Reason 12 is half done & lazy 🤦🏼‍♂️ (it's also great) 

I think you're right.

😂

Lmao

Yes, 100% Correct ! In my opinion Reason Studios have to spend a Free RackExtension (Own Choice, including Algorythm) as a BIG Sorry to the early Adoptors for this Buggy Software ! And there is much to do ! GFX, Bugs : Try to unfold all Template Rackextensions, and then look at the Birds view - Can u see the Black space missing the GFX ? Or try to flip the Rack with a big project loaded : for me it takes Minutes ! and there was Reason 11 much Faster... And yes, it is a Shame that the DAW Part has got NOTHING in this "Update"... MSG to Reason Studios : Your Software is sold as a DAW, not as a Graphics Demo (what the hell is the Spinning Fan making in a DAW ????) it´s the Sound and the Composition that makes the Music, not the Spinning Fan ! and if u not able to bring a Modern DAW with features like, ChordTracks or Intelligent userdefinable Macros, then u should better sell it as a Musical INSTRUMENT and not as DAW because even the free Cakewalk have more Power than Reason ! So PLEASE take a looooong look at PreSonus Studio One 5 to learn how a Modern DAW should work and look today !

I completely agree.

Yup 👍🏻

😂

@@carstenherbst2934 Yay, finally someone else talks about the damn spinning fan ! High five ! I'd really love to know how this even came out as a top feature in their office meetings... Seriously, is it a video game or a DAW ? I'm really frightened and sad to read how this new version eats up CPU and is so unfinished on many aspects...

Yea, that's what I'm worried about. To be honest, I think it's just disrespectful that 12 didn't come with the things that have been released in Reason+.

A wet firecracker! 😂 Yea crossfading in Reason sucked. That was one of the Reason's I switched to Ableton and when they did add it, it was still worse. I was at least hoping it would be comparable.

I think that they expected this backlash from long-time users and were prepared to suck it up. They seem to aiming for a new breed of customers who want to make "beats" whilst paying for it with their pocket money.

I've been wondering this for a while. And I'm slightly concerned about it.

@@TheValueOfN So true !

I think they dont have the money to keep the developer working.

@@iliravdyli4109 I wonder what car the Propellerhead CEO drives :)

@@iliravdyli4109 BINGO!

Great question.. I would also love to know the answer to that.

At this point I would rather deal with Ableton crashing every other week than Reason not letting me do what I want to do.

I was in the same boat. I upgraded to 11 which I’m glad about as it’s vst. But definitely won’t be upgrading until they sort their stuff out…..consistently. I like FL studio for ease of use, but I’d consider myself a reason power user and Cubase to me seems to have the best of all worlds.

@@eviloutionise not a lot of buzz around their releases anymore. Its getting kind of empty on talkbacks on their various social media pages. sad man.

That's the worst part. It's hard to switch when you're so invested. I agonised over it for months before I did.

Yea, the idea of learning another DAW as well as you know Reason is daunting.. It took me weeks to get what I would consider proficient at Ableton. Even now I probably still know the Reason DAW more throughly (I was familiar with every workflow detail) and I haven't really used it in years!

@@matthewstuartnz it is really hard, especially if you have hardware background. I used to speak so highly of Reason. Convinced 4 of my friends to use it years ago, before it got lazy. Sad to see it running on fumes like this. Used to upgrade instantly up to 10. Had to stop throwing money at them, their middle finger is so close up in their long time users faces. .

This is an interesting point 🤔

Thanks for the sub! 🙏🏻 I know how you feel man. I was very reluctant to leave Reason and learn a new DAW but I'm glad I did. Being able to take Reason as a VST definitely made it easier though.

@@matthewstuartnz No problem for the sub, it's well deserved ! Congrats for being able to switch ! I really admire those who can change their DAW habits. I tried Ableton Live once, but it lasted 5 minutes as I was completely lost trying to figure out where was what. Logic is another thing, maybe closer to Reason in terms of UI, but not having the same sequencer workflow had me lost a bit as well, though I might get used to it if I ever had to change. But really, Reason is so unique that I definitely can't think of using any other DAW. It's my everyday tool, literally. I do everything from start to finish within Reason. I can't even imagine myself having to learn everything again AND losing the benefits : crazy cabling, devices or FSB sounds you think you know by heart but they're still awesome because you can rediscover them anytime (kudos for the BeatMap x Dr. OctoRex trick, BTW !)... All those things are part of my beloved Reason - even those who are cruelly missing. I really genuinely love that thing since day one, and despite its quirks and missing features, I really can't think of going elsewhere. But I don't understand what the Props want to do with us and where they want to take their flagship product. What's really sad is their lack of real communication. I'm not talking about their tasteless promo videos or streams where everybody's over-excited and congratulates each other, but you never hear or read them commenting on "negative" points - only on every user praising Reason. I'm really talking about how they avoid, elude, ignore anything that's not in the green column. It's not only stupid but it's also disrespectful toward their users, and I'd say it's even dangerous for them, especially when you see more and more users leaving the boat... I'm not saying we have to bash Reason. It's an excellent DAW with mysteriously still unresolved and unimproved features. But I hate their... I don't even know how to call that : fake happiness ? Fake enthusiasm ? I hate that so much. Not being able to just comment or reply on crucial points is really being dishonest to us (not even just the long-time users). Sometimes I feel they (the frontmen) are tied to rules, just like you have a NDA when you're beta testing. It's weird. Reading so much alarming comments from long-time users SHOULD wake them up. It's not normal.

yea, I find it really telling that on my videos where I haven't gone easy on my criticism, I have got over 90% of comments agreeing with me. I was critical in my Reason 11 review but probably wasn't as nuanced in my delivery. I had a few more haters there 😅 But I stand by what I said. Glad to hear you found some of my videos helpful! I almost didn't switch to Live.. I made a couple of beats and it was slow and hard and didn't sound like me. But I persevered cause I'd already paid for the suite! 😅 Realistically, I needed it for work, but now I just love it and it's my favourite DAW. I also have Logic but don't love the workflow. I have so many unfinished tracks in Reason. If they updated the sequencer, I'd probably jump back in and finish them.

That's actually a fantastic point! 👌🏻

@@matthewstuartnz I’m glad you made this video- it all needed to be said. At this point it’s fair to assume that small iterative updates will be the norm for 13,14,15 et all because of their sub model so it’s anyones guess when or if the DAW portion gets a substantial update. I just bought a Kontrol S49 and use it in conjunction with Bitwig 4.1 and the workflow is exactly what I need. Insanely good integration. Plus I sometimes use midi in clips launcher view to trigger maschine 2 scenes. Give it a try someday 😎

Oh that's an interesting idea! Yea man the S49 is a great keyboard. Mine has become the center of my rig. So versatile.

I hear you man. Not adding Friktion, etc was just disrespectful.

Now that we know Reason+ was in development way before the release of Suite, I still can’t believe they released it then abandoned it and knew all along that was their plan. Now that I think about it, RS said “we’re not sure if there will be another Suite”, and I bet they said that because the only way there would have been a Suite 12 is if they failed to make their Reason+ deadline and would use it as a fallback plan. I don’t disagree with Reason +, just their lack of honesty and transparency with the whole thing!

@@Brandwebgo like I’ve said. Greed. It reminds me too much of how Adobe behaved when they went subscription. I stopped using them when they went subscription AFTER years of being a power user and poster boy for them. Their press was all lies and just felt like a greedy, anti consumer FU move to all of their user base. Adobe has a monopoly unfortunately. Propellerhead doesn’t. Plenty of better more consumer friendly choices in music software these days.

@@umanoid1523 When adobe pulled their BS, I switched over to Serif’s Affinity Suite and haven’t looked back.

@@Brandwebgo me too except i now have clients that i have to use adobe tools for. Id rather not but for compatibility sake. My client pays for it but id rather abandon them all together. Ive forgotten so much it slows me down every time open it up. Im old enough to have been using adobe since 1.0 on all of their software.lol

Agree 100% I’m looking at cubase

Even Reason Studios USES Ableton’s live DAW in their videos. That says it all really. 😶 Propellerhead... left us some nice instruments, fx and utilities though. All good things come to an end. Looks like this is the last stop for lots of users. Not to have VST3 host capabilities is a shame in 2021.

Yea, I don't know if they could ever pull me back to use the DAW.

I'm almost in the same situation as you, (except I'm not happy with the way that Live 11 Suite glitches on my - supposedly - capable laptop). Live 10 Suite with Reason 11 Suite as a VST is where I'm at right now.

Oh you're having glitches with Live? It crashes every couple of weeks for me but other than that it's pretty stable.

@@Aeoxmusic It's not just complaining about what we could have or dream of. It's just plain disrespect toward loyal and long-time users who, as Nakid wrote, do love Reason, and have been asking legitimate features since 10 years (basic features that all other DAWs have) and are still seeing nothing today. Not only do the Props never listen to what they could add, but they're also totally ignoring those who legitimately complain. The only comments you see from Ryan or RS are replies to those who praise Reason. The rest is simply ignored - they don't even deny or comment or debate. They just ignore us, their loyal long-time users who have always been supporting their beloved product - and who will apprently massively skip this upgrade, which means something, I guess... The lack of communication of the Props is incomprehensible, but at the same time, sadly shows an obvious hint as to where they're going.

Great point.

For me it was a matter of Reason actually not being able to provide me with a way to do what I was trying to do. I switched to Ableton and found I could do everything I was thinking of and more (specifically in regards to how I was wanting to manipulate audio in the sequencer).

I know for a fact they hear the criticisms. They just don't seem to do anything.

Yea they definitely made it seem like you could choose both.. But apparently you can't.

That would be great if it's the case but to be honest, it's hardly enough.

Yup 🤦🏼‍♂️

they're installed in a different folder that's why you need to do it manually !!!

@@DeejayAfro I'm glad someone pointed this out.

@@StephenTJames well, Not everybody has a knowledge about IT !

Thanks for checking out the video! Yea, I've learned that now. Pretty silly that's the case

Okay, that kind of makes sense... Still pretty dumb though.

Haha 😂 yea the hair situation is getting out of control.. we've been in lockdown so I haven't been able to get a cut 🤦🏼‍♂️ And yup, the studio definitely needs some love

What did you end up doing? I think that's probably the best more tbh

Thanks!

Yea it seems a bit like that! 😂

Honestly, that's what I'm concerned about and is one of the reasons why I keep talking about it. I love Reason and don't want to see it die.

Lol yea I got the email a few days after I posted this video 😂

Lol you can actually buy Reason Compact as an iPad app.. It's not good 🤦🏼‍♂️

I just hope they don't cripple 10. I do want 12 for the new combinator but not for $129. They never have sales on uprade pricing.

I hear you man. I love Reason but don't like where this is going.

That's what I'm concerned about for all the people who say they are just going to stick with an old version. Unless you're planning on maintaining an old computer, it will eventually become redundant.

@@matthewstuartnz I just built a new audio rig with a intel i9. m.2 drives and 2.5" SSDs. What a HUGE improvement over my 10 year old dell workstation I was using before. Fast, responsive. Projects that took up 95% of CPU now take up 7%. 10 will have a lot of life as far as what I can throw at it. But the real problem is after seeing how Reason Studios keeps taking the L and looking at how other DAWs plus stuff like Maschine do things so much better and modern.....Reason will simply end up fading away due too smarter buyers. Hard to fool folks now with the internet and instant information.

@@busywl69 I want the Combinator 2 too. Mimic can fuck right off. The upgrade price from 11 Suite is not worth it for anyone who appreciates the true worth of their hard-earned cash.

Yea man, unfortunately I think you're going to be right about this one. 🤦🏼‍♂️

It's getting expensive...

Studio One is a great choice. I'm constantly baffled becuase I know they know what the community is saying. They just don't seem to care.

@@matthewstuartnz I think they don't listen because they don't want us long term "pro" users. They want new kids to buy into the subscription model and spend money on loops and sample packs. They are going down the route of paint by numbers music for the Tik Tok crowd. Personally I think it will be their downfall but they are looking for fast cash right now. Profit first.

Honest question... I remember Reason from back in its "glory days", must have been around 2005ish... have they ever really knew / cared what was best for you all? I never really used it. Sure... i patched a few cables for the novelty. I just never really saw the hype after that. It was always behind the curve.

That's an interesting thought.

i got into it because I liked the idea of it all being self-contained and I couldn't afford heaps of VSTs, etc at the time.

Fair enough man. I don't love Reaper, I don't think it's for me. But I know it's super powerful and a lot of people love it!

Studio One is great man! If I hadn't bought into Ableton Live, I'd totally be using Studio One right now. I still think about subscribing to their monthly thing every now and then.

They said in a blog post just now that they are thinking about it. So leave your ideas on social media and hopefully they will prioritise it!

I don't even blame you.

Have you tried re-scanning your VSTs inside Ableton?

Yea, Reason's got a lot of good reasons to use it.. unfortunately it's just a few steps removed from being the complete package atm

Yea, I hope so.. But honestly atm I don't even feel like I could say for sure.

Lol that's a good analogy 😂

Excellent choice 👌🏻

Yea, if it works for you it's great. But I hate hearing the workflow frustrations other users have and feeling like I can't even argue.

Yea man.. Reason could have been the coolest DAW ever.

Oh yea the spinning fan has definitely had a huge impact on my music making.

Yea man. Honestly, I could rather they delayed it than released it in the state it's currently in.

Yea man, all your suggestions are spot on. I do really like Reason's mixer and do agree that Reason has strengths for pros. However, (and maybe what I didn't communicate very well) is that I think the things it lacks outweigh the strengths relative to other DAWs. For example, there are things I really don't like about Ableton and think Reason does better. But Ableton has less I don't like and more that actually improves my workflow. Reason is the other way around.

@@matthewstuartnz what makes me mad, and I guess other people too, is that there isn't a functional limitation to making music in reason. The main features of a daw are there (audio and midi sequencing, virtual instruments with the core devices, re's and vst2, mixing and summing, etc.) and they still have one of the stablest systems around. They just had to push a little more to get the workflow at par with other daws, and have the option to save your project audio separately. I liked the idea of a consolidated format but keeping multiple versions of a 2 GB file with ssd's is not easy.

Yea, you're right there. It's good enough that you can complain about it and people will say you're whining for no reason. But it's not good enough that it's actually ground-breaking in any way. I also like the idea of the consolidated file format in theory, but after using Ableton for a while, I no longer think it's practical.

Yea, I've started to feel like Reason is being marketed to more of a casual musician. And yea, I think it's surprising that they feature Ableton so much in their promo material.

👌🏻

I've wanted that for many years... Apparently it is too much to ask.

I'm not sure it's Mattias' fault?🤔

I think that the new owners are the problem.

yea I know this now. A bit silly it's like that though.

There is a lot of great stuff about Reason as a DAW and if it's working for you that's awesome! It's still a great solution for a lot of people.

Yea, I do actually like Reason for recording audio. Unfortunately, the things I don't like about it for that still outweigh the things I do 🤦🏼‍♂️

Yea man, a tier without sound packs would be cool. I feel your pain main, I subscribe to Reason+ but I still think twice about the idea of buying anything from the company. I just don't know what they are doing anymore.. Like, is it a safe investment? 😅

That's actually a great idea re the midi files!

I know man. I want them to do this so much.

Yea man, at this point I think using it in another DAW is the best way to go.

Hmm.. Yea so badly introduced

Yup. 🤦🏼‍♂️

yea, I keep updating cause of nostalgia.. But I wonder if I'll ever start to second guess it.

Yea, I still use Reason all the time in my projects but it definitely feels less professional than a lot of my other plugins. I'm probably too young to remember that 😅

Thanks! 🙏🏻

Is it? I haven't actually looked.

That's a really good way of putting it.

I feel quite the same. I already have Friktion (the most interesting and awesome device they've release in the latest years, to me) so I wouldn't have been against maybe Algoritm and Pattern Mutator. That would have justified the € 129. But just Combinator and Mimic aren't worth it. I don't really care about hi-res graphics and the spinning fan, and reading from other users, this new version is also quite CPU hungry.

@@Oper8Music How did you get Friktion? Did you buy it separate? Or are you on plus? Yes I have a few unfinished but epic strings power music and I tried making it sound as real as possible but I wonder how different the sound would be on Friktions stings. I'd just copy the midi over to Friktion and then record Me playing with the mod wheel. I think the Combonator is cool but it's basicly going to kill off new rack exstentions. Yes the Mimic sampler is taking up 60% of cpu.

@@HOLLASOUNDS Yep, I bought it when it was slightly discounted. No way I'm on R+, the Devil's invention ! :D Friktion sounds great, it's really impressive in terms of nuances, especially for solo parts. I love playing random stuff live with it ! I prefer StringWERK for massive or epic strings, though it lacks a few things (movement and randomization in the Animator patch, among others). Mimic eating up so much CPU is really bad. I wonder if they will eventually fix this... I don't know if the new Combinator will really kill new REs. I mean, it allows for crazy devices, but some specific DSP processing or subtle things like maths stuff, for instance (think sequencer Players) are only possible in a RE.

The Mimic sampler is unusable for me cause of the CPU 🤦🏼‍♂️

I think they should have add at least a few of the past years new devices. It's just disrespectful that they didn't.

Yea.. these are all good points.

Sorry I didn't see this in time 🤦🏼‍♂️ What did you end up doing?

@@matthewstuartnz Hey no problem :D , I actually waited as I suspected that there will be Reason 13 soon. So now I will probably wait for a discounted upgrade price as I am mostly working in reaper these days but I love Reason. In any case think 11 to 13 jump would be worth the price. Thanks for responding even this late. I hope you have a great day!

Oh yea! I don't know if you've seen my Reason 13 video I just released but I think 11 to 13 would be a great update! I think the new version has a lot of great stuff for people in your situation.

The users since day one can get it... if they upgrade to 12. Which, let's be honest, isn't that compelling a prospect.

Yea I think there are definitely pros of Reason+ but I understand why a lot of people don't like it.

Yea it doesn't feel like a finished update 🤦🏼‍♂️

👌🏻

Reason Compact is a complete joke. It could be a really cool mobile app if they actually decided to put any effort into developing it. Although, tbh I'd rather their effort just goes into fixing 12.

People have written heaps of suggestions and ideas in different forums so I won't be able to give you an exhaustive list. But some that were particularly frustrating for me inlcuded: lack of functionality when it came to resampling and manipulating audio in the sequencer, substandard automation curves, lack of ability to group tracks in the sequencer, lack of functionality with aspects of the piano roll. There are other things too but these are some of the main ones that I personally found frustrating.

I've been wondering this, too. Since they've become reason studios, are they going to be splitting the Rack from the DAW? Maybe they are creating another stand alone sequencer with a completely different workflow from the timeline sequencer included in the Reason DAW. That might explain why there is hardly any attention to updating the sequencer in Reason. Maybe they are too constrained by their legacy code?

That's an interesting idea. I hope you're right!

Honestly, I wouldn't be mad if this turned out to be the case.

Yea a partial zoom would be cool.

hahahahaha !!!

😂

Lol fair enough. Honestly, I think they see a lot of the comments. They just don't listen.

Yea, I was expecting more than what we got tbh.

If Reason does everything you want it to, then it's a great choice! A lot of people won't have any issues with it and it is a great piece of software. I left using it as a DAW cause my workflow was changing and Reason was starting to limit things I was trying to do in my production.

@@matthewstuartnz exactly

I did not. Other than downloading the new version. Kind of dumb that you have to do this though.

Yea, I'm surprised they didn't include the new instruments in the release.

🤦🏼‍♂️

Gutted. Sorry to hear that 😭

Good call.

I use Ableton 99% of the time (with the Reason Rack plugin). I also have Logic but basically never use it.

Yea fair enough.

Lol oh man I think you have just described the perfect DAW! 😅 Can someone do that please 🙏🏻 Yea the pen tool input never really bother me too much (I had some really good keyboard commands set), but how you described it working would be way better.

Lol you're welcome? 😅

I wish 🤦🏼‍♂️

Sorry that you're having to switch. It's frustrating but I don't blame you. What are you using these days?

@@matthewstuartnz Thanks! I end up using Ableton in most of my day to day work. I still find creative flow when writing better in Reason, so will often start something in Reason and then migrate files.

Yea, Ableton has become my main workhorse as well.

If you're not planning on updating again maybe? It definitely is easier to look at in HD and zoomed in a little.

Yea, I've heard of a bunch of people having this issue.

I will give this a go. Thanks! 🙏🏻

👌🏻

Gutted 😭

@@matthewstuartnz the most wierdest rack extention is the New combinator. I get it why they did this, to accomodate the newly users in other daw's. But I don't get it in perspective to the current userbase. In my opinion this release could have been a Reason 11.5 one. I've bought the upgrade to support them, but am I satisfied, no.

Yea Reason 12 feels like a point update.

I know a lot of people have had this issue. I haven't personally tested it in the standalone DAW. Has it been fixed in a patch yet? There is also probably a thread about it on the reasontalk forum that might be able to provide some insight.

@@matthewstuartnz I sent a message to customer support. They claim they are working on a patch to fix the issue and currently it's not fixed however they are aware. Currently I am using the Stand alone. I've also decided to reinstall Reason 11 until the they fix it. I did suggest that they give is the option to enlarge or maximize the windows on our own. For example have the ability to hold shift key click and draw to the size we want of the VST or plugin. (Maybe they should hire me as an engineer so I can tell and show them how to enhance their product making it more competitive in the market because the other DAWs are kicking Reason's butt 😄) Reason is my favorite DAW.

Lol yea, there are a bunch of things that just seem obvious that Reason isn't doing 🤦🏼‍♂️ but yea, like you, I still love it though 😅

@@matthewstuartnz Some day they will get it right. Until then I will continue to perfect my music as best as I can. Thanks for reaching out sir.

Thanks for checking it out! Yea, I love using the Reason Rack VST in Ableton, but I could recommend it to a new user atm without a ton of caveats about the state of the company.

Yea fair enough. While VST support was dope, there was something to be said for the way they set up the software without it.

Oh yea I forgot about punch in 😅 That frustrated me for so long! Pads would be cool but you're right, there's definitely an order of priority here.

Lol thanks for checking it out! 🙏🏻 It's true though.. I love Reason, but I'm also going to call out their crap.

@@matthewstuartnz Same, there's genuine magic and 20 years of glow effect around the product but outside of limited VST rack use, it's a tough sell. They sat on their hands for too long.

Yea.. I hope they do, but honestly I've wondering if they are too far gone to recover from this.

No... you heard 😔

Fair enough. It's a great update if you're coming from 9! Hope you enjoy it!

yea I agree 😅

Yea, I guess it depends on personal preference.