From my perspective the most impressive piece of technology that mass effect has in comparison to other sci-fi is the Omitool The Omnitool is a 3D printer, chemistry lab, sensory array, coms unit, general purpose supercomputer, electronic warfare suite, and it's small enough to fit on the back of a fingerless glove
"This, recruits, is a 20-kilo ferrous slug. Feel the weight! Every five seconds, the main gun of an Everest-class dreadnought accelerates one to 1.3 percent of light speed. It impacts with the force of a 38-kiloton bomb. That is three times the yield of the city buster dropped on Hiroshima back on Earth. That means Sir Isaac Newton is the deadliest son-of-a-bitch in space." Cheers!
The problem with this is the math is all wrong. In fact, it's being severely under sold. He mentions a 20 kilo slug. Now, is that a 20 kilogram slug or a 20 kiloton slug? Even if it's a 20 kilogram slug it would hit way harder than the force of 38 kilotons. A 20 kilogram slug traveling at 1.3% the speed of light is moving at 2,358 miles per second. It would impact with the force of roughly 288 giga newtons or just over 29 megatons of force! Keep in mind that this is a 20 kilogram slug. If it's a 20 kiloton slug.......then oh boy we are talking a completely different ball game here. That's a slug that weighs 1 million times more than the 20 kilogram slug. We go from 29 megatons of force to 29 giga tons of force. Ya, I don't see a reaper kinetic barrier just shrugging off that amount of force like it didn't even happen.
If Admiral Cole had been in command, he would have coordinated his fleet to engage individual reapers with its combined power in single volleys to overwelm their shields. He also would have used the space environment around him to his advantage. We never see either in Mass Effect. Heck, we never even see the characters aware of the Reapers greatest combat weakness: Their main gun lacks the range and accuracy of organic ships. It's also tucked away into the "mouth" of the ship. If flanked, the entire vessel has reorient itself to engage, exposing its greatest disadvantage, the gun itself. Every time we see a Reaper knocked out in a few shots, it's always the main gun where it's hit. Yet, the organic fleets never take advantage of these disadvantages. Final point is that Mass Effect is not military sci-fi like Starship Troopers or even Star Trek. It isn't about showing tactics or strategies in space, but a plot and character driven narrative. So, my entire criticism, while potentially valid, is pedantic given the intentions of the story.
You need to understand that it's a plot and character driven narrative, this is why Reapers somehow do not adapt to the battles they've encountered so far. (If Stockfish can beat you in 2024, a Reaper A.I that has lived for as long as Sovereign or the Harbinger did, would overwhelm your capabilities far beyond what you can fathom.)
It should be noted that in the fluff for ME3 it is sated that the Turians figured that out. They started doing micro jumps behind repear dreadnoughts forcing them to turn around in order to bring their weapons to bare, this however force them to pull power from their kinetic barriers and put it into their mass effect fields in order to lower their mass enough to not get flattened by their own innertia. This was a reliable enough tactic that the repear's only real defense against it was to jump away as fast as possible.
@@blackjoker2345 I very probably read 3/4 of the post, made the mistake to think it was like 99% of all the other posts so far, and posted my comment without reading the end.
The 38 kiloton figure for the mass accelerator cannon is given for the Everest Class Dreadnought. The Codex also states that it takes the firepower of 3 dreadnoughts to cause a Reaper’s barriers to falter, and it takes 4 to destroy the Reaper entirely. That means you’re looking at roughly 152 kilotons of TNT equivalent to not only break a Reaper’s barriers but destroy it entirely.
Actually, it takes 3 to 4 Dreadnoughts to destroy a Reaper, not 3 to 4 Dreadnought rounds. Looking at the fire rates involved, if a Reaper were to singlehandedly take on 3 reapers, the battle would take at least 15 seconds, with 5 seconds per Dreadnought. In that time, they would have to tank a total of 14 dreadnought rounds before winning. Throw in a 4th Dreadnought and that jumps to 24 rounds. Taking the 38kt figure, that means that a Reaper can easily tank at least 500 kt of kinetic energy and needs at least 900 kt to actual destroy them.
@@christophergroenewald5847 the codex simply states that reapers can shrug off 2 dreadnoughts, strain under the fire of 3, and get destroyed by 4. The reapers clearly regenerate barriers rapidly if they can completely shrug off 2 dreadnoughts so I don’t think we’re talking sustained barrages here. 4 dreadnoughts simply brute force the barriers on a reaper before they regenerate.
The problem also lies in numbers. Because of the treaty of Farixen, there are only a handful of dreadnoughts in the galaxy, even if we include non-Citadel races like the Geth. The Reapers, in contrast, had millions of years to increase the number of its Sovereign class ships, which may number in the thousands after so many cycles. And that's not even counting all the other ships of the Reapers who are more plentiful than the capital ships. Not even the combined might of the Milky Way's fleets can fight the Reapers conventionally.
I already told 00 on his Discord to look at this Comment, and that he needs to Revise his video using it, and the Info in the Codex. Never seen him make a mistake like this one before, and I hope I never do again, as it may cause us to Lose Him. His reputation is Built on his Exceptional Accuracy, and I don't even want to think what his losing That could cost us.
I like to think that the kinetic barriers of a reaper is not always evenly distributed and can be organized to suit the situation. In the battle over Earth in Mass Effect 3, when one of a ship shot off 2 of a reaper's tentacles, the reaper was shot in the joints, areas where it was least expecting to get hit
@@Zaros2400 That’s actually not really the case. It’s a little like the “officer, why didn’t you aim for the leg?” question The leg is such a small target (relatively speaking) that you never really want to aim there if you can help it. It’s also why we don’t really have leg armor as a standard even though we have Kevlar for the torso
Great video! One thing though. After the battle of the Citadel Turians salvaged the main gun of Sovereign and reversed engineered it to create the Thanix cannon, which was an upgrade on the Normandy SR2 with some cerberus tweaks. I think it's safe to assume the Turians also outfitted many of their ships with Thanix cannons, even if they aren't as advanced as the Normandy's, or even look the same when firing. So in the assault on Earth that could explain why so few shots could take off a Reaper's limb
The Reapers despite being so devastating in the Mass Effect Universe, fare poorly in other science fiction settings. Reapers would be incredibly vulnerable to Covenant plasma projectiles, UNSC heavy MAC guns, turbo lasers from Star Wars, various laser and plasma weapons from 40K.
UNSC MAC´s would not be very effective...maybe a Defense Satellite, but not a Ship based MAC (outside of the Infinity who is powered by Forerunner Tech). Why do i think that ? Because the Weapons in Mass Effect are Mass Accellerators...as are Mac Guns. When it comes to Plasma Weapons or Laser Weapons...that is a different Story. Thoose Weapons would be surely more effective
Reapers do be heavily specialized to dealing with their In-universe opposition, if anything its more suprising that at this point they arent effectivly immune to weaponry in ME universe
Are the ME weapons as silly numbers as the Halo numbers? Halo Superman's fire multi-ton projectiles at 4%, in the range of 50gw per shot. That's like... 40,000x the values quotes in the video.
yeah I agree they'd be rocked by most other sci fi universes in head on fights just due to scaling of power/their defenses being made for kinetic rounds and things like SW or WH40k plasma would be greatly more effective for, but tbh if they do start to lose that means who ever they're fighting will be surrounded by dead reapers and their tech. Either to try and reverse engineer or understand them, and then I bet we'd see them come back for round 2 with indoctrinated species and their own tech to bolster/advance themselves. The reapers imo are just mechanical flood with a self made leash in the cycles and without the multidimensional origins with the domain etc. tbh I do think the unsc would just crumble even worse than the ME races, they have less ships and they only have 1 mac per ship in most cases. covies would fare much better due to weapon choices in plasma/energy imo
In the codex in Mass Effect 3 it is stated that simultaneous fire from the main gun of 3 dreadnoughts like the Alliance Kilimanjaro-class can seriously damage Reaper shields with 4 of them firing together being sufficient to destroy a Sovereign-class Reaper. Now i don't have time to do the math but the barrel of a Kilimanjaro's main cannon is 900 meters long.
With Sovereign and the way the battle is handled in the game and cut scenes, I think the way it was scripted was more along the lines that the Reaper was potentially drawing energy directly from the citadel. That would explain why it was invincible and able to cut down it's opponents without breaking a sweat. Jump to the feedback from the destruction of the husk of Saren, and the connection was lost, physically the ship was disabled and it had already suffered heavy damage on the way through the citadel fleet.
Keep in mind that in the third game the alliance and United Fleet ships are using guns powered by Reaper technology and therefore are far more powerful than they were in the first game. And yet the reaper still successfully took multiple shots before showing damage from either broadsides or main guns so their Shields are way more powerful than you'd think since they can take their own technology
Hmm.. I think 2 factors are important in Sovereign fight: Reaper is suffering from negative feedback somehow affecting its shields and lack of other Reapers, who may boost each others shields.
There's also another potential that Reaper KBs are able to recharge constantly or just do so over shorter timetables than Citadel ones. For all we know, Reaper KBs are just constantly charging so unless an attack deals enough to drop them in a single hit, it will have minimal or no effect.
My theory is that reaper shields do not block, but absorb kinetic energy to route it back right into the shield itself. The more you shoot at it, the stronger it gets making reapers more or less invincible in normal fleet combat. Prolonged use under extreme enemy fire however may push the system beyond its operational energy transference rate, causing it to slowly overheat and shut down. That's what I assume happened to sovereign.
Something I always thought about is why it never occured to the military forces in Mass Effect to use nukes against the reapers. The soviets tested a 57Mt nuke (tsar bomba) in 1961, by 2186 one would assume that a reaper destroying nuke would be totally feasible.
So the Math makes me curious about the Ground Canon that One-Shot a Reaper 35 Million years prior that we find floating in a Gas Giant. That one canon had to generate enough power and force to breakthrough the Kinetic Barrier and puncture the entire Reaper ship through and through, and is possibly still propelling itself forward in space as it already hit a planet and kept going.
I do remember a codex note suggesting that the Turians managed to overwhelm a reapers shields with the fire of four dreadnoughts at once, though we do not have the same information on the power of said vessels as we do the cruisers
In the Codex on the original release of Mass Effect 3 (I don't know if it's in the LE or not too) it mentions it takes bombardment by at least *four* Systems Alliance Dreadnoughts to bring down the barriers on the Reaper Dreadnoughts, so thats two main guns firing, each firing every couple of seconds to get the job done. The "barrier" to that (sorry, not sorry) is you don't have four Dreadnoughts for long with the Reaper one or two shotting each in a matter of seconds, so to begin to damage the Reaper before you lose ships its probably going to take many more than that.
Reapers be scary! And with the conventional mindsets and philosophies being largely directed according to Reaper wishes(their shaping of technological discovery and progress) no anti-barrier technology was ever really developed extensively. That and the limit on Dreadnaughts, which humanity should have ignored completely, making the Cruisers do the bulk of the fighting with their lesser guns. Madness. No wonder the Reapers steamrolled uncountable numbers of even galaxy spanning civilizations.
here is what i think. there are multiple instances of people forgetting to put up their kinetic barriers for one reason or another. it is possible that the Reapers did not feel threatened when the fleet first arrived, so their shields were down to conserve energy. Given how strong a Reaper's barrier is, it is reasonable to assume it takes a moment to power up, or maybe not. i am a nerd, not a scientist.
If I could manipulate gravitational forces. I would create the largest outward pressure I could, in the shortest distance I can. Think Roche limit with one mass being my gravitational force field and the other mass being the attack object. Also my focus is firstly disintegration and then secondly evacuation of debris. You may not be limited to one configuration but I feel like that would be the most effective for kinetic attacks.
Great video but one problem I’m seeing is the power your stating for the cruiser main gun. The figures of the 20 kg at 1.3% the speed of light has only ever been stated to be the power for dreadnoughts, NOT cruisers. Given that dreadnought are said to have significantly more range then cruisers and that only a dreadnought can reliably take down another dreadnought, I think it’s fair to say that cruisers not only fire a much lighter round but a much slower round.
I love mass effect and I always wondered what the material properties of reaper matter where but I’m no engineer or chemist so all I know was that even if they relied on the mass effect to move their hulls could still withstand around 1G of gravity even with their raw unmodified mass
Another reason for the change in punishment taken is the difference in tech. ME3 has Geth tech integrated into the hand helds letting them deal more damage but have higher cooling needs. The same could be said for the guns on ships, including that in ME2 you could slap some pretty good firepower on the ship, and all of that got taken by humans to then be studied and then placed into normal service.
Great vid as always. But there are a few facts that may need further investigation. The main one is the 38 Kiloton figure. I've seen other comments touch on this already so I won't be repeating it here. TLDR: That figure was in reference to the main gun of a Systems Alliance Everest class Dreadnought. So, this brings up several important follow up questions: -Are all ships using 20kg rounds as their main projectile? -Do broadside weapons use the same ammo? -Is this standard across all the various Mass Effect races? -Does each race's weapons function the same way? (For example, the codex states that Salarian GUARDIAN point defense lasers use UV light, while the other races do not, and this grants them extra range at the cost of heat generation...I think, it's been a while since I looked that up). So, depending on some of those answers, the overall "damage output" could change significantly depending on which race's ships were involved in the battle. (And on that note, it's also possible that the Alliance cruisers in ME1 were also firing their main guns on Soverign, just that the colouration of the impacts are different from the Turian ships). That's all from me. Thanks again for the deep dive into one of my beloved franchises.
my headcanon for reapers, is like unlike more conventional ships they're acting like a ship sized biotic. which is why things like Sovereign being weakened by killing the Saren puppet can happen, the ship wasn't directly affected but Sovereign itself was distracted and lost focus.
1. Those Alliance Cruisers in ME1 are First Contact War era Cruisers. Their Length of their ship is 652 meters with a length of 586.8 meters or 587 if rounded up for their mainguns.That's a yield of 28.4 Kilotons of TNT they are firing, but if just 1 of those Cruisers is firing 1 shot every 2 seconds. In Just 1 minute that is a yield of 852 Kilotons of TNT. Note they can fire 3 burst shots, and full automatic settings in ME1 so yields could be different or fire rates can be sped up. However given how the Alliance uses 2 mainguns, and 2 secondary guns for their Cruisers, and Dreadnoughts. The Results of incoming fire on Sovereign can be staggering. 2. While the Codex states that it takes 3-4 dreadnoughts to begin doing something towards a Reaper Capital Ship. Bare in mind Dreadnoughts have Cruiser Squadrons aiding them in battle. That's not to say dreadnoughts with faster acceleration, and firepower couldn't dispatch one themselves, yet it takes a considerable amount of concentrated firepower to bring them down.
You'll have to forgive the forgotten names of things but there were 3 examples of Reapers being beaten by other ways which could have an impact here. There are the two times reapers get destroyed by orbital fire and a third when a Reaper gets destroyed by the big worm monster on the kronan home world
I find that calculation of just over 3Mt of tanking to be interesting... because a Leviathan class Warship in Battletech actually face tanked a 3Mt nuke... before turning and annihilating the ships that dared to challenge it. It's interesting to have 2 multi km long warships basically being so similar in durability.
There is some thing to consider is that soveriegn could of been tapping into the citadells power grid to keep its shields up and charged. Another is that uts stated that citadell forces were a le to salvage the main gun from soveriegn and threw research on it were able to upgrade existing weapon systems.
I actually wondered about that Reaper that lost its legs. I thought whether those leg joints were merely weak points where the barrier emitters perhaps didn’t focus as strongly as on other areas of the hull. So not that the shield was down, but that the shots were able to take advantage of weaker areas where the coverage wasn’t as potent.
Kinetic Barriers protect against physical objects with, of course, kinetic energy. But we researched and developed Thanix Cannons. Kinetic Barriers don't do crap to stop that. Scale Thanix up enough and it'll bore holes straight thru Capital Reapers.
Thanix cannons are also kinetic, they simply melt metal and launch it using magnetic pressure. It's like shooting an ultra-dense jet of water at extreme speeds. Also in the ME3 wiki it indicates that the projectile cools, so we can assume that we have an anti-armor projectile that moves several times faster than a standard one and is heavier because the mass depends on the firing time.
Most of the fleets had the thanix cannon a significant increase in the amount of fire power of a ship by the time of the reaper invasion. That weapon is based on reaper tech it could easily pierce most known shields
Thani cannons weren’t made to be mainline in the navies yet. The only one known was for the first Volus dreadnaught, otherwise they were put on more specialized ships with the expectation that the older ships would be retired as the newer, more powerful ships were built to replace them.
hence why element zero is so depleted in the galaxy. the reapers use it just like you do. one reason i liked the leviathan dlc. you're able to draw conclusions from the minor stuff in it
Though Im not sure of their yield I seem to recall that there was something in ME3 that said the the Reapers purposely moved to cut off the more powerful stockpiles of atomic bombs on Earth, and we do see those smaller shoulder firing nuclear launchers taking down Destroyers with relative ease. Seeing as how the galaxies species weapons tech is largely based around ME tech which is also Reaper tech there must be a residual ME field around most projectiles fired to allow for constant velocity and that the Reaper shields may exploit this somehow by altering that residual field thus reducing the total energy upon impact. In short where as in Halo the Covenant shields are weak to plasma, in ME the Reaper shields are stronger against anything with ME fields. As is their method of operation, a trojan horse of sorts
Looking at the fire rates involved, if a Reaper were to singlehandedly take on 3 reapers, the battle would take at least 15 seconds, with 5 seconds per Dreadnought. In that time, they would have to tank a total of 14 dreadnought rounds before winning. Throw in a 4th Dreadnought and that jumps to 24 rounds. Taking the 38kt figure, that means that a Reaper can easily tank at least 500 kt of kinetic energy and needs up to 900 kt to actual destroy them.
It is reasonable too assume that in the final battle in me3 the guns got some upgrades to pennetrate reaper barriers than in sovereigns battle in me1, the probably also discovered some weakpoints on the reapers they didn't yet know of against sovereign.
Please remember people that the reapers real power is indoctrination not their mass effect fields. In any other Sci Fi setting they are as serious a threat as they are in the ME setting. All they need to do is indoctrinate some people and boom they have agents that will get them the tech they need to compete in whatever setting they find themselves in. They are highly adaptive and intelligent, they will spread and succeed in any Sci Fi setting. Will they dominate? Depends on how the natives react to their presence when they finally reveal themselves. Case and point, imagine a fully indoctrinated astartes chapter with multiple regiments of Imperial guard, they don't even have to go traitor to help the Reapers, just funnel more people towards them to be indoctrinated. They would have NO issue pretending to be subservient to the mechanicum.
@@voomvoom4522 They would need to be aware of it first, but they would be enslaved to them way before anything like that can happen, unless the Emperor himself act cause he has magical abilities that cannot be beaten by strategies or technological advancement.
@@MrJefferson07 Exactly, the Reapers would thrive in just about any Sci Fi universe, not because they are technologically powerful but because they have incredibly subtle mind control. Honestly @voomvoom4522 answer is so simple it sounds like a bot.
I dont think we know how much of a punch a Turian ship can deal but it could be more than an aliance one considering they are the main millitary of citadel space.
In his defense finding remotely any canon info on most ME ships is difficult as the codex (as far as I know but correct me if I'm wrong) doesn't really give much info nor does the world it self.
9:50 at least indeed. Part of the game lore explains clearly that your weight estimates are way off. Which throws off everything else. Mass effect fields aren't just used to manipulate density in ships while in flight to grant faster than light travel. All ships and weapons and armor are made based off mass effect technology. In mass effect fields. Which are manipulated to make finished products either much lighter or MUCH heavier and denser than the units of measurement we use irl. It's a nitpick useless point. Not trying to undermine your work. This is a fun vid! But you're totally underestimating possibly by orders of magnitude I think.
I disagree with your belief from the Earth attack scene. Disruptor torpedoes are a weapon that exist in universe, specifically used by fighters to overwhelm a ship’s GARDIAN CIWS, and kinetic barriers. Even if we are talking about perspective of the scene, those projectiles are moving at far too slow a speed to be believable, even if factoring in Earth or Sol’s gravity affecting the inbound projectiles. I think the blue projectiles you are referring to in the ME3 scene are essentially capital-ship grade disruptor torpedoes. My reasoning? Rewatch the Sovereign attack; you can clearly see several Alliance cruisers firing some type of guided ordnance in several shots. These are likely the Javelin launchers referred to in Secondary Codex entries. While it goes against stated tactics of the codex entry, considering the opposition, the opening volley of 3 could have included Javelin launchers and other capital ship grade disruptor torpedoes added into the opening volley, which while unlikely to inflict damage, would weaken the Reaper barriers at maximum range and overwhelm any GARDIAN equivalent before the single-ship fighters closed in. I don’t disagree with your other evidence however.
So for perspective... That big Reaper ship effectively shrugged off the largest American nuclear weapon and was around 50% the power of the most powerful bomb in human history...
Reapers shields are indeed strong, but just like most sci-fi era genres, they have inconsistencies when broken down like this. Whatever the case is, let just agree that they're strong enough to warrant caution when engaging a target like it.
Mass Effect Kinetic Barriers are impressive but if you stack it against any other mainline scifi franchise that have plasma or laser weaponry they are quite limiting.
I think that ‘Sovereign’ can take well over 30mT of damage because it’s unique and named I think the ‘lesser’ reapers would take less that ‘Sovereign’ maybe 30mT or more but nowhere near the amount that ‘Sovereign’ could take
You cannot take Sovereign tanking the fire of the Alliance fleet as an example. It was hooked into the Citadel directly which means it was drawing extra power from the station. You can only use the calculations for the approach. Also the damage out put is for the Alliance somewhat outdated Everest class Dreadnought. Their new Kilimanjaro class Dreadnought is not only larger with a longer main gun but has more advanced and efficient power generation and Ezzo core. Turian Dreadnoughts would easily be stronger than the Everest and closer to the newer model of Alliance Dreadnoughts. Since post first contact war the Alliance would make it a point to develop a ship that was a match for their enemy/counterpart.
We know that reapers were "worried" about humanity and other species using their old nuclear weapons. I do have to check your 38 kT figure, since I don't remember the lore as well anymore. It used to be from dreadnought (?), but it's possible I'm missing something. I forgot more lore about it than I hoped.
It is stated that after Shepard gets the support of the Krogan’s, the Krogan’s give Turians small nukes as they help with the ground battles. From there, some of the Turians went inside Reapers and detonated the nukes, effectively gutting them. While it did kill many to do such a move all over Palavin, the fact that they were able to kill some, or at least damage them beyond effectiveness, gave a huge morale boost to the armies who already were granted huge relief by the Krogan troops.
@@MrLightningbob Yeah. I was thinking more of Reapers disabling old silos and when there is Geth/Quarian mission, don't we fight it near/on the silo? The one where you have to use the guidance to tell Normandy/Fleet where to aim. I used to be very much into ME lore, but sadly last time I played ME was maybe a year after ME3 came out.
@@jannegrey593 There was a silo on Rannoch, but it housed a Reaper Destroyer. Though the lore does say that the Reapers targeted military installations first while also hitting major population centers. Then again, the Reapers not only have raw power on their side but engage in intense psychological warfare with their indoctrination and use of husks.
This is my opinion, so yeah, i might be wrong. As others have stated in the ME universe, reapers are damn near impossible to beat conventionally thats because they already know everyones strengths and weaknesses, thanks to them leaving the tech so the races get to harvesting faster. But i feel like other universities such as Halo, Star Wars, and a few others would be able to defend and defeat the reapers in a conventional war. Yeah there will be high casualties but not to the same extent as mass effect. And a fun little thing i found, UNSC Cruisers are bigger than ME Alliance Dreadnoughts, so should the Reapers fight the UNSC, they are going to get torn apart before they get close. Oh, and the UNSC also has world cracking Nukes called Nova bombs they can also use to take on the reapers.
I like how to beat the Reapers, you have to first remove what makes them the Reapers in the first hand, their adaptability and extreme carefulness. In all the "VS" stories, the Reapers are literally ME3, just rushing in for some unknown reasons because their A.I seemingly stopped working better than a 2024 A.I of Stockfish.
@Cynwale guess I forgot to add in no prep time for the reapers, more just they are meeting for the first time, and they are only as dangerous as they are in the ME universe. But even if they did have prep time, I still see them losing. The size difference of ships plays in the favor of the other Universes. Most of the non ME military have planet killing weapons, so the armor and barriers of the reapers aren't going to hold up long against those weapons. Also, I may be mistaken but doesnt most of the ME species already think they peaked in tech level and can't go past that. While those like the Halo are constantly trying to improve their tech since they keep coming across more and stronger threats
@@armycowboy4313 That's the point, new Universe = new technological limits. If Reapers were to be put in another Universe, they won't show up until they are sure they have the upper hand, they won't do like in ME3 where they just rush ahead for some reasons.
@Cynwale actually them showing up in ME3 was what they've done in every cycle just happened that in ME3 they didn't get their short cuts because some actually saw them as a threat and fought them every step of the way.
@@armycowboy4313 No, in ME3 they do not have the upper hand as they did in previous collect, they rushed even tho the Species of the Galaxy would unite against the new threat. (Even if plot armor and plot convenience saved them.)
What kind of feels odd is we have nukes today that could have ko'd a reaper. Tsar Bomba was about 50MT of tnt versus about 4 MT. One could argue that tsar bomba could knock out up to 10 reapers... As an upper bound using this math...
Reapers are exceptionally powerful within their own universe but outside of it they're pretty low to mid tier on the power scales we tend to see. Something like a Galaxy Class from Star Trek would be able to wipe out an entire fleet of them without any real effort. Their phasers would punch straight through the kinetic barriers and a single photon torpedo would completely overwhelm the barriers of anything but Sovereign Type Reapers. Though given that 38KT is the impact force of not Dresden Class Cruisers but an Everest Class Dreadnought so it's still likely that a single photon would turn a Reaper to scrap given that the yield is several times even the most powerful nuclear weapons we currently have. A Galaxy Class isn't even an upto date vessel within Trek either but I chose that as an example because people would be fairly familiar with it. Something like the Defiant could feasibly take on the entire Reaper invasion solo as long as it's not all at once between it's firepower, shielding/armor, and cloaking device.
@@nobleman9393 Not really. There's a lot of things throughout scifi that would do just fine across multiple settings and against multiple types of tech. Reapers are just an example of something that is incredibly strong within their own universe but so specialized against the tech of their own universe that they'd get trashed by most other ones. It's well established within ME lore that directed energy weapons can bypass or rip through kinetic barriers with ease. But the tech in ME is almost all kinetic based aside from things like laser point defense systems and some rare and exotic stuff like geth plasma weapons or collector particle rifles. Unfortunately for Reapers and other ME ships directed energy weapons are the norm throughout most scifi. Also most other scifi ships and factions have to deal with far deadlier kinetics and energy based weapons than what ME stuff can throw around.
So i have a question ive asked before that ill ask again and is off topic kinda, whould would win in a heads up fight the reapers or the flood? Could the reapers i doctrinate a gravemind or would the flood plug in the logic plauge to the reapers first? How would the community think it would go?
Given the energy numbers, ships in Mass Effect seem rather anemic in terms of damage output and resistance. Sure, ship weapon outputs are measured in kilotons, but into the late 1990s we had nuclear weapons with yields around 9 megatons (B53 bomb), built with 1960s technology. The US still has fighter carriable 1.2 megaton yield weapons (B83) in service. Given the technology of Mass Effect, we could easily have something like fighter deployed, megaton plus* yield Casaba-Howitzers (*antimatter is common enough for use in military and high performance vessels as propellant). I would kind of hope that your average warship has kinetic barriers capable of not being one shot by the equivalent of an F-16, let alone the ominous space shrimp that eats cruisers for a snack.
Essentially, a Reaper can't take a hit from the Tsar Bomba (~50MT). I'm now disappointed in the ME kinetic weapons unless my understanding of your calcs is off by an order of magnitude. Enjoyed the video.
Seeing as the Alliance's Everest-class' spinal gun has a given power of 38 kilotons. That is an older and smaller class, so weaker than modern ships, but no ship is going to have THAT much of a power gap.
Yeah four Dreadnought class ships working in Tandem can kill a Reaper . But a single return volley from a Reaper is shown to kill basically whatever it hits. While those Dreadnoughts would have to land their four shots within seconds of each other. So even in the best case scenario you're going to lose a Dreadnought or two in each exchange. And considering even the Turians who build Dreadnoughts like crazy only have a couple dozen that's not a healthy prospect.
That doesn't mean one volley, though. And dreadnaughts don't just have the 38 kiloton+ main guns, they also have smaller guns and presumably some missiles.
@@ALLMINDmercenarysupportsystem Dreadnoughts and indeed all warships in the Mass Effect Universe have to keep their bows pointed at their enemies in order to use their main gun. Which means none of the side batteries of a Dreadnought can be brought to bear. Not that it matters since a Reaper can shrug off that sort of thing till kingdom come. As for missile weaponry that sort of thing is limited to anti ship torpedoes carried by fighters. And even against other capital ships they need to score dozens if not hundreds of hits to disable their shields. So against a Reaper it's practically useless to deploy fighters. Since Dreadnoughts that are built as Carriers in the Mass Effect Universe sacrifice much of their firepower in order to have hanger space. And a Dreadnought without a full powered main gun would contribute nothing to a fight against a Sovereign class or bigger Reaper.
@@clothar23 All more or less true. However, the missiles in particular would still contribute, given the massive fighter swarms described in the codex, and my main point was that it would not be a single volley of the main guns taking down a Sovereign-class. Given the known numbers, a low-ball estimate for the firepower of 4 dreadnaughts is 154 kilotons (again, low-ball, but the number could not practically be much larger) - with the numbers we've seen that type of Reaper tank, this is nothing.
@@ALLMINDmercenarysupportsystem Except the Codex specifically states four shots from an Everest class Dreadnought can take down a Sovereign Class Reaper. The Everest Class is also one of the Oldest Dreadnought Class the Systems Alliances possess. With about 3/4 of the firepower of her modern counterparts . Let alone the much more advanced Turians. The problem isn't firepower it's sustaining it. Sure you can throw four Dreadnoughts against a Sovereign and win . But you're going to lose one or two of them every time. And in a numbers game the Reapers will win every time. That's their real power. They've had countless millions of years to build up their numbers. Their shields , armour , and guns are trivial concerns in comparison.
I think it states somewhere in a codex that it takes 4-5 of the biggest aliance ships to take out a reaper, but probably just the 160m variants not the 2k variants, cant remember.
Reaper capital ships are strained by three dreadnought and destroyed by four. Reaper destroyers can be taken out by a single cruiser or many fighters if they manage to get close without dying.
@@simonschaller857 I don’t recall any dreadnought fighting Sovereign. Sovereign was “assuming direct control” over Saren and for all we know Harbinger gets knocked out every time we kill a possessed collector.
There is a parameter you didn’t take into consideration, reapers have different classes (direct connection to power and size) the one near earth was not a destroyer, but nice video overall
You've got a mistake with the first estimate and the broadside estimate, but I do have an possible to consider for a calculation at the end. You said that the Reaper took 4 shots from a cruiser, and then you quoted the 20 kilogram slug and 1.3% of lightspeed from a Everest DREADNOUGHT, which is far larger. Dreadnought are the only ship types allowed to mount weapons that powerful, per the Treaty of Farixen. Now I'm not up on visual identification of ships from Mass Effect, so I don't know if the ship shown was a cruiser, in which case it has to mount a smaller gun, or if it was a Dreadnought and you mistakenly said cruiser. Unless you were referring to the 4 slow moving shots shown as leaving a "wake", in which case those aren't main gun rounds but torpedoes, which disrupt an enemy's shields and then shred the matter beyond with mass effect fields of their own, in which case there is no way to mathematically determine yield. And in the broadside discussion: First, you wouldn't neccessarily want to run a standardized mass projectile at varying velocities. In fact, I'd argue the opposite. First, we can't assume that accelleration is constant per unit of length--No modern mass accelerators work that way due to a variety of technical limitations. We can't assume mass effect technology does or does not overcome similar limitations. We just don't know. And you wouldn't want to lower the velocity on a standard shell. These are hyper-kinetic weapons that can commonly operate beyond the speed of meteor impacts. Chemical energy provides nothing to the terminal effect, just the kinetics and material strengths of the impactor and target. The impactor's construction is very important here--the shear stress of impact is far beyond what any material can withstand, so everything acts more akin to two fluids hitting each other than 2 solids. Impactors would be designed to exploit this. IRL prototypes for railgun ammunition (like that of the US Navy) seem to built around a high metling point, dense, "armor piercing" core (such as tungsten carbide or depleted uranium) that, even while fluidized by the impact, has enough momentum to stay on the same vector and punch deeper. In fact, it doesn't tend to expand well, requiring a direct hit to break anything. Around this core is an aluminum jacket that doesn't just fluidize under those kinetic energies, it flashes to high=temperature plasma and expands explosively, forcing material sideways to create a cone of destruction inside the target. How well the penetrator and "flashing" component work is velocity dependent, and require different designs to optimize for different velocities. And the target construction does matter as well, so you might actually want to impact at different velocities against different armor materials to punch through the best. There are also reasons you'd want to have smaller guns fire at higher velocities--small craft are more maneuverable, so a higher velocity projectile spends less time getting to the target, reducing how much an evasive maneuver can make a projectile miss by, which is crucial on a smaller target that can more easily get out of the way. This is going on way too long. As to finding another estimate: I can't find the specific lore entry, but I think it was connected to the Leviathan of Dis, and maybe gets unlocked during the quest to get the Reaper IFF/Legion. Or maybe you have to fly around and scan the thing manually. It describes a planet with an impact crater from an ancient mass driver, and I thought it was implied that this shot took out a Reaper, and it *might* have included a size figure. But after scouring the Wiki I can't find it. Sorry for the wall of text.
Mass Effect Reaper Capital Ships: "Our Kinetic Shields are the strongest across cycles, we have darken the skies and endured what organics would categorize as Yields of 152 kilotons to 200 kilotons." Halo, Star Wars Expanded Universe and Warhammer 40k designers of Capital Ships and Defensive Platforms: "That's very very very... frail and rigid as hell..... You can't even handle a 21st century Ballistic nuclear missle with that. Let alone the true heavy megaton tier nukes like the Castle Bravo and the Tsar Bomba, if those boys were in a hypersonic missle and detonated a few hundred feet infront of you. What makes you think your little invasion force can handle a planetary defensive array consising a few dozen Orbital defense guns and missiles without suffering a few hundred lost Reaper ships in the process? Nevermind the grounded planetary anti orbital networks and grids. In a war of Attrition you Reapers would suck in superior firepower, manpower, and production against our nations. We think even the Starcraft version of humanity and their aliens can endure against whatever strageies and tactics you can come up. You would not last against even the Yuuzhan Vong or the Covenant in a long drawn-out war."
@@nobleman9393 Indeed one Xeelee Nightfighter would even against the Forerunner Empire. Though there are some more insane Sci fi out there in games and literature many don't know that can probably hurt even Xeelee outposts. Such as the Gargantuan Quasarcraft from Stellaris Gigastructural Engineering and the galaxy sized ships that can be constructed in a game called Star Ruler. Now that's a game many don't know about. If you are looking for a verse with powers that be in it that can go pound to pound with Xeelee Sequence and hold their own the Doctor Who EU books and Faction Paradox have a few factions and beings who certainly can such as the Great Houses and a being known as the Quantum Angel.
@@warhammer8867 No matter anyway, if they wanna bring Warhammer or Halo, just say: "Now let's add a context where the Reapers have the time to prepare and stay in the shadows..." then you'll see them exploding inside knowing fully well that ME3 Reapers aren't canon and that it would mean obligatory victory for the Reapers on the long run. Remember they cannot beat Stockfish, so imagine what a Billion years old super evolved A.I could actually do. (And yes, I count the Forerunners in too, and in my understanding, they would probably team up lol.)
I'm the happiest subscriber alive! I've 100%'d this game almost like 80 times? About 4000 hours, I believe, including MP. I've learned so much about Halo from you, and now you've gone and done this to me. One heck of a writer. Keep it up! And thank you. 👍 The Reaper's have been here longer than we can fathom, so their strength makes sense. The planet of Klendagon has an intresting scar on it. Was it Reaper's, or the civilization that ruled at that time? The weapon that must've done this was very, very powerful.
Correct me if I'm wrong but can't the alliance ships divert power to other parts of the ship that are damaged or taking fire or is that strictly star wars?? Lol and also I imagine all that 36000 kt of TNT damage was not fired in one single spot but all over the ship?? Meaning that one could assume that if that much power was directed at just one specific point it should be more than enough to break any ships defenses....just a thought lol
its not just the power of the shot but the type of projectile they use. Asaria used a warped ammo, Taurian's favored armor piercing rounds. Salarains used a more expensive methods of barrel which allows for faster shots through a uv band as compared to humanity which used a basic laser, thus giving reason to the difference in color between shots. Some shots have a chance to bypass shields so what you see might be that. Chances are reapers can modify themselves to be stronger against different shot types, but being hit by such a wide variety makes that tactic impossible thus weaking their defensive capacity. Another to consider is not all reaper ships are built the same way there built from the species they harvest so each generation while looking the same outside their internal configuration is very different and most likely making weak spots different from ship to ship. I would say the battle in mass effect one is the most effective you will see a reaper ship Bing. It was able to shrug off much of the attack because it knew what it was charging into.
I think people underestimate the reapers, I think against the halo universe they pose a major threat but against Star Wars, warhammer etc they wouldn’t last.
What about the smaller Reaper on the Quarian Homeword? The Entire Quarian fleet bombards it from orbit and end up bringing it down. Can that help at all?
