Reason 12 might have an inflation problem 😩 

Oh true! Thanks for pointing that out!

@@matthewstuartnz edit your video !!

@@alexandersorbas1881 pinned comment 👍🏻

i said the same thing. this guy must stop posting videos when he doesn’t know how it works. He must just stick to Albelton seeing he is happy there. now he looks like a muppet when he realized that he is complaining on something when he doesn’t know how it works.

I have been a Reason user exclusively for over 8 years before switching to Ableton. I'm pretty familiar with the software. But I don't get it right every time and do miss things. That's why it's great to have you guys in the comments to help me fill in any gaps! Being able to search all locations like this doesn't change my opinion of the browser though. It's still pretty slow and poorly implemented imo.

I completely agree so far. I hope they release some more new stuff that will justify 12 as an upgrade for me.

aman

Truth!

Thanks for the tip!

Really enjoyed hearing this perspective. I haven’t really heard it brought up like this before but you raise some fantastic points. It would be cool to see Reason continue to be a software version of some of the best contemporary hardware as well as start innovating in the software/workflow side of things again!

@@matthewstuartnz yes its just still a little difficult as a keyboardist to go in, select an instrument, and go.

Yea, I really enjoy ableton's workflow

Lol 😂 which new DAW are you learning?

@@matthewstuartnz I have been dabbling using ableton a bit, Since i got a copy with my Aturia keylab 88 MK2. Now I will dabble more since Reason's future seems in peril with the new leadership.

Yea fair enough. Ableton is awesome! And if you've only got the lite version there is still heaps of room to expand with suite later on.

Yea it’s starting to look that way 🤦🏼‍♂️

"I don’t see the high res graphics and browser improvements deserving a full upgrade price." Why would you even say that, when they've clearly said a new Combinator and Sampler are in the fold as well? There will also be some things that don't get pre-announced.

As B Miller said, we are expecting more features. I'm just concerned that they lead with what are arguably the most simple features yet even they don't seem to be implemented very well. For me, the Combinator and Sampler upgrades are going to have to go above and beyond. I think they need to stop playing catch up with features and get themselves ahead.

I'm hoping there is a lot more than just the Combinator and the Sampler. I'm concerned the Combinator and the Sampler will just be another example of playing catch up with features. However, I hope that they actually end up being really innovative. Given recent upgrade history (a lot of people felt 11 should have been a point update), the features released so far could be concerning. The state of the features released so far don't give me confidence in the combinator and sampler releases. But you are right, it's too early to say anything definitively.

@@matthewstuartnz - In fairness, I think there is evidence of "beyond" in past releases: Beatmap, Quad Note Generator, Reason Rack Plug In, even if you feel Grain and Europa were just matching up with others. I also think they deserve props for releases not being buggy. Haven't heard of complaints on any release being substandard, and that takes time to happen. The trade off being, they could push out another feature if they skipped bug fixing before releases...

I have encountered bugs but you're right, for the most part it's been pretty stable. I think coming up with creative effects and instruments (most of the time) is what Reason Studios is best at. I'm a big fan of all the things you mentioned. However, I feel like they go beyond in a specific vertical. I don't think they do a good job of implementing what most would consider basic usability features. Prior to the last few instruments and effects they released (which I all think were really good) they did have a run of pretty pointless instruments (in my opinion). This would include Monotone, Rhytmik, and Scenic. I hope that the new combinator and sampler will follow the trend they have had most recently of releasing really great instruments and effects, but given their run of pretty average ones prior to that and the fact that I think the combinator and a sampler lean a little bit more towards the usability side of things (at least in regards to what I want to do with them), I'm a little apprehensive. I guess I'm kind of waiting for them to earn back my trust a little, which will take more than one update after several which I think were lacking overall. But, as I said before, I'm reserving my final opinion until we actually have the full release in our hands.

Yea I've seen a lot of people with that issue. When I switched to an NI keyboard it was terrible with Reason. It would be dope if they fixed that.

Omg you've just described my dream browser! I'd never even thought of some of those features before but that would be incredible!

@@matthewstuartnz And mine. It would be incredible wouldn't it. I don't know why Reason Studio's repeatedly make things simplified like the Automation Curves and Crossfade Curves having only 1 curve. Reaper has about 5 + linear.

It's not even simplified. It's just bad. I think Ableton does it simply but it's still incredibly powerful in terms of the control you have over curves. In my opinion to simplify something in this context should make it easier without reducing functionality.

I haven't actually looked into Cubase 11? What are some of the best features for you? I've been getting more and more impressed by Studio One myself.

@Lynx Media What don't you like? Also I bought a full Cubase Pro Crossgrade license for a little over $230 from Steinberg btw. Didn't get to use it...still waiting for the dongle to arrive in the mail.

@Lynx Media Interesting. 🤔 How long have you been using Cubase?

@@matthewstuartnz Cubase 11 Pro has a Spectral Analyzer that allows you to make acapellas. Maybe I’ve been living under a rock, but I don’t know of any other DAW that does this…. I feel like I’ve jumped out of the Dark Ages into The Jetsons.

There are a few other plugins and stuff that can do this but I haven't heard about it being bundled in a DAW before!

Thanks for checking out the video! 🙏🏻 I know exactly what you mean. I find it particularly frustrating as well when you try and test a sound but it's in a combinator or something and loads a whole different set of devices.. Not sure easier to test sounds on the fly.

I didn't either.. Until I started using browsers that gave you better search functionality. Now I use searches.

resync them from the companion app and wait till they load !

If you've downloaded the hi-res versions from the companion app they just take a minute to load... hopefully they fix this by the official release in September.

@@matthewstuartnz its fixed in update yesterday

Oh sick! Definite step in the right direction!

Lol 😂 does it though? They don't seem to be behaving like it!

Thanks for pointing that out! I just tried it now and yea it's pretty slow and buggy. I feel like it doesn't really operate well enough to really call it an improvement.

@@matthewstuartnz yeah exactly. That's facts right there. If they don't change their MO they will probably lose all their clientele. There are better options on the market.

Did you used to use Reason as a DAW or have you always been mainly FL?

@@matthewstuartnz FL for the greatest part. Though I had to dabble with other daws when I switched from using Windows to Mac as my main computer. Those daws were: Cubase, Logic, and Reason. But since FL is available on Mac not really looking to switch. I like that they have made Reason available in other Daws. I also like the concept of Reason being a studio in one and their stock sounds I always felt sounded better than FL stock sounds. It seemed stable and less power-hungry. But going that plugin route, I feel at every update they will need to bring a new instrument or effect (to satisfy the plugin crowd) and take care of updates to reason for Daws features (to satisfy the hardcore Reason users). Right now like you mentioned in your video about inflation, they are barely catching up.

@@KrishnaDiamesso Yea, I got into Reason cause I like the idea of it being self-containted and at the time I couldn't afford to spend heaps of money on plugins. I think you're right that they will need to keep releasing plugins and stuff far more regularly now.. I just wonder how long they will be able to do that without starting to release lite plugins that no one wants (think Rytmik, Monotone, etc). In theory, I love they idea that they are going for. I'm just becoming more and more concerned that they won't be able to pull it off.

Yup.. be nice if they started delivering value for money 😂

Yup.

Not sure sorry!

Good luck. Studio One looks awesome. Hope you enjoy it!

What would they need to add to get you to part with your money?

@@matthewstuartnz I always upgrade Reason since version 6.5 and i think that 129 € is too much money in comparison to other DAW's. Untill now what we know about new features of Reason 12 is the high resolution graphics and faster search. I paid 400 € for the license and 129 € for every upgrade untill now. Not worth it! They must include a lot more than that, with new instruments, players and fx, otherwise i dont pay more than 50 bucks to upgrade

Fair enough. Have you checked out the new Mimic sampler yet? What do you think of that? We are also getting an upgraded combinator but I don't really know what else.

@@ricardovilhena8454 stop upgrading then! reason has a really good deal where you can upgrade from any version for the same price. reason users should really be making more use of that. i would bet in 99% of the cases people dont 'really' need to upgrade anyway and could just skip a version. then when you upgrade later on you get way more bang for your buck

I can see how you would feel ripped off. Studio One has got an incredible feature set and they are always adding to it. If they can pull of Reason + and make it super legit, I think that would be okay. So far in my opinion, they haven't done that.

@@matthewstuartnz I got studio one at a discount and so did not pay much more than the upgrade would have been for reason. I use a nektar Panama and had a load of problems setting it up. Even though the problem was with nektar and not presonus they were fantastic. Presonus support is on a different level. I have also had 3 free upgrades in the time I have had studio one.

@@marcpinion That's legit. I used to have the Panorama too but I sold it when I switched to using the Native Instrument controllers (the Panorama is terrible with Ableton). Even though I'm doubtful I'd switch to Studio One I've often thought about just subscribing to their option for everything just because I constantly find myself impressed by the company.

@@matthewstuartnz I was so surprised how helpful they were. They really take time to help you.

@@marcpinion That's awesome to hear!

I honestly don't know sorry.

I honestly think that's a good move. Studio One is looking awesome. I might actually do a comparison to Reason if 12 doesn't stack up.

👍🏻

That's an interesting perspective, but I feel like you raise some really good points. Man, some hardware versions of Reason synths would be really cool!

Logic Pro 200 with free lifetime updates. Just saying.

@@kiujay FL studio also ... but are they any good for all the genre's?

I would think so? Logic has added a bunch of cool stuff recently. I've been meaning to do a video comparing it to some of Reason's features.

@@matthewstuartnz Nothing to compare !! Logic is way better on it's way, but I think that for hiphop/trap producers is a big mess !!!

It would be nice if they could try and be cutting edge again.

@@matthewstuartnz I don't see how it happens. The Reason shop hasn't really worked out. You now have Spectrasonics, Arturia, East/West, UVI, Orchestral Tools, Native Instruments, Modartt, Universal Audio, Synapse Dune, Waldorf Nave, and Apple Logic Pro's extensive library. Who needs Reason today and for what? What comes with The Rack doesn't measure up to what is available on the outside these days and the sequencer is no longer leading the pack.

That's a good point.

Some great points man. Very fair comments.

@@matthewstuartnz 🤟

Are you talking about when opening them in Reason 12? I'm not sure sorry.. I haven't actually tried opening third party VSTs on the Reason 12 DAW yet.

@@matthewstuartnz Yes when I open in Reason 12.If I click and open something like Ezdrummer or Guitar Rig 6 it is in a box shape that is way smaller than before and wont expand.They are basically unusable now.

True. I don't know sorry. I just tested it in Reason 12 and it works for me. I would suggest emailing Reason Studios directly about that one.

I feel you man. Are you still upgrading or have you moved on?

@@matthewstuartnz idk I did to 11 but 12 I really don't know. I'm already a FL studio user for 10 years too but reason ain't with all the $129 fee over the years

Yea FL has a fantastic upgrade system. It will be interesting to see how you feel once 12 releases properly. I'm thinking I'll probably be recommending people just stay on 11 if they have that, but we'll have to wait and see for sure.

I understand that it's gotten better. So hopefully it's completely sussed by release!

Fair enough. I don't blame you.

I didn’t want to have to agree with you but the last year has bought me to the point where I actually think you’re right 😔

@@matthewstuartnz look into it... it's truly disgusting

😭

Yea, you hit the nail on the head with paying $129 just to use what you already have in Ableton. I continue to support the company because I'm hopeful they will improve... but it's a position that is becoming harder to hold the more time goes on.

I think it’s even worse as they want to push people to the subscription. With so few changes it is very difficult to justify to oneself the price of the subscription. For that money you can also easily buy several plugins when they are on sale and then own them instead of needing to pay a monthly amount.

@@mudi2000a exactly!

That's a good point.

they will not due it apparently for one Reason the coding of the VST's change from company to another and not all the VST's have the same function in the combinator as an Re, this can cause on a very strange behavior and problems for the rack, making it crash and be very clunky to the end user !!!

Yea that is frustrating regarding third party VSTs. Honestly, I don't' think the combinator as it stands is that unique. The instrument racks in Ableton serve pretty much the same purpose but you can already put VSTs in those. Definitely keen to seen what the combinator update looks like though!

I don't know enough about coding to have a valid opinion here. But as an end-user, all I know is that I can use VSTs inside Maschine inside Ableton... so I know it can be done. But obviously understand it might not be practical within the Reason architechture.

What I was Talking about here was confirmed !!!

Thanks for checking out the video 🙏🏻 I'm keeping an open mind until it's officially released, but yea, most of the comments I've seen seem to share this sentiment.

I agree. The mixer is fantastic! Unfortunately, a fantastic mixer doesn’t mean there aren’t a bunch of other frustrations people have with the software.

Thanks for checking it out! yea, Reason 12 is definitely not a great improvement for a lot of people.

😴

Yea they said they are continuing support for the DAW but I'm starting to have my doubts... you're right, zoom is currently optimised terribly. I really hope they sort this out before the final release of 12. I haven't been using it any more zoomed in than 100% either.

Yea you can. It's not as robust as Recycle. Also, as far as I'm aware you can't if you're just using Reason as a VST?

@@matthewstuartnz correct. Recycle has much more features for rx2 editing and re-editing. Reason DAW rex export is the default Recycle settings (40% stretch) and thats it. Good for sketch edits and may be fine if you Rex at your song tempo

Hey Ivan, I'm not entirely sure what the upgrade path is going to be sorry. I might be wrong but I believe that there is only going to be one version of Reason 12 (so no suite). I would assume that you'd get all the features if you upgrade to Reason 12. There just won't be a Reason 12 Suite as far as I'm aware.

@@matthewstuartnz ok cool thanks

Are you planning on upgrading to Reason 12?

@@matthewstuartnz well I don’t know, maybe.

Wait and see how good the update is on September 1st before deciding. You got heaps of time!

Oh wow, I did not know that! It literally says it in the search bar but I just assumed that would take you to regular search. Thanks for letting me know!

Yea I think they would be oblivious to not recognise the problems. I just wish they would own them and fix them.

Thanks for checking it out! 🙏🏻 Have you been tempted at all to consider other DAWs? If so, which ones? If not, curious as to whether you feel limited by Reason in any way?

I never feel limited, I have all the DAWs but I like my tricks I’ve developed in Reason, I’m just realizing there are things that should have improved by now. And it’s been crashing more lately in the past year, and it feels like they are more focused on being a plug-in daw/company now for users to pull up in other daws. Ableton I try to use but knobs not being 3D just doesn’t feel right for me. I’m Finding Pro Tools to be easiest but also most cumbersome to quickly open and get something started.

Yea I hear you. There's definitely a lot of good points about Reason. Ableton's interface is weird if you're not used to it. But it's really grown on me and now I kind of like how it gets out the way.

I'm not out here endorsing cracks but I hear you.

Yea.. I think it's just becoming more and more obvious.

@@matthewstuartnz It's very apparent...especially if you have been using Reason longer than 8 years.

@@tristaningram4418 Yea, I've been using Reason for around 10 years I think.. I couple of years ago I started using Ableton cause of these reason's and now it's my primary DAW.

I think Reason Studios are actually pretty good at making synths for the most part. Reason Studios have said they don't play on discontinuing the DAW, but they have yet to demonstrate that for me. I wouldn't be surprised if it does turn into a service before long.

Ehh, I think they'll turn into a Kontak type of company because their REs are always solid

@@JoshAllen702 solid true but extremely taxing on CPU !

I wouldn't even mind that. I just wish they'd own what they are doing instead of saying one thing and not seeming to follow through.

Yea they need to really sort that out 🤦🏼‍♂️

Oh really? I'm a little out of touch with the sequencer as I haven't really used it for a couple of years now.

Lol that's pretty harsh 😂 but unfortunately also painfully relateable... 🤦🏼‍♂️

😅

You think? I've enjoyed a bunch of stuff since then. But yea, definitely a steady decline.

What do you think that would look like in terms of this analogy?

​@@matthewstuartnz Mini glossary : inflation : to provide a less than a "nice to have" feature. It could make the application prettier, but it won't render it more useful than what it is. At this point in time, Reason has the inertia of almost 20 successful years. It was revolutionary when it was launched. The software still does things that no other (that I know of) does, in a way that no other does. This is an advantage. Do they have the space to "inflate" as much as they can/want ? Yes, but not for too long. Customers are not stupid, and they can get tired. With time, those same customers will start using other DAWs in parallel (this takes time), and puff they wave their hand and "adios" Reason (?)

That was a good explanation 🙏🏻 I think we're already starting to see a lot of customers feel that way. That's one of the reasons why I switched to Ableton. Prior to them releasing 11 I'd considered dropping Reason completely before Ableton but then they announced the VST. I do really hope Reason manages to stay relevant. As you mentioned, it does have a bunch of really good features that you can't really get anywhere else.

@@matthewstuartnz Completely agreed. I am now paying more attention to Cubase. Just upgraded to 11. And the main reason (no pun intended) is what we just discussed. If anything I plan to use Reason more as a VST than my main DAW. Not thinking about buying version 12 any time soon.

What made you decide to go with Cubase? I haven't used it myself but I've heard a lot of people saying really good things about it.

Yea that's probably a fair comment. But don't you think Reason should also try and evolve to meet the needs of producers as music production styles evolve?

@@matthewstuartnz I think they are to a certain extent. While still keeping their existing users satisfied. The introduction of sound packs I think was a good idea. I'm not a sample or loop person and it's nice to see their sound pack focus more on sound design and devices rather than one shots and loops. Again I think Reason is more for the hands-on producers who like to tinker, do sound design and go in depth with their production.

I still use Reason 4.

@@HOLLASOUNDS ayyy If it has all you need why waste money? why did you choose to stay on 4? just curious

@@internetarchive369 Yes I'm still on reason 4 as I got used to using it for everything I want to and I know where everthing is. Plus I can't upgrade until I have finnished My projects which are in the hundreds. There is no garenty that My reason 4 projects will load up in reason 11 or 12.

Reason has never had free upgrades between versions. But that is a little strange that they would be discontinuing the Intro edition. There will be more to Reason 12 than just zooming. Unfortunately, that's all people are talking about right now because of how Reason Studios chose to release it. You're not tempted by the new sampler or anything? I've maintained for a long time that Reason should be free and they should just make money or selling the rack devices.

I don't even remember that! I think I got in on Reason 5...

Yea, I do find that frustrating. I don't mind them adding things to keep up with the other DAWs but let's not kid ourselves that it's groundbreaking.

Unnecessary stuff? That's not usually the complaint I hear. What do you think is unnecessary in Reason? Honestly, I don't blame you though, Studio One is fantastic.

@@matthewstuartnz ok look from a mixing engineer view if i was a beat maker id give reason a solid 10/10 because theres no way reason will crash on you easily while making beats

Ah that makes more sense. yea I can't imagine Reason being the best environment for a mix engineer. True about crashing though. I think in the 8 years I was using it exclusively it's only crashed on me like three times. Ableton crashes every other week 😂

Like how you can write in MIDI notes really quickly in Ableton? I honestly don't find myself using Ableton's draw tool very much. I actually prefer how it worked in Reason

@@matthewstuartnz Yeah and how you can click to erase the notes. Reason's pencil tool just adds notes and you have to hit control or alt (I forgot which one) to switch to the eraser tool.

Ah I see. I would just always use a keyboard command to switch to the eraser tool in Reason.

I would follow FL studio for a better piano roll. Ableton‘s piano roll makes me want to run away.

@@armi2n True, I'm starting to think they dont update it like crazy to Push (pun intended) users to get ableton push 😭.

Yea, wouldn't we usually expect an announcement video or something prior to release date? It might be different due to how they are drip feeding things on Reason +. I don't mind there being teething issues while they work something out doing things a new way... but things are starting to feel like we never get out of the teething issues phase.

@@matthewstuartnz All we got was our video almost 2 months ago officially announcing that Reason 12 was coming and then the cheesy videos about Hi-Res and that Reason+ users got stuff first. You'd think as long as it's supposedly been in the works things would of been in a much better place and better thought out. All we can do is hope things are better when the official release happens. I don't think people will stop using Reason but I think if this update isn't good they will just use the plugin which I think is what Reason Studios wants but people might not return after that.

@@xavierxook5848 Yea, I think you're right. We'll just have to wait and see.

Because sometimes you need to drive off-road and the Ferrari isn't suited to that. I totally hear what you're saying though and I think people should master the DAW they choose to use. However, I also think some discernment is required to realise the might be a better option for what you're trying to do. I was a hardcore Reason user for over 8 years before switching primarily to Ableton.

Not tempted by any of the new features announcements? Reason 11 Suite was a solid update for most people I think. I'm withhold my final opinion until 12 is out properly but I have a feeling I might be recommending people just stay on Suite if they have it.

🙏🏻

I hope so too.

Honestly, I don’t blame you 😔

Thanks man 🙏🏻 I actually like Reason +, but I do understand why it's not right for a lot of people. Based on what I've heard so far, I don't think Reason 12 will be an update that I will be recommending for people who are on the fence. However, I would love to be proved wrong and for them to release something incredible!

I am really looking forward to the unveiling of this updated Combinator. Sounds epic but I do think the features for the daw itself will be too few or too basic or something and probably leave people feeling underwhelmed.

Yea I'm kind of looking at the combinator and sampler to give me an indication of how serious Reason Studios are... If they are average, I think I'm going to lose a lot of confidence in the product. I think it's safe to assume people are going to feel underwhelmed by features updates in the DAW.

@@matthewstuartnz The proof is in the pudding as they say but hopefully they prove us wrong.

@@simontunnicliffe2107 I don't think that they have something under the arm that will prove us wrong !!!

Yea this is a frustrating truth. I hope they add vst3 support soon

Subtractor not Maalstrom

Lol really?? 😅

It's actually a thing?

Yea people have definitely been asking for better looks. Let's hope that them addressing that means they will also be looking at midi support and tools too.

Lol oh yea I didn't even think about how that would affect your DSP.. sure it will be negligible. Sequencer and editing functionality was always what was missing for me.

It's starting to feel a little bit like that.

Are you serious? That’s like new technology that you would expect to become standard for a forward thinking DAW…

Lol that's one way to look at it 😂 man I haven't used Pro Tools in years!

@@matthewstuartnz i used to hate pro tools and avid in general but what will u do man, its the industry standard. and the reason i say about cracked, look at FL and how people have been able to make it look like king because there are alot of reviews and its easy toget bugs easy to create extensions sometimes cracks do solve problems as i learned in my Cybersec class

FL is semi-garbage lol i know if there were reason cracks, FL would be irrelevent, tho i hate cracks but the price of reason to a starter is too much

Why would people crack FL? It has such a great upgrade plan anyway!

You don't like FL? I haven't used it in years but I've always thought it's very cool.

I'm withholding my final opinion until Reason 12 is out for sure. Have you used Ableton? You're totally right about personal preference. I've definitely been preferring the workflow of Ableton as far as DAWs go.

@@matthewstuartnz I have and it too is very powerful. it certainly does have a better workflow in my opinion and better short cuts as a DAW. But when it comes to Sound, even before mastering, Reason makes it. it’s richer more lively sounding DAW. that’s what why I personally prefer Reason over any other DAW. Also the fact that it doesn’t kill my Computer is a plus.

When you talk about sound are you referring to the instruments/effects channels and stuff?

@@matthewstuartnz yes and just how some sounds are automatically panned, compressed and eq. it’s just ready for Production. all you have to do is just balance the volume so every is audible. Stereo Imaging also is amazing. all other DAW can do the same but the process takes forever and most of the it’s not even there. Listen to Radical Keys for example, it’s so beautiful sounding and properly eq that it just blends the music together

I do love Radical Keys. Those rack extensions are actually really dope. 👌🏻

Yea, I'm definitely taking my first impressions with a grain of salt. But I do want to see it worked out by the proper Reason 12 release. I hope it's not one problem that becomes another problem that we're all hoping then gets resolved in Reason 13. Reason's instruments and effects are awesome, which is why I'm still so much of a fan. But, I'm sure we can all agree their track record of updates in the usability department has not been very good. I've got bad memories of how bad their implementation of cross-fades was and I have my fingers crossed that the graphics and browser won't end up with similar results.

Sure, but none of this worth a major upgrade. These are very basic developments to the consumer.

@@armi2n None of "what" isn't worth a major upgrade: you don't even KNOW what's going to be included in the next release. How WISE is it to hear a couple things coming and ASSUME that's EVERYTHING THAT WE'LL GET? Has that EVER been the case?

I assume you're using Reason as a DAW? Not quite sure what you mean by instrument and effects tabs are always open? Using it as a VST the browser is only open if you open it... Or are you talking about not being able to minimise them in the rack? Yea, I used to think it was just them prioritising certain things.. But that can only go on for so long before you wonder how good the coders are or if they even have a sufficient team. I know there are absolutely some extremely talented people working at Reason, but the team overall could still be letting things down.

that doesn't happen to me and I've been using reason 12 for weeks now.

Yea I don't think it's happening to me either.

Lol yea that would be a good start!