One thing I think you got wrong was that the Panzerfaust wasn't used in the battle of Kursk. It was first issued in September of 1943 about 1 month after the battle.
you could say that the realism in this movie is real.. because people makes mistakes and don't always falls back to their training strictly.. and that's how people died as a results. War is chaotic.
No not really exactly. those mistakes would only be made by an untrained soldier. Like, a machine gunner’s task is mainly to provide suppressing fire, in the beginning of the fragment you didn’t even notice that he was there. If a soldiers has the proper training and is battle hardened they won’t make such mistakes.
@@adnanekhatouti8154 you clearly forget battle stress exists, when bullets and bombs are going off near you, you’ll almost certainly fuck up unless you are the most hardened soldier in your group
@@Pyotr-j7e Tbh most of the stuff historylegends react to boil down to the lad simply thinking that war is like a chess game, from point A to point B, not realizing that point A barely exists and point B is a malestorm of shite where death, suffering and madness lurk.
@@dobridjordje I think in this particular case its you who dont know what you are talking about. Speak to veterans or watch interviews with them, the ones who went through hell like that and came out alive. You live and breathe tactics in warfare. Its literally your life, especially for hardened veterans. You dont wake up one day and forget the basics because you have been doing it day in and day out. Thats also one of the main reason why veterans find it difficult to adept with civilian life after the war is over. You have been living a life that is so drastically different to normal that you dont even remember the ''normal''. Every soldier has a specific job that is not all that complicated, just dangerous. Once you have done it for YEARS you do not forget it because of battle fatique or what ever else you are thinking of. Yes, individuals can lose their marbles at some point but, this is not what we've been shown here and your comrades would recognize it immediately if you took a dive into coocoo land! Besides, things like ''rookie mistakes'' will be sorted out quite early. Either you die right then and there or your comrades will ''teach you'' the hard way as you become hazardous to their health. In either case, problem solved!
Hip-firing an MG42 is possible (you can find videos of people doing it) but it was not common practice; no one was trained to use it that way. Someone might do that in a moment of desperation but not likely in the scenario that's depicted in the show.
Wouldn't this be the scenario to do it? The MG gunner was clearly moving between positions when suddenly a Soviet began firing down, and the MG gunner can see the enemy from his position but he cannot deploy at all, so he just fired his weapon to kill the enemy from the only spot he could at the time. To immediately stop the threat. It wasn't as though this MG gunner was running around hip firing into a building, he just happened to be where he was when the opportunity to fire presented itself.
It looks like the video that you're watching cut out the aftermath of the first german retreat. In the episode, the germans go back to friendly lines before being ordered to attack again, so it makes sense that they now have a machine gun and the soviets don't have the tank anymore.
The remark about hiding behind the car is a 50/50 kind of thing of being better than nothing plus you got to keep in mind that 1930-40s cars where built with real steel not like todays flimsy plastic steel of cars that we are stuck with now.
Also, he was trying to move to a better piece of cover than the car, but the Soviets started putting fire on him. I'd rather have a car to hide behind than no cover at all. Regarding the build material, yes, cars were much stronger than they are today, but that doesn't make much of a difference. The designers still did everything they could to cut down on weight, so the metal is still very thin. When Kalashnikov tested bullet penetration through cars, firing at a Lada, a car known for being able to take a lot of punishment, everything that wasn't a pistol caliber cut right through, and 7.62x54, as most of the Russians here would have, would have no problem
Good reaction. As for the make up of the platoon, they even got it wrong. A German platoon by 1943 was made up of: 1 Officer (usually a Leutnant tho by 1943 some platoons were lead by Unteroffizier’s - Senior Sergeants) 1 Senior Sergeant (however due to casualties not all units had these or those had been promoted to platoon leaders) 3 Squads 1 Corporal (Obergefreiter) MG Team MG42/34 + 3 Crew (Gunner, Loader, Ammo Bearer/Rifleman) Rifle Team 6 Riflemen (By the time of 1943 due to attrition many platoons by this stage actually had to drop a member of their platoons. So most squads only had 5 riflemen (not including ammo bearer or loader) instead of the normal 6. Another thing was squads of this time may have saw another member of the unit assigned a MP40 for building fighting or because the increase in junior nco’s to help with squad command/casualty replacement - again due to casualties they’d find a lot of units having multiple junior NCOs in them due to having been folded in from other platoons/mangled units, so while a squad may have 1 acting squad leader, it could sometimes have junior squad leaders tho seniority went to the acting squad leader of said squad first then the most senior by time if the primary squad leader was wounded or killed. Also by this point, German units would likely have had a panzershreck team with 2 operators for tank hunting - tho depending on the situation some tank Hunter teams were equipped with multiple panzerfaust instead of panzershrecks due to ammo shortage or because of the urban environments - can’t shoot a panzershreck in an enclosed position. So if at full strength the platoon would be at 34 men. 1 Officer 4-5 NCOs 28-29 rankers (Reason for discrepancy is that the panzershreck team could be commanded by a junior nco) However, by this time most would be reduced to. 1 Officer or senior NCO commanding (both if lucky) 3 junior NCOs 26 rankers So 29 total. While not a major drop from above it was still quite felt losing 5 men per platoon - and that was if the platoon was at combat strength for the time. Most might have been reduced under this with potential squads having less men. As for the tactics you are correct. The MG would always be positioned in an area to cover and the riflemen would usually send a team forward - the size of team depended on the unit leader and training. Jäger units were know for small scout teams of 2-3 men and veteran German units would usually deploy 2-3 men forward. However, training did note that to forward scout the deployment of an entire team would be effective - I.e. deploy forward your riflemen with the cover of your MG42/34. Why? Well it meant 2 thing. 1. Your riflemen (sometimes accompanied by a junior nco or senior private with a MP40) would all be together and able to lay down an effective fire to support one another in a situation where 2 riflemen would be overwhelmed - the idea being that the riflemen lay down a fire/exchange fire enough to delay/suppress the enemy until the MG gets into a reworked position to cover. 2. It kept tactics simple. And yes while the German infantry training was the same, the replacements coming in were usually young and inexperienced (I.e. yet to see the elephant). As such many squad leaders preferred to keep tactics simple and these inexperienced soldiers grouped together as to provide a higher quality of reassurance and morale, where if sending two new riflemen with even a experienced soldier it could lead to the two inexperienced soldiers quickly breaking under pressure. As such having the full knowing that all your friends are with you as well as your squad leader/an experienced leader with your team you’d be more confident and willing to fight. Once the elephant was saw and there young men became veterans themselves slowly the tactics of the unit would advance/learn too - as people begin to bond and learn one another’s abilities (again all good sending out two scouts, but when one of them is a cluts/the loudest bastard ever, then you find his ability to scout… fatal.)
A few things to note: 1. With regards to the “disappearance” of the tank and the change in the number of Soviet troops, the platoon pulled back to its starting position after the tank appeared, and when the video you were reacting to cuts, it’s now the next day, and they’re in a different part of the town. The video skips an additional scene in the episode. 2. Panzerfausts first came into service in August 1943, while the Battle of Kursk took place in July. Personally, I think the set-up would have been a good opportunity to demonstrate the use of rifle grenades (which are quite underrepresented in media about the World Wars). Other than that, I think your analysis was spot on. Great job!
19:45 It doesn't have to make sense, because (from his point of view) he saw his brother Wilhelm being killed and in a sadness and anger he kinda lost his cool and went on a frenzy. Luckily it was just a flesh wound.
Also, as to why the Russian machine gun wasn't visible, there's one possible explanation: They possibly didn't set the machine gun on the window sill, but further behind for concealment. Which does make sense since we can't see anything because of the shadows. Also, you would be surprised at how sturdy cars can be. If you're taking cover behind the engine block chances are you'll be safe.
The grenade exploding the walls is absolutely doable. It's an MG nest at that point of time and possibly with the gunner were crates and crates of ammo and if the grenade hits some of the ammo boxes, it starts a chain detonation and could potentially blow up walls and stuff. Besides, all we see is the MG gunner up there and we wouldn't know if he has grenades or even other weaponry up there. You also said "The nade was bouncing off the wall" but that's just camera angle. From that angle, it CAN still go into the window hole and still detonate inside. It's just that the camera angle shot like that would trick people into thinking it would miss.
About grenades, this is one area I think Band of Brothers really seemed to get correct (mostly). Episode 2 shows us a bit of trench warfare with the taking of the Brecourt battery. We see a couple potato mashers go off and they don't have this massive fireball, but a small explosion and the dirt flew everywhere. The shit portrayed in many movies, as stated here, is merely cinematic BS. Reminds me of the Hacksaw Ridge video on this channel where the American throws that pack in, massive explosive, and the comment (which made me laugh) about "mini nukes" in American soldiers backpacks. Same idea, except this time, only a German grenade LOL. Keep up the good work man!
You forgot the infinite ammo of the MP40 charge in the end. Check when he is finished shooting. 32 shots are gone fast. He has like 90 shots in his MP40. I think it is true the tactics are poor but the majority of the people watching it wont recognize that they are poor. In fact they don't have the time to think about this when watching the movie. I personally can forgive those let downs in the combat szenes. Simply because the series is still better quality then the average stuff done by hollywood and we've all seen it worse already right?
yeah most people watched it for the story and not for the action. even my female friends who usually don't like watching war movies watched this and even cried.
My take on the bad tactics is Winter's platoon got reinforced earlier in the episode with young bucks right out of boot. By 43 the quality of German soldiers was dropping noticeably so the lackluster performance makes some sense.
@@Lonovavir Also, by this point, most of the men in his platoon showed a pretty clear disdain for the German high command. It's entirely believable that, after suffering such high casualties for the last 2 years, they might be less willing to default to their training, even if that is the better thing to do
'Why is he in a building' Because you are better providing suppressive fire from cover and/or concealment. He may have been moving into the building to get cover and/or concealment.
16:40 Panzerfaust were available for German soldiers since 1943 you right, but the first pieces of this wepon got to the front in September this year the time when battle of Kursk had already been ended, so there was no way they could use it in that scene.
This guy is really annoying imo, he has barley any more knowledge on ww2 than your average war thunder player and uses anecdotal photos to back up his points. A lot of his complaints are einter completely invalid or have to do with movie production errors and not historical ones
@@stevenblack7928 The guy pretty bad when it comes to weapon's handling. For example the MG-42 does have a section on firing the MG-34/42 unsupported (hip-fire). In fact those same procedures were carried over to the MG3. Also he failed to point out the MP-40 has a mag well grip, you can clearly see it at 12:30. Although the fact the stock was folded would prevent you from having a proper grip. To the point you may accidently hit the magazine release, right below the grip.
As popular as it was to hold the MP-40 by the magazine, it would always cause malfunctions Proper way to hold it is from its magwell, where you insert the magazine.
7:34 The Explosion of the steilhandgranate was exaggerated (with flames, the explosive shock were ok ). steilhandgranate were shock and awe bombs designed for German offensive maneuver style fighting , just as their modern equivalent though less deadly stun grenades do. The concept was to create an explosion over a small radius and stun the enemy (whether they got killed by it or not ) and let the infantry surround them and finish the job . two things for sure , they weren't fragmenting types and they weren't incendiary types.
I'd say the best way to hold an MP40 is by the magazine well (the slot the magazine goes into), not the magazine itself. And you're right, holding a submachine gun by the magazine is asking for malfunctions. It was the same with the British Sten gun, which truly did not have a "correct" way of holding it.
I'm also surprised he didn't point out the stock wasn't deploy at 12:30. In regards to the mag well, it's pretty obvious that's the grip. Yet somehow people ignore the fact it clearly has texture stamped into it. Nor do you see the barrel rest ever used, it's the "hook" below the barrel. It's used to fire out of vehicle firing port and loop holes. The latter being you break a hole into a wall and use it ambush/defend, during urban combat.
@@KSmithwick1989 It has strengthening on it, but no texture. The official place to hold it is the bakelite grid (which IS textured) behind the magazine. You do see it being used that way, but not that often. They were told to deploy the stock, though, whenever possible.
Sorry but what you are saying that they should have used a panzerfaust to destroy that mg position shows the Lack of knowledge you posses and panzerfaust where anti tank weapons
the scence when he trows his handstilgrenade into the mg station.the explosion was realistic because when the grenade explode and he hits th munition reserve or the grenade cheast of the soviet squad then this explosion is very realistic.
Something you missed when the T-34/85 was attacking was how tight the space was between the two squads of soviet defenders and the T-34 was just instantly facing the direction of the counter attack. There is just no way it could turn itself that quick and also not damage anything in making the attempt, plus any good crew would not have done that. It would have just fired its coaxial 7.62 machine gun for support between shots. But I am very impressed by your knowledge of combat tactics and structure. You are almost literally the first person I found who actually knows what he is talking about. Except for the panzerfaust, that did seem to me like you were off on that, but the implementation of that weapon and the battle of kursk was admittedly very close.
As someone who owns a mp40 i find it easier to hold it by the top part above the magazine, its a little more awkward that way but it causes it to jam less. Plus its harder to accidently brake the magazine.
I can speak out of personal experience but close combat battles are not logic it is chaos scary panic thinks do not make sense but clearly you think about it as a video game
well... since you keep asking where's the T-34... as far as I remember, it's a 2 different day. after the scene with the tank, the next scene goes into the night where Company commander (Lt Wilhelm superior, since he's just a platoon leader) send a messenger to inform Wilhelm about current situation, and still command him to finish his mission anyway (capture telegraph office or something), which make Wilhelm even more stressed. therefore, chances are Wilhelm took different route to avoid said tank to get to his objective. that's why that tank is out of picture. about Soviet MG's, it's possible to be concealed in shade. that's why it's unseen if it's not firing. and also why that man who throw grenade is not fired upon despite the fact he's still quite some distance from the MG's. simply because said MG's is way too far from the window to shoot what's close in order to remain concealed. also possibly why no scout ahead. everyone thought that area was safe. only until they realize it's not they send scout first. but this is just me stretching things.
Love the review... great analysis. And that you can understand the German dialogue is impressive. Did you call the Soviets at 14:45 Gopniks? The only other time I've heard that term is from Harold Baldr on Bald and Bankrupt. Seems he uses it to descrbe young, somewhat disaffected Russians in his travels around Russia.
When I served the german Bundeswehr, we had the MG3, a very calmed down version of the MG42! Even this weapon had such a recoil, you could not hit anything with hip-firing! We have been told, never to try that: Movie shit, they said!
The way they fire the MP40's in this show is so weird haha. The stocks are never unfolded and they just spray them everywhere. The actors needed better training.
By 1943 jackboots were pretty much no longer being issued. Although you can see photos of troops still with jackboots, many were issued with short boots and gaiters instead by this point, which is also evident in photographs. The quality of late issue jackboots was poor and they didn't last that long.
the German army issued low lace-up boots due to leather shortages. the type of low boots "brodekin" they are wearing are of the correct type. i own 2 pairs of the original boots that are in my collection.
From seeing the movie from this video, I think at 15:40 it was showing a different section of the battle, where the Squad or a different portion of german forces were already holding, I say this because of the difference of background changes
Can we take a moment to reflect on how when he tossed that frag he pulled it out in one shot and tossed it in another without taking the time to uncap and pull the chord igniting the charge? That frag shouldn't had went up. But in the defense of the "big booms" both frags landed on MG positions which would produce a lot of cookoff which they probably misconstrued as a big "boom" and not a lot of little bangs. lol
The way manuals told soldiers to grab the MP40 was one hand on the pistol grip and the other holding the beginning of the barrel slightly resting a part of your hand on the magwell, kind of like some modern grips Still, you could grab it by the magwell and it would be fine, and that was the most common way used.
Wasn't that after the scene where Wilhelm lost all motivation and Friedhelm hat do remind him of his duties as an officer? Maybe Wilhelm is demoralized. Also, maybe they didn't scout properly at the first corner, because they were walking through an area they deemed safe or because they had been walking through the city for a while and had become more lax about scouting. Maybe he didn't need to check the ammo of the mp because he knew that the guy had just reloaded. Maybe the tank that other places to be and just took a shot to give his troops an advantage while passing by.
About Maxim gun in the window - realistically many RKKA soldiers knew how big and hard to hide their MGs. So they used this tactic - chose position, check angles, prepare sturdy place where to put MG and hide it below under line of sight. Then, when enemy will recon this are they will not see MG but when MG crew will see enemies in firing range - here we go! Grab Maxim and put it into his place right before opening fire.
I had a chance to hold an mp 40 not fire it. I grabbed it by the mag well and felt perfect for it. I would say that with any weapon you would not want to hold it by the magazine itself.
On the grenade there is an 'amusing' clip of a US soldier in Europe in WW2 throwing a grenade at a window with a cross-shaped frame (multiple panes) and it bounces off the centre of the frame and everyone runs for cover. Seemingly no one was injured, so it might have been an offensive grenade (the USA did use them in WW2).
This mini series tried to do many things right, but in the end its still a miniseries/movie so there will be inaccurasies. Its really hard to capture ww2 perfectly on film.
12:56 holding the mp 40 at the mag also can lead you accidentally to drop the mag and you can even hurt or cut your hand if you are not wearing gloves also the folding stock is folded during an assault which is weird cuz any sane person wouldn't do that especially a soldier he supposed to unfold the stock and put his hand behind mag where is hand guard located and use the stock to control the gun better with correct use mp 40 is awesome to shoot cuz the recoil is very controllable and slow rate of fire makes it very accurate with little bursts you can land close three hits every time it is a very good machine
I don't like the MP-40's being fired with a hand on the magazine, holding the magwell is better. I do like the more accurate ratio of K98's to MP-40's though. Too many films have every other German soldier carrying an MP-40 when there were ten or so K98s per MP-40. So a mixed bag.
The T34-85 had one HE granade, or what? The tank would score them all within minutes. And the soviet officer and his infantry would show the tank where to fire.
I think the point you brought up of them being ilequipped by the lack of their own Panzefuast can be explained by the 1st scene where they state they are worn and in need of reinforcement. Maybe they had already expended theirs. I will have to go watch this movie now, cinematically i think it looks great with the uniforms and weapons Soviet and German.
at 12:22 you asked how you were supposed to hold the mp40 if you look at the picture you can see 4 stripes they were supposed to place your fingers on top of each stripe and there phone should be placed on the side of the gun
Note that at 15:45 it cuts to the mg firing, but in the series there is other scenes taking place in-between the tank and the new scene. They fall back and regroup and then head back to try again. Hence the tank disappearing as well as the Russian counter attack disappearing. I suspect you may have watched a video that only summarizes the action, rather than watching the entire episode and only recording your reaction for the fight scenes. It is not a big mistake, I just think that if you had watched the actual series and not just an "action highlights" you would not have mentioned the above. You mention that it is an obvious movie mistake, but I think it is the video you were watching rather than the creators. You also say that the guys look like they are inexperienced, if you had watched the series you would have noted that most of the platoon at this stage WAS only raw conscripts and recruits sent to rebuild the platoon in the scenes just prior to the battle starting. They make a whole point of the few veterans and officers complaining amongst shared meals about the recruits only getting younger and younger and more fanatical. I don't want to sound too critical, but I really think you did not research this beforehand or maybe watched it too long ago to remember and just recently watched this highlight of the fighting scene. I really liked the analysis and agree with most of what you said, but I think you missed some crucial points due to the source material that you chose.
That's why I didn't like his first video on this series. Anyone who thinks this is supposed to show the Germans as good guys hasn't actually watched the series. There are war crimes within the first episode, and even a scene where Wilhelm has to stop one of his men from executing a captured Soviet. Wilhelm is the only good person in the entire series, eventually rebelling against the Reich entirely. Friedhelm becomes the perpetrator of numerous war crimes, even surprising the SS officer giving the orders, with his willingness. In the barn scene, my thought was that he'd expected Friedhelm to disobey, so he could make an example of him for the new recruits
baptism in fire, its' their first time in battle, so they're getting things wrong. Also on 7:11, if your mg is aimed at the right side of the street it cannot immediately fire at the left side of the street.
6:63 It's not like the machine gun will be shooting at any possible cover at all times. Most of its fire was focused to where the Germans were coming from. So yeah, the lieutenant getting away with tossing the grenade that way is feasible. Though the way he did so is questionable, but...
This battle takes place during two days in the series. The T-34 made them retreat and try again the next day, that´s why the tank wasn´t there anymore.
There are lots of minor and even some major mistakes in this series, when you watch German war films from the 1950s and 60s you notice that in former times there were a lot more experienced advisors on the set...
The LT is a good character, but he probably has lost it mentally and is essentially trying to commit suicide, or he served during the time but didn't have much actual combat experience. My theory is he was mentally and emotionally broken and was trying to essentially commit suicide by russian
In regards of the street with Soviet soldiers and the tank I think that's a different street with the one shown at the end they are not the same places. When I first saw this I thought I was awesome but watching this analysis It does make sense.
I love your videos and I'm guessing you speak Russian. (If you already clarified that somewhere, I apologise, I'm fairly new to the channel.) I got corrected years ago by some Russian friends, PPSh is an transliteration for ППШ (Пистолет-пулемёт Шпагина) which should be pronounced "Pay Pay Shah" as opposed to "Pee Pee Ess Aitch". I'd been pronouncing it wrong since I was a kid making Tamiya models! Surely if respected commentarists like you pronounce it right, the history enthusiast community will start to come over (and maybe even start to learn Russian!)
3:16 The Kar98 and Kar98k are not the same thing and should not be confused with one another. The K98 is a polish carbine and a copy of the Kar98a. The Kar98 is the German service rifle I believe you are referring to.
14:20 I'm pretty sure those Soviet soldiers in front of and below the T-34s gun would all have been knocked out and/or have terrible ringing in their ears, at least... Plus, I don't think Panzerfaust was fired from shoulder...
