I just want him to be grateful. Ll for the man that died trying to save them. But as far I as I can see, he doesn't care. As much as Abigail does, they both don't care
@Gregory Smith He grew up alone. Children need to socialize with other children for their psychological development. It's exactly why he has such an awkward antisocial personality as a young man. He grew up around a bunch of killers out in the wild, moving from place to place. He was in the cabin when it got shot up by the pinkertons(extremely traumatizing for a child), he was with them when they had to run from the law through that snow storm. I can go on. It's easy to glorify the lifestyle, but you cannot deny the effects it has had on him growing up. John reassures his son multiple times that he's not gonna die anytime soon, something most fathers don't really have to tell their sons
Imexio They both grew as characters. By the end, all they cared about was Jack being safe and when Bronte kidnapped him, they changed and improved as parents as they realised what they had to lose
Gotta think they were living rough, as vagabonds. It's one thing to have a home, but to be traveling a lot and no sense of home...that would be tough...
Imexio: what the hells so “shocking” about them as parents.. aside from them as characters i.e. outlaws; their fuckin human beings parents aren’t perfect; and children are fucking AWFUL...
It's amazing how these characters grow throughout this game. John and Abigail went from people who probably shouldn't have had kids, to exemplifying what being a parent is. Protecting your kid, and trying to help them, as well as each other, grow towards a better future.
Then Jack ends up being the opposite of what they wanted after they die. It’s pretty sad if you think about it. Atleast he avenged John, where he goes after that is anyone’s guess, but I hope he put away the gunslinger life.
@@ShoopJaWhoop There's an easter egg in GTA that shows he ended up becoming a book writer like he always wanted. There's a book written by a J. Marston somewhere, and since we know only Jack survived, it makes sense.
Abigail was prostitute before coming a mother and John disappear from the gang for a year thinking jack wasn't his son. Jack getting kidnap and seeing the downfall of the gang changed them to being real parents.
I'd rather John be with Karen or any of the girls than with Abigail. This bitch has pissed me off from RDR 1 to RDR2 and never satisfied no matter what John does.
Well Abigail and John turned better overtime thanks to their own experiences and friends, if Abigail and John left the camp without any hassle at all Jack would probably be abandoned.
Bad parents?!...Err, it was the 19th century, duh! That said the Marston’s parenting style was very tolerant and accepting, unlike typical upbringings from that period. Jack was never seen to of been physically punished or was it ever implied. So yeah, for that period, a lot of children would of loved parents like John And Abigail.
Is this really a thing that needs to be discussed? They're raising their child in a gang. A literal band of outlaws gang. But on a side note they did shape up in the end I suppose
The whole moral is just because they Started there doesn't mean they are gonna finish there . John switch sides got caught up in the FBI and paid for his part in the outlaw lifestyle, I assume that Abigail died of a diease or her lifestyle caught up with her Some kind of fatal STD like al capone Uncle died in a shoot out Jack is left ambiguous but became the Very thing his parents didn't want him To become.
daniel spell It’s a good theory. But I doubt it was an STD, as John would of probably contracted it as well (They had a daughter who died early own between RDR2 and RDR1) . Other than that, Abigail was perfectly healthy and probably younger than 50 or even 40 around her death. My belief is she probably just died of loneliness or sadness after John’s death, (it’s an actual cause of death for some people). Jack did become a gunslinger, but he did eventually become a writer (Wrote a book called “Red Dead” it’s an Easter egg in GTA V).
I wonder if Arthur losing Isaac was why he was so much of a parent to Jack. Losing a child will make you more of a parent, which is why John and Abigail improved so much after they almost lost Jack. I spesk from personal experience on that, I lost someone I raised from when I was young myself.
At least Jack's uncle is Arthur so he does have some fun In a mission in chapter 2 Abigal tells Arthur to take Jack and do something with him so Arthur took Jack to go fishing and he learned Jack fishing
To be honest, I hate how Abigail was so whiny in the Epilogue. Arthur literally sacrificed everything he had for them and the first she does when it comes to avenging him is to refuse it like a coward.
Like arthur said: "revenge is a fools game". Take a look what revenge brought to john, it led ross straight to him. If john would've put down his weapons and left micah alone he might have kept on living a normal life. Then again, thats not how marston was. Anyways, abigail was right in the end
@@anttitheinternetguy3213 They would of found him either way. He lives in black water, the ranch is in his name, he still had a price on his head. In the end, nothing gets forgotten. No one would let him live a normal life after what he did. As a person he may of changed for the better, but that doesn't take back the lives he took or the laws he broke.
John legitimately was a bad father to Jack in the beginning. He didn’t pay attention to the boy and left him for about a year. Not until Jack’s kidnapped by Bronte does he care. Abigail, on the other hand, loves Jack with all her heart; she’s just new and hates the situation she’s in.
People also forget that she was only 18 years old when she had Jack. Notice that she never says anything bad about Jack when he is around, only when he’s gone because she doesn’t want to hurt his feelings. There is a tumblr post that talks more about this.
I think John is a great father. There's plenty of moments throughout the game (especially when Jack is older) with John making a genuine effort to connect with his son... and that's honestly enough to call any father a decent parent at least. I'd rather have a father who's hard on me because he loves me than a father who doesn't care
yea but no point trying to bond with your child when he older as it not work will still remember all the crap as a child so trying when he older did not work. plus he was hard on jack as he did not think he was his as Abigail was a bit of a slag in the gang before she had jack that is why john left the gang for a while. so john will have that in back of his mind all the time.
@@theprodigalson4003 to be 100, im not sure the gang pimped her out, but everyone was expected to contribute and thats how she made money. But my point is she only not working cuz she got a kid to watch
I mean they were shitty parents to good parents at the end reason I say that is that despite their traits and how they were raise they still try to do a honest living
Jack had a very interesting life. Born to parents that never wanted to have him, raised by a gang of outlaws with parents that didn't want to raise him who then start to care for him and eventually try their damndest to build a better life for him, gets kidnapped by the government, sees his father brutally murdered and mother dies soon after, gets involved in the life his parents did their best in the end to keep him out of, and finally avenges his fathers murder.
They are good parents. At first John didn't want to have jack as his son. After Arthur told him to take care of his family John became a great parents. Jack even grew up to be good man.
This makes the events of rdr 1 more tragic from jack possibly not being jonhs actual biological son or the fact he becomes the one thing that would break Jonh and Abigail's heart an outlaw.
@@WisteriaNerium well there were multiple hints that jack isn't jonhs son such as in one instance were arthur wished he married Abigail in his journal and then there's the conversation between the both of them hinting that arthur is jack's biological father
I love how little Jack sometimes shows the perslnality traits that defines him when he's older. That "guess it never is" is the exactaly the sassyness that he has in Red Dead 1
Tbh even after the fallout of Dutch's gang, they did kind of isolate Jack for most of his life. Seriously Im sure his only friends growing up was a drunk and a dog.
Being parents is hard, we just do the best we can at all times. Especially back then in that life, damn near impossible to raise a child that wasn't traumatized.
Hosea and Arthur both knew just how hard it was to actually have a woman who loves you in the life they lead. John was so lucky, to have a woman as wonderful as Abigail, who loved him unconditionally. In their life that sort of thing was rare. John was the luckiest member of the Van Der Linde gang by far.
Abigail is alright. Every mother does that. Every parent talk shit about their kids. But John (up until the first game) is an absent parent. Was never there and Jack have to learn everything himself.
Jack could have had a much better life with Bronte since he could actually provide for him and even Jack admitted that he was never mistreated, he was even getting treated like a king. He could've had a life full of luxury, but John and Abigail were too greedy and dragged him back to a life that consisted in running away from the law again and again.
Unlimited Turtle The difference here is that I am not an outlaw who kills for a living unlike John. What is the difference here between John and Bronte? That Bronte doesn't have to kill others face to face? That he has enough money to bring food to the table? That he can give Jack a much better life than John could? We all saw how John ended and the effects it took on Jack by turning him into an outlaw too and essentially cursing his life to get hunted by the government for killing a retired police chief.
Glad John and Abigail both grew up and tried to give Jack a normal life. Poor Jack, people like to hate on him because of "WORK YOU DAMN NAG" but he's had a rough life. I hope we get to see him again in the future RDR. I need closure, and no an Easter egg in GTAV don't cut it.
Keep in mind: Abigail had Jack when she was 18 years old while running with an entire gang of outlaws, that is NOT a good recipe for good parenting PLUS: All of these scenes are from early game, and John actually steps up towards the later chapters, especially in his various camp interactions
First clip. Jack tries to get John to play with him, John being Hector and Jack being Achilles or however you spell it. John says that it isn’t a good time. I WISH I COULD MAKE JACK HAPPY IN THAT TIME OF GRIEF AND SADNESS
I did a bit of research and when Jack was born, John was around 21 years old while Abigail was around 18. Add in the fact that both of their parents were either dead or not good examples themselves and the fact that both of them are technically outlaws. Well I say that they did alright and that is good enough.
So this might sound far fetched but here's my analogy. In the epilogue if rd1, jack wears clothes that almost resemble Arthur's. It's kinda sad considering that arthur have been more of a father figure than john, I might be wrong so feel free to call me a idiot.
pablo l tbh John is more of a father than Arthur. Started a new life just for his family and tried his best to raise his son and stray him away from the path of an outlaw. Jack having a similar jacket to Arthur is probably just a coincidence but that’s just my opinion
This game deserves so many awards. Speaking of awards, there should be awards for games that are complete and work on release. May inspire more companies to release masterpieces like this one.
Honestly its in the old days, they are on the run and they aren't abusing him, they are doing pretty good if you ask me. P.s. Jack being kidnapped was the best thing that happened to them (next to Arthur sacrificing himself) cause after they get him back you see john playing with jack and its like they realized how much they really care about him especially John
I actually thought it made sense in John's case because he even says in one mission he hasn't been a good father to Jack because he had suspension jack wasn't his son
I still don't know what is the matter with John. Why did he disappear for a year? Is he depressed or feeling stuck in a rut? Why is he so sombre and down in this game?
From what I got he just dosen't want to be a father to Jack. The thought of it proably drove him away. Abigail is constantly at him because of Jack so it proably leads to him acting like this.
I think it's because Abigail was somewhat of a hwhore and didn't want to except the fact that Jack was his son. Which explains why he tried so hard to become a rancher and teach his son NOT to make the mistakes he made. After finishing RDR2, it makes the ending to the first redemption so much more depressing seeing Jack turn into his father. RDR2 is not a perfect game but the stories is what makes this game a masterpiece in my opinion
Well he had a kid with a whore that he couldn't confirm was his out of stress he ran away came back and had the same woman breathing down his neck stressing him out more but at the same time johns a idiot and Abigail likes to complain so it's not a good mix
They are better parents than most are these days... Especially after they get their ranch.. Abigail reminds me of my own mother actually... Love to nag... but it all comes from a loving place...
I honestly think Javier is Jack's Biological father. Adult Jack in RDR1 kinda looks like Javier. And Cesar from GTA III looks much like Jack. Jack even looks Mexican.
@@ravedubin3983 It was mentioned by Van Der Linde in RDR1 that Abigail used to be a prostitute and Might have Been Gang Banged by the Van Der Lindes. Implying that every man in the gang, including Arthur, might have fucked Abigail. It's possible that one night in 1895 Javier got it on with her and impregnated her without John's knowledge before it was his turn to Fuck. That's why John doubted that Jack is even his.
I find it so interesting that John left for a whole year and came back... But wasn't a model father when he did. I assume he ran away out of fear, he constantly stresses in the early camp encounters that he "doesn't know nothing about fatherhood" but even admits to abigail (before Jack is taken) that he knows he's being real shitty to them. I would LOVE a DLC on the year John was away, what made him run off (my theory being Jack calling him papa, since kids learn to associate words to things around the first year, and since John didn't actively attempt to get him to learn it'd make sense he said it closer to 12months than 8m of age), and what exactly made him come back... He obviously isn't ready to be a good father, but he also can't leave them either. He and Abigail and Jack... They both are a family but also kinda not. It's so fun to watch, to see Jack grow into the anxious awkward boy he is (who could blame him? I love that he was actually triggered in the epilogue, and I dont mean it in a joking kinda way), to see how much John and Abigail love each other despite all their issues, and especially to see John through the epilogue and Red Dead 1 so so into the idea of being a good Pa for Jack even if he has no idea of what to do.
same i hated him in RD1 to but think of what he had to go through with both parents not wanting you and john think he not his will mess with a kids head
@@giggity4670 yeah true I agree. I think they needed to make his character that way to show how much the death of his mother and father effected him and turned him into what we see at the end of rdr 1, we see him turn from child to teen to a full grown adult
@@Lari_A lmao idk it's just when he was however age in the the main part of the game he was way more open and adventurous and you see that in the misson where your fishing with him as arthur. Then in the epilogue he's so whiny and all he wanted to do was stay inside and read, and I get that jack was like 4 in the beginning of the game so of course he's gonna change as he gets older but still. He does get a little better in rdr 1
@@Gmoney-us9pi it's because he became anti-social due to his disfunctional parents. His mother was always pissed off, and his father was a killer. By the epilogue he felt like he barely knew them, so he distanced himself from them and probably found books to be his only escape from reality.
@@frankschimmenti3490 i too late have three kids. It's a no brainer to me. When my first child was born i stopped all the bad shit i was doin. Best thing ever.
@@frankschimmenti3490 johns relationship with dutch was like me and my dad, mother died when we were young. So was just us boys. there was always a plan, and always a scheme, i had to pull back from him in the end, for my kids, he actually lost said it like dutch. The story of the gang and dutch reminds me of me and my bros with my dad, have 5 younger bros, Obviously we didnt rob bamks or hold up ppl, but we were outlaws in a sense. But none of it was good. But it was a laugh while ot lasted, I feel for john in this story. He is torn, between whats right, and whats always been right. But love arthur. Damm rockstar, it really did sadden me. But john did the right thing in the end. And times were different then. We have it easy now. Sort of,
