Upgrading from 11 to 13 worked out good for me. Initially, the $200 price tag had me raising an eyebrow until I compared it to similar plugins from 3rd parties. Most of the stuff on Plugin Boutique can easily cost $99 ea. There is value here, but I think it gets lost in the QoL focus of things that should be free like hi-res (normal) graphics. All that aside, Reason was smart to make the rack a plugin. The rack makes their DAW both unique yet awkward to use. It's an inspiring experience, for sure, and I may try to create something from start to finish, but the rack plugin is becoming a handy companion in almost all of my projects. Between the Reason Rack and Komplete 14 Ultimate + Maschine inside bitwig, I can make anything.
After using Reason for almost 15 years, I finally started thinking about switching to another DAW. If a loyal user starts thinking like this, something is really wrong.
Reason stand alone for free doesn't make sense. Just hire two professionals that specialize in using 2 of the best programs, that can also code, and use them to make Reason features competitive to Nuendo, Ableton,and Pro Tools Hd, or whatever. Make the $500 worth of value exceed everything else on the market.
I take a pragmatic view. Those missing features and tools, how often do you really need them? Sure there are situations you would love to have them and it might slow you down, but in the end this has rather a minor effect on your work and art. Those who now switch from Reason to Ableton, are they now producing better music?
I see what you're saying and that might apply to the specific differences in the 12.1 update. But honestly, the features and tools that Ableton has that Reason doesn't are things that I use all the time and have a major effect on what I can create.
If they're unable to offer anything new or at least something that is worthy of it being a reason to call it a whole new version then they should have just categorised it an update ie v12.8.0 NOT v13! But of course its a about the money and keeping up with cubase 13 and ableton 13 ... they were simply desperate and didn't really have a choice BUT there is no way they can justify the cost for this apparent new version. FAIL. They simply fell behind and needed to release v13 or risk being left behind.
back in the ancient days I loved reason because it was so frictionless moving from a hardware workflow. However 20 something years later, they are still there, and the world have move on. Hell, even ableton was nice coming from trackers, but they adapted to the times (sometimes at a slow pace, finally they are having tags for plugins) but adapted anyway
Thought I’d look at it, too test it. Now I can’t open my tracks on an older version of Reason. That sucks. Should have a huge warning. I want to go back to Reason 11 stand-alone , cos I don’t like Reason 13. However I can’t open my old projects.🤔 What happened to backward compatible?
Yea that's frustrating.. I had this happen to me last week with a track I opened in Ableton's beta.. I was sure I hadn't saved the session in beta! Thankfully Ableton has backups I could revert to in the old version.. I'm not sure Reason has backups..
Yup. I think I was doing this in this video? Back in the day I used to have the windows set to different gesture commands on mouse. Made switching between them super easy.
I only got 13 this week as a free upgrade from 12 so haven't spent enough time with it. But as a lifelong reason user who has tried most other DAWs, nothing compares to the amount of freedom of creativity Reason enables.
That's awesome! Freedom in regards to what exactly? Cause I felt the same way with switching to Ableton from Reason 😂 I'm always curious how different people value different aspects of the software.
It's a good deal until the next year ticks over.. It's like Waves selling there plugins super cheap all the time. It's a great deal until you want to update your version.. then it becomes expensive.
Honestly. I think this is really lame . Most guys complaining couldn't write a decent track to begin with no matter how many bells and whistles they have and I've heard some great tracks written on reason 3. Hell I've seen some amazing things done with juat the maelstrom alone. So whatever. I love reason and I love ableton for different reasons and I use both.
The reason upgrades are good for the reason user specifically but not good for the modern day producer in general. So if you are coming from another daw, you will miss a lot basic stuff that was at your finger tips.
Reason is my fav DAW since 2009, I moved from Cubase/Nuendo and I've been wanting ever since........STill doesn't categorize VSTs like other DAWS, no midi to audio routing, no Midi note follow, no stock Dynamic Eq, cant save SSL mixer presets, cant copy mixer settings between channels, no stock De-esser, Reason Rack doesn't maximize to full screen, theres 3 places a device can be "muted" (sequencer, Rack, mixer) and theres no notification on which one it is, . Nothing they added is game changing or a must have, they added ANOTHER synth when there are already better FREE versions out, the updates to the browser, tool menu and sequencer are things that should've been a 12.5 patch not a fully paid update. Added a Delay like we needed another, then added more mediocre things like Gain, Sidechain and Stereo tools...... There's free stereo tools out like Polyverse Wider, Ozone Imager so i can't get excited about those either....... The browser/tool menu changes are a step towards the right direction but all @reasonstudios has to do is write down what 13 doesn't do BUT every other stock DAW has by default and go from there........... Upgraded on the $1 subscription plan and rolled back to 12. the update just isn't worth another $200 for me so glad i tried before i bought. Now if theres things YOU like in the update then Im all for it! Use what your comfortable with.. Im just commenting on my specific workflow and thought process. (close but no cigar)
Just too much money for too little REAL functionality being added. Sadly, these days you have to wait out about 3-4 upgrades to justify the cost. 12 was even less being added, so 12 and 13 TOGETHER for $200 is STILL too much. I GET IT that between 12 and 13, they've fixed some WORKFLOW/APPEARANCE stuff: FINALLY being high res (that took TOO LONG), some usability, minor effects and tools... but that just IS NOT ENOUGH for the rest of us that want NEW MUSIC MAKING CAPABILITIES (with a tiny "not worth the cost" nod to Polytone and the new effects).
One of the things I think I said about 12 is that you don't get congratulations for doing the bare minimum that was expected from you in the first place. I think this kind of applies to 13 as well.
@@matthewstuartnz Yeah sadly. I WANT to love Reason so bad, and DO for what it does, but without VALUE in the upgrades, just can't pull the trigger. It's a competitive marketplace. Always VSTs on sale (Black Friday, Prime Day, etc. etc. etc.), new products out, etc. So pulling the trigger on $199 just for some features I'd get little practical value from is down the LIST from all the other goodies drawing my attention. Right now, looking at Ujam's Vogue and Vibe, which, at HALF the price of the upgrade for the two of them together, would give me WAY MORE FUN and musical opportunities to say nothing of the $100 left over for other toys. These days you can't just fix some stuff that should have been done prior (e.g. 4K resolution -- the monitors were mainstream in 2016, so, yeah, support for them 5 years later is not an "upgrade" it's an embarrassing CATCH UP), and do some basic incremental advances, a couple minor plugins (didn't even toss in Objekt which might have got me there) and command the kind of money they want. These days you need something ATTENTION GETTING in your upgrade. Objekt COULD have been that, but Polytone and the other effects don't quite cut it, at least for me.
Yea I think you're right on all counts. I like Polytone and I think Ripley is pretty innovative. But Objekt would have been a good thing to add to the official release. It's probably the most innovative thing they have done in a while.
I decided to stop my subscription. Moving on. I'm tired of waiting for basic features. My two other DAWs keep getting fantastic updates so no point in pulling my hair anymore because of Reason Studios' weird focus. New browser? The last thing I wanted and needed. I was fine having my patches in folders, I don't need stupid tags. "Oh, I want something analog, evolving, boomy, lush.." 🙄Do you find this so useful? So much that you even tag your own patches? Which is a stupid cumbersome two-step workflow.
Yeah Reason's DAW can't compete with Ableton at all, in fact, why do they even still bother with their DAW? And the Reason perpetual license upgrade cost to 13? LMAO they are on some mighty fine crack. Reason rack is cool, unfortunately the Reason+ subscription price is way out of touch with reality. It should be no more than 10 bucks a month. I can guarantee they aren't getting many subscribers at 20 bucks a month, its stupid.
What blows my mind is that Propellerhead's Rebirth is what gave the company a spot on the map and 20 + years later there is still no 303 stock in Reason. That literally should have been the first instrument within reason. And not through the Rebirth input machine crap.
@@matthewstuartnz I know man. Its so sad. Changed the name to reason studios. So lame. Changed the logo to a cube. Also so lame. And what the hell is up with the website. I'm about to pass out trying to navigate it. I loved Reason when it was lean and mean. It really forced creativity. Now it's bloated. Well everything in the music software world is bloated now I guess!
Bloated yet somehow still missing so much 🤦🏼♂️ I remember thinking that 'Reason Studios' was a name change that made sense (although I thought Propellerhead was better) given the exciting possibilities of the Reason Rack Plugin when they released that. But unfortunately, I really don't think they have lived up to the potential that we all hoped for.
Good video! I have Ableton 12 (awesome with Max) and FL Studio 24 (always terrific for quick mad scientist vibes). But Reason 13 remains my go to music production tool (a user since Rebirth was released in the 90s) when I am not in Avid. The rack is so familiar to hardware and the sound quality is always top rate! Sorry, but the synths in Live and Fl Studio just are not comparable to the Reason devices for me. Grateful I can afford to dabble in different DAWs. In my view, if you enjoy working with hardware, Reason will often be a good fit. If you primarily like working with software, then there are numerous other options for a beginner that are way cheaper (e.g., Reaper). The one downside of being a Propellerhead fan for decades is that they always do what they want to do regardless of what users say. But in their defense, I have always had the most consistent fun making music on a computer using their products. Peace!
Last reason I had was 6. On a whim I tried whatever Live version that was out at the time. Never looked back. The workflow for reason was just such PITA! With Live and Bitwig .. the limiting factor is ME. I can do anything I want and fast.
"the limiting factor is ME".. I think that's a good way to put it. I think I feel the same way. The whole reason I switched to Live was cause there were specific things I felt were limiting me in Reason. I haven't found that yet in Live.
Honestly, since the departure of Ernst Nathorst, the new CEO has focused on marketing and business models rather than on innovation and implementing current standards.
Innovation is basically illegal when your company has been besieged by a venture capital firm, which Reason Studios has. Only thing on the agenda is to maximize profits from existing assets with as little investment as possible. It's happening to NI as well.
Imagine if they had hired Ekssperimental Sounds to do make his REs (which are hilariously expensive, by the way) as native devices. Reason would be looking a lot more interesting.
Holy shit. Still no note chase? That should have been addressed like 10 years ago. I remember that being the most annoying part of reason. How much time is wasted that you have to go back to the start of the midi clips. Especially parts with drones.
Reason is no longer competing as a full complete proper main DAW... All they want is new subscribers. Not even interested in perpetual license owners... They just want you to use the rack plugin in live... As a subscriber, of course...
Reason is 🗑 I tried using Reason back in the day and then tried again 2 years ago (with the plug-ins inside my own DAW) and it just wasn’t worth the money to pay per month. They should just trash the DAW and become a Plugin company. The workflow is not intuitive, fast or easy to use. Making music should be fun not a chore.🙄
@@matthewstuartnz $0.00 I’d rather buy my plug-ins outright instead of paying for them for 10, 15 or 20+ years no matter how cheap it is. … it sucks to pay for something, and if you decide to stop paying for it, you end up with nothing, not even an older version. You know what Imean?
It will be very nice if reason implemented into the slice detection feature where if the program noticed a slice on a track that you highlights it will automatically give you the option to John those clips without you having to click click and click one less click will make a world of a difference.
Reason Studios turned their back on legacy version users. Anyone using Reason 11 or earlier is now forced to authorize their license online every time they open Reason. I purchased a license for software that could be used offline whenever and wherever. I have a USB ignition key which worked like a charm for many years that no longer works which infuriates me. I shouldn't have to phone home every time I open Reason. I have to authorize my license online every time I open Reason which means I won't be allowed to use it unless I'm connected to the internet. Their online licensing system is not efficient and takes way too long which is very discouraging. That type of licensing system didn't exist when I purchased my license and I think implementing anything that affects the user experience in a negative way should be illegal.
I like all the DAWs. I don't have anything against anyone. I used FL Studio for 6 years (my first DAW), I have Ableton Live Lite, Logic Pro and tried a bunch of others. However, rn I just like Reason the most. You just can't compare the look and feel of a DAW and how well you can work with it on paper. Yeah, FL got free lifetime updates, however, everything they released in the last 5 years was not interesting to me, or at least not enough to give it another go, since the workflow is so different (and worse IMO). I think Ableton is great but I just dislike using it because of the navigation in the sequencer and it looks like a spreadsheet (dont get me wrong, I like the modern look but compared to Reason it's a sterile operating room, especially the devices). Now a days it's just not the software holding me back. My favorite music was made with software 10 years ago. I bet they didn't have MIDI chase back then. Great video and a fair comparison. However, too often new features sound great on release but rarely get adopted into the normal workflow. Reason needs to speed up their development for sure, however, for now I will stick to it. Have a nice weekend everyone.
Yea everything you've said spot on. It's all good to talk about feature sets but at the end of the day that isn't what's stopping people from making music.
After discovering your channel and being a reason user myself since reason 3, I didn’t know if you had any experience with recycle and spectrasonics. One of your videos posed a transpose conundrum. I figured out away several years ago that allows me to take any recorded sound and turn them into rhythmic fodder that is completely adjustable not just by bpm but also pitch and meter- so, the recording of a vocal or guitar riff or what ever in the key of A for example in 4/4 time ar 122 bpm can be modulated in real time to C in 5/8’at 110 bpm. This can also be automated. I find this flexibility helpful - I compose for modern dance companies 8-20 min pieces of music and this technique allows for really great development
Thanks much for the follow-up. My thought is that they should not allow it to be opened as a standalone DAW inside another DAW. They should really just make the improvements people want to see in the standalone DAW. There's so much potential and a chance for them to be back in the upper echelon of DAWs if they just...listen to their customers. I like the new update, but I've been exploring other DAWs Ableton and Studio One over the last couple of years., and like you, I also use Maschine. I think the thing that's kept me from committing full time to another DAW is that none of the other DAWs are as inspiring to me upon opening it as Reason had been over the years. Visually, there is no other DAW as stunning as Reason. That keeps me hanging on. However, I think I will make the tough decision to commit to another DAW as a companion to Maschine...with Reason as a Rack Plugin. I'll likely still make beats in Reason from time to time. We'll see.
I think they should just improve the standalone version too.. But I don't think they will so I suggested what I think would be a good compromise (and remove the pressure to add all the workflow features in standalone). Basically, I don't think they will ever improve standalone enough (although that would be the best result I think) and so I think they should change direction with the product.
I downloaded 13 not expecting to lose 12 which I was getting the hang of as a beginner. Im not happy now as feel totally confused and robbed 12 is no longer available.
What are you missing from 12? Honestly, I think if you're just finding your feet with the workflow, 13 is ultimately better. I'd take the time to get used to the differences.
Yea I get that. I like the new layout on 13 but I also wasn't using 12 regularly. I'm sure you'll get used to it though. Ableton changed their layout (and keyboard commands) a bit in their latest update and that messed with my head for a few weeks. I'm used it it now though haha
I still have that Record box too! I have it and a number of other physical Reason versions, I was using it since version 2.5. I switched to Ableton after Reason 13 was announced. It was honestly death by a thousand cuts for me. I'm extremely sad about it as Reasons skewmorphism is what made me fall in love with it - and I still love it. But at some point I realised that brand loyalty was keeping me around. Reason+ was the beginning of the end for me. I used to be able to just buy Reason, but being pushed to subscribe monthly to get the full range of Propellerhead devices was a non-starter for me. Note chase, track grouping and midi clip looping were the immediate features I found in Ableton when using the trial that made me realise I could never go back, and now I'm like, wait a minute, these are such basic features - it's inexcusable that Reason doesn't have them!
Haha yea, you'll find you keep stumbling on features like that in Ableton that you realise just make so much sense. Another one that I really love (if you haven't discovered it yet) is if you hold down Cmd you can click and drag up or down on a MIDI note and it will change velocity. Makes making expressive edits super quick and easy in the piano roll.
Oh yea, it's a great one. Another thing I do in my default session is set the 'D' (caps lock matters) key to be the stop button. That way you can always push it twice to get back to the start of the track. Otherwise there isn't a keyboard shortcut for that unfortunately. If I think of any other useful tricks, I'll let you know.
@@matthewstuartnz Yeah. It looks like a copy of Ableton. There is no limit in the number of tracks at all,for example. Then you can buy expansion packs.
People go buy 3rd party vst"s to use in reason..but dont wanna pay for they plugins thats for sale. People want them for free 😂.... ALL DAWS HAVE PROS AND CONS...i test them all the time...its about what you know and what you do. Shalom
Hey just stay with ableton....yes reason need features. But is it a deal breaker? Do it stops your workflow? People dont think about thinks untill they realize they need it now..before a feature came..people still created music.. abelton live nice.. but the GUI HORRIBLE has no inspiration at all
I am able to do anything I want in Reason, but I have been really shocked at how they have been treating their users who keep asking for features that are now old hat in other DAWs. I used Reason back in 2004, then again in 2008. Then I stopped and reinstalled it in 2020 wanting to get back into music. And I found that the community had died. It's dead. There used to be Reason refill websites, a Propellerhead music conference, well-known producers promoting Reason, and a thriving online community. It's all gone because Reason has been so stubbornly silent in addressing user complaints over features they've been asking for over a decade now! Like... why? Why not just do it? So now, even though I love Reason for my own personal use, I find that the product I rely on so much might be a sinking ship and is completely disregarded by the broader producer community. And to boot, they for some reason made the decision to stop making their awesome high-quality RU-vid tutorials and replaced those with amateur user-generated content and long, rambling live streams. Why would they do that? It's like they're self-sabotaging.
Yea, I used to think their RU-vid tutorials were some of the best in the game. And I know what you mean about not addressing things. I've made the comparison that I think Reason is a bit like Apple in the sense that they can seem late to the game with implementing features that their competition has. The difference is, when Apple releases a feature, it's rock solid and awesome. Recently, It's felt a lot like when Reason releases a feature, it's half-baked and lazy. I thought their roadmap they released after 12 was a good step in the right direction. And, after some delays, they did end up doing what they said they would. But they haven't really kept up with the dialogue.
Hey : keep in mind that 12 was $199 for upgraded combinator - VST 3 - support and HD GUI, 50 samplers not one proper pitch stretching tool 🤣🤣 if one is REASON 1.0 to 13 user, what is the value of reason now $1500 ? Also have you noticed that NI gives ZERO shits about updating Maschine Now : these are your words " EVERYTHING IN REASON SEEMS UNFINISHED" and I agree with this statement 100% Cheers 🥂 🥂
NI is on a MUCH slower update cycle based around hardware first. They released the Maschine+ four years ago and have recently refreshed their Komplete Kontrol keyboards and have been updating their software desgin. I think the Maschine Mk4 and Maschine 3 will be next in order to bring them in line with the new keyboards. I really hope the Maschine Mk4 has MPE pads though.
