Reality Check: The Runway Behind You 

I lost my 2 good buddies on December 20th of last year flying out of Grand Prarie Airport when they had an engine out situation in a Wheeler, right after takeoff. It is guessed that they only had about 500 to 750 feet altitude to work with, so they chose to try to land on a busy highway. Only it was just too busy with traffic, so they opted to try for the service road and almost made it. A pickup unknowingly pulled out of a gas station in front of them and that caused them to try and side slip around him, but a street light pole caught the left wing and ripped open the fuel tank. They ended up rearending the pickup and burst into flames before they could exit the aircraft and both burned alive. My friend John, the planes owner, was a fairly new pilot, but my long time flying buddy Larry in the right seat had many hours and was a CFI. They just ran out of room. And the Wheeler they were flying that day was not a "lets fly slow" aircraft. Had they been in the CFI's 182 I'm sure Larry could have made that landing. These were great guys and we flew across country many times together over the years. I still miss them! I was supposed to go with them that day to look at a twin engine airplane we were thinking of buying together. I was behind on my Christmas Shopping or I would have gone with them.

This is a horrible case of irony, condolences to Richard's family. I don't think this video should be taken down however, because it's used as a tool for all future pilots so we can learn from it. Still, horrible coincidence that Richard narrated this video and then 2 years later died in the same way.

I was gonna say I've never had any issues with turning back 180 and landing after an engine failure... but then I remembered I fly helicopters.

A couple things to note from someone who has actually done this for real: 1) Your departure angle from the from the airport is going to be the biggest factor of whether you can actually make it. As we have seen this is a result of the aircrafts climb profile, but wind speed is a very large factor as well. With a 15 knot headwind, you’d probably find that the Cessna 172 would overshoot and/or have difficulty stopping in the remaining runway, while the Bonanza would benefit from getting drag out (gear, flaps, prop fine) and make it. The departure angle is also affected by temperature and humidity. The Cessna 172 also wouldn’t make it at hot and high conditions as its departure angle is too close to or even below its glide profile. 2) The amount of turning you need to do will be dependent on a couple factors. How tight you make the first turn, how much drift you have and whether you compensate for it, and whether you turn into any crosswind or away from it. I noticed that all of the pilots here turned left. Instinctive for pattern work, visibility on side-by-side aircraft (which the Cub and RV are not) and goes with left turning tendencies (irrelevant though with no power). Left may not be the best direction. So for my method, I do this: I let the plane drift downwind after takeoff. Obviously not if there are obstacles or traffic, but even vector SIDs out of a large airport are runway heading with parallel departures. I take note of how far I am from the runway by the time I reach altitude. Again, in a Cessna 172 high altitude hot day no wind... it’s physically impossible to make it back to the runway from 600 feet because of how far out you’ll be by the time you reach it. Unless you have a turn after departure, you won’t ever make it back at any altitude. Don’t let this video fool you saying that a Cessna 172 could make it back easily. For the failure itself, if your profile suggests you could make it back based on altitude, distance, and wind... turn OPPOSITE the direction of drift and turn as tight as you can. 60 degrees of bank while throwing out flaps. Pull to the stall horn or buffet, and sacrifice altitude to maintain airspeed. Forget the ground school “60 degrees is 2Gs and 1.4x stall speed”... that’s for level flight. You aren’t pulling anywhere near 2G and since stall warning/buffet is based on Angle of Attack they will always give you warning. Don’t panic.. sacrifice that altitude, and respect those warnings. It is not for the faint of heart, but it makes the second turn that you have to do even lower much easier. Do not panic if you see the ground or trees or houses rush up at you. If you run out of room.. roll wings level, keep your airspeed, and accept what’s in front of you-if you keep control, you will likely survive. If you spin, or stall... you are dead. If you’ve done the first turn well.. you should be offset by maybe 30 degrees rather than 45 or more. Determine at which point your plane will comfortably glide and if it is slightly short... plan to enter ground effect there to stretch the glide, if you can. If it is long, forward slip or reduce airspeed slightly from best glide to steepen the descent. Of course, remaining straight ahead is probably the best for most pilots. Even in built up areas... as long as you have a controlled crash, you will probably survive. Even into a wood stick house. The reason why the FAA would rather you land straight ahead is because of the discourse I just gave. It’s far too complex and there are far too many factors to effectively teach it safely. So please don’t assume your 172 can do this all of the time. The insurance company owns the plane as soon as the engine quits. Don’t be afraid to destroy it to save your life.

That’s why it’s a super cub. Not an okay cub.

Remember, you don't have to get back to the runway! Any hard surface will do: taxiway, ramp, access road. There are usually other options available at an airport. That's how I do my pre-departure briefing: going over what surfaces are available in case of an engine failure.

So terribly ironic how the man in this video died because of this very topic. So sad.

RIP Richard,you left us with so many questions, why? Why did you die in an impossible turn back? Just seems unfathomable! The rest of us will be perplexed long after you are fair welled!🙁

Reducing prop RPM by pulling the blue knob out in the bonanza will reduce drag, but that only works if you have oil pressure. In a true engine failure, you don't have that oil pressure.

An excellent and eye-opening video that’s admittedly heartbreaking to watch a few days after the passing of Richard McSpadden and Russ Francis. RIP and thank you.

We were test flying a '61 Piper Colt, PA-22-108, I wanted to buy a couple weeks ago. Shortly after takeoff the cabin quickly filled with smoke and smelled of burnt oil. We still had power but visibility quickly became an issue. We turned back with the window open and door cracked. Little hairy trying that in a plane you've never flown, in front of the owners, not at your home airport and to top it off, the mic started cutting out. We pulled it off and landed safely. Pulled mixture and coasted off the runway toward the sellers. Turns out rubber valve gaskets were tightend down too much and pinched. Few cork gaskets, new radio and $1,000 off the price later, I now own a '61 Piper Colt! 😜

A real-world case study on this topic was long overdue. Thank you for putting this together Practiced 3 of these - at altitude - in my Cherokee 140 during my Flight Review wtih my CFI last weekend. My range of altitude loss for a 270 degree turn was 400-500' using 80mph and 45 degrees of bank.

Keeping the aircraft above stall speeds whatever aircraft type whether straight and level or with 60 bank angle is ALWAYS the critical factor. When a wing drops because lift is gone, close to the ground, you are history.

This is a fantastic video. Thank you for doing these tests and having the courage to put them up. I'm willing to bet there will be some criticism, but it's hard to see fault in the precautions and care you took here. I've always suspected that the slow speed and high climb angle of some aircraft would make turn back much more reasonable than in others, but I didn't expect the effect would be so extreme. No kidding, this video is causing me to reverse my decision to let my AOPA membership lapse. It is a reminder that there are folks there doing positive things for GA.

I don't understand how ASI is exempt from the regulations they recited in the video... The regulation calls for performing it at a safe altitude for practice but they do it anyway at an unsafe altitude.

1:16 I wanted to see a turnbacks in those Military Transport planes. :)

The "Impossible Turn" is a standard part of the Hungarian PPL training. That said, I know of one very experienced pilot who died trying to save a plane on a test flight after maintenance.

FAA examiner: "How much altitude would you expect to lose in a turn back to the airport if your engine died right after takeoff? " Me: "I'd expect to lose all of it."

Great analysis guys! Now I know that if I want to attempt the impossible turn I must first know location, time and altitude my unpredictable engine failure occurs.

Very good video. Thank you!

To me it was apparent in the opening statements, before the experiment was even run, a turn back for an average pilot in the majority of statistical situations, is not even close to a viable option.

GREAT VIDEO - thanks for testing this scenario for the aviation community!! Important to note - these tests were conducted in the most optimal weather conditions. I still believe in using that valuable time, altitude, and air-speed to find a suitable landing in front of you is better overall. And even better... plan your emergency landing zone on google maps prior to flying. Thanks again guys - this was a great video!!!

Awesome and valuable knowledge ! Thank you for sharing this incredible data!

Very helpful. Thank you. Also, love the whole channel. Very informative and well produced instructional videos. Big fan.

I really do recommend trying this *with a CFI* in your plane. That will give you the best idea of what a pilot of your skills can do in your plane. It'll also help with the startle factor if it ever happens in real life. As they said in the video, try it at altitude first, then with a real runway. In my experience in a 172, making the runway wasn't the problem - with a decent headwind my problem was that I was getting blown past the runway to the point where I would have overshot, and going around isn't an option when you're deadsticking. Also worth noting that, in a real failure, close is good enough at most airports. If you just make it back to the flat ground near the runway your chances of survival are pretty high. You might ding up the airplane a bit, but once the engine fails it belongs to the insurance company anyways!

I personally use 500ft agl for turnaround minimums in a 172, which is something that I regularly practice. If the wind is a stronger headwind sometimes I can't make the runway, not because I can't turn around, but because I would run out of runway. Personally on every departure breifing I brief what the turnaround minimums are depending on the wind, runway length, and current conditions.

Great video guys! Not a new subject, of course, but I really like how you approached it. Making multiple realistic simulations in different planes was eye opening. Good advice at the end too.

Very sobering. Thank you for posting this and for the testing you did.

***True Story*** At My Last in Person FIRC class, the instructor was talking about the "impossible turn".. the gentlemen sitting in front of me turned around and said "don't ever do that impossible nonsense.. land straight ahead, no matter what aircraft you're in"... That Gentlemen was Dick Rutan...

As a CFI I make it a point to never demonstrate maneuvers that I don't want my students to attempt solo, especially during primary training.

Fantastic video! Congratulations!!!

Thank you for the video! and for your advice!

I'm not a pilot at all. And I enjoy watching these AOPA videos. They are very well put together. The explainations are so simple even a non-pilot like myself can understand.

In my country, we always learned to fly straight ahead or to the nearest field/ no obstacle area. If altitude is avail, then return.

Great video and experiment/demonstration! Thanks

Great video, very informative thank you.

Why do these tests so close to the ground? It could've gone wrong real quick.

Really fantastic video. Well put together with a great message.

Nice work y’all. Very cool and helpful.

Fantastic video! Thank you.

Little preplanning does wonders, as does home field advantage. My old field had a railroad grade right down the centreline for miles in one direction, nothing the other until you reach the mall or the freeway. Two other fields, SOL, they’re in the middle of town. One has the freeway that nobody uses, but you’d have to remember to shoot for it. Brilliant demonstration, perhaps those who move up in aircraft and performance had gotten used to the ability to do so in their smaller and slower aircraft, only to be caught attempting the procedure in an emergency, and end up only halfway though it, and falling out of the sky.

For a long runway with a strong headwind, landing straight ahead is an option. For a short runway and a strong headwind, there will be a potent tailwind, which means the airplane will have a very high ground speed and cover a lot of ground before touchdown and likely overshoot the end of the runway. Another good "with CFI"experience is to find an airport where there are no other aircraft and attempt a landing in a tai wind. It's quite impressive what a 10 kt tailwind will do in increasing landing distance - very impressive. Make that a 20 kt tailwind and you better have one long runway ahead of you after the turn back landing. If the headwind is strong, and the runway is short behind you and terrain permits, landing straight ahead with a low ground speed due to a strong headwind might be the best way to go.

Excellent work guys, very eye opening.

Great video, guys! Thank you!

Makes my head hurt. Okay in the event of a real engine failure on take-off, I appreciate the 3 second startle factor but you have to already have turn back in mind or just pick a smooth spot in front of you that will suffice as a makeshift runway. I think so therefore it will be dangerous for me to second guess my first guess. Find a place where you will survive and hopefully so will the airplane .... a discussion to be had with the CFI this week. I do appreciate the mental exercise and the review of real world techniques.

Good experimental procedure, but I had to watch twice to understand that the reason the Bonanza failed was not because it didn't have enough altitude to make the turns, but because by the time it reached that altitude on climb-out, it was too far from the runway to both turn AND make it back. Perhaps wing loading is a useful number to keep in mind.

Excellent video, thank you

Excellent presentation.

Best video I ever saw about turn backs. Great job. Every GA pilot needs to watch this. It’s better to know what is possible versus what is not in order to make the correct decision

THIS VIDEO CANNOT BE MEANT OR TAKEN SERIOUSLY!!!! It is much more risky for every pilot at the end and a shame for Air Safety Institute to have published such one!

Great work! As a 12,000-hour airline guy that only flys GA occasionally, you have convinced me. Thanks for sharing

Amazing video! Thanksss

“Don’t try what we just showed you can work” [because we shouldn’t have tried and shown you in the first place]

This reminds me a lot of my military days flying the U-2, where a good portion (about half) of each practice pattern (“low”) sortie was spent practicing flameout patterns. We knew from performance data, flight test and experience the minimum altitude from which you could start the turn back maneuver and expect to reach a minimum “low key” abeam the departure runway with enough altitude to start the 180 back around to the departure runway and land. Even practicing this maneuver is not without hazard. We had specific restrictions on practicing the maneuver; we could not start it from initial takeoff as that technique actually resulted in an accident. Something I would suggest for anyone practicing this is to initiate the pushover, establish your glide speed, then initiate the turn. Yes, you will lose some altitude, but it will result in a more stable maneuver and avoid a simultaneous pushover into unloaded flight with a roll into a bank and the potential for inadvertent entry into an accelerated stall. Additionally, it may be more safer/more stabilized if one chooses a gliding 180 into a position abeam the landing surface, followed by a 180 turn back onto the departure runway in these situations, vice the 90/90 S-turn to the reciprocal heading. Whatever one does, they have to remember this is a maneuver flown close to the ground with very little space to recover if you mess it up. We had an ejection seat in the U-2 and even then, it was a maneuver that we practiced within very specific parameters. Fly safe.

Thank you for the video.

Great video. Thanks to everyone!

Um, AOPA, I have a question. What is the nimber one cause of GA fatal accidents? LOCI if I remember my Nall Report correctly. Why are you advocating for turning back at all? You are low and slow, and now you want to make a max performance turn? This is a LOCI event just waiting to happen. Why are you going against the FAA AC? I teach my students to land straight ahead and if you have to turn to avoid an obsticle, no more than 30 degrees left or right. I also teach them to be spring loaded to push the nose down immediately upon losing the engine. They even brief that before they take the runway. Here you are advocating for going against FAA recommendations, and decades of data that says turning back to the runway is a terrible idea. I hope that nobody takes your advice and dies as a result.

I agree that practicing this, at altitude with a cfi, should be standard pratice when transiting to a new aircraft. For those glider pilots this is a standard part of the check ride but easy.

I had to watch this video again to rest assured Mr. McSpadden knew the possibilities of returning as a real no option scenario. It truly breaks my heart knowing he would have most likely been trying to not persuade this life losing maneuver. I watch these videos over and over, so these will be first thought should I be in any of these real critical moments. I pray for his family, as well as the other gentleman's family. Tragedy can happen at anytime, but I feel Mr. McSpadden did his absolute very best to prevent this accident. I am thankful to be a part of this wonderful organization and pray for all pilots to reflect on prepare, practice, and tell how wonderful the flight was on their safe return home. Godspeed Richard McSpadden on your flight West.

Thank you for the science and demonstration.

I only have 30 hours, but can easily discern this video is more dangerous for thousands of others to be mislead by than the actual number of engine outs.

Being a student pilot, this video reinforced the need for a greater understanding of safety in flying a plane even more then I imagined! Tks to all you guys for taking the time to produce it... 🙌🏻👏🏻👏🏻

I have practiced this many times in my Citabria. Barry Schiff had a great article on how to practice. It was very similar to the ones mentioned here. Especially why you should count to 3 before performing the turn-back.

Goodnight! I arrived at this video on the recommendation of the Branco Aviação channel, the best about flight safety in Brazil 🇧🇷. Thanks for the simulations.

A very informative video! The main takeaway I get is that a smaller. lighter, fixed pitch prop airplane will do much better with the turnback maneuver. I have a glider rating, and I think that helps me significantly. During my ASEL training, my instructor cut the power on downwind, and had me do a simulated engine out approach. Turning short final, he told me to put the power back in, and I assured him it was not necessary..... a smooth landing followed. I strongly encourage everyone to take a few lessons in gliders. It won't help your airplane, but will give you some skill in flying an engineless airplane.

You gotta be damn good at flying to do this.

My understanding is: latest thinking is to use a 45° bank angle and fly at “DMMS“ (Defined Minimum Maneuvering Speed: VSO times 1.404) Many years ago I pulled off a turn-back with Cessna TU206 after the TSIO-520 swallowed a valve. 5,000’ runway, straight out departure, failed at 1,000’ A bit of residual power . . . just enough to taxi back to the ramp with full throttle. Had practiced the scenario not too long prior. It worked but . . . best choice would’ve been an off airport landing within maybe 90° of original runway heading. Every takeoff scenario is different. Pilot, airplane, runway length, DA, departure terrain, wind . . . Ya gotta have a plan before the start of each takeoff roll.

Great info, well done. It might be a good habit to offset your climb-out heading 20° or so to the right from the runway heading to give a less acute turn back angle. (for clockwise rotating props)

Good video. Having been in this situation twice (albeit not on the climbout), I think it's worth mentioning that there's an enormous difference in performance between an engine at idle and an engine that is totally stopped. It's also interesting to try this manuever whilst at at a safe altitude and, if your aircraft is spin-allowable (and you're proficient at spin recovery and you are at a recoverable altitude), keep tightening the turn until entry. It's a bit of an eye opener.

Absolutely brilliant analysis and testing. Learned a lot from this.

Great video

Would love to see more of these demonstration videos...

Dead stick turn back you're not worried about lining up with the runway. I'd be aiming for the grass.

My CFI had me learn and practice turn backs in a 172. He called it the improbable turn' instead of the 'impossible turn.'

Outstanding food for thought here. Thank you. Consider the variables.👍

Any CFI practicing this at low altitude with a student should have their ticket revoked.

Haunting.... Rest in peace

This is great info to have !

I love this kind of video.

As a flight instructor, glider pilot, and air traffic controller who is working to develop training for fellow air traffic controllers about emergencies, my perspective for controllers is a little unique. My recommendation is that engine failures after takeoff resulting in possible turnbacks will happen so fast that the decision is 100% up to the pilot, not the controller, but the controller has a role once the pilot begins to turn back to remind the pilot to keep the airplane under control. This video is invaluable for helping me and others to visualize what would actually be happening in the cockpit, in addition to my own previous flight testing. Thanks AOPA!

The reason we're coming back is most unfortunate. Rest in peace. It remains frustrating that this video was intentionally written to, perhaps, maximize control margins while minimizing chance of success.

Really like this. I understand why I was told no. But also knew that it should be possible sometimes.

your videos are great

Excellent video!! Thank you!! I even got nervous watching as the Super Cub was gliding back on the stall warning! Thanks for doing this for us AOPA!

This seems a dangerous test.

According to the gopro visuals of the Bonanza turns, it was not at a 46 degree bank, more like a 30. I did a forced turn back years ago in a loaded Cherokee 6 with a power loss. My initial turn was probably close to 60 degrees that day. I had many hours in that 6 flying 2 to 3 hours daily mostly to ranch strips and was totally comfortable in it. I think that makes a huge difference.

Spent 3 weeks at Martinsburg in 1989 with six H-53s from Hurlburt Field, FL. No crashes, thank goodness, but one of my electricians, Beth, mis-read the pressure while airing up a tire. It blew, sending shrapnel 100' and turned her face black! Luckily she was sideways at the time, as trained, and merely got blown over, not killed. Best aircraft electrician I ever had. RIP Beth! 😥

Yep better to hit anything ahead flat and horizontal with some control than anything behind you, inverted...out of control.

I'm surprised by the assertion that performance at idle and with the engine failed would be similar. I watched a video with Doug Rosendaal the other day in which he suggested that the sink rate if you cut the mixture in a 172 in a 45 degree turn was 700-900 ft/minute as compared to 500-600 ft/minute if you merely cut the throttle. It seems like a big assumption to be making. Here's the video I mentioned: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-7DUE8Eh5IUY.html

Very informative. Time to practice with a CFI on board.

Life lessons is AirSafety Guidance and clarity what i seek & what's delivered 🖤

Richard you do a great job with these videos. AOPA members are lucky to have you making aviation safe and fun for all of us.

I do not agree with the masses of comments calling this reckless. But the flight test procedure fails to yield any useful result. Ok, there is a minimum height loss for a 360, but what you really need is a method that can be applied in general to determine if you can make it back to the runway on any given departure. The results of this video do not answer that question. It is merely an observation of what happened in a handful of special cases. Also, to say - "the light thrust you might receive at idle power is somewhat offset by the drag from the moving propeller" - is an oxymoron. The total reaction of the prop will either result in thrust or drag - it will not be one offset by the other. Thumbs down.

Lifesaving information.

@airsafetyinstitute what was the chosen climb speed for the A36?

Excellent clip, that makes it clear by demonstration; this is really convincing data to look at by students and professionals.

This is reckless. First soloed in 1977, the AOPA would never have promoted this type of reckless maneuver. 300 AGL, 1000 AGL ?? How about a safer AGL to practice ??

Can't ask for more than that! Well done! I fly a Challenger 2 so much like the Cub but even better. I don't have a landing area ahead when taking off so I drift to the right a bit after take of so my turn will be more 270 than 360.

I don't fly, but find these well presented videos thouroughly engrosing. Thank you.

Ok... We need to start teaching to offset immediately clearing obstacles and no runway remaining and to then begin the crosswind leg, yes, very low. Flying the runway centerline on upwind makes the turn back further impossible and uses more energy - make your turns while engine power is still there! Glider pilots using self launch immediately offset the runway so you don't have to make a 270° turn back, 180° to face the runway heading, 45° to turn towards the runway, and then 45° to align it again. I believe we are all flying FAR too wide of patterns and should not by flying upwind with the runway behind us, THE worst place it can be in a power loss. If you turn cross wind after no runway remaining, and downwind inside of glide to the runway: you have a far better chance. Furthermore: turns should NOT be made at best glide! Best glide while facing anywhere but AWAY from the runway is sending you FURTHER from it while losing PRECIOUS altitude and energy! I humbly suggest you guys do some rope break maneuvers in a glider. I fully understand gliders are a different animal entirely, but they teach the turn back maneuver in a completely different fashion. MINIMUM SINK SPEED (not published, you must determine it yourself) must be flown until a suitable landing place has been selected AND in your windshield, IE in front of you. THEN you accelerate to best glide to reach it. Turning at 100kts in that heavy beast is never going to be possible, especially if you fly the upwind the entire time. Turn at 500' and see what happens to your turn back! You HAVE to fly min sink for a turn, NOT best glide, until you have turned TOWARDS the runway. You ate up ALL of your energy flying away from the runway. I will not be renting a Bonanza to try this out, but I'd be totally fine flying up to you to do these maneuvers at altitude and determine minimum sink speed in a turn and when straight ahead, and how to fly a turn back at low altitude and how we SHOULD be flying a pattern. Flying with the runway immediately behind you on upwind is making the impossible turn further impossible. Offset (let the wind drift you 500-1000') once obstacles permit so you only have to make a 180° turn back, not a 270° (180+45+45). Then you turn into the wind back to the runway in your windshield, not a bunch of parked airplanes lol You'll be SHOCKED at the altitude lost from the additional 45+45 turns. Make your turns while you still have power!