RED DAWN | What Happens When Propaganda Fails 

EDITORS NOTE: AS I EXPLICITLY STATE, I ACTUALLY DO LIKE "RED DAWN" FOR WHAT IT IS. So, maybe you should refrain from posting threats and commenting with blindingly racist tirades as a response to me repeating the directors own words about this being 'propaganda'. Those posts will just get reported and erased immediately, so you're wasting your weirdness on an empty void. Fun fact about this video! When I was editing it, my computer died and I ended up having to remake the entire thing from scratch! So, what movies do you think messed up their messaging to an almost comical degree?

Fun fact, you mention the US invasion of Afghanistan, but not the Soviet invasion, which had only taken place a few years prior to this film.

One funny story about the making of the original movie... two CIA agents were carpooling to work one day, and a flatbed truck with a Soviet tank on it was driving the opposite way to take it to film a scene. The agents freaked out, turned around, and followed them all the way out to the middle of nowhere. They then demanded to know where they managed to get a Soviet tank from, and the props guy let them know it was just an old US WWII tank that they doctored up heavily. The vehicle prop builders were so good it fooled actual CIA agents!

Interesting take, though I don’t think that the movie tells the story you think it does. To me, it’s message is: war is hell and home is worth fighting for. There’s unapologetic patriotism, dumb 80s action, and humanized enemies.

One aspect I always liked about the original Red Dawn was how it managed to add some humanity to both sides. The Wolverines were just kids fighting against a hostile invasion, asked to do the impossible, while among the Soviets we saw them having doubts of their own and having started the war due to a famine crisis back in Russia. It hits on the true tragedy of war which is people killing one another and doing monstrous things, but at the end of the day it is still a person. Its one of the aspects I really liked about World In Conflict: Soviet Assault, when the perspective flipped and you saw from the eyes of the enemy. All these people dying because greedy old men said so.

Cuban general turned out to be one of those most likeable characters in the movie.

Got to love that there's a duality between every anti-war movie ending up loved by jingoists because they are accidentally cool and jingoistic movies ending up loved by the anti-war crowd because they are accidentially critical.

I remember watching this movie in the US Army back in the 1990s and our first sergeant asks what the heck happened did the US Armed Forces go on strike. Interesting how they were able to mass on our borders without detection. We got sent to Kuwait in 1994 because we detected Iraqis massing on the border and thought they might try to invade again.

Us Govt: "It is ok, we have now cracked the propaganda movie formula. It is called the MCU."

I always took Red Dawn as an action movie at face value.

I grew up about 5 miles from The US Naval Academy. I saw the original “Red Dawn” at a 2 screen theater. There was a group of Midshipmen in the back of the theater. Whenever a Russian was killed or blown up, those Middies cheered like The USA had won The Super Bowl.

As a European i think you are way too negative thinking "its just propaganda" considering you see both evil and humanity on both sides, i mean the good guys shoot POWs, Soviets retaliate against civilians, its in fact grizzly realistic, yes the action scenes are typicall 1980s so what, the biggest issue of the movie (and frankly any form of media that gets into the whole "soviets invade the US") is that its very hard to make the initial invasion plausible. Also with the current war in Ukraine an how the Russians behave, the idea of Soviets landing and randomly blasting civilians isnt far fetched at all...

the coolest part of Red Dawn was how Superfly turned himself from New Jack City coke dealer to a Cuban Colonel

I loved the original. It was full of good performances (now seen much later by me as an adult as actually way better than you could have predicted), up and coming actors that were the "it" young adults of the time, and actually had a pretty good story. What it also had was the spine to even make this kind of movie knowing it would be controversial as hell and would be seen a propaganda. The sequel is almost an ironic joke of the original, not just because it was a terrible movie that was even more fantastical than the first's premise, but because they hilariously caved to the Chinese, which is the exact opposite of making a good ol fashioned propaganda movie. It was almost anti-propaganda. It was us basically announcing we are now so soft we cannot even make another country the antagonist without caving immediately to their demands. Yeah Merica! We cave to those chinese! LOL It is an ironic joke.

The first time I'd ever even heard of this movie was when I was stationed in Germany. My company was tired, wet and dirty from taking part in Reforger. We were herded into the base theatre at Reese Kaserne and got to watch Red Dawn. When it was over we were ready to go right back out to the field. I guess the movie achieved its goal. Its a silly movie by today's standard, but from the point of view of soldiers in the military during the cold war, this movie was perfection.

I was like "damn that new Turner and Hooch movie looks weirdly violent", then I was like "... wait, that's probably Red Dawn"

The original Red Dawn wasn't supposed to be a propaganda piece. The producer was adamantly against open hostilities, and specifically chose the youth found in Charlie Sheen and all them, to show the cost of what would happen should such a war come home. And while I'm sure he believed in defending one's people and nation, he wanted to portray that such a war, where we see kids fighting, is the reality of what would happen should such an extreme scenario occur. If it was a propaganda piece, the ending and the very important aspects of storytelling would have seen the protagonists having a very unrealistic victory over the invaders. Propaganda is not designed around showing our glaring flaws, but hyperfocusing on the enemy's. Rocky and other such films do that incrementally. Red Dawn, on the other, just shows the misery of an American Insurgency. One that mirrors the misery of the Soviet Afghan War. Edit: It should also be added that the reason why they ended up fighting was not because of patriotism. It was anger and hate. The two young women fight because they'd already been raped by Russians prior to tagging along (if anyone remembers the comment Matt makes to one of the girls to which they get REALLY angry "What's up your ass?"). One of the young men absolutely hates the Russians when he finds out they killed his Dad (the shop owner at the beginning who gave them some guns, some ammo, food, and equipment to survive outside the occupation zone, in the mountains) for "supporting guerrillas and illegal insurgents". Jed and Matt have reason to fight because their father bids them to do so. He raised them and told them that, if he were in their position, he would do precisely that. He knew he was going to die. And when Matt witnesses his father's death, alongside Arturo's dad, in retaliation for the deaths of a handful of Russians they were happened upon. Arturo has every reason to fight because they killed his father. The one with the most objection, is the one who still has someone to return to, in this case, his own dad, who is the Mayor of Calumet, CO. Which also becomes the flash point in which the team begins to break under the strain of conducting their guerrilla war. They're tired, cold, hungry, bitter, and feel as if its not going to end any time soon. Save the one individual, every person present has a reason to fight, because they have nothing left to lose. I love the film because its poignant in that they use a lot of references to the reality we live in now. The Cubans and Soviet Attache talk about "Hearts and Minds" to which the Soviet Officer tells him that the US used it in Vietnam and lost. To which after that comment, the Soviet-US Cooperation Building blows up. Red Dawn is both a lesson and a thought experiment.

Definitely right to acknowledge just how great Powers Booth is here. For all of the pyrotechnics, his campfire exposition is the certainly film's highlight.

If the director intended for Red Dawn to be propaganda. He kind of failed it. It's really the same as an alien invasion movie only with real people and real guns. Politics really doesn't enter into it and the only reason the attacking force is the Soviet Union is because that was the only nation that could conceivably pull off a full scale invasion of the US at the time the film was made.

I love the original Red Dawn. Unlike other 80s shoot-'em-up flag wavers -- Rambo: First Blood II being an example -- I enjoy rewatching this one. The overall premise of the film is, of course, totally absurd, which makes for great discussions among fans of the movie. Milius is a fantastic writer, and the bulk of the main performances are still poignant. The one-liners make for great memes. I've always thought of it through a quirky lens, though. I think many of its critics at the time missed the point that it gives away a wink early on that the whole project is somewhat of a Milius thought challenge: Could he, like a Classical Era symphonist, make a paint-by-numbers homage to the basic architecture of a propaganda film that would succeed in remaining memorable years later? The wink comes in the film when the boys sneak back into town to gather information. As they cross the main drag downtown, you see down the street the billboard above the town cinema. The theater is screening Alexander Nevsky, which next to Triumph of the Will and Battleship Potemkin ranks as one of the greatest propaganda films ever made. Is Milius letting us in on inside joke? I'll note that some of the scenes often cited by critics as agitprop -- specifically the one where the Soviet soldier pries the pistol from the pickup driver's "cold, dead hands," is one that both my left and right-leaning friends find hilarious. It was clearly meant to be sardonically humorous. As others have noted, the writing generally gives a pretty humanist take on the whole episode. The film does not paint war as a fun, patriotic romp (here's looking at you, Chuck Norris), as you see the heavy psychological toll it takes on all of the main characters. In that regard, its writing and drama fits well with many other classic war films. Milius doesn't set out to answer any philosophical or moral questions of Why War? He simply accepts it as chaos unleashed and then writes a drama about the characters caught within that reality. You could take the basic plot of the Wolverines' story and transplant it to Chechnya, Afghanistan, the Balkan wars, or Ukraine today and it would work just as well -- better even, as they involve an historical setting of partisans fighting against an invading aggressor. I had and still have zero interest in watching the remake, as that is not remotely a movie that could be remade, and most remake attempts are bloody awful, so my sympathy goes out to the reviewer for expending precious time suffering through it.

There was a 2010 Australian version of Red Dawn called "Tomorrow ,When the War Began" which was a far superior movie than the 2012 Red Dawn remake.

'is a comunazi cartoon' to be fair in the movie there are debates among the occupiers about how to act towards the locals. Executions or a more lenient policy. Its certainly a lot more than the remake does.

It's funny how Powers Boothe was casted 5 years later as the famous soviet general Vasily Chuikov in 2 part Stalingrad movie.

I hope the fireman on the boat is okay.

For me, if the art piece can stand out on its own without a political message, it’s more than just propaganda. Casablanca is a well beloved and preserved film by many from how it’s written and shot despite its purpose of being a propaganda film to win hearts and support for war.

In the Film, will always remember the reply to the "Who is on our side." Answer "600 million Chinese". Question "I thought there were 1 Billion". answer "there were".. The true face of war.....

Me thinks that the presenter is puffing up a mere escapist action-adventure cash cow.

I think there's a critical misread of the movie in the middle of this video. You say how, in an attempt to be jingoistic propaganda, it shows just how awful and total a price it this fight would extract from Americans, but the whole point of the film was HEY WEAK LIBERAL LEADERSHIP, DONT LET THIS HAPPEN BY BEING SOFT ON THE COMMIES You can disagree on the logic and the sentiment, but I think Milius delivered his intent straight up by showing just how awful this situation would turn out for our heroic teenage partisans, and where he would lay the blame.

I think for something to be considered propaganda would require state funding or sponsorship. Otherwise anyone voicing any opinion about anything could be considered "propaganda".

The original Red Dawn, either thru misinterpretation or Milius just plain misunderstanding his audience (too much Lithuanian anger?) and mismanaging his own story, became an anti-war, anti-communist, but pro-violence, antigovernment film of absolute genius. It was one of the first PG-13 movies, which should have been a Hard R, so parents misinterpreted how much violence was in this movie and how much was meant for 5 year old kids to see (I saw the film in the theater - when I was 7 - after my uncle dropped me and my 9 year old cousin off at the theater on a Football Sunday. After 2 hours of watching the massed armies of the USSR, Cuba (who had MAYBE 1 effective combat division), Mexico, and Nicaragua murder and pillage their way across the US Rockys for 2 hours, I was ready to fight back and kill some communists, as long as there would be a few girls from the elementary school to do it with. At 7 I thought a war would be something like an all day gym period, followed by sleepovers or camping -turns out the dudes who went to the Mideast said the wars of the 2000s were a lot like that. I guess I really did miss out!

This brought back memories, thank you…

"That dude from Turner and Hooch", excuse me I think you mean Drake and Josh. His magnum opus.

I thoroughly enjoyed Red Dawn, saw it at a drive-in when it came out. Of course this movie was propaganda. The Day After was on network television the year before, we were still deep in the Cold War. I had just graduated high school and full of patriotism pride, having tried but was denied in joining the Army

What is the footage of the boat blowing up with a guy in a hazmat suit ?

'People more upset with backgrounds checks than with murdered children' Daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaamn, you didn't have to do 'em like that lmao.

Red dawn is one of my favorite movies and one of the best action movies ever. There’s this 2 hour video essay by rob ager on yt who sums it up better than I ever will

The concept of Red Dawn would make for an awesome AMC Series.

Josh: Thor? Where's my capitalist propaganda? Thor: Here, I made the government and military incompetent fools who are easily defeated by an impractical invasion. I also made the heroes a comunal group of rebels who hide and use terrorism to take down the invad.... Wait, I see the problem Josh: OH, DO YA????

That paratroop drop went better than Hostomel.

I would like you to please give your take on an Australian film and series entitled Tomorrow When the War Began. Similar premise to Red Dawn, but also makes ine swipe against the US. Namely Australia is invaded by a foreign power and the US don't lift a finger.

Because. We. Live. Here.

>This failed as propaganda actually. *coolest fucking thing you've ever seen in your life*

I remember when I saw this as a kid it scared me but now it's just silly because I know america won't be invaded that easily

The premise is 100% unbelievable. But it's a fun movie.

Powers Booth really was something. Greatly missed.

Man... I haven't played freedom fighters in years... Loved that game. Also I too have been paid in a mix of cash and guns before.

I saw the 2012 remake, not knowing it was a remake. When the North Koreans started landing, I couldn't suspend my disbelief. North Korea has 26 million people. If they emptied their country and left it vacant, such that every man, woman, and child (and infant) was armed and ready to occupy, the U.S. population would still outnumber them more than 10:1. It was completely ludicrous. Learning that it was originally China made a lot more sense in that regard. But it's really funny that such a jingoistic story had to change to sell more tickets overseas.

Love your videos. You have great insights - hope you hang in there and your numbers improve!

Alexander Haig was not Secretary of State when this movie open in 1984. He was only sos from 1981 to 1982.

"Patrick Swayze is magnetic" - that pretty much sums up his entire career, lol!

Red Dawn isn't about them. It's about us. You don't get it.

Interesting video, and got me thinking about how i view the movie. But uh, is that firefighter ok? The one on the boat when you talked about the "set a thing on fire to prove it isnt" segment, he sure didnt look ok after that fireball. Watched that boat bit a couple more times and slowed down, that man is dead. Like super dead. Fuck that's a bad way to go.

The best thing about the remake is that it has better quotes for using against it than the original.

i gotta say that this is probably one of the "smallest" YT channel in my subs, but it produces some of the highest quality content.

Completely forgot they remade Red Dawn. WTF were they thinking?

It keeps me warm.

7:35 okay, so if I was invading the United States, where you have generals from other countries in the past being hesitant to do that “because there is a rifle behind every blade of grass” my soldiers rules of engagement would be “everyone is presumed hostile”

On another note, there was a Wolverines volunteer group fighting in Ukraine (obviously inspired by THIS movie) but we haven’t heard a thing from them since.

Here's a fun fact about the original Red Dawn I know: That epilogue at the monument where you see a monument and a narrator kinda just says they won the war? That was tacked on at the last moment as a result of a direct studio mandate. The original ending was Swayze's character and his brother dying, then fading out after what was left of their squad made it to Free America. This would, least from what Milius has said, make the film leave it ambiguous as to whether or not the wolverines actually had ANY real impact on the conflict whatsoever, leave the resolution to the war up in the air, and heavily imply that all of the characters' deaths were utterly pointless.

Honestly would love to hear your thoughts on more John Milius movies, he's quite a character.

I just watched this for the jab at the Critical Drinker and his hatred of anybody entertaining the ideas that: - People who aren't straight exist in the military, and are good at their jobs while celebrating that part of themselves. - Women can be better at men (including cis, straight, white men) at things. Including physical competition. - Being left of hunting the homeless does not, a communist of one, make. Just because a friend told me of it. And what I got was a very compelling examination of an old childhood favorite movie (required some deconstruction, that), AND the jab. Worth.

Bro, really took a philosophical deep dive into word propaganda movie from the Cold War😂😂

Red dawn is a classic showing us weak men make hard times, hard times create strong men and strong men make good times. I’m a patriot American who was a former leftist walked away from the toxic anti American far left who embraced Marxism and socialism. Go wolverines!

I just remember being very confused as a mexican teenager because I kept mixing up this with Red State by Kevin Smith

I was eleven when I saw Red Dawn in the theater in Florida while visiting family during spring break in 1984. I could not wait to get back to school in Indiana and tell all my friends about it. The film would not come out there for weeks and I felt like I had some amazing secret experience for a while. The propaganda of it hit me perfectly. It's also hard to remember now that during my entire childhood I expected a US-USSR direct conflict with ICMB's passing each other in orbit. I did not think it might happen. I expected it to happen. The Cold War was like that. I passed my schools fallout shelter every time I went out to recess. Red Dawn was a film that showed kids fighting back. It was just what I wanted. I also want to mention that the film starts with a world narrative that gets you to an invasion. That's where the film needed to go, and they did the mental gymnastics to make it happen. The communists in Cambodia, Vietnam and China all also targeted schools and teachers for destruction, so that part of the film doesn't seem so far out for me. Finally, I remember when MGM buckled under to China about the remake in the hopes of getting some of that sweet, sweet market. It was shameful. What they should have done was tell China to stick it and bill themselves as the only studio with the guts to do that. I would have gone out of my way to support them with my butt in the theater seat every time any MGM film came out after that. No to forget mentioning that China's film industry makes at least a few anti-American war pictures every year. My feelings are not hurt. Are yours? The Chinese government is a bunch of whining crybabies.

I can recommend the book Warrior Dreams by James William Gibson. He analyses how a paramilitary culture has taken root in post-Vietnam America.

“That dude from the Turner and Hooch remake” bro that’s fucking Josh literally every American knows him.

Two things i took away from this video. One is i was too young to realize that red dawn was put out as the propaganda film that you say. The other thing is you're right i didn't know there was turnner and hooch remake

You’re the Commie my Mommy warned me about.

It does have some significance as the first film released with the newly minted PG-13 rating from the MPAA

OH HEY!!! I remember when they were marketing that Turner and Hooch remake! I didn't see it though.

Stand-your-ground rhetoric is infinitely preferrable to the alternative, no ?

Youre writing is equisite, the descriptors, analaogies, and vocabulary is always a joy to experience.

where is that Sam Elliot clip from?

17:52 this only reaffirms my belief that red dawn is meant to be a commentary on Vietnam.

Next winter I’m gonna wear outfits from this movie

You know... In a way, Red Dawn is accidentally a more faithful adaptation of War of the Worlds.

My father took me to see this film when it came out. And from time to time I've gone back and watched it. It's brilliant. And I'm not some right winged libertarian type. Although I supposed you'd argue that I've misinterpreted this film all along. I always took it for a condemnation of war, imperialism and a look into how violence destroys people (especially in Rob's character). There is even a scene where our heroes can not satisfactory answer which side is in the right or wrong, or why this war is happening. Yes, it is an unrealistic, cheesy 1980's action flick. But something that made Milus so brilliant was how he able to convey deep meaning in films, despite the veneer of being some stupid action film. Conan the Barbarian is also one of my favorite films, and full of depth, even those most people just see Arnold with a sword.

He was madder than a bag of hammers, but goddamn I wish Milius had made his Conan trilogy. As it stands, we got one great Conan movie. And sundry.

I still quote "I Ain't never heard of it!" way to often

The thing is that USA produced great movie about invasion - 1983's TV miniseries V.

Red Dawn: a movie about what the U.S. has been doing to other countries for over half a century.

15:33 What they’re saying here is true but I’m guessing their trying to make a “Okay the villains have a point” trope

Biggest problem is that this film is structured like a multi season tv series

I loved this movie when it was on the movie channel in the 90s.

I really think this review is tainted by preconceptions towards the American right. It can't be a self confessed "right wing extremist, anarchist, Maoist (!?)" could make an anti war movie that humanizes its antagonists and portrays the protagonists as morally ambiguous. John liked guns and said "right wing" so he must have intended to make an entirely differently movie than the one he made, even if he himself said it was anti-war! A gun loving right-winger would only be capable of producing propaganda and be completely incapable of insights like "war is bad" or "one-dimensional characters are boring" .

My opinion? _Red Dawn_ is my guiltiest of guilty pleasures, no doubt earned because Milius is the masterful writer of other such movies as _Conan the Barbarian_ and _Red October._ And _Big Wednesday._ Hollyweird, right? Ah, it´s great to -stay- be alive!

Great video as always. I wonder how you manage to make a difference at the end between the plot and the political message of the movies, I struggle to enjoy a movie or story that I strongly disagree with.

I'm not exactly sure how much information they had back then compared to now, but if you want to make people hate or be fearful of communism/communists, just make movies about their real life atrocities. A film about the Holodomor would be very timely right now.

if you disregard the problematic message, the original Red Dawn is Oscar worthy compared to the 2012 version.... where the australian interpretation "Tomorrow, When The War Began" is actually quite good...

Irony to put Red Alertr3 with Red Dawn Nice touch

Its wild how mad you made the trailer dwellers.

William Smith's "Colonel Strelnikov" was a small but interesting character.

6:50 The thing that people talking about the Zimmermann Telegram always forget is that this was sent when USA was ALREADY invading México.

I know this is beside the point, but is that guy at 9:34 ok?

Remember dressing as Cassock to Red Dawn singing Boney M Rasputin.

The Brat Pack Goes to War. Very silly idea but it has some merit. I kind of like some of what Millius has done in his career although he sounds like a nut. His ending for Apocalypse Now was that Kurtz and Willard bond fighting off a Viet Cong attack.

So that firefighter at around 10 minutes got sent to space

Best movie ever made.

I had a marxist girlfiend of mine watch "Red Dawn". She actually liked it, precisely for the reasons listed here. I'm very much *not* a marxist.