wants so he's fine with Bungie's anti-core-player mentality. Truly he's been buck-broken by Bungie and socials, and it hurts to see. Don't wind up as a Datto; Always hold yourself and the things you enjoy to the highest standard, and don't let anyone try to change that or force you to change for their personal vision of what you love.
Datto’s definitely changed. Old Datto would definitely have been siding with everybody else. He’s the only content creator afraid of the backlash he might get from Bungie. Can’t watch his videos anymore because he’s so careful with everything he says toward Bungie, but he’ll rip into anybody criticizing the game.
Doing raids on contest with my clan is honestly an amazing feeling ron was the first time we ever completed a raid day 1 and made alot off good memories sometimes it's not to bad to have an easy raid every now and again but when me and my clan did Vow or kingsfall we did get stuck and tbh like I say to them "I don't care if we don't complete it I just like having a laugh and making memories "
@@richardbertrand9939almost all the raids do this to a degree though. From the theme of taking buffs from entities in the Oryx raid, to juggling the different buffs in the deep stone crypt. Even VoG has defending pylons /shooting oracles as a theme throughout.
Randomly getting this on the feed again after that spectacular TFS raid race makes me really happy a lot of people were vocal about how disappointed they were about Root of Nightmares and Lightfall as a whole. I can't say for certain if these had direct impact to TFS's quality but Bungie really cooked for the community.
I’ve always wondered about the lack of PvP modes. Not to compare apples to oranges, but halo had so many different ways to enjoy PvP multiplayer with several unique playlists, not to mention the player freedom with the sandbox elements of the game. Halo CE was the first video game I ever played, and that custom server browser was magical. I just wish Bungie would be as creative as they were previously.
The modern media just steals the names of IPs that you love and make their own slop out of it. This is how modern media operates. There probably isn't anyone important at Bungie anymore that was there when they were making life fun for you back in Halo or D1. The greedy nerds just stole the name Bungie, and are peddling what you think is the Destiny that brought you in, to you.
@@ShamanThroatWarblers Not even say, Bungie confirmed it themselves. Notices how they say "Due to the help of several teams we have been able to provide pvp support" or something along those lines meaning they don't have a dedicated pvp team, and probably haven't had one since Shadowkeep (that's debatable, I'm honestly not sure when but that's what I'm guessing).
It's pretty crazy when a few friends and I decided to try Root day 1 at 9pm at night, and we needed 2 more, so we messaged 2 random people in the tower and took them with us. It took us 4 hours, and it was my first attempt at day 1. And I've been around since the D1 beta as a PVP player.
Get an instant read thermometer. Smoke to temp (usually about 203F) instead of time. Then it's all about finding rubs and sauces you like. If you're using a pellet grill, use real hardwood pellets (Lumberjack brand is the classic, but there's a few others). Most pellets are predominantly wood for heat and not for flavor. Hope that helps some.
@@carswan21But Last Wish was in the time Bungie was tied to Activision, pretty much when they had more budget to deliver bigger content. As how things are now, I... Hardly believe the Final Shape Raid will manage to be on the same level as Last Wish, and if they follow the same example they went with RoN... Yeah, I just hope the story saves it.
@@MaskOfLimbo my guy I’m willing to bet between the hundreds of millions they make off eververse and the 3.6 billion they got from Sony they have as much if not a bigger budget than they did previously. They just have felt that they can’t get by giving less 🤷♂️ and it’s true. Bungie has he a lot of good will but they stretched to far with lightfall and now they’re paying for it.
@@adarkwind4712 True. I think the biggest thing with Activision is that they had no excuse or a way to bs their way out of not delivering BIG content. They have the cash and the team... But they don't want to "overdeliver". With Activision, even though it was also bad in the microtransactions side, they had an obligation to deliver big content. Screw it if it was overdelivering.
I think they can tie the conclusion of the light and darkness saga into the raid while also making it a hard raid AND also have everyone be able to experience it, because they have already done it with the witch queen... After the first teams cleared Rhulk it unlocked the preservation mission which was basically a quick and easy way of telling the more casual players what happened. They could very simply do the same thing with the final shapes raid, make it a very hard raid to complete and then let the people who complete it first get the ending conclusion and then after they clear it, it opens up a easy and short modified version of the raid with the conclusion for the casual players.
i think RON was a good entry level for a raid but shouldnt have been the standard, make raids have 3 difficulties with upgraded cosmetic rewards for higher difficulties and then everyone can have the cake they want
@TheSilentTiger89 im not saying raids shouldnt be challenging, if thats what you took from it then idk. But saying strikes is the answer is a bad take. Dungeons and gms are all well and good but the rewards for the higher difficulties are pretty meh, like why gms and master dungeons n raids dont have unique cosmetic armor is dumb as hell
@@TheSilentTiger89you say that as if raids were hard to begin with, the only "difficult" thing about them is the puzzles and mechanics. Destiny is a pretty easy game tbh, even gms aren't "hard" just spongy enemies with shields
@@emilianocastillejos1330 no I say it as it’s the most difficult content and most rewarding content in the game. This has nothing to do with other games. So saying that GMs and raids are not difficult is purely a personal opinion which has literally no use here.
Health Wealth and Prosperity to all viewers. LISTEN, the best “ content “ Bungie made in my opinion was back in the halo days when they had horde mode is Halo. Give us a big map related to current D2, give us cabal or what ever and allow us to see who can climb to the peak of peaks. Those days were fun and I can see a huge potential in incorporating this mode in D2.
Honestly, the best way to improve the Nezarec encounter is to increase the enemy density/difficulty and make Nezarec a threat while he chases you and your fireteam. Make him hyper-focus on whoever has his gaze, and if they die, he starts throwing everyone into the air until someone grabs his gaze again. Maybe when one side is complete, he starts his wipe mechanic, and everyone has to get the opposite refuge (so when Light side is done, everyone ges the Darkness refuge). Idk something to make his encounter better.
Literally I came back for witch queen and VoD was so hard took me multiple groups till I finally beat it and I felt so accomplished. I’m not that good I’d say I’m slightly above average been playing since d1 but I was never that hardcore yet I beat RoN first run through
Im hoping with Final Shape raid, they go the route of King's Fall or Last Wish. Let the raid be hard, even if its the true final finale, then have the cutscene release for all players the day after the raid is released.
Post day one completion the video goes out to everyone anyway. You don’t have to complete the raid to see the final scene. That’s how Ron and vow were. I feel like I remember them saying they wanted to use Ron as a chance to let up on difficulty because final shape was going to be harder.
There's nothing for me to compare in gaming, that feels like beating levels and full Raids Day-1 (or day 2,3 whatever) the way I and my fireteam always felt when we figured out each level and Raid on our own without any guides. It used to be some of the best times I've ever had in gaming!! But that's def gone after this last one.
the whole "destiny 2 is a PvE game" defeats the whole purpose of what destiny is Destiny is an MMO but it's build like a standard FPS game, which leads to confusion in balance and in fanbase
Man, Aztecross doing real talk with LFG day 1's and hand outs for raids feels so refreshing. I don't want to be toxic, but bungie diluted their holy grail of an endgame into a pitiful concoction. I really hope next raid can be redeemed.
I love Ron because it is more casual, but i can get the point of wanting that excruciating challenge. My very first raid was in leviathan with me and 5 other friends, 3 of which probably had a collective 25 hours in destiny. It took us 17 hours across 5 days to beat, and looking back it is by far my favorite raid experience to date
Frankly, if people want an excruciating challenge, they should make different difficulties for raids. FFXIV is a fantastic example of how to properly deal with it - the story can be passed playing regular difficulty. You want a higher challenge? Have Hard mode. Extreme mode. Savage mode. Unreal mode.
@@weeaboojones7713the problem is that it’s only available for a day. After that the raid becomes so mind numbly easy that it’s so much less fun to play. Rhulk can’t even one shot kick you after day 1.
@@buckledwheat6299 I agree it is a problem but at least for that day I has a very competitive elitist pve player have something. I don’t think it’s to much to ask for one day a year of hard content
I'm kind of weird in that I love doing LFG and teaching new groups faster/better techniques in raids. I find it fun when you join a group that's been stuck in an encounter for hours and see them succeed on the next try after teaching them tried and true tactics. In my experience, raid fail due to two issues. First is ego and second is poor teachers. Raid veterans should take time to LFG with a new group and remember what it's like to beat a raid with total strangers. If it wasn't for LFG, I would never have had the friendships I did in D1 and again now in D2.
I felt that "tryouts" speech so bad. Gotta keep the good ones and slowly make a squad. Luckily that's changed for me since the beginning of D2. My clan can clear every raid without worry and fuck around while we do it. I don't miss those LFG days 😂
Anyone that ever said Destiny was a PVE only game must have forgotten that the Destiny 1 Beta was ONLY PVP. That gameplay was what hot most of us hooked initially. It was just solid, fun, gameplay loops against other players.
People always forget that a large majority of D1 was carried by its pvp, especially during content droughts. Some of the biggest destiny 1 streamers were pvp focused. People would grind pve for better pvp rolls more than they would for pve.
It's because PvP is an endless source of content - you play against other living, breathing humans, every "encounter" is different from the last. It boggles my mind that some Destiny fanatics believe Destiny 2 would be better if PvP was deleted from the game, and Bungie could focus solely on delivering amazing PvE content, season after season. Absolute milk-take.
Tbh, I think the raid is fine for getting casual players into end game content. It wasn’t a bad raid. Not every raid needs to be a grindfest, beating your head into the table. I’ve never been the type to be into learning various type of mechanics all the time just for one singular raid. Sure they are meant to be challenging but as someone who’s never played Vow or ever beat it, I’ve never felt the need to do it. There’s just too many mechanics to learn for me. And that’s fine. Not every raid is for everyone.
@@ExpertPenguin once again, not every raid is for everyone. There shouldn’t be so many mechanics that you legit need to learn so many symbols to complete it all. Raids like VoG, Crota, LW, SoTP, DSC, GoS, RoN are relatively easy to work with. It doesn’t require a lot to make them work. But just understanding how certain mechanics are used through each encounter. But when you have raids like VoW, you’re putting players into a position to remember various things that not many can always do.
4:28 All I ever want out of the PvP sandbox is everything about Destiny 1 balancing aka time to kill/almost everything (taken king era) with Destiny 1 Rise of Iron auto rifle balancing and Destiny 2 aka todays special ammo economy and ability cooldowns being on seperate cooldowns that’s balanced to the power of the ability.
If the community wants to ensure that the Final Shape raid is nothing like Root of Nightmares, you need to start posting your raid stories on social media. That story Cross told about beating Rhulk at 6 in the morning on his birthday? THAT is the kind of social media post that could start a huge thread of amazing stories that tons of people have, and hopefully let the developers see what a true challenging raid means to the community.
The way the raid difficultly is going is a direct reflection of the way society is as a whole. It’s not a hot take to say, everyone wants a trophy without the work. People want instant gratification without the effort. People have short attention spans, ie, can’t sit down to read a book, or even watch a video longer than 15 seconds. And the take about LFG composition is exactly how it’s done. I found my first LFG team vía the companion ap for vault of glass, and most of us are still friends till this day. When a new raid drops, we post in discord, saying what we’re looking for. While it’s difficult finding a team that balances talent/ego, some people make the cut, some don’t. Sometimes their personality is just as important as their skills, when we’re talking about having to communicate (in detail) with someone for literally 24+ hours.
Everyone can experience it even if the raid is crazy hard. By either of the following: - watching someone else get crapped on through a livestream when they can. - wait for a tutorial video to come out if they don’t have the time to figure the raid out themselves - Do the raid day one and get crapped on for hours. - or watch a summary video Problem solved
@@ruska9773if you’re doing a contest raid and you haven’t played enough to get max light, and you aren’t using the strongest tools available to you, that’s your problem.
@@ruska9773 In no other MMO do casual players expect to complete a raid without being prepared at all. It should be no different, if you're trying to do a destiny raid you should be prepared, on DAY ONE nonetheless.
@@ruska9773 The most recent raid is the easiest d2 raid so you don't need anything special. Back in the Crota days of D1, it's always been like that (gjallarhorn or boot)
Hmmm, there’s definitely a split in the community on raid difficulties, I think they should probably just keep difficulties consistent by set level. Should be like the customizable difficulties for strikes, those just shouldn’t be available until contest mode is over.
If raids are going to have important story content (which Final Shape's raid absolutely will be having), they probably should be more widely accessible. Having difficulty levels that cater to the extreme masochists that make up traditional raid parties and to more casual players who just want to get the full story without having to fire up Byf and Myelin videos would be a nice compromise.
He was there for root of nightmares day one he's always geared up basically as much as content creators for the day one raids that I've seen him in so he actually does play the game for you dummies who don't know that he does.
Hard raids are cool but easy raid doesn’t NOT equal bad raid… challenge is great but majority of the playerbase will not keep replaying a super challenging raid over and over, even hardcore players don’t enjoy playing the master versions of raids all the time (which is partially because of the reward) but it doesn’t matter because if we are talking about a harder base raid then base rewards still wouldn’t be as good as master mode anyways… VotD was hard and very long and anybody who plays with lfgs knows that people will just keep leaving on harder parts, RoN on the other hand has a great lfg experience, people have fun laugh and chill while actually getting through its AND NOBODY complains about teaching new players… Ron is great and people just complain WAAAYYY too much… its like a snowball effect with this community, one minor complaint and boom everyone in the community has something negative to say… thats so annoying man cus i used to be proud about how good the Destiny community was overall, its just toxic now😕
I don't think there's one SUPER challenging raid, let alone a raid that the community hasn't repeated over and over again. Not to mention the problem stated wasn't just "the raid is too easy" but also that the raid was boring because it repeated the same mechanics. The LFG experience argument you are making is relatively valid but the LFG experience is so objective I can't just flat out agree. I've heard so many complaints about the RON Lfg experience for various different reasons so I don't think I'd be able to ever use LFG as evidence that a raid is good. Finally my own personal take on why at least the DAY ONE experience for RON was not up to par with any other raid. My clan managed to carry one of our clanmates through while they were under light without them having to learn a single mechanic and without them being a handicap in final dps. The fact that ON CONTEST MODE people were attempting 3mans is absurd. Raids on their own are meant to be challenging content that not every player experiences and the window for Contest raids is even higher so the fact that anyone was capable of doing the day one is why (at least I personally) don't think RONs day one experience was great. I also believe that the difficulty and uninspired repetition of mechanics makes it my least enjoyable raid to do over and over again. I can't speak for everyone but that's at least my take if you want to read and try and see the argument from a different perspective.
@@beans314 i think what you said is definitely valid especially the contest mode part, very understandable but still its a very fun, beautiful and lore rich raid so as a whole it provides interesting pieces to the story and a great addition to the game itself… there is really no reason to be so hooked up on something that isn’t that bad, its a raid most likely made with new players in mind mechanically yes but where is all the crota hate then??? At most its a meme being called a strike but other than that there is no hate at all… RoN is SIGNIFICANTLY better and it doesn’t deserve all this negative feedback honestly
@@MoreKami Ahhh definitely can't deny the lore is very nice. Nezarac is an amazing character to have brought, which is slightly part of the reason why it's disappointing that he's a bit easy and looks the same as tormentors. But I can't lie you're right the raid looks incredible and has great lore. As for Crota, Crota gets its fair share of hate as it's always called a glorified strike/dungeon but I think the fact that it's not a D2 raid with the new D2 raid standards saves it from being completely hated. I mean Crota is only the second raid. But if or when Crota comes back, if it's still just as easy as it was in D1 and the day one gets completed in (idk) two hours. It will get the same hate
New players can be carried in RoN without learning any mechanics. That’s what makes it so easy to LFG. You just need 2 people that know what they’re doing and that’s it. It’s a little separate from actual raid difficulty. Imagine if runners were randomly assigned every phase in 2nd and 4th encounters. This raid would be an LFG nightmare, despite technically being the same easy raid. This is singularly what makes VotD, Atheon, Queenswalk, etc comparatively harder to LFG. Day 1 RoN could have been much harder without impacting the normal-version LFG experience much. Subtract 10-25 seconds from every single running phase in encounters 1, 2, 4. Give each boss +30% hp or so. These simple changes would have decimated the number of day 1 clears, while making the raid only marginally harder to LFG normally. At the same time, forcing random runners would have barely made a dent on world’s first time, while decimating LFG runs for months to come.
@@Megatherium yes and if you’re saying just those few changes would make the raid that much better dont you think the bungie employees probably made this raid so easy on purpose, i mean think about it, they have been making amazing raids for years in D2 alone and this time people actually think bungie was “too lazy” to make mechanics for 4/6 of the players… no it was very purposeful, they made this raid so easy on purpose so that new players and lfg players could have a better experience you know what i mean… even tho lfg is subjective, ive still had the best raid experiences in RoN
I think putting anything story wise in a raid is a odd choice, raids are for the very endgame and hardcore players, the new raid will probably be the easiest one yet just because of the story implications so anyone will be able to see it
Yeah, no. Having story in the raid gives a reason to play it for the narrative focus players. That doesn't mean it needs to be integral, and tbf the cutscene that plays after world's first actually just sums up raid story
mf have you heard of Oryx?? the big bad of the story at the time, and you had to play the raid to actually kill him. what is this bullshit you're on about, Aksis, Oryx, Crota, RIVEN? cmon now
@@aidenfanucci9523 I never said they shouldn't do it or that they didn't do it I said it was a odd choice to me, my point was after the post saying the narrative to the new raid was a big part of the story was that they will probably make it the easiest raid to date so more people can actually do the raid
@@theslimeboitm I didnt say they didn't do it or shouldn't I said that it was a odd choice to me, most casual players don't actually complete raids, my point was I feel like they're going to make it the easiest one ever so more players can experience it.
I do love clearing a raid with lfg teams. It can happen. Ive done it with DSC, Kings Fall (D1), last wish (to be fair, half the team was lfg, half was clan), i love that feeling.
i know it comes from anger, and i feel it... but i will never forget the angry father stare from Aztecross as he tells me raids are where enemys Quote "put there balls on your face" love the content, keep it up.
I pretty much only did raids with my clan, but after lightfall came out a lot of them stopped playing, so ive started using LFG and I don't think I will ever find people like my old friends. (ofc ikr)
The worst memory I had on my RON day one was we didn't have much clues on completing nezarec, and while trying to follow what the WF team did, no one knew they cheesed the refugee part, not even them, and we struggled a few hours until we noticed the refugee strat and completed the raid.
They should do it similar how they did it in D1 with taken king, how they defeated him in the campaign and got the climatic ending of the expansion but he came back stronger in the raid and still made the raid both enjoyable and challenging
It is highly unlikely, but I am holding out hope that Lightfall was the little half step shuffle taken to set up a monster 2 hand dunk that ignites the team and the crowd at the end of the game.
I really enjoyed day one crotas end (D1), but we didnt complete it. Part of it was the time it actually dropped, which was like 4am central if I remember. But there was one point in time when my team was ahead of several streamers and that felt awesome. We couldn't figure out the encounter directly before crota before all of us just fizzled out. It was like 7 hours by the time i called it. But i can see why people love that feeling.
How do people not understand that BUNGIE is an all inclusive game studio? BUNGIE is not about being elite and better than.. BUNGIE wants everyone equal.. It’s that easy guys..
The don’t over deliver method till it under delivers so much that it circles back around so when “normal” amounts of content is delivered to’s considered over delivering
Special ammo crates like in D1, special ammo spawns at 130 and heavy every 3 mins. My favorite meta, there is already so many one shot abilities, this gives you the best of both worlds.
could you imagine a raid that like 10 teams in the world beat? The amount of nostalgia for being one of those teams and getting something exclusive would be crazy
18:32 this exactly what I do. But my candidate selection process is different. I pick players entirely based on their ability to cooperate and be patient. Any grown adult (I do not play with squeakers) can learn a raid encounter. What differs is the length of time required to learn the encounter. So when I’m going through LFG looking for people to add I look for nice people that I enjoy playing video game with. I do not add people that scream at complete strangers or have no idea how to be patient or how to take personal accountability. I teach those folks the shape of Italy and we are LF 1 after that. So if you keep bouncing from team to team and you never sue and you know the mechanics just know that everyone thinks you’re a toxic piece of human garbage with too much time on your hands and not a care in the world. Because if you care that much about D2 you need a priority adjustment… big time. And Cross, don’t ever blow your mom off to play a video game. I know it seems like a good idea in the moment, but she won’t be here forever and you only get one mom.
I remember my vow of the disciple run. My initial team gave up after second encounter. They didnt want to do it any more. So I looked for another team. Eventually they gave up too. I went through 4 different teams. But that 4th team... By god did we have a bond that was forged. That raid took us 60 hours. SIX ZERO hours in the competition mode where I held the instance hostage by not logging out after the 48 mark. And WE BEAT RULK. That had to be the biggest high of my life. And I didn't even care I got the emblem, I just proudly declared us "World's Last". Then came Root of Nighmares. I found a team months in advance. Got as raid ready as I could ever be. Spent so much time doing this. Only to see how easy this raid was. YOU KNOW WHAT SUCKS EVEN WORSE? I watched a friend of mine who had not played the game for an entire year get on the week before the raid. Find a last minute team and then beat it in the 6th hour whilst my team got stuck till the 12th hour. The day 1 did not feel like I earned it. I felt defeated rather than happy I completed it.
