The IMPOSSIBLE Turn? - Engine failure on takeoff - Airplane Crashes - 180º Turn Back To The Runway 

There’s a scientific paper which studied the best roll angle for ‘the impossible turn’, balancing stall speed vs turn rate and the answer they came up with was 45 degrees, and I believe they also demonstrated that for most aircraft having flaps deployed during the initial turn back makes a big difference in reducing turn radius, but you may need to take them back out to reach the runway. For a 45 degree bank with constant descent rate your airspeed needs to be 19% above stall to account for the load factor, but then you need to build in a margin on top of that. And nobody would ever fly that perfectly in a real situation. Exceeding 45 degree bank increases stall risk, being less than 45 means not turning as fast as you could, so a bank of 30-45 degrees is what science says you should aim for.

Keep in mind the viability of the impossible turn is going to depend a LOT on what aircraft you're in - the Air Safety Institute made a video on this called "Reality Check: The Runway Behind You" where they tested the impossible turn in several different airplanes.

I'll quote my favorite pilot - Bob Hoover: "If you're faced with a forced landing, fly the thing as far into the crash as possible."

And that‘s the reason why take-off briefing and emergency briefing is so important. Even when it seems boring, and you have done it dozens of times at the same runway. I do it loudly even if it seems from outside that I am insane because of talking to myself

I had a total engine failure at 400 feet agl. Ahead of me was an inaccessible ravine. My choice to die where it would take a long time to be rescued or turn back. The most important thing is fly the aircraft, do the turn immediately while you have flying speed, then pick the best landing place where you can be rescued. I successfully returned to the airport and landed on the runway. As stated in the vid the most important thing is keep flying the aircraft.

I did the "impossible turn" on my BFR with an instructor. We were probably closer to 800' in a piper archer. I immediately pushed the nose down and banked pretty steep. When I got back facing the airport, I had to put in full flaps and slip the plane to get it down. The advice in this video is crucial. You have to pitch down to avoid a stall. And you don't need to do a gentle turn. You need to get the plane around quickly. Finally, get up with a CFI and practice this. You need to make the decision whether or not to turn back as quickly as possible. It should be second nature.

I was getting checked out in my Citabria last summer when the CFI told me we were going to do this…. I was always told never to try it so I was surprised …… we did it right at 500ft AGL and we had a little wind helping us but I was amazed I actually slipped the landing to put it in the numbers….. Best takeaway from your video for me was there are lots of variables…. So don’t think it will happen the same way every time

If you really want to increase your chances of surviving an impossible turn, install an AOA indicator. I installed the Bendix King KLR 10 AOA system in my 1978 Cessna Cardinal RG. I then went out and practiced the impossible turn starting at 1,000 feet and lowering subsequent attempts by 100 feet each time. I was able to complete the impossible turn from 1,000 feet down to 400 feet. The lowest safe return was at 400 feet. During each attempt the turn was made at 45 degrees to 60 degrees using the AOA to determine available lift. During each attempt the stall warning horn was blaring even though the AOA was showing available lift. I think an AOA indicator should be mandatory equipment in every aircraft. For me it is one of the best pieces of safety equipment I have in my airplane!!!

I'm so glad you are covering this topic! It wasn't until I started flying gliders that I realized how crazy it is this maneuver is not widely demonstrated, when it is performed on every glider checkout and checkride. I now talk about this with my students and demonstrate it at least once (difficult in my area since all the airports are usually busy) to show how they can live in an engine failure. I refuse to solo my students and just shrug my shoulders and think "I hope they don't have an engine failure on the upwind." Everyone should be prepared and have a minimum return altitude with fluctuates based on terrain, conditions, proficiency, aircraft, and better landing options. At my home airport it's 700 feet, in the middle of the countryside it's often 1000 feet or above.

Almost seems you'd want to plan trips/refuel airports based on what the terrain looks like beyond the runway....just to give yourself the best chance of survival in the event of loss of power on takeoff.

Good stuff! I started practicing this after the Ford crash. 40 or so bank into wind and focus on best glide speed for your particular weight. Slip instead of flaps if needed.

Brilliant content yet again, thank you Jason! Your amazing work helps make us all better and safer pilots.

Great video thanks Jason. Such an important topic

Excellent video and analysis! Thank you! As a CFIG, we practice 180 degree turn rope breaks at 200FT AGL. You cannot be shy with a well executed/coordinated 45 degree bank. Rope breaks at 200FT AGL, stick forward, nose below the horizon, immediate 45 deg. left or right turn into the wind, pull back to tighten the turn as needed, considering speed allocation to prevent an accelerated stall into a spin. I'm in the process of becoming a CFIA, and being proficient in gliders making this type of maneuver, I don't know that I would take my chances like that instructor did in Georgia. Excellent work to him, and speedy recovery, but I think I will choose something ahead below 700FT in an airplane. He almost paid the ultimate price. Someone below posted 45 degrees is the best angle to execute this 180 and yes, it is. There are graphs/plots showing the least amount of altitude loss per given time in the maneuver through a 180 will occur between 40-50 deg. of bank.

Wind makes a huge difference too. Can be at 500ft while being 1000ft from the runway or 500ft and 3000ft away from the runway…..

Great vid man, I think you did a great job simulating it

This is Gold...God bless you.

I did practice this Impossible turn many times at about 500 ft. I am an ultralight pilot and it's a lot easier as the flight speed is much lower and you can basically turn on the spot...as long as you are fast enough to push the stick. The routine was push, turn again the wind (rarely dead in the track direction). The good thing with ultralight is that losing the engine is just normal and expected all the time once you manage to start it...

As usual, and excellent content! Yes my CFI likes to make this kind of exercise with me and repeat "nose down, nose down...". Where I practice (EDAZ), there are lot of forests and engine failure after takeoff should be tricky to manage. But we prepare that as you recommand. I would be happy to meet you this summer when we will make our vacation in California.

Headwind and density altitude make a big difference on the ground distance used climbing to 500 feet altitude.

Great video for preflight planning!

As a new pilot, I welcome these videos. Good info and good job. Thanks

Years ago a high time military instructor taught me how to exit a high altitude box canyon in a Cessna 172. Conventional training says go into slow flight with flaps and make a gentle 180 turn, which he said would get you killed. His approach was an Immelmann, if you had the power which a 172 does not. The next best option is as follows. If you have 300+ of air under you and have 65+ knots of air speed, immediately pull back to the vertical and before coming to a stop, kick the rudder full left or right and turn the aircraft back down the same angle you started from. As airspeed increases begin to pull back to level. You should be able to accomplish this with only a loss of 200 feet in altitude. We practiced that at 10,000 feet to see if I could meet the 200 ft loss limit. I succeeded !

Really good stuff. Good job.

Yeah I wouldn't attempt this turn back without around 6-700ft... Even then it needs to be well practiced. Definitely something I need to practice.

Good example and tips for all pilots. This is explains why its important to pair with an experienced CFI for training. I learned that experience matters in a career with 13 million miles of flying passengers.

great CFI & great lesson 👏

You inspire me to become a CFI. Thank you

All great advice and content. It was nice to see you attempt it yourself. Obviously us students respect your ability and surely experienced pilots as well. My CFI could have done more in this area of training but was a damned good instructor regardless. Pulling that throttle back when not keeping your hand on it is a great idea. I always love your content and teaching style. Keep it up.

Currently in instrument, just got done with PPL; I'm going to go through this with my CFII. Thank you.

Great advice! Thank you! I am going to ask my cfi to work with me on this.

At my flight school we teach landing straight ahead (within 30 degrees left or right of our nose) below 700ft AGL. I think your video does a great demonstration of why.

Good one mate.

Nice video, thanks for the reminders. Good to meet you the other day.

My instructor initiated several take off stall practice starting at 800, then 700, then 600, then 500 ft AGL. I learned at a crop dusting school. We practice some crazy stuff. Three to five seconds is a long time doing this emergency proceeder. That was 45 years ago and I am fortunate to have never had to use it!

Great topic, and a great video. One thing that always bothered me about this discussion is the need to push agressively forward to the extent of feeling zero G. You are not the only one who has stated this. I've heard this repeated by many others. I have done this exercise many times, and never saw the need to be agressive on the controls. Just releasing the controls will make the airplane reach its trimmed speed by itself. I teach students to relax the controls to let the airplane fly itself. In most GA planes, you cannot stall the airplane by releasing the controls, even if the trim is all the way up.

This topic should be revisited..I know of two such incidents in the last couple of weeks...too many!

During my PPL Checkride, I was asked to do an impossible turn at 500agl. The examiner asked me to climb at Vx in a 172, and it actually made the turn quite handily, to the extent that I had to execute a forward slip or I would've touched down too far down the runway.

It’s important to also note the importance of staying coordinated, especially when so close to the ground. You mentioned spins at 8:15 at least.

The longer the runway, the stronger the headwind, the lighter and slower the aircraft, the more possible the turn gets. Airspeed is key. So is a good pre takeoff briefing, including all these elements. Check!

Isn't it departure leg? (Upwind is different)

I agree, 100% and practicing this down to the altitude of which you won’t return. Every airplane and pilot are different so practicing in a specific aircraft is paramount. I’ve practice in my Rans as 21 and have been able to get it down to just shy of 250-300 feet.

Great video. I had an engine failure at 100 feet after takeoff. I remenber saying " "airspeed airspeed airspeed" as i made a gentle turn to my right and went down in an overgrown pasture which ripped my right gear off, spun me 90 degrees before i hit the ground. Walked away without a scratch on me due to the low stall speed of my AC, deceleration and shock absorption from the overgrown saplings in the field.

The two airports I primarily fly out of have open fields all around so I would definitely attempt to land in one of those if I didn’t have enough altitude to execute the impossible turn 😅

Tests in my Musketeer suggest an impossible turn becomes possible at about 900 feet AGL. It won't be pretty, and there isn't much margin, but I'd (probably) make it. I was also taught to keep my hand on the throttle until 1000 feet AGL. When I did a checkride in a 172 a couple of years ago the instructor threw several simulated engine failures at me. The big thing he was looking for was best glide speed - NOW - before doing anything else.

Another point to consider is a partial loss of power on takeoff. Had this happen not too long ago (with my CFI) and we easily made it back to the runway since we could still make some power. I now brief what direction I will turn (into whatever crosswind there is) so that my chance of making it back to the runway increases with a partial loss of power!

Great video Jason! But remember, it’s the DEPARTURE leg that we lose power/cut power on for simulated purposes. We’re not on the upwind unless we aren’t getting blown over there off the extended centerline. Lol.

I did a club checkout flight in Northern Finland and the FI made me practice the impossible turn. We were able to turn back consistently from 500 feet AGL (Cessna 172P, two people, airport more or less sea level). After the turn, we actually had to slip slightly to avoid overshooting the (long) runway, it was a pretty windy day. Seeing the ground rush up to you in that steep gliding turn was quite an experience.

An essential part of our pre takeoff briefing is what to in case of an EFATO. Returning to the airport is only considered above 1000ft AGL. My CFI regularly pulls the power after takeoff, just to keep me sharp.

This training and Steve from Flight chops video saved my life on a take off a few years back. Encountered carb ice event after rotating and climbing out over highway. I knew not to turn back, did gradual turns, and kept picking places to crash. What is your advice on application of carb heat after full throttle is applied? Do you recommend touching mixture? Thanks for the video. Stay safe.

My brother fly. I totally don't, but, for sure, I'd love it. This "saefety crash" course is a great valuable course I'm going to send it to my brother.... Hopefully, he won't do it "for fun" but with full preparedness. I have another brother who has full flight simulator program and gadget. I'll tell him to try it also. And, Thanks for the tips!!!

Excellent coverage of the considerations of possible turns and the impossible turn. Eleven of my thirteen engine failures happened below 200' AGL, so many possible but no impossible turns. Concerning startle, I had the advantage of them happening mostly crop dusting and patrolling pipeline in tired small airplanes. I expected to have an engine failure every time I went out. Concerning the push to unload the wing, which I totally agree with for those using Vx or Vy as appropriate, I never had to do that. My default was acceleration in low ground effect, all the way to cruise in crop fields and on long runways and then pitch up only enough to just clear any obstructions I could not rudder turn around. For low altitude orientation, 17,000 hours of which I flew, I teach never pitch up without zoom reserve airspeed for maneuvering. Zoom reserve airspeed works with or without engine power. For turns I teach default relaxing all back pressure in all turns. Thus all turns are 1 g, regardless of bank angle. Again good lesson. What you covered I always had and only broke three of the aircraft: Cobra in combat, Pawnee turnover in soft field, and I poisoned myself enough to mess up a forced landing in a CallAir and cartwheeled it. I was so far behind the airplane in that one that it should have killed me, but it just broke the right wing spar in two places and tore the engine off with little damage to the rest of the airplane and none to me. Until we get that thousand feet, airspeed and not altitude is life. I instructed but left the prep for the PTS/ACS Vx or Vy as appropriate to other instructors because along with doing so much low work, I just couldn't make myself go there. I really disagree with teaching as default a technique that is almost never appropriate. Even though we left max loaded from mostly short strips spraying, we always gleaned every inch of low ground effect energy possible and never overflew obstructions by more than a few feet. The farmer said I had hit a tree more than once, but it was only down wash. Safe maneuvering flight techniques kept me alive.

Obviously depends on aircraft type/model, wind/weather, density altitude and how much you have your aircraft loaded etc.

I taught EFATO and LOTOT turnbacks to many in the 1990's. It depends on weight and winds mostly. And practice. I had to do one partial power from 300 agl, and 3 i know had to do with bad engines partial powr from 400 and 700 agl. Those were done on short wing cherokees and C150. We had houses around the airport. No power i taught on my cherokee 150hp from 800 agl but only if climbed at over 700 fpm. You cannot do no power EFATO Turnback if did a shallow climb.. You wont reach the airport and will be An Impossible Turnback.

I had an engine failure on climbout at 600 ft in a light sport. The "startle effect" is real. After that, I pushed the nose down and turned cross-wind and then downwind. Once I had reached about 100 ft, I turned base, then quickly final - landing on the same runway I took off from. My instructor always taught me to circle, not to do the impossible turn. I have never seen a video that shows that.

Great video, very good advice, can be life saving! Thanks so much. It is quite difficult to learn this reflex, which is the opposite of what most non professional pilots or wannabe pilots like me, would do, keeping it level, when you have to actively enforce a dive in order not to stall and stay in control! Please make sure when you try this closer to the ground to inform the tower beforehand to avoid heart attacks from watching you! Also try stuff like that on a modern simulator first to get a feel for what is theoretically possible before you do this in real life near the ground. And make sure you know the best glide speed of your aircraft to maximize the range and turn into the wind, making the radius smaller in order to hopefully make it back without a damage. If the runway is busy or difficult to reach, but the taxiway is not, do a Harrison Ford and land on it, since this is not about playing by the rules, it is about surviving and minimizing damage.

Glider training requires a return to field after a 200' rope break. I've done one pre-solo and I actually had to worry about how much runway was remaining. I had an instructor on board and up at about 6000' DA. It came in handy one day at a negative DA day in a 150 where I had a 150' engine failure and I almost had to put it on a taxiway. Luckily the engine came back and stayed but the pitch over was eye-opening for sure, as well as how engrained my emergency procedures were. I recommend glider training in pretty much all cases now.

That CFI had balls of steel.

The CFI did what he had to. I am glad the airports around the part of New Mexico I would be flying in are desert with few obstacles. The Albuquerque airports have open areas, Socorro is the same way, Interstate is an option at a couple airports. The high density altitude, especially in the summer would be an issue.

6:25 You began this scenario with "If the engine stalls at 1000ft" ... crossing the 2000 mark isn't even an option at this point.

Great topic... I think statistics lie to us here though. The ones who make it don't always end up in a report... But almost all the ones that don't get reported. THAT said, if you practice this enough, I don't think there is harm if the altitude AGL is within your personal minimums. My home airport is boxed in by freeways, so I intend to take my students on a drive around them to identify hazards... Can't hurt.

Great video and topic. I'm surprised there's no mention in the video or the comments below on the Possible Turn articles/webinars by Barry Schiff years ago or Brian Schiff more recently. I think these will end up being classic. (Both explicitly state however, as you do, that the turnback should not be attempted except when landing straight ahead is not a viable option). Brian even has a worksheet describing the technique and where you can plug in the numbers for altitude lost, height at the end of the runway, and adding 50% to the altitude lost as a cushion for other factors. They recommend a climb between Vx and Vy as a compromise between too high an AOA (Vx) and too great a distance from the runway (Vy). They recommend a 45 degree bank at Vbg for an optimal, safe turn radius. (Master CFI Russ Still told me that in a descending 1G turn, laws of physics dictate that the airplane must accelerate, and to arrest this, back pressure is required in the same amount as required in a level banked turn of the same bank angle. In this gliding banked turnback he says use enough back pressure to fly at Vbg to control the airspeed, though he prefers a 30 degree bank for a safer margin above stall.) The other thing the Schiffs recommend is that the pilot is proficient in the maneuver, and that requires recurrent practice AT ALTITUDE in the airplane you typically fly. Personally, I think that practicing this real-time after takeoff, should be left to the experts such as you or those in the AOPA video demonstration. Otherwise, a good alternative is practicing the maneuver in a good full motion simulator such as the Redbird FMX, as I've spent several hours doing. Finally, unless the maximum rate of climb in fpm is dramatically greater than the maximum glide rate of descent in fpm you'll have difficulty getting back to the runway. A Bonanza is a good example of this difficulty whereas it's well within the capability of other high performance airplanes such as a Mooney.

The impossible turn is all about climb gradient (ft/ mile) vs power off descent gradient (ft/ mile). It has some to do with runway length. It has almost nothing to do with altitude (300 or 500 or 1000), especially on a straight out. I am not an instructor (yet!) but I am hoping we start talking about these variables and come up with some basic set of rules to help pilots -- these rules can be applied on the ground (part of takeoff brief). The challenge (and this is where you can help!) has been how to take the relatively complex math (I am working on a spreadsheet) and figure out a simplification such that it can be used as thumb rules. Happy to talk. But without the actual variables at play ... pretty much all material on this is hard to use.

Perhaps airports should be required to own an empty field at an appropriate distance from the airport to allow for a safe landing if there is an engine failure on takeoff.

I also like practicing salvageable bad approaches/landings incase you don't get a second chance. It's really good to differentiate when to go-around and what can be saved. Obviously, when in doubt go around!

Funny you chose KHWD as your visual example of an airport with limited options. That’s my home airport and I’ve always been concerned about the lack of options there. The golf course is too close to the runway to be realistic in most cases. I think about the marshy section along the coast of the bay as the best option below 800 to 1000 feet. What do you think?

Well AOPA's Richard McSpadden a propionate of the impossible turn, recently died trying to make the impossible turn. I'm pretty sure if he can't do it in a cessna and 20,000 plus hours flying, there is little or no chance of me doing it in my Mooney. So I will still with 30 degrees left and right looking for a safe place to land.

My brief is 700 ft agl with 1 pax onboard. 600 alone. And knowing the wx is soooo important. I think we need to bump up the standards for ppl on wx, check lists, briefings and require the 3 t'n'g every 45 days not 90.

Those were Possible Turnbacks not "Impossible Turns". Lets Be clear. Pilots cannot be confused guys.

Feb 23 2021, I lost my engine after take off departing LVK 7L, and I was 100 feet AGL my only option was a highway overpass, and on roll out I had a rear end collision with a car. No injuries and a clean flying record, thankfully.

Great video - just note it’s the departure leg not upwind

How's the status on PP online ground school for windows and android?

Thank you Jason! You are my RU-vid CFI. I am not a pilot, but I have enjoyed studying GA. I have been observing the “impossible turn” topic and the pilot decision of choices of “never attempt” to possibly “consider”. @zach’ comment notes from the ASI’s video that certain aircraft (and conditions) give a little more favorable probability of performing this maneuver. High wing aircraft in the sample (Cub/Cessna 172) satisfactorily performed the turn (at various altitudes). The only low wing aircraft, Bonanza struggled in the test. Since altitude and distance appear to be key variables, wouldn’t it always be good consideration to choose the “best angle-of-climb” vs “best rate-of-climb” as possibly achieving higher altitude and minimum distance from the airport to raise the probability of making the impossible turn more possible?

That’s why I use full length of the runway, so during engine failure I can land on remaining runway under me with full flaps.

Can you do a video if you have to land straight ahead or do an emergency landing and trees or water are your only option what is the best approach for that. What is better to pick trees or water? IDK.

Today lake placid.

Many so called "Experienced Pilots" are not experienced on Turnbacks Maneuvers, Be on GRM or EFATO. So that experience on other easier to do maneuvers DOES NOT COUNT WHEN YOU DO TURNBACKS. Same with accelerated stalls, go arounds from flare with flaps while turning, spins and aerobatics. That is why they crash on those maneuvers. IE; "It's a different kind of flying" (Altogether) LOL. I used to teach all the above maneuvers when CFI for 9 years. Airline pilots were the worst on those maneuvers when on singles.

Without being silly and you have enough height to make the turn and have the runway in front of you it is not impossible. However, if you've been told that the turn is impossible and you have never practiced it, then when you see the groundspeed increasing and you are flooded with adrenaline then your brain will shut down and all you want is for the groundspeed to slow - hence stall spin. The secret is practice, practice, practice and adopt the aircraft standard of DMMS (defined minimum manoeuvre speed) and being pushed by Dan Gryder to get it adopted for GA.

Best way to know what your plane can and cannot do, is try it, at altitude. haha.

I see SO MANY ppl pilots even some with an IR silently doing chk lists and skipping briefings.

I want to get my wife rated with at least a Sport license before I rent a plane and the two of us set off on a cross country vacation somewhere. But man, I dread the day she has to experience a simulated engine out.

i TAUGHT TURNBACKS in the 1990's. To about 20 students then i went to fly private jets than dont do them. I put a blue line on airspeed indicator and an altimeter marker on altimeter.

it's important to note that the impossible turn is more than 180 degrees. it's more like 360 if you draw it out. A 180 degree turn would put you parallel to the runway. maybe 500 to 1000 ft away. you need to turn more than 180 deg. to get back toward runway centerline and then turn again in the opposite direction to level out. It is only a 180 change in direction.

can you share the make and source of the IPAD yoke mount

I always wondered if it would be possible to do and aggressive 180 with full aileron and rudder. Something like a hammerhead stall turn. I would love to teu this at altitude. Thoughts?

Great video. I have your app currently. We tried this last week in 97-100* weather. My question is should I turn into or away from the cross wind? Also, we were very close to making the runway. Muscle memory and immediate turn and best glide we did.

Good demo, Thank you

the _improbable_ turn

These turns can be impossible no matter what technique you use. Many light aircraft will have departure angles that are shallower than their glide angle. This is through things like high weight, high density altitude, low power, and no wind. You aren’t making it back to the runway at any altitude unless you made a turn with power.

Seaplanes, rise up (or settle down, as it were).

I'm a former bush pilot with a low level rating. I found in a cessna 172 it's possible to achieve this turn above 300ft agl. The ground shy reaction is real it makes people not fly the plane to the ground. Nose down and turn with the stall warning on but aircraft not stalled and the stronger the head wind on take off the further you will get towards the runway.

YOU NEED TO KNOW TURNBACKS.- Not only for EFATO. You need turnbacks also on Circling Approaches, Flyover Turnbacks, Box Canyon turnbacks, overhead airport to enter the 45 after. Many accidents on those 5 places were the pilot made turnback errors and crashed. His fault- for not knowing Turnbacks well. A 180 is not a full turnback, just an U Turn. Turnbacks are bigger turns that finish at almost or the same place you were before. A course reversal, not just a heading reversal 180 turn. Turnbacks are more than a 180. Many CFI's call a 180 a turnback. No its not. TO TEACH TURNBACKS; It is better to teach "Turnbacks To A Flyover" FIRST. The GRM TURNBACKS first, then the emergency and circling ones later on after you do them level flight well. I taught them all 2 decades ago and researched about the accidents causes on them a lot. Most pilots dont know those maneuvers well and do them very wrong, or stall and crash. Even ATPs crashes. 1-The Teardrop Turnback to a flyover a spot on ground do it first. Fly at Vglide speed slow flight over highway (w. a Crosswind). With flaps 10 degrees. 1,000' agl. Fly over spot on highway, turn away from wind 40 degr. , then into wind. Fly over the spot on highway again, after flyover repeat same steps on other side. Do 3 on each side until perfection Teardrop Turnbacks. One turn turnbacks require 2k feet dist. from flyover spot. Dont do them yet. Those are more difficult and dangerous. Later on i will type about those Hook Turnbacks. Cropdusters do them only after getting low in weight. I used to call them Question Mark Shaped Turnbacks. 2k distance after flyover, Vglide speed, bank 45 degr. more later on that QMark ? Turnback. 2-Then Box Canyon Turnbacks Scenario (Climbing Vx but at 60% power only to sim a 10k density alt.) Then the Circling Approach overfly + Turnback, then the LOTOT Turnbacks and no power EFATO at end. Some day you will have to do those maneuvers. Some say to keep the ignorance. But Ignorance is not the solution, IGNORANCE IS THE PROBLEM. Most pilots that crashed doing turnbacks on those 5 places were Turnback ignorant 1

Besides this all, your prop is idle but not giving drag - as it would on a seizure or whatever

I often wonder if there is an optimal angle of bank where the maximum turn rate vs altitude lost is achieved.

It's easy in a 172. Try it from 1000 AGL in a grossed out A36 or SR22...

1:30 What study or studies are you citing with the 99.9% figure?

I practice this regularly, best I can do in my 601 is 500’. Period. End of story.

Its always better to do it at min 700ft AGL with 2 people on board on standard 172.

With total engine failure, more drag is produced when idling than when you practise by pulling the throttle. My last engine failure 6 months ago in a Tomahawk from 700 feet i departed runway 22 and turned left and landed on runway 34. Most important thing was to take control from student and stuff the nose down for 80 kts and turn. Then wings level glided at 75kts not best glide 70 as there is no margin of error, nothing to play with. Landed no problem. Seems like water in fuel.

KISS, keep it simple stupid, so much of this depends on aircraft type, weather conditions, other traffic, and pilot currency, always think its best to go ahead and just keep it simple, for most of the airfields I have flown from this always seemed to be the best option based on the above. Still think it's better to risk hitting something slowly with a zero or low rate of descent rather than hitting it at high speed with a very high rate of descent., but you pay your money you take your choice