I was super into history as a kid. I had just gotten a new book about the native tribes of North America and was excitedly telling my parents about the land bridge and how people came from what is now Russia to get to this continent. There was a long silence before they told me, "but you know that isn't true. The book of mormon tells us about nephi and the Israelites crossing the sea in their boats" and that gave me such a huge jolt of cognitive dissonance that it kinda woke me up.
I had something very similar happen when I was a kid. I started reading a book on Australian history and started telling my parents how Indigenous Australian people have been living in Australia 50,000 years and before that arrived in boats from Indonesia. My parents said that was wrong because humans are only 6,000 years old.
Yikes, to all those stories. Thankfully I grew up in a semi religious household. I read all the children's Bible books that I could get and then I started asking questions that made me not believe anything I was reading.
@@1MarkKeller I was lucky that my parents were very indifferent catholics. I only got baptized because it was the traditional thing to do and even though we went to church on Sundays and I worked as an acolyte until I turned 14, we weren't too much into the whole Bible stuff. For us, the Bible was just a collection of ancient stories with some good morals that teach us to forgive each other and love and respect others (yeah we totally ignored the old Testament because the stories were awful and nothing for kids).
My grandmother got to teach a semester at Brigham Young many years ago. No one in my family is Mormon, but when she was told that coffee was forbidden, she was willing to walk out on the spot. The elders have to give her special dispensation for her coffee. SMH
Mollie Thomas They have removed that ban. www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/sep/21/brigham-young-ends-60-year-ban-on-sale-of-caffeinated-drinks-on-campus
One red flag is constant condescension, and making people, especially children feel like they will never be good enough. Totally not speaking from experience 😅
That's like every denomination. I think part of the Catholic apostles' creed talks about the total depravity of man. Coming out of the Baptists I can attest that they tell you that "All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of god."
That's pretty bad. I actually coped that from my secular family, so arriving at my church and finding people saying I am good enough because they care and God loves me was probably the most soothing and healing words someone has ever said. And of course I took the God loves me bit with salt until I began to see things happen that just couldn't explain away.
In church we were told "the natural man is an enemy of God". To a kid what is that even suppose to mean? Now I know they were referring to masterbation and human carnal nature but they never told us that. We weren't supposed to know about any of that stuff until our wedding night so we could "consummate our marriage" whatever that means. Also my dad used to tell us that boys and girls couldn't be alone together late at night because then they'll do "stuff together" and that the boy wouldn't be able to control himself. In case you're wondering, yes he blamed me for being assaulted by my older cousin saying that "tempted him to do it" which is putting all the responsibility on the girl and none on the guy. The Mormon church is messed up. 😳
On a similar note: that I was to be kind and generous...but only to other members and potential members, because outsiders would take advantage of me and the church is safe, and more people need to be safe from outside abuse. All of my most reliable friends were either staunch atheists or soft pagans, and only one member (who I suspect may have left the church by now) was truly nice to be nice and not to maintain membership.
The big red flag that got me out of the church was the self contradiction and ad hoc excuses. My mom was a great mom, but she made the "mistake" of fostering a fascination in science and technology in her kids. Figured out at about 13 that all the core tenets of Mormonism were cardboard when held up to the hammer of science.
"100% chance of dying if you drink coffee or tea." Okay, uh, lemme just grab all my coffee, matcha tea, and florida orange blossom green tea and just... Uh... Chug it. Chug it *_ALL_*
I woke up from Religion at the around the beginning of 7th grade in Middle school when my science teacher (My favorite teacher to this day) introduced himself as an atheist when a classmate asked if he believed in God, then proceeded to blow our minds with one simple answer. A female classmate asked "If God doesn't exist, then who made you!?" His response " Why my two loving parents of course 😁" with that answer the whole class stayed silent for literally around 30 seconds cause nobody could deny the obvious fact. Looking back on it now, it was thanks to that small bit of doubt that lead me to be who I am now, thanks a bunch Mr. Tucker 👍 Best Teach Of All Time
A red flag I did not miss was the Idea that only Christians can be moral. I argued about this a lot and rarely had people take my side that you can be good with or without religion.
Red flags: *My mom had Christian programs playing basically 24/7, and several of the preachers literally said that God intended/commanded for parents to brainwash their children for christ. *the bible was to be taken literally about some things (like putting homosexuals to death or it being a sin to dress in clothing meant for the opposite gender) and as misinformed guidelines in other areas (like making your daughter marry her rapist, or it being an abomination to wear clothing of mixed fabrics). *All forms of sexuality are closely controlled, yet Song of Solomon is in the bible (though it was always explained to me that it's meant as a representation of our relationship with God, though I think that's even creepier cuz God is supposed to be like a father, and I don't want to think about my dad telling me that my boobs are as pretty as baby goats).
What if the "prophet" told the church to kill someone or to participate in some horrible crime. Following orders blindly is a huge sign of someone being in a cult and a cult like mentality.
I remember my dad saying if the prophet commanded us to leave all our things behind and move somewhere he would do it. The fact that our family could possibly just leave our house and just flock somewhere Mormon pioneer style was crazy to me as a kid.
The first red flag that made me debate religion when I was young was when a priest said during the Homily (Catholic) that animals can't go to heaven I was pissed.
I heard that for the first time in a more chill version of a Pentecostal church. He said they didn't have souls, thoughts, and personalities. I got so mad because, even at a very young age, I noticed that all my cats and dogs all had distinct personalities.
Growing up JW red flag 1. Women submit yourself to your husband. 2. The bible does not say anything about dinosaurs but our planet deffiently says they existed.
@@jbird4478 jeessss the last thing you need is someone like that in a place like Holland! Can that type of Xtianity even work withing a pretty free country like yours? (or anywhere, if we're full about it lol) That's alarming, though not one bit surprising. That bit of info is kept more shhhh. As for many, esp if known what that infers for policy (where TF is this state and church keep they business well apart, even if a politicians faith is that, its not your job). How's the scene and climate over there atm? This one isn't taking any traction is she?
Former SDA member here-consider them a watered down version of Mormons in terms of how they behave/act towards certain situations especially when you disappear from the church-the members are nice and you can see they do this with good intent but trying to leave at times will be difficult as you may end up having the entire church and their grandparents visit you to ask what's up.
I happen to live down the road from the Seven Day Adentists in my town. Tiny church. They mostly keep to themselves except at Christmas when they invite everyone on the street to their Christmas Day lunch, about 5 minutes before local charity and not-for-profit the Lion's Club turn up to do the same for their secular lunch
@EsperFN I grew up baptist but can kinda explain. It's like if you grew up knowing that x was the truth and no other thing was true. Then you talk to someone who believes in y and you're just thinking: how can someone believe in y when there is only x? Eventually you start thinking y is true and not x. After a while that sends you spiralling into, if y was true then what about z? Or a? B, c, d? You start to rework your early years knowledge to figure out what is actually true and what was just manipulative and false. And for religion, replace x, y, z with things like God, Jesus, Homosexuality, sin, etc. And for most religions, those things become the core of your being. Being told everything at the core of your being is a lie is very scary and shattering to some and that's why. Hope this helped
@EsperFN it happened to me a lot when I figured out I was a lesbian. Not immediately but slowly. It's hard to be around people who you've known for years try to "fix" you when you know that you're you and there's nothing wrong with it. I used to be a homophobe and a transphobe but after that and having friends who were LGBT, I've learned a lot. Then I thought, well if that was wrong then what else was I taught growing up was wrong? To be honest, still trying to figure that part out and probably will continue to do so for the rest if my life
In the 70's i was talked into attending a Roman Catholic service in of all places Illinois. It was like stepping back 600 yrs. I had to step outside before i completly lost it and broke out laughing right there. My first thought was : Damn, these people are just plain nuts. The desperation in their eyes was very disconcerning, but the priests in dress up was hilarious.
So if I had a wife, but hid from her and didn’t even give her any reason to think I exist, ( don’t know how that marriage would have started, but it’s hypothetical) and there were thousands of other guys doing the exact same thing, and she has sex with some other dude, she can burn forever? Is this the relationship I have with your god?
Was already questioning, but fully left the church at 16 when my step-mom said "go to church or go to hell". Thought that was a v manipulative statement so I said no
I was raised Evangelical. One red flag that I can't believe didn't bother me sooner were the specific gender roles. It was, however, one of the main reasons I eventually questioned everything. Maybe it was because I wasn't raised with such extreme roles as some churches. For instance, it was fine for wives to have careers, and even be the main breadwinners, but it was preferred for it to be the men. Women could teach Sunday school and lead Bible studies, but not be pastors or elders. I heard compelling arguments that said verses about wives submitting and husbands loving should be read more as "couples should have mutual respect for each other," than "husbands have power over wives." A Bible study on I Timothy changed everything for me. I tried to argue that verses like "women should remain silent in the church" and "the woman is saved through childbirth" should be looked at in their cultural context and might not have the same meaning today (the typical acrobatics people go through to justify the awful things the Bible says). But my friends, whose theological views I had previously respected highly, wouldn't listen. Instead, they showed me commentaries they had googled on their phones and videos of old white men telling me I was wrong. That it's the woman's fault there is sin and therefore, she should not be in positions of authority and needs to redeem herself by giving birth to man-babies. I drove home that night and said, "Fuck it, I'm a feminist and I'm never respecting those people again." It took me several years after that to abandon my faith entirely, but that's what got the ball rolling
i just chucked Paul out of the cannon, and the rest of the bible makes more sense, now. but i am not popular with other christians, who dont understand when they counteract what Jesus said, with Paul, that there is something logically wrong, here.
One thing I heard quite a bit in my short time in the church is “doubt your doubts before you doubt your faith.” Also I still drank fruit and herbal tea (I was told that was okay).
I feel so stupid, but my mother was excommunicated when I was about 10 for getting pregnant unmarried to a non Jehovah's witness.. yeah, that's the full whammy. But she was still a believer, and so was I. So I still went to meeting for a while, but eventually I stopped going. I'm not sure how that took place as it was so long ago, it was definitely by the time I was 12 or so. But I still fervently believed in it, when I was in my 20s as an out lesbian I was still standing up for Jehovah and his witnesses any time they were called a cult, I hated it. I couldn't follow his word, but I believed it. It wasn't until a few short months ago that it finally happened, I was watching something and then the next video that played was telltale, and the fear response when he started talking omg, but instead of turning it off I still listened.. I'm not sure why because everything pushed me to turn it off. So here I am arguing telepathically with all the points he made, but once I had that moment every other moment started falling into place. While I believed it and followed it I realised I'd questioned it so much in my life, what happened to those questions? Were they blocked out? Did I forget them? I have no idea. But yeah, I'm 26 now and I feel so dumb. I still have these moments while listening to telltale and Mr. Atheist where my brain goes back to that setting for a moment, it makes the videos hard sometimes but I'm so glad I found them.
I had my own run-in with a cult that set off a bunch of red flags. Last summer, I converted to Christianity. This is after years of being a skeptic, anti-religion agnostic-turned-deist. I was going through some difficult times and I turned to Christianity as a sort-of crutch. Although I considered myself a non-denominational Christian. Anyway, I was a Freshman in a 4-year college at the time, and I saw this club table set up in the quad of my school, and it had piqued my interest. I went up to one of them and they gave me a shtick about how this "divine mother" is "preparing a wedding feast for the Christ." That told me that they were a Christian organization, although I thought the whole "divine mother" thing was a little cooky at the time. I scheduled a Bible study for the next week, and I was kind of caught off-guard by what happened. It turns out it wasn't so much a Bible study as it was a not-so-subtle recruitment drive for their church. The "Church of God," they called it. They claimed to be part of a global movement, but when I looked up their specific church name there was nothing online about them (first major red flag: no internet presence at all). During the session, the recruiter talked ad nauseam about how Christian are going to hell because they fail to keep the lord's true Sabbath, which is supposed to be on Saturday. These people must've been obsessed with hell. Celebrate Easter? Hell! Don't get baptized? Hell! Don't go to church on Saturdays? Hell! They literally said that Easter was a satanic ploy by the evil Catholic Church to make people go to hell. They said other things like all Catholics are demon-worshipping atheists (quite the oxymoron, but ok), and that if your pastor doesn't tell you to go to Church on Saturday, they secretly hate you, and want you to go to hell. This didn't really sit right with me, but I kind of sat silent and let them give their "lesson," because I noticed that whenever I started to suggest otherwise, they would immediately backtrack and say, "this is the word of God, and if you disagree, you're listening to the word of man." I (foolishly) scheduled one more session with them, and that (thankfully) the last. We did like half a Bible study, and then the recruiter started spouting more bizarre and hateful rhetoric to me, saying that it was the word of God. I gathered enough courage to speak up and say something in disagreement, telling him that I talked to my pastor (at the time), and he warned me against "legalist" Christians. The recruiter got all offended and started repeating the "Bible is laws! The Bible is laws!" He was interrupting me when I was telling him what I was thinking. I then mentioned that it felt like his organization was a cult, and it didn't sit right with me. He then said, "thank you so much for calling us a cult, because Christ's first church was a cult." He had the most unsettling look and laugh I had ever seen, and I started to leave. As I went out the door, I paused for a moment, and looked at the reflection in the window besides the door, and he was just starring at me, with a hint of anger. Later, as I was walking out of the building, I got a text from the guy that said "I think [Saga] is a spy." THAT WAS THE LAST STRAW! He then texted back and told me that that text wasn't for me. I then blocked him and never looked back. I am no longer a Christian, although this was not the reason why. I am still spiritual and certainly not an atheist, but this whole experience was part of the reason why I was so opposed to religion when I was younger. I am so thankful that I got out when I did, because he had invited me to come to a service on the last day. That's my run-in with a cult, hopefully my last. - Saga
Holy shit... Hey OP was this "divine mother" a South Korean woman who organized a church in the 1950s/1960s with her now deceased husband? Also I really really hope they never baptized you or got your address.
@@ACSisterhood No, this was some runt-of-the-mill cult in America, led by some old guy. Thankfully they didn't get my address, but they got my phone number. I've never had any issues with them since.
Our big red flag was the abusiveness that went on behind closed doors. If there was someone visiting, it was bright and cheery, god loves you. If there wasn't, it was glares and whispers and pointed 'lessons' about fire and damnation at the kids that they saw as somehow less godly.
My story about a few major red flags I missed as a Mormon: A close friend of mine was suicidal. He attempted suicide, failed, and eventually told his mother and I what had happened. He also revealed that he had suffered ongoing sexual abuse as a very young child. None of us suggested he might need therapy. His mother and I both assumed that priesthood blessings, the atonement, and him strengthening his testimony would be enough to deal with it. Meanwhile, he recommitted to reading the Book of Mormon and learning more about the gospel. When his next suicide attempt was successful, about eight of us mobilized in an attempt to raise him from the dead with priesthood power. As you might anticipate, it didn't work. None of this made even the smallest dent in my testimony. Now I look back and see a bunch of dangerously crazy people slowly killing my friend with our faith. He needed real help, and we offered him cult rituals and shaming (cuz of course masturbation and occasional pot use were the real problems here). Edited because grammering is hard.
Probably not a sign of a cult. But after growing up Catholic, I still can't believe I bought the whole "consuming the body and blood of Christ " thing.
The atheist and apostate of religion from the University of California proves "scientific and empirical" that there is a Creator (in the following link) ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-X3sSl7A8jqA.html
Over 10 years ago, When I was deciding on my career path into college I wanted to go into Animation. When discussing this with my High school counselor, they suggested "BYU has a great animation study" - they may be so, but I responded with " I'm not looking to go to BYU" my HS counselor asked "Why is that? " I stated that I am no longer an active member of the LDS church, ( for 3 years at that time), and as far as I understood, in order to even being able to get a possibility into BYU you had to get a letter of recommendation from your local Bishop. ( along with scoring well in acceptance ACT tests) My HS counselor confirmed that it was 'highly recommended' I said " no thank you, I rather try out of the state" and the Counselor didn't directly say but I do remember that conversation ended with them hinting that - well if you go back to the Church for a year or two, it's an easy way into BYU, then forget about it after you get a degree, or try a different major. I still am sour about this.
M. Atheist nice cover, i did have a red flag from JW during a study ( me and my mom did go sometimes to meetings and we did some study, but that ended), i got many, two got my attention. 1. My friends, i told them i like metal and most of my close friends like and some have a band, the look on faces was priceles, WJ guy tried to talk me out and i was but they are really good pll you cant lable a group of persons by the looks. 2. The ideia about God then men then woman. I think a man and a woman must have a balaced and active role in the house and everyday tasks, the study on that day was intense.
My uncle is a pastor and during one of his sermons, he said no amount of good we do would atone for our sins. Essentially good people who don't fear God won't get into heaven simply because we're good. That was my breaking point. I am a reformed Baptist and while I love gospel music because it's simply beautiful, I have become a Wiccan because above all things, the rule is to do no harm unto others.
@@BloodInTheStrawberries I'm not a Christian anymore, although you can adopt wicca along with your current religion. You wouldn't necessarily have to give up one for the other.
@@BloodInTheStrawberries Oh lol, no I just like singing. I never thought to implement that aspect into Wicca. I'm very new to the concept, I haven't found a coven yet. I've just been reading books and learning about the different god/desses and things of that nature.
Hoo boy here we go... some of my red flags were: 1.) "If you leave... Horror stories" .. I was taught gods protection would no longer be around you and not only will you die or have harm come to you but you'll lose whatever you left for (story of a man leaving because he wanted to be with his "worldly girlfriend" and then he got cancer and she dumped him is an example of one I heard) 2.) Inherent supremacy by virtue of birth ... Men were inherently meant to lead and make choices and women were meant to be submissive and subservient because god (as translated by the men in leadership) said so. 3.) "Of course you have free will but..." Freedom was always conditional. We were free to dress as we wished and listen to any type of music we liked ... In theory. If we chose that though we were letting Satan into our lives and might risk being "left behind" when Jesus came back which reminds me of.. 4.) "The end is near..." Man knows not when Jesus will return but rest assured it will be soon so don't step out of line OR ELSE also don't stop proselytising of you'll have to watch your friends be tortured for eternity. Every "idle word" will have you held to account. 5.) " We are the chosen/saved ones ...kinda" because of what we believe and who we worship all of the torturous pain will not happen to us because we are superior ...unless we make a mistake ANY mistake and everything is a mistake 6.) You're NEVER good enough.... until we own everything you have and all that you are and even then are you sure you can't give or do a little more? 7.) Mental health schmental health...all this fear and self loathing might be screwing with your mental health so please see a mental health professi....ahahahahaha just kidding you're sad because you're sinning . Pray more! 8.) What is love ? (Baby please hurt me some more) LOVE is guilt, fear, and having the dreadful feeling that there is something deeply fundamentally broken in you confirmed by those who claim to care for you. Remember those who unconditionally accept you don't love you, Those who think you deserve hell or at least a slap every now and then do. 9.) Don't cheat on Jesus... Never "love" anyone as much as you love Jesus or he will harm them or steal then from you because god is jealous 10.)lean not on your own understanding... Don't try to understand any of this we will tell you what to think ...lean on OUR understanding. Especially our understanding of what words mean because they mean something very different to us.
That's almost my same experience with NIFB. -My red flag was having to be voted into the church. -Encouragement of spousal rape -Encouragement of abusing my baby to discipline him. "Train up a child in the way he should go...) My son was 9mos old -not being allowed to talk in church because it's not biblical. - forced to keep hair long (women only) - being told my family didn't understand because they're going to hell.
Honestly, I wasn't in a cult, but when I tried reading the Bible as an adult I was amazed at how I found some of these stories inspiring. Every time I read the story of Sara and Abraham I would have to take a break and wonder what kind of asshole punishes people for not respecting God's chosen when the punishment was based on facts the people didn't even know about (in this case Sarah was Abraham's wife and the fact they took her as their own)... Or how I never questioned why God made people a certain way, punished them for that way, and then was like "oops, my bad, sorry for making what I want too much, here's my son to take away your misery" - again - asshole move.
My mother is a Christian. I used to be an athiest. So to prove her arguments invalid with her own book, I too felt the stories inspring & encouraging. And well, Im now a Christian and dont get along w my mom lol
When i was in the church (still a christian but not going to church annymore) i told one of the leaders that i didnt belive in hell. She then looked at me and smiled she looked me deep in my eyes and said "oh, you are very wrong. Hell does exist and if you dont stop thinking like that you will end up in it". I didnt see it at the time but that was a very huge red flag
My mom taking me to some super conservative farmhouse to live with a huge family (and be homeschooled Christian style) with their kids I’d never met before.. for months 👀 (I still have no idea what that was about) 😂 The first red flag I caught really was a combination of a lot of things -the church urging my super devout schizophrenic family member not to take medicine, that god would fix them and that obviously not happening -the constant black/white, always/never, good/bad attitude. Even at a young age I could tell that life wasn’t as simple as that.
I would also say, a red flag is the arrogance they breed into you. When they tell you that you're better than most because you know and accept the "truth". I still occasionally fall back into that if I'm not careful.
Thank you, Mr. Atheist. As an ex-Mormon myself, left a little sooner from what I'm guessing you did (20-21 when I seriously questioned the religion and stopped going. They probably just consider me inactive), my father and mother were apart of the governing body. Though I guess the biggest reason that made me susceptible that the religion was BS because I was the loner and was heavily into Anime, Games, Music, etc. That and also had a fetish that started when I was 10 or so, having the feeling the religion was wrong as I never felt guilty for having one. I'm glad that you, Telltale and Mr. Atheist are helping others wake up to the lies that they wish to control the masses with. Even though they do teach some good messages and thankful that I learned them, but I'm hoping the masses realize the truths soon so we can help each other in making the world a better place
A huge red flag for me was when I was around 14ish and was pretty comfortable with the label bi, but kept it to my close friends-except my best friend S, because she and I went to church together (LDS). While S was at girls camp (I had gone the year previous but couldn't/didn't want to go this year) I told her over the phone that I was bi, and she reacted alright. One day later and my mom knocks on my door and asks to talk to me-she asks why I would tell S something like that. I'm really confused and ask how she heard about it, and S had told her mom who had then told my mom. My mom wasn't mean, but she did tell me that if I tried to tell people something like that I wouldn't be looked at the same again. Funny enough S texted me a few hours after my mom had talked to me saying she was no longer comfortable having sleepovers with me alone. Pshh wow thanks. After I told her that I was confused and didn't know what I was saying and she took that excuse and pretended like I'd never said anything. She also told her mom who I guess believed too. My own damn bestfriend ratted me out to her mom then my mom because I thought I could trust her with who I am. Oof.
Went to a bible study with church friends and we discussed transgenderism and homosexuality. I’m “Catholic”-i don’t believe but I stay that way for my friends’ sake. My friend and this boy were talking to one of the adult volunteers. My friend describes how she refused to say her preferred pronouns at her college orientation because she didn’t want to support a sinful ideology. The volunteer praises her, then calls both kids “the antidote” needed to put society back on the right track. I was physically sick.
[this comment is directed at Mr. Atheist] 1:06 killed me. What actually killed me was your experience with the BSA. It’s really a great program when religion is left out of it and it has improved my life so much by giving me opportunities (like a sailing trip on St. Thomas Island) and a SCUBA cert. in the Channel Islands) that I would never have gotten anywhere else. Also, have you read the book _Educated_ by Tara Westover? It’s an amazing story of a woman’s escape from an insane survivalist version of Mormonism. One of the best books I’ve ever read.
As a 16 year old Christian, I was terrified for the immortal souls of my UNBORN children and was afraid I wouldn't be able to raise them to be good Christians as my mom had raised my older siblings. Basically my goal in life was to raise kids that were better Christians than I was as a kid and that would somehow redeem me for my sins as a kid. Idk how I missed that as a red flag for so long. I was sooo irrationally afraid for people who didn't even exist. I'd pray for the souls of my children who didnt exsist on earth. As I started reading my Bible more in response to this fear, I started to realize it was all shit. I was learning about evolution in school at the time and I didnt get deep into the church until I was about 9. I had always loved dinosaus, geology, and archeology before that. I think that was imperitive in me eventually leaving religion. Lol joke was on me, cuz I'll NEVER raise my son indoctrinated into a religion. I'm not making those choices for him. Hind sight is always 20/20.
One of the first times I began to realize I was in a cult was when the pastor put his hand on each teens head and told them to speak tongue. He then explained how. He said that in order to speak tongue, you had to talk gibberish and magically people will understand everything you said.... that's not how it works. So here I am, a 13 year old girl with a man touching my forehead screaming at us all. He wouldn't leave until you began to mumble to yourself gibberish. It was complete bullshit and I felt extremely uncomfortable.
The fact I, a cis woman (girl at the time), wasn't allowed to wear pants or shorts. Only skirts or dresses below the knee. Or maybe the fact that I wasn't allowed do consume any form of secular media, even Disney movies, as a kid. I could think of soooo many things though
They assigned me my best friend and she socially crippled me and contributed to/ directly caused several extremely severe mental shutdowns (and other issues) that led to me having to seek permanent therapy, drop out, and get on medicine. Im still not recovered.
See, back when I went to church pretty regularly, i got this feeling very time. I know it's less of a visible red flag, but i tend to get pretty accurate gut feelings and Church always made me feel sad and uncomfortable even when I was little before they really start in. I went to church on and off since i was little, went to bible camp a few years, and so on so forth. My dad and step mom and that whole side are atheists but never pushed me and I kinda landed there on my own after trying out religions. So these are kinda as an outsiders point. 1) "god created you gay, but acting on it is a sin" uhmmmmm, what the fuck?? I've never gotten an actual explanation on this one either. 2) i went to church with one of my friends- she'd stayed over the night before and i wanted to hang out with her more. They were passing around the grape juice and bread and it got to me and it's like 'oh shit what do i do?' And my friend looks at me and's like "are you a child of god?", of course I'm like "what??", So she responds with " you ever been baptized?" And when i answered with a 'no' she told me to just pass it. I dunno, this was just really jarring to me. I have more just can't remember it rn.
Looking back, there are lots of things from Mormonism that I can’t believe I bought into. I accepted the “doubt your doubts before you doubt your faith” thing as a mantra to quickly shoo away discomfort with cognitive dissonance. I accepted that I would never have the same privileges as men in the church, because MY privilege was the holy power to have more children than I could reasonably support and spend my life in servitude to my family. I only ever seemed to feel “the spirit” when there was music, and I accepted that music was the method through which it would communicate with me, rather than the much simpler explanation that I have an emotional connection to music itself. I could go on for days. Ugh.
I'd be interested to know what you guys think about the Twin Oaks Commune in Virginia. Here's there website. www.twinoaks.org/ It's not actually a religious group. It's a hippy commune. But I wonder if you could consider it a cult anyway because of the way they make their members dependent on the group and restrict what they can and can't do. Maybe their belief in sustainability could be to the point where it's almost a religion? Or maybe not. Either way, something to look into for this channel.
I had left the Catholic Church because I felt wrong and ashamed of my identity as a lesbian. But my skepticism began when we were told to fear “god” and to beg for his mercy, but that god was love. I was confused because I didn’t love what I feared, and it was just abusive to so many.
So, the part that made me denounce the entire cult: I was in 3rd or 4th grade, at a friend's birthday sleep over, (my family was military so I was typically the only Mormon in my grade/school.) My friends were asking questions about my "religion" and they were being sincere. When I contemplated the programmed response that had been drilled into my head, as I was already baptized by this time, their sincerity caused me to realize if I told them, I'd be spreading lies. I actually told them, if they are truly interested I could help arrange for them to meet the missionaries, and that since I didn't buy it I was the wrong person to answer their questions. I'll never forget that moment in my life. It still impresses me. But *I might not have had those morals and ethics to execute such an opportunity in that fashion, had I not been raised with LDS standards. There are many things, I can finally appreciate about my upbringing, but it has taken a lot of therapy and healing due to the black and white thinking, and other twisted thinking that cult breeds.*
Well, I guess wasn't "the part" as much as the moment of truth. I remember thinking it was bull shit that I had to follow so many rules, and that ppl who had died without ever hearing the gospel wouldn't be judged as harshly. *I remember being jealous of them.* That was the beginning of the end for me. My baptism was only special because it felt like my parents actually loved me for the first time since my sister was born.
The biggest thing that actually tipped me over the edge away from Mormonism (Thanks for making a video about it Jimmy, you helped me a lot) was learning that the way I was told Joseph Smith translated the BOM wasn't the way he actually did it. The church hasn't denied the rock and hat thing, but they never, not even once told me or any of my fellow Young Women? Wtf? Covering up the parts of your history that make you look bad is a huge red flag, Mormon church. :/
Several years ago, visiting my parents, who are life long LDS (I too, born and raised, denounced it at a young age, personally, but played the part bc you know, I had to basically) ANYWAY went to sacrament meeting for the uplifting music...it had been about a decade since attending *I took the sacrament, lmfao 😂 since I never bought it to begin with I completely didn't remember what it was about* but I definitely didn't want to go after my parents told me I could not partake... can't even imagine the conversation they had after that, oh how they failed me, ha jk Edit: as an adult, I didn't give af, so was mostly honest with my parents, they knew I was a pot head and booze party person
"Ladies, even if you're not financially stable or ready to have children you shouldn't wait to have children. Just have faith and God will make things work for you." Actual statement made by a previous young woman's leader of mine. Immediate red flag.
I was lucky enough not to be born into a cult per say but both of my parents do have an almost cult-like mindset toward the baptist church and Christianity as a whole. My mom once told me that my little stuffed rabbit was given a soul by an angel so he could protect me from nightmares and that God was always watching. I told my dad I didn't think Satan was real and he snapped at me saying that I was attacking his faith and somehow twisted my words into "there is no evil in the world" I have learned to shut up about my faith or lack thereof. The sad thing is that I genuinely have this almost aching need for some kind of spirituality, but I honestly can't believe in any of religion. It's like my emotional and logical sides are at war.
The red flag that I missed for years (similar to the “doubt your doubts” nonsense) was the Book of Mormon verse that said “to be learned is good... IF they harken unto the counsels of God.” In other words, learn stuff, but only if it agrees with the stuff you were already brainwashed to believe.
I actually had a great homeschool education on top of being Mormon. This hurt but also helped. Mom had me study logic, and the preface of one of my books talked about how crucial it was to be exposed to alternative arguments. At the same time mom assigned me books about other religions and I realized I really had no idea whether Mormonism was any truer than any other religion. My mom was annoyed with my questions, so I dropped it, but when I left the church at 21, I remembered that whole experience. the final red flag that really made me stop feeling guilty for my doubts and recognize the church was wrong, is that it explicitly forbids you from exploring the counter arguments. No true church should do that.
I was a member of the Mormon church for about 2 years. At first, before actually joining, everyone seemed so welcoming and loving. Later on at the YSA (young single adult) ward, I found out people were actually begging for me to not be invited to some activities. They knew I was an "outsider" because I would often question the teachings during studies, in the most polite and genuine way I could. I began to really feel their hatred for me. They knew I wasn't "temple-worthy", and that is everything to them.
I had church on Sundays, and Sunday School, CCD (Confraternity of Christian Doctrine )three times a week after school, I went to a catholic club every day and then later on in middle school I got trapped in a catholic school and church on wednesdays. I had no idea how much of my time was taken up by religion as a kid and thought it was totally normal. In reality at least 4 hours a day of my childhood was taken up by religion in one way or another and looking back it's totally insane. I am so grateful that I was such a book worm and was so much more involved in my own head than my surroundings. I kinda just figured that actual proof for the religion was a grown up thing and when I grew up I would have the proof I needed.
From my church: how much worship was incorporated into church services and how it pretty much made falling into trances all but certain (achieving an altered mental state was highly encouraged) From the church school- starting each day pledging to the Christian flag and the bible (in addition to the us pledge)
I am behind you 100%. To claim these "prophets" know more than writings translated and proving these folks wrong is rediculace. The amount of good you could do with the time spent spreading the word makes me sad. You could help alot of people who need help, not spiritual, but getting clothes, medicines, decent food, and some shelter. None of this requires religion. I am more of an agnostic. If there is a God, he/she gave us free will. What you do with your life is your business (especially when you hit 18), with religion I think you should be allowed to check into philosophy and religion at 16. My parents encouraged me to go to other churches with friends growing up. I was raised Episcopal, but have been to Mass, Synagogues, Baptist Churches (white & black), and others. I read on Hinduism, Buddhism, Witchcraft, and many others. Think for yourself, try not to offend others unless abuse is involved. Keep up the great work. I do watch both of your RU-vid shows. At times I get worked up because I have family wrapped into these groups. My 16 year old grand-child wants out. I tell her to stick to her own beliefs and in a year and a half I'll help her move and go to a decent college. I have a vehicle and several years of college tuition waiting when the time is right. I won't break the laws, but once the magic age of 18 hits, they have freedom. I am trying to make sure there is education available as well. One grandchild is in a school that had 7 suicides last year and about 12 attempts. This tells me something is wrong in Utah, home of some decent people and alot of mind control, sexually frustrated kids, and more than a few sick rapist (statutory rape mainly by people much older than the victim), and pedophiles in outer communities. The stats don't lie. I've been told by some who left it happens and is ignored by local authorities. Just call me an upset grandfather whose hands are tied......for now.
My first red flag was when I was at least 4 years old, I was told I was going to hell because I kept lying to my grandma. I only lied to her because she'd yell at me mercilessly, and I was trying to make her happy. But being 4 years old, I couldn't explain that.
Constantly praying, and having the ongoing conversation with God also removes discussion with peers. Which protects others from your conflicts. Leading to further isolation, even as an active Mormon.
After watching you and jimmy for nearly a year, I have come to the realization that if we knew eachother irl, we probably wouldn’t be good friends (you’re both very sarcastic, and people who are sarcastic in convo kinda rub me wrong cuz I’m super sensitive) but I LOVE what you do and fully support you, so I’m sure we would get along. ❤️❤️❤️
It isn't just religion, there are also MLM and other companies that can use cult-like tactics. Not to mention some tactics that the Army use which are somewhat dubious...
Man, when I was a kid I thought I was especially hard-done-by if I had to spend an hour in church on the occasions we were visiting or staying with my devoutly Methodist grandma.
When I was a Jehovah’s Witness an elder come up and hugged me from behind while I was sitting in my seat and basically put all his weight on me and my father was right beside me Prob should have been a red flag but I was 14 😂
11 years and a lot of therapy later, I’ve begun to learn that I was not to blame for being sexually assulted by another student while at catholic school. I was NOT an ill-disciplined Jezabel. I was NOT too open to the male students. It was not my fault that I was asked to call him to god as a part of my scholarship
I was already doubtful and not really religious (I had that revelation while watching Sonic the Hedgehog one Saturday morning, lol), but one of the biggest red flags was when we were moving. I found one of those tiny pocket bibles, a pink one, tucked away in the back of the then empty gun cabinet I was dusting; book looks brand new but dusty, so I puck it up and look at it, find a weird little certificate folded up inside it. I ask my mother what it is and she suddenly looks furious. Turns out my father and paternal grandmother had decided to have my baptized as a baby without telling my mother. I never knew. It was 13 years later and my mother never knew. They'd done it a few months after I was born while she was at work, and hide it from her for over a decade. Since then I can count on one hand the times my mother has mentioned ever praying, and she's only been in a church one time since for a wedding, over another decade later.
Not a member, and they have tried, but my problem was having faith in a religious sense. I think God exists, but I don't know for sure nor do I have some spiritual connection to say that I am a believer. It's a skeptical belief - dunno how else to put it. I have issues with them as well as what was said against. There are 2 different types of Mormons that follow the same church - one encourages you to question them, whereas the other forbids it. Mormons who were raised inside Utah are the heavily restricting types, whereas those were raised Mormon outside of Utah are more laid back. But the issue I have with them is claiming that if you're not white skinned, then you are evil. If you are Gay, if you believe anything else, you are evil. Truth is, whether cult or not, no one really knows what God wants. The best you can do is hope you are doing the right thing. Acting like God is on your side regardless of what you do is frankly arrogant and heavily wrong no matter what religion you associate yourself with. Being as good as you can according to laws we all follow and by what our heart agrees is good is honestly good enough. No religion is perfect, and until you accept that, you will never truly be honest with yourself - whether you are part of one or not.
Big red flag for me was how I could not go to a friend's house over the weekend when I was younger and NOT go to church despite none of them being Catholic (and I had to bring back a bulletin as PROOF, or at least recite whatever the gospel was that week) or I'd get into trouble/be punished. Also was shamed for accompanying friends to a Protestant church and a private session related to Jewish teachings, with my family claiming I was "turning my back on my religion" for even remotely taking part in these sorts of things, when at the time, that certainly wasn't the case.
My red flag I missed was when my grandmother told me, starting as a toddler and repeatedly throughout my childhood, that my friends would never understand our religion (Seventh Day Adventist) because only those worthy from birth would be able to understand the truth of the church. Half of my congregation growing up was related to me (my grandmother had a dozen siblings so it wasnt hard to have most of the church be related). I realized far too late in life that anything you need to be born in to to be worthy enough to attempt to be worthy to be saved for is not worth the effort.
For me in leaving Catholicism (I don't think Catholicism is a cult, but it's verging on it), it was the idea of original sin and the general, though largely unspoken, at least at my church, homophobia. The Pope may say 'Who am I to judge?", but do you see him reversing the ruling about Catholic priests marrying gay couples? I'm not GRSM but you better believe I'm a supporter.
The biggest change I found in deconverting was the shift of believing without evidence from being moral to immoral. Looking back I can't understand why I though having blind Faith was a good thing
The red flags for me were covered in the video and elsewhere I imagine but the focus on prayer as a constant conversation leaving me without much time to think independently. Us versus them thought process where anything not outside of the approved beliefs was ungodly and could lead to eternal damnation. Upon reflection, it seems like it was a lot of thought stopping techniques and fear-based limitation on ideas.
The hierarchies thing is *absolutely* the biggest red flag. When I first got into the pagan community, the one warning I got from just about everyone was never listen to anyone who says they're above you. Mentors understand that teaching goes two ways; abusers only let you go *their* way.
I not only got taught that people who didn't believe in God and Jesus were wrong and horrible, also that other churches and denominations were going to hell. We had a song that we sang that was you can't go to heaven on a Babtist bus, cause Jesus is a methodist, and when I maybe 12 asked the camp leader why the song said that, and she said only Methodists go to heaven, the other denominations don't really follow God. It wasn't technically a conversion therapy camp, but at the same camp the uhm TWELVE year olds were in a small group and one of the leaders brought up that if we ever had sex before marriage we were going to hell, and also we were required to share stories about when we were sexually attracted to someone and how it was wrong because we were girls. My dad had told the camp I'd had a crush on a girl and they put me in a 'special class' that was about being a good future Christian wife. I'm now an atheist lesbian adult, so you see how well those classes worked.
I know when I started attending Catholic school in Grade 4, this would have been 2004. I went there not because of relgious reasons, but because I wanted to follow my big sister there. (The public school in our town turned out to be really shitty anyways. I found out like 7-8 years later that students there bullied a kid with Cerebral Palsy to the point he switched schools.) Anyway! We used to go to mass with the school every month, this was a small town, in Alberta Canada, I figure if it was a big city somewhere else we'd have gone every week. But one time I remember clearly, being told that if you don't go the church every single week, you go to hell. And I just remember thinking how unfair that was to some people, and also being terrified. Because like, I didn't want to go to hell, but at the time I had no way to make it there every week, and there was no way my mom was going to take me. I brought it up with a friend of mine like maybe a decade later, and she told me that Catholics do truly believe it. Unless you're a doctor or something, but even then it's frowned upon, and you 100% can not miss Easter or Christmas mass. I know Catholicism isn't really a cult, as following the BITE model, but like. Holy fuck.
I grew up Pentecostal/Holiness. I find it funny bc as a kid I remember talking about how Catholics, Mormons, and JW's were cults. Now as I listen to what you guys went through, I see that it wasn't that much different from the Apostolic Church. They wished to control everything about their member's lives and bodies as well. From the way you dress, to what you eat, and even how you talk. Their main talking point was to "be ye separate and holy." I have actually confused Mormons for Pentecostal people in the past simply bc of the way they dressed and acted. We also had prophets but your pastor could be a prophet as well. These were two different things. I have heard many prophecies that failed including ones given specifically about myself. In the early church, if one prophesied and that prophecy failed, they were marked a false prophet and even could be kicked out of the Church. Usually, these people just went to another sect and continued on with their "spiritual gift." My spiritual gift was in music. I never took a piano lesson, while younger, or was taught by anyone how to play the piano but, I learned how to play and became the pianist and organist very quickly as I became pretty good. I also taught myself how to play the drums and bass(only basically and not proficient in any way just enough to get by if the person who usually played these were absent).This was confirmation bias for me while I was younger. It was a shock to find out later in life that almost anyone who dedicated enough time and energy could also teach themselves how to play by ear. I did take lessons from a professional later in life because I simply just wanted to learn how to read music. For some reason, God didn't think that was important for me to know. I now understand that the basic component of the Apostolic Church, and most religions for that matter, is fear. They keep you in a constant state of fear or being afraid of messing up and somehow not being able to be good enough to please god and make it to heaven. To this day, I can still hear the songs in my head which also instilled these messages. "I wouldn't take nothin' for my journey now. Gotta make it heaven somehow.. though the devil tempts me and tries to turn me around..." How I missed all of these red flags, I will never know. I was indoctrinated as a child and it took me almost 20 years to start doubting. I would just encourage anyone who is young and watching these videos to keep watching, keep asking questions, and never stop doubting and being skeptical. These are good things!
I wasn’t raised in a cult, but I was raised with a cult like mindset. I remember walking with my mother and younger brother and sister through the shops and while my mum head my baby sisters hand, my brother and I walked either side of her and a step behind. To protect her. We weren’t allowed to go anywhere unless it was with the family. We didn’t have many friends. There was a massive us against the world view of how things were. Lots of red flags, but that’s enough.
