*It must not be easy to fly your aircraft when your window is wide open and you're going faster than 200 knots. KUDOS to these pilots and also the ATCs who reworked all the traffic to let the Delta land safely :D*
Seems to be a little subtitle mishap around 8:55 and no audio at 8:32 And at 9:08 " .. in command for the.. alert crew?" And why did that other pilot answer with: "that never happened" ?
Oh god what is this strange vortex of videos I just barely understand that I've been sucked into. I didn't even know Harrison Ford flew planes and the next thing you know here I am.
If the pilots are reporting that they cannot hear the tower, I would think it would cause problems to try and give other runway options after they said they would use 30L. A mandatory runway change is one thing to try to share... But optional runway change may confuse the pilots if they hear part of the info but not all?
@@gomphrena-beautifulflower-8043 - I wonder if someone who does actually pilot a plane will eventually chime is because I'd love to hear their thoughts. (I work in medicine and when I watch videos on here surrounding medicine, it actually drives me crazy. For example a mother found her baby not breathing and in the hospital they did a battery of tests and one of those was a sleep study that showed sleep apnea....so then all the comments were that every baby should have a sleep study 🙈)
While it sounds logical to change to 35, it isn't all that easy. With a runway change, you'll need to run the pre-landing checklist again and might need to reconfigure some of the planes systems. For example, if the new runway is shorter, you might need to select 'maximum' on the autobrakes. It's pretty hard to run a checklist when you can't hear each other and their original plan would still work so they stuck to it.
Regarding comments on why DL343 said to ATC "That never happened.", this is my take on it ... Everyone can hear the radio comm between DL589 and ATC. From the beginning, DL589 stated the problem and declared that they needed to return. ATC gave them 30L. DL589 acknowledged 30L. Then ATC suggests 35 but DL is already set for 30L.. When ATC gave DL343 their instructions, ATC said that they had an a/c that went NORDO. ATC couldn't figure out what the a/c wanted. When the a/c finally came over, they wanted 30L.... Well, to me, that didn't happen the way the ATC explained it to DL343... He made it seem like DL589 was indecisive and DL wanted 30L. That's incorrect. And so DL343 replied back to this comment "That never happened."..
ATC is shocking. Got a window open can't hear a thing but idiot keeps trying to get them to change runway and complicating everything. Really need to see how ATC is done in Europe. This situation would have been handled calmly getting everyone out of the way.
So…I’m asking this question because I’ve never been in a seat up front. The sliding windows in the cockpit, I can only imagine, must be opened/closed by the flight crew right? If so, windows closed/locked must an item on a checklist. Did this crew miss that OR is it possible for a closed and locked sliding cockpit window to open on its own??
It should be in the before takeoff checklist. If not it will be added to this FO’s checklist. You can add anything you want to the checklist you just can’t remove anything that is part of the POH.
Seems it would have been commonly added after the horrific BA incident that pulled a pilot out of his seat; and a few other more inconsequential occurrences. Seems to me it’s much more common than ever. Just asking here - are Pilots made aware of any work that was done on the plane they’re flying, say, in the few days beforehand?
Is it just me or has anyone else been yelling at the screen "THEY HAVE A WINDOW OPEN, BUT YOU ALL APPARENTLY HAVE YOUR EARS CLOSED. TREAT THEM LIKE A COMS FAILURE." "we couldn't figure out what they wanted" Mate, if you play that video my deaf aunt she's gonna audibly understand what they wanted...
DAL589: Can't hear shit and is locked in for runway 30L ATC: I know you can't hear for shit, but how about this other runway 35? DAL589: Nope didn't get that and right now don't care. ATC: Hey so uhh, 35 is preferred even though WE set you up for 30L. DAL589: We're already setup for 30L, now please let us focus on flying. ATC: Hey you other flights, emergency aircraft situation, and we don't know wtf is going on, so we'll inexplicably set you up on 30L which is the same runway the EM aircraft is landing on. ATC: Woops I'm sorry, disregard last, DAL343 I need you on 35 due to EM aircraft. We couldn't figure out what they wanted, when they clearly specified they were setup for 30L at least twice. DAL343: That never happened, because you all agreed on 30L and at no point did DAL589 say they wanted 35.
When he vectored two other ac immediately on 30L I was literally speechless. Even having other ac landing on 30R seemed sketchy to me if I have to be honest. Just get everybody out of the way for 20 mins, wtf
@VASAviation - I don't know who you are or why you do this, but I genuinely appreciate the effort that you/your team put into producing each one of these. Thank you.
"your possibly cross channel" uh, no, they have a 200 knot wind in the cockpit and can't hear shit. like they tell you literally every time they come up on net.
DAL343: “That never happened” Obviously somebody is listening, too bad it wasn’t ATC. The emergency aircraft clearly always wanted 30L. No idea why ATC didn’t get that.
Sorry for the inconvenience Delta 343! Show some empathy for your company peer who is being blasted in the face with air whilst maintaining control of a 737.
Yeah - what’s his “that never happened” comment all about? I’d like to interpret it as “No worries/No problem” but I’m not sure that was the meaning implied.
Personally, I took it to mean that 343 was monitoring the frequency, and was very aware that the intentions of the emergency aircraft was runway 30L from the beginning. The airport tried to push the emergency aircraft to runway 35, feeling it was a better option, only to have the emergency aircraft say no, we are sticking to 30L, then the approach tried to blame the emergency pilots for being indecisive on their decision, causing the re-re-re direct... "That never happened"
@@CaptainSiCo They said "That never happened" in response to the ATC explaining how he screwed up, meaning "We'll pretend it never happened, don't worry".
I tracked this flight from 45 minutes north of MSP as it was happening on FR24. Very scary situation, was glad to see it on the ground. At the time I didn’t know the reason for the emergency, but people on the MSP spotters group informed me about it. It was a bit of a shocker to me as I’ve never been so close to an emergency like that. Thanks for covering it VASAviation!
As an airline pilot, it is beyond annoying when ATC is relentless with questions and talking. When we say “we’ll get back to you when we can” it’s for a reason. Lots to do in those moments. Figure out the issue, delegate divide and conquer between the pilots, notify flight attendants with what’s happened, where we’re going, how long til get there, evacuating or not; then contact company to let them know the same, then at same time fly the plane. Sequence flight computer for a return,with an approach, run the checklists, brief the landing, talk to company again, answer the phone call from the flight attendants, and oh yeah answer the controller whose getting annoyed that we don’t respond in a timely manner to his liking.
They don’t have a choice. They need to understand intentions so they can clear airspace to allow the distressed aircraft room to operate and to prep ground emergency equipment for any eventuality
I have a question if the tower is obviously not able to sort things out right, how is it to disregard command of them... Stating: "This is ABC 123 we can't hear anything!!! All airplane within our vicinity, we are declaring emergency and we plan to land on runway bluhbluh via WUT and DAH and FUK... If anybody is able pls quick give a shout to the planes on the ground...."
Seems to me that once they've indicated they have a problem with the window, that means that not only will they have difficulty hearing the radio, but also hearing each other. Since they're squawking 7700, they should be left alone unless they specifically try to communicate. Constantly calling them just distracts them from the other things they need to do. So watch what they're doing, and keep other aircraft clear.
ATC become guardian angels in a real emergency. I see your point, but just hearing their broken comms might be comforting to the crew indicating ATC is there and clearing the airspace. I flew my butt into a sticky mess once. It was very nice to have someone helping.
I know emergency situations are difficult but why did the tower controller continue to give long, complicated instructions in a normal voice after he had heard 3-4 times that 589 could not hear him. I would have barked "589...HEADING 220".
MrCrystalcranium I know that makes sense, but shouting wouldn’t be beneficial for a number of reasons. Firstly, the radios that aircraft use is relatively low bandwidth, so loud noises just clip and become any less audible. Shouting wouldn’t make any difference in this case either - the wind noise is so loud that the pilots were likely completely deaf to communication. Perhaps more pertinent, when a pilot declares and emergency, they seize control of the airspace from the ATC. This means they can maneuver in any way necessary without clearance. While it’s a good practice to communicate while in 7700, it’s not always possible and certainly not necessary. The ATC was just trying to provide other options here.
ATC communication is very scripted. Instructions are always given with a specific limited vocabulary, with the items in a specific order, and words pronounced in a specific way. You get used to hearing it that way and any deviation from the pattern just increases the risk of it being misunderstood.
The one take away for this for me, I understand the ATC were trying to be helpful with the other runway. But considering they could not hear that could have just confused matters. Should have just let them get on with it for the RWY they had initially setup
vectors are clearly evidently a number or something like directions that appear on a screen. I have zero experience but watching this video that's the only thing that makes sense
Also while the Radio is about useless to the pilot in this situation, aircraft do have ACARS and other methods of communication, So if ATC can hear the pilot, they may well be able to send a text reply back via ACARS or other compatible system. Not perfect but better than nothing.
I don't get it - was the window broken in the tower or the cockpit? Because the pilots told him about 5 times they wanted 30L and he still sent other traffic that way instead of 35.
@@tomhejda6450 35 doesn't cross 30L or 30R. Only the short lines in the video resemble the runways, the longer lines indicate the extended centerline to a distance of I think 10nm. The departure path does cross though, so you wouldn't want to simulatenously land two aircraft (or land and depart) on 30L/R and 35 because they could collide on a go around.
Surely in this day and age there should be a form of ATC to Plane text type service if they can't hear a word like this and just type out their issues and receive instructions by by text too !! Seems lunacy that there is not.
Pretty sure Delta Comm (text comms ATC to pilots) was already being rolled out several years before this at big US airports, so this one has me really puzzled too...? No tech expertise on that though sorry. Glad the pilots were able to get down safe despite the apparent weirdness with ATC!
They changed their 4 digit transponder to the emergency code, which is the same thing, and the protocol if you are unable to confirm voice communication
I’m not an aviation buff and I rarely fly but I love these videos. How often do things like this happen where a plane has to return right after departure? Kudos to the pilots and controllers in situations like this.
Often enough that every flight crew explicitly discusses what their plan is if they have to come back. Many problems will appear immediately upon reaching a certain speed/altitude so the vast majority of emergencies in airplanes occur within the first 5 minutes of flight.
I first saw this on my Twitter feed when I was just browsing through it. Scary to hear about it, but glad everyone made it back on the ground safely. You could feel the stress that the pilots might’ve been having during this situation.
This should terrify everyone. Not just that the pilots have a huge issue and cannot hear, but that ATC was totally inept. How many times do they say they cannot hear but they continue to try to contact them. Unreal.
There was another incident at Minneapolis this past Monday evening (Nov 12th) with an aircraft that had to land without nose gear. Did you happen to get the ATC audio from that?
In this same channel I saw a video on emergency landing due to broken window inside the flight. So anything could have happened. You can't guarantee anything.
okay, so atc in the usa CAN speak clearly when they feel forced to. lol never heard them speak so loud and clear compared to when they were trying to get the frequencies across
What part of the pilot’s multiple transmissions that they could not hear ATC was not understood by the controllers that they repeatedly keep asking Delta “can you hear us” 🤦🏻♂️
There should be an option to chat with atc in text mode, just like in vatsim or ivao... It makes life so much easier to be able to read past messages... Or at least be able to read messages in these situatiobs
Good job by all - little surprised there weren’t some additional radio calls by the emergency aircraft once they were turning for the approach / landing - just for situational awareness and intentions to tower and other traffic.
Delta 343 seemed a little too impatient, I don't think if he was in the same situation he would want to have to worry about someone having a small fit over course Corrections for a Final Approach he needed to keep his head in the game, and realize there was an aircraft in trouble that aircraft is the Tower's first responsibility, you wait in line like everyone else. Also great work by the controllers and the magnified graphics toward the end of this post made it so much easier for those of us with corrective vision problems to follow nice job keep up the good work and we'll see you at the next video
Eh, Delta 343 seemed pretty chill about the situation. He was bound to land for 35, was moved to 30L and had to enter all the numbers for a landing there. And just as he was done with that tower realised they'd messed up and moved him back to 35, and had to re-enter all the numbers for that runway. Hence the "Okay..._runway 35_ ", and after the tower even apologized for messing it up he just went with a "We'll pretend it never happened". Classic dry humour.
Why didn't the flight squawk 7700 (or at least 7600) right away? Instead of back-and-forth with ATC about not being able to hear ... as soon as they were unable to comply with ATC instructions (because they wouldn't be able to even hear them) and they needed ATC to get any traffic out of their way, why didn't they squawk first? That way they don't have to spend effort trying to hear ATC ask them if they have a problem, and ATC would get everyone out of their way immediately?
If the window is left unlatched, it is hard to use the lever to latch it closed in flight, or was something else going on (damaged seal or track perhaps)? I would think the aircraft pressurization would assist in pushing it closed.
Get in the back of a pick-up going 75 mph, now stand up. Now try it at 230 mph that's 200 knots or 370 km/h. That's the forces you are looking at, you couldn't pressurize it fast enough.
Very frustrating listening to this. What does ATC not understand about "I can't hear anything...." but continued to give vectors. Am I missing something here?
I was confused by this. At 1:59, the pilot says "we cannot hear a word because we have a window open. We're going to have to get vectors back." If he really couldn't hear a word, how could he get vectors? But later he also responds to some ATC instructions, showing that he can at least sometimes hear ATC.
Sometimes I wonder what the hell the controllers are listening to when they are not talking. The pilot clearly stated that he had a window open and could not hear. Jesus what part of that don't you understand? Don't they realize when things like that happen, the pilot(s) are a little busy?
What should he do mr smartass? Just ignore them and let them solve it on their own? He also managed to contact them a few times and gave crucial info, so they apparently could hear, just not very well. His only option was to try contacting them.. Dont you realize..?
The mantra they teach you pretty much from day 1 of pilot training is "Aviate, Navigate, Communicate". That's the priority order. Keep control of the airplane and follow your cleared route of flight which guarantees you won't hit any other airplanes or terrain. Only after you've got that taken care of, talk to ATC. The whole system is designed that if you ever lose comms, you already have all the information you need to keep going to your destination without talking to anybody. When you hear ATC say, "Expect XXX", that's not just chitchat, it specifically means, "If you lose comm, go ahead and do XXX". That's also why you hear controllers say, "Cleared to via radar vectors" on these videos. That means, "I'm no longer expecting you to follow your original clearance to your original destination if you lose comm, I'm now expecting you to land at " if you lose comm. If you take any kind of checkride, you can expect to hear your examiner ask you at some point, "If we were to lose comm right now, what would you do?", and you better be able to tell them.
If you do not ensure your window is in the locked position BEFORE the aircraft starts it take off roll....the window will open.... It is well engineered with a positive lock position....which is easy to spot.. CREW ERROR....POOR PRE-FLIGHT.!!!
So interesting (and not ATC, pilot/flight attendant/baggage carrier. I'm in ER RN). One side of people make fun of pilot as if this is a minor issue, and another group who praises the pilot saying he did a great job.
I bet you'd have all kinds of interesting comments if there was a channel showing ED struggles. Then again, I've seen the criticisms on medical instruction videos, so maybe I don't want to know more about bad techniques. :)
Personally, Idon't think ATC should hv tried to hv the Delta change 2 critical things, the runway and the frequency. Especially when hearing was so difficult.
I wonder, why are those windows made to slide back, instead of forward ? This would prevent them from opening like that. If the lack of space is a problem, it could always be the furthest back window that is movable ?
Can you check this news about a Lufthansa flight Frankfurt to Bogota than almost went wrong at the alternate airport: www.elcolombiano.com/colombia/saturacion-del-espacio-aereo-por-poco-causa-emergencia-DN9681317
If there is no way for the pilots to hear the tower, and the tower could here them, could it be possible for the Delta to say they will be turning around and landing onto a runway while the tower could direct all other traffic away from the airport?
smoke signals? Flash cards? Pass each other notes? Personally, I would say hand signals, that's how they communicate with the ground crew after they unplug from the plane.
Was that a novice ATC? Why did he start changing instructions to a pilot who could barely hear the radio? Why even talk in that situation? Just let them land wherever they want and clear all other traffic from its path!
They cant sit there and NOT say anything. Keep communicating in the event audio in the cockpit is restored. If for no other reason than to have it on record for investigators.
"if that doesn't interfere with traffic too much" fuck the traffic, fuck the controllers who aren't listening, you are an emergency! TELL them you're landing 30L
This was already posted and the window didn’t break apart as titled. The FO didn’t secure the window and it came open. There was no failure of the window.
Nah, mistakes happen. Sure, they’ll have some discussions but there are those that have made mistakes and those that will. Point being the title is incorrect and it’s been posted before.
wkdravenna I'm sorry, but that sort of thoughtless, knee-jerk reaction, AND not even sure if racism is present makes you part of the problem, and not part of the solution. I despise racism, but please DO NOT create a situation where one DOES NOT EXIST.
Maybe they should have those WW1 pilot googles under the seat just in case this happens again. I can’t imagine controlling anything while I’m being blasted with 200+ knots of wind.
![[REAL ATC] Delta is forced to return after a WINDOW BREAKS APART!](/img/logo.svg){kind=logo}
