REAMING: Titanium Threaded Bike Frame engineered in England by Clowns 

would be great if you showed the actual process of fixing (centering, cutting a new thread etc.) in the video

Love those 105 door knobs. I use them on my house doors.

My Boardman BB shell decided to part ways with it's buddy, the frame. Local engineers - VERY well respected in the one-off motorcycle frame-building world - said the frame had clearly not been stress-relieved which led directly to the catastophic fracture. Frame was toast, was advised that welding would be throwing good money after bad. Have read that this is not an isolated occurrence. That was the last Boardman I ever bought.

That was an AWESOME video!!! 👏👏👏 P.S. Would have loved to see how you corrected the oval shaped threading as much as possible. Not complaining, of course, just very much enjoy watching how you attack such issues. Update: I just saw that you already addressed this. Taking those secrets to the grave. Understood. 👍

BB shells almost always deform when welded. You have four welds occurring there practically around the entire circumference. And most of them are threaded during production and arrive at the frame builder with threads. Chasing threads & facing the BB shell is a basic procedure for a high-end bike build. Shame they didn't do this one prior to assembly. That said, Ti is notoriously hard to work, especially if that's a 6/4 BB shell. Pressurized water is used to cut many 6/4 Ti bits. Again, the frame mfgr. SHOULD have done this. So it would have been nice to see how Hambini remedied it. My friend's Salsa from when Ross Shafer was welding them had the same issue. Salsa assured my friend the BB shell had been prepped. But premature BB failure and visual inspection confirmed it hadn't. Easy to rectify on metal bikes with the proper tools.

ive been thinking about building a bike this summer, honestly at this stage; i am paranoid about buying a frame cause i watch way to many of these "the BB shell is garbage" vids :)

It always frustrates me how you skip over a simple clear summary of what was physically wrong and what you actually did to fix it. The viewer has to try and join the dots which is frustrating… In this one it’s not clear where the damage came from… were the “higher” teeth cutting in to the shells and damaging / distorting them ? Did you just round off the high spots on the NDS, retap with a bit more slop and then fix your properly aligned BB with some goo to gum up the gaps ? Good fix anyway, shame they can’t take more care in the first place. BSA should be the easiest design to engineed correctly.

Honestly chasing and facing threaded BB's fixes 99% of all problems I've encountered. That is something most competent shops have the tooling for and ability to accomplish.

I decided on smashing the like button, well the choices were very limited 🤣 👍👌

Surely made in Taiwan is better than made in UK these days. Taipei looks like it's from the future, where as our greatest engineer is a 5 year old who fixes bicycles.

He also needs a serious bike fit, or does he like a high polish on the crank?

When a spin test doesn't go well, you know the spin test is showing its value.

I assemble bikes for another brand in the UK who also source their titanium frames in the Far East. I'm ashamed to say, almost every titanium frame I work with has this problem. I haven't the skills to fix it though, and my employer doesn't seem interested. Don't buy cheap ti frames .

When you buy a high volume factory produced bike what you pay does not go the craftsman making the bike. It goes to a corporation. The bike industry operates on MARKETING. They create an illusion of carefully made product with no corners cut in search of performance. These hyped-up concepts of high quality factory work are pervasive in every industry, and they're promoted by industries that want you to think that they are more than they really are. Low budget, low quality, low bid, and lots of hype and advertising. Get the product out the door as fast as possible with as little investment as possible. Cut corners on safety, insurance, retirement, and quality to save a buck. And all those extras: advertising departments, management, safety and loss control, insurance, human resources, unions, and even the company goat roast at the lake is paid for by your purchase. You might be surprised to realize how little of the money you pay goes into the materials and labor used to create the factory bike in your hands. And the moron bike consumer keeps buying it.

I stumbled onto this refreshing channel and it hilarious to see some shoddy bike engineering as though the forces are so small nothing will get rogered. It is actually quite intricate to jig a bike and get it centred accurately and then fit stuff so that it is square. There are big forces/torques going through the critical components and it is easy to roger them with small misaligments.

Great video. As one of the customers less fit friends I’m eager to watch for improvement on the road.

I felt a little bit hurt watching this video. I've been riding a CDF Ti for the past 5 years - an earlier model to the one shown. It was my first road bike after owning many MTB's. Unless you count the crap wheel hubs, that I quickly swapped out for a pair of Hopes, I can't fault it.

Crap de Fer - meaning iron-shit. Not a bad name at all. I loved your "family friendly" restraint when describing the advantages of ceramic bearings at 13:35

Owner of that bike still needs to sort out the disk rub. Good god riding that thing must be like riding sandpaper.

The break disk rubs because the caliper either hasn't been set up correctly or the pistons are sticking.

I have a Ti frame 0 and man do those welds by the BB look like pure shite. wow..

I find that a duck’s opinion of me is very much influenced over whether or not I have bread.

A spin test can't tell you definitively that it's good, but it sure can tell you when it's bad.

The brake rotor noise can be solved in about 20 seconds with a little bending.

I heard Phil Collins welds them in Taiwan with his pal Stevie Wonder, obvs Stevie welded this one. 👍🏿

How the hell can you tell it hasn't been stress relieved just by looking at it??? Please explain!

Come on, that disk break rubs because is not set properly and that disc doesn't seem to have met the soap/degreaser in his life to date. A classic break would do the same if you don't maintain it.

I've heard really good things about Genesis in regards to their customer service and support - in particular from a friend who managed to break his frame somewhere in SE Asia during an around-the-world ride. They sent him a new frame, no questions asked, all the way across the globe to him. It's disappointing to see this sort of manufacturing fault from them, but I'm curious to know if he contacted them about it and if he did; what did they have to say about it? Interesting and educational video either way!

Frame jigs, for the most part only retain the alignment if the frame (within the bounds of jig accuracy/stiffness & opperater skill) they generally can not stop tube destortion and/or shrinkage of materials due to welds. What can "help reduce" distortion, out of round, etc are heatsinks in the form of an bronze expanding mandrel with back purge. I have no clue how your able to tell on a frame made from Ti, steel, stainless or ally visually if it's been "Stress Relieved" as you keep talking about (unless there was an obvious blackening/blueing of the steel), especially as most frames are painted, and in raw Ti or Stainless its brushed, polished or bead blasted. Yes PWHT absolutely has to happen in Aluminium frame building, less so in steel as its usually 4130 or a derivative of that with additional elements like Niobium, Ti, molybdenum etc to gain differing properties. Even highly stressed parts like chassis, suspension arms, roll-cages etc are not heat treated in 4130 or similar unless it's thicker than 3-4mm. Also, during the tube manufacturing process for most bicycle specific tube sets/materials (not aluminium) the final temper of the material is gained through drawing. When TIG welding or brazing tube like this the temper of the tube is deminished (typically anneiled slightly) and a high level of operator skill is required to create a sound weldment whilst limiting the reduction in desired tube characteristics. PWHT in many cases would, when above AC1 temp for carbon steel (high carbon equivalency) create a totally different grain structure to the material, (as its closer to the utectic point) this may be undesirable. Some steel tubes from manufacturers like Reynolds, Tange, Columbus, Dedachi (spelling) do produce some tubes that are heat treated as part of the tube manufacturing process but not as a requirement of frame production. Many big manufacturers can and do PWHT things like high end bmx or jump bike frames in 4130, but as most manufacturers in Ti and Stainless are smaller volume and often entirely bespoke builds they don't always PWHT frames. Many builders in steel tube as "bespoke frame builders" use Fillet or Lug Braze, the temperatures to melt the Bronze and Silver solders is typically between 450°C - 700°C (and again volume of production counts here too), with AC1 being C. 720°C this makes brazed or Silver Soldered frames impossible. Of course we're slightly going apples to oranges here, between bespoke one-off builds and maufacting of thousands of the same model. But my point still holds. The majority of bikes on the mass production lines of even the best manufacturers are either Aluminium or Carbon Fiber as you know. Aluminium usually needs a full anneile process post weld, prior to any reaming, facing, alignment etc, then is sent to be solution treated to artificially age the material back to - T6. Incase anyone thinks ima some ranting crackpot, I'm 15 years in the trade, welded for defence, nuclear, scientific instruments, a very large folding bike brand in the uk, have my own business and have built multiple steel frames with TIG, brass and silver. Great videos as usual.

Imagine spending all that money on a bike, only for Hambini to call it F*@ked 😭😭😭

You make a lot of great points in the video...actually all your videos. I will make one counterpoint however. You are fixing outliers. The only frames you measure and fix are the ones that people have problems with. I think to truly say a particular brand is crap you really need a statistically significant sample to verify the quality. To pass judgement on an entire brand based on n=1 is not really an accurate assessment. That said your videos are awesome and extremely entertaining.

Next you'll be telling me I need to stress-relieve my frame made of Reynolds/Columbus/Dedacciai TIG-welded alloyed-steel bicycle frame tubing. Serious BB thread "Tapping" tools have a very solid alignment shaft to align the left-side tap to the right-side tap. As a framebuilder, I cannot buy an untapped BB shell. I can however buy a whole range of tapped BB shells. The premier worldwide supplier of Ti BB shells sells only ...... threaded BB shells. The distortion you see there (which is pretty awful) would have been dealt with by a proper sharp BB-tapping tool (but you wouldn't have gotten to sell one of your BB's .... wink). The thread would have become "looser", however when the ends which no doubt were not parallel were also faced (with the professional tool which also has a dirty great alignment shaft in it too....), the final result is that there is enough wiggle-room in the thread for the cups to be held in alignment when they clamp against the perfectly-squared "faced" edges of the BB shell. If you *think* a loose BB shell thread "might" result in a stripped thread, then you need to look at cheap steel frames made in.... taiwan. They have "loose" threads and they do not strip. They don't get tight-fitting cups when moderate distortion is present. Nor do they appear to face the BB shell.... a mass-production shortcut. My 2 cents as full-time framebuilder and degree'd mechanical engineer. BTW, I do not know of a titanium frame made "in the west" that goes anywhere near heat after welding.... The biggest problem with titanium frames is the failure to use butting (which is very common in "steel" frame tubes) to adequately address points of localised stress-concentration.... i.e. the welds. Why don't steel frames need the incredibly-precise welds that Ti frames apparently do....? Simple answer; this frame was clearly not tapped post-welding with a sharp, self-aligning BB thread tap tool. Cyclus, Park, Unior make 'em.

Though a custom bike maker is also working for profit, he has a lower overhead and higher attention to quality. A good custom maker should constantly examine all the facets of the frame individually, comparing how these operations and results interact with each other, improving his skill and execution on every single bike. He is solely responsible for every part of the frame and its quality, function, and essential value, therefore, most custom makers make bikes far superior to factory frames. Not to mention easy access to the frame builder if there is an issue. But consumers are willing to pay more for cheaply produced, poor quality factory made frames. Because they are stupid.

did genesis participate in any way to fix this problem ? did they reimburse anything under warranty ? a ti frame is not cheap so you would think they are trying their best to make sure the clients are satisfied specially if the frame has a lifetime warranty as stated on their website ! what about all the other frames they produce .... same problem ? maybe a partnership with you would be cheaper than a full recall !

I would have enjoyed watching you go through the process of correcting the defect - i.e. find the center and re-tap the threads. perhaps next time?

Have you got any plans to show us your Time Scylon soon? Is it built yet?

Hambini needs to apply some of that Mobile to his poor dry hands!

This vid just affirms my own experience that while there are plenty of poorly made CF framesets out in the market there are also boatloads of poor quality alloy frames even from builders who are supposedly “great builders”!

The idea that that skinny little aluminum tube in the BB “aligned the two cups in spite of them being aligned in the threads and off the face of the BB, is crazy. Interesting concept that might work if it were steel, but the Al tube doesn’t have the stiffness to deflect the larger diameter titanium BB.

I have a Genesis Croix de Fer Steel frame from 2015 and I weld my own steel frames. I have had no issue with my Genesis frame. It is still running on the same original Shimano BB hand has probably about 10000km of all weather commuting on it. At least on the steel frames I build it impossible to fit a threaded BB without cutting the thread after the welding. That might be different for machine welded frames but for my hand tig welded steel frames it is impossible. So they have to be cut after welding. I also don't stress relieve my frames (steel). I assume that no small shop custom built frames are stress relieved. You would have to do the stress relieve in the oven with the frame still in the jig. Frames are typically not welded in the jig. The jig is only used for the tacking and the frame is then removed and welded completely outside of the jig. It is the quality of the welder that keeps a frame straight, not the jig. Loosing that much power in the BB seems unreasonable. What you can see in the spin test is hard a single watt that is needed to spin the crank. Of course that might differ under load. However to actually loose that much power that you get dropped by someone who is usually slower than you is hard to believe. It would need 30 to 50 watts of loss on the BB to get that kind of resistant. That kind of power would really heat up the bearings and probly even destroy it quickly. In addition it would be really hard to turn the crank by hand. And it would stop instantly when you don't push anymore. Its probably more a mind thing that he thinks that he is losing out to the because of the BB. You probably won't win the tour de France with this BB but most people wouldn't really notice it while riding.

Hambini, love your content and your attitude! People seem to have lost the capability to think straight and I love how you expose all this overrated and overpriced trash on the bike market. Keep up the good work! 👏👏👏

Hambini, You have shaken my faith in 3 cycling "values" 1, Ti is cool 2, Threaded bottom brackets rule! 3, Buy Foreign Parts through an importer (it gives you someone local to shout at, if there is a problem)! I might have to give up on the idea of N+1? (That's a joke) 😅🤣😂😅🤣😂😅🤣😂

The decal on the seattube reminds me of back in the day when many, if not all, mountain bikes had frame decals that said "Designed in California," with the state flag on them and the location of manufacture listed underneath, which in the beginning used to be "Made in California" or one of the state's counties, or even "Made in the USA." This changed over the years to "Made in Japan," "Made in Taiwan," then "Made in China" as the demand for such things grew along with the need to cut corners and improve profit margins. There are probably still a couple companies that are cheeky enough to do this or "Designed in USA", in which the fact "designed" means that somebody here selected components out of a manufacturer's or supplier's catalog, maybe ordered a different color and artwork - and that would be the extent of the "designing" performed. Which is what we have here with this frame. Which is why I'll never have another job in the bike biz.

TPI = threads per inch?

As we've seen in a couple other videos: steer far clear of budget titanium. Any potential benefits over other materials are clearly outweighed by crap manufacturing.

Why would a builder who cared about doing things right, not thread a BB after the weld? And not relieve in frame tension? If the frame is perfectly aligned upon being welded or brazed, would it have in frame tension?

Wow, I stumbled across this video a week or two ago. I just happened to be ordering a custom made titanium frame off of Alibaba and when they told me that they would begin welding the next day, since I saw this video, I let them know that I want to make sure that the BB is still round and not oval after welding. Today the company messaged me that the weld did not turn out properly, that the BB became oval. So now instead of creating a new BB that is CNC'd 2mm, they are going to 3d print the BB to 2.1mm and they believe that the slight increase in thickness will prevent the ovalizing. I asked if they thread the BB before or after welding and according to them it's before :| I sent the person a link to this video, not sure if they also do the stress relief. How can you tell whether the BB area was stress relieved or not?

Love your fix... Would buy your BB someday , the only problem is it's half the price of my bike 😊... Can you do a video on LLB wheelset bearing Vs normal bearing how much is the actual gain due to less friction and for holding the speed

Proctologically speaking , reaming must be a real pain the ass; I thought you said the t47 solution or equivalent precluded the reaming. The cartridge bottom bracket is ingenious and well explained as to how it works. So I wasn't sure if you needed 2ream. Always great videos. Thanks

A pet hate of mine is "badging" products country of origin. In my opinion it should be banned. Christie Towels, for example, Union Flag all over them, made in Pakistan. Why not just say "Christie: Pakistan". The quality is top notch, and apart from the warehouse the towels went to, there's no UK input in them. It's the mills and sewing machinists in Pakistan that made a great product.

I’m enjoying the bike so far ru-vid.comUgkxMesz3KOGEmwmvyKQfLfrRSUXLFzfVHZA My only real complaints are the brakes and the pedals. I feel like a bike designed for bigger people should have much larger pedals and more heavy duty brakes. I’ve only gotten two really good rides out of it, minimal downhill action, and the brakes feel like they’re already going out. A larger person has more momentum, so I think this wasn’t thought through very well. Also, I wear size 13-14 wide shoes. My feet cramp up on these pedals that are clearly made for smaller feet. Since I’m not a pro rider (and I don’t think many are who purchase this bike) I don’t think that the straps on the pedal are necessary at all. None of this takes away from the enjoyment I get from riding, however. I’ll just head to a bike shop to improve on a few things.

Anyone noticed how fucking shite Brake pads are nowadays ,,, Back in the day .,,, I never had to buy multiple pads ..because I knew i'd get my moneys worth . Now i have buy Multipule pads because they never last , I changed the pads before xmas... and it's not even fucking March and am having to change them again . Pads for Motorbikes last fucking longer

I've been a boilermaker/ welder since I was 16 years old I'm now 58 To put a butt weld in this context as this presenter did is Way off the mark There is not a butt weld in sight They are all fillets That is obvious Best show distortion on a fillet weld Instead because that's what's involved here I do understand whatever happened here was bad practice For sure Best practice is start with more wall thickness ( just a little maybe a mm or max 2 ) Stress relieve and machine thread after But that is more costly But the proper way Even if u did machine it first and stress relieve it It would still have a little residual stress in it Better yes but not perfect by any means and a lottery on quality Still I don't know why somebody would create something from such a spectacular and beautiful material and then Do half a job on the important parts Other than lack of means in the factory obviously there is teirs in manufacturing And this company decided to use a lower teir manufacturer Or the fab company in Taiwan decided to cut corners and pull one over Shame other n that nicely fabbed bike Out of round bosses = Shiite alright Credit where it's due though He got a better result somewhat

i would love to hear your thoughts on the Ibis Hakka MX. it is a carbon frame with a threaded BB.

That was spinning lovely when you finished. All Sixes. Keep ban_ing your hairdresser.

I'd like to know your thoughts on TITUS Goldrush ti frames sold by a certain Shefield bike store PX.

Every touring bicycle needs a Shimano Nexus 8s or even a 14 speed Rohloff, not a derailer.

Don't mind discs, if you want zero rub, change to mechanical discs, discs extend wheel life, basically to indefinite, in any case couple watts of rub is neither here nor there Chris froome

I always thought the brake Disc is cut to clear water/dirt better and maybe if very hot reduce a bit fading… air cushion reduction….

The disc rubbing is poor alignment of the brake caliper and/or a disc that needs truing, basically just poor maintenance.

The Union Jack with the 'Made in Taiwan' underneath bit... ah, Globalisation!

Hambini has destroyed all of my trust in brands. This frame is an expensive shitshow….

What a rip off by genesis. I always thought they made them here in the uk. That has really pissed me off. I bought one on the premise it’s pure British.

Nicely done! As requested, smashed your fanny button and went to screw myself...

Could not agree more that ceramic bearings are absolute bullshit. It's marketing at its best and way too many fools are sucked in

16:38 I'm unclear what work was carried out to fix it at this point. Can't rebore then re-thread the BB I presume as it would be too big to re-thread? Some tool that forcibly re-bores by re-cutting threads around the given datum whatever the existing bore location and shape? More PowerPoint slides needed...

So what gave u the impression the frame hadn't had stress relief on the welds? Not questioning ur judgement , just curious if there was any tell tale signs? Cheers

Could you do a break down of the original steel orange clockwork frame from 1995?

Do you ever show good bikes? like, what's the point of just shitting on everything?

I guess you got your PowerPoint skills from Skillshare.

It is normal for threaded BB shells to be threaded before welding. Just go to Paragon Machine Works' catalog and see for yourself. You do use heatsinks while welding up a titanium frame to minimize heat distortion. There will be some distortion and then you face and chase the BB shell afterwards. I only build steel frames so I can't speak towards needing stress relief of titanium frames, but it is certainly not the norm for custom steel frames to be heat treated after building them, and not possible for brazed frames. I only braze my frames, which I braze out of the jig after tacking. You don't use heatsinks for brazing and there's always some BB shell distortion. After facing and chasing the shell, the BB runs smooth and creak free, better than any commercial frames I've had, so they perhaps don't face and chase as thoroughly as they should. Facing and chasing is done by a combo tool that does both operations along the same axis. It isn't particularly complicated or interesting and is a small part of building a frame.

I’m really curious about what Madison are doing here. Is the bike owner claiming these costs back through the retailer and the retailer is claiming from Madison? I’d be royally pissed if I had to spend out to correct shitty frame putting-togetherness that shouldn’t have left the factory.

Hey, Hambini. Awesome video. I own a bike that a friend gave me not too long ago, but I can't find any information on it. I was wondering if you know anything about it. It's a rigid mtb. It says Pinnacle Everest with an oversized Cromoly (not chromoly) frame made in Taiwan. My friend told me it was a Titanium frame but I can't really tell. I'm trying to decide if I should sell it or keep it as it seems to be a late 80's or maybe a 90's mountain bike. I don't really know if its a good quality bike or "meh".

Kroykz, its pronounced kroykz. trust me iv been to belgium once, very drunk

Ive seen this on ytube, can this bloke talk, in fact if this presentation of show, the hole thing seems talk

Cool! How much do you charge for this type of work?

Square taper cartridge…? They self align too right?

A magician never reveals his ticks. And Hambini aged 5 has Wizard sleeves🧙‍♀️

Anyone had experience with their steel frames, same story with them?

Thanks!

Greetings Taxi magnet, Has anyone brought to your attention the long term health hazard of touching sleeve- retainer/ lock-tite / anti-seize..? Don’t touch that stuff ! Also why does your hair always look the same despite regular trips to the hair-dresser..?!?

I bought a Genesis CdF Ti 3 years ago and it rides really well. There were three faults in the build up by the retailer. 15mm bushes in the front wheel for a 12mm thru axle, a spacer on the freewheel that shouldn't have been there for a sram cassette and the brake pads in the rear caliper were the wrong way round so the retaining pin did not go through the holes but sat above the pads. The sram red brake calipers were poor and have been replaced with Hope. When I took the drive train off to clean all the parts a few weeks ago I left the shells in but didn't notice any problem with free rotation of the cranks before I took them off and after I put them back on. Altogether, my problems have been with the components and the frame has been fine so far and the whole set up provides a comfortable ride. There was no discomfort experienced on a 100 mile ride at all. The one thing about the frameset that I don't particularly like is the mounting points for the front mudguard being halfway up the inside of the fork legs. Putting the mounting points there made fitting a front mudguard particularly awkward.

Threads not teeth blinkin' hell.😺 Edit PS innit? And who cares?

Verzug im Rahmen, wird meist durch den schlecht schweißenden Schweißer verursacht. Eine gute Ausbildung und viel Erfahrung gewährleistet gute Verarbeitung. Titan gerade 9. hat die nötigen Spezifikation für Rahmenbau, leider auch mit am teuersten. Nur Made in Germany garantiert für professionell verarbeiteten Bauteilen!

As always. Great stuff. Simple solution when you have the engineering to carry out the fix. Happy owner I am sure.

Great content! Hambini, can you please make a video on what to look for, when a customer is about to buy a bike? Either a new, or a used bike. Some basic tips on instructions, what to look for etc. How to spot serious problems and things like that. Car channels have been doing this for years, but I have never seen a video like that for bikes. Maybe there are some, but it is quite rate for sure. It would be an amazing piece of contact and it would help a lot of us to avoid breaking the bank for some trash quality rubbish bike.

What would be wrong with using a mallet and to smack it round?

You should just all sell your bikes and buy real (mountain) ones!

Can someone let me know how old is hambini? I must’ve missed it.

Invest in a pen....For God's sake....it costs 30 €...

If you can get your hands on a USA-made caad frame that would be lovely. Always wondered if they were precise knowing that they were made in the US.

Madison is going to get reamed worse than their bottom brackets.

the mudgard mounted into this bike make it looks stupid lollllllllll

Hmmm, "softer part" upside down, TO ME means, pen is NOT working. As to disc brakes, they are Gods brakes, as Greta would say, HOW DARE YOU! 🤣

Dunno what's up with these expensive bikes, but my 30 year old Centurion straight gauge steel frame never gave me any issues. Not even rust. That bike's done over 100.000 km in its lifetime(good to go for another 100.000).

looks pretty at least

Dreading the day hambini gets his hands On One of my bikes

Whole 4 minutes to mention a PowerPoint!!!!! !!!!

I think George Russell is the favourite PowerPoint man of the UK 💁

'Pen is working' will never ever get old. 😁