Reparations & Jordan Neely | Glenn Loury & John McWhorter | The Glenn Show 

This is great. I left a PhD program about two years in abruptly right after the 2020 uprising. It was a long time coming, about a year into the program, I knew it was all wrong. What I realized is that politics influences culture and Black politics is a way to ensure the permanent underclass of African Americans. I felt both guilty but also very free and lighter and happier but I am viewed very suspiciously as an "academic failure." My life is incredibly better, but according to some, I am forever wrong and something is terribly awry with me. I loved finding you both because it helped me see I wasn't crazy. You have helped a lot of people work through their discomfort with what is happening.

What a crime to hear that you are being sidelined John. I admire you both so much and appreciate hearing your well reasoned commentary. Thank you for pushing forward.

Professor McWhorter, I admire you and your work very much and it pains me to hear how you’ve been treated by your erstwhile colleagues. Please keep speaking your mind. We need as many people like you (and Professor Loury) as possible in the public conversation. Much love from Colorado

Dr. Loury, and Dr. McWhorter are my heroes. I'm overly educated, and 67 years living in California, and I love California, but California no longer loves me.

I appreciate John sharing about his experiences feeling alienated from the linguistic community. As a fellow heterodox / independent thinker I’ve seen myself lose a good number of friends for expressing myself sincerely and in a truth-motivated manner. I wish it weren’t so, but to an extent it is nice to hear that this is something even John and Glenn are forced to question and struggle with from time to time. Cheers and thanks for your biweekly commitment to this podcast! ❤

Glenn, I am halfway through and had to stop to write this. First, as one of the 3rd generation Irish you spoke about, I think of my relatives in 1860, who had fled famine and de facto slavery in Ireland (see Thomas Sowell). I think of them joining the Union Army and fighting and dying at Bill Run - to fee the slaves. Second, your narrative about the source of capital accumulation was PRICELESS. Thank you for both, but put the capital accumulation into a short for RU-vid, please.

I wish I had you two gentlemen as neighbours. It would be an absolute pleasure. Cheers from Toronto, gents.

Glenn Loury is the man.

Professor McWhorter, much respect from North Carolina!

It is a crime at how under rated this show is! I love to hear the passion, reason, and focus these men and their guests bring to the difficult conversations in our society. It's so beautifully human while being intellectually rigorous and satisfying. I hope you all will continue in sharing these conversations with friends and family. Thank you Glenn, John, and others for sharing your thoughts and work with us! We gotta get this show over 100k subscribers at least!

I am not aware how I stumbled upon this show, as we don't agree politically, but this is a favorite of mine. Especially when you and John get together.

Bravo Glenn for your eloquent repudiation of this reparations movement.

No ham emoji, but 🐷 This was another insightful conversation. Thank you so much Glenn and John!

Love love hearing you two talk about your professional lives.

At around 43 or 44 minutes in, Glenn talks about wealth generation and my mind is blown. This has to be one of the most articulate, coherent and convincing arguments i've heard and could be extrapolated to many topics actually. Even more impressively is the way that John sets up this response by encouraging Glenn to justify a view/opinion rather than just holding it. These two are magic and i could watch and listen to them for hours.

“Running around with your hand out, saying pay me, is undignified.” Powerful and courageous truth

Oh John I just ache for you. I am so sad for you. But I think you are doing even more important work than you could ever have done in linguistics.

Hi Professor McWhorter, I’m saddened to hear that you have been shunned by some of those within the linguistics community. I don’t understand how specific individuals who claim to be so open-minded will shout down and ignore anyone with different views. If a group of conservatives decided to obscure the voice of liberals in a profession, I would also be angered by that. Please keep doing what you do, John; it means so much to many of us.

Totally LOVED "Our Magnificent Bastard Tongue"! Thanks for your amazing scholarship and capacity to share it with non-specialists.

The most wild thing about the Jordan Neely case is by any reading of the law the other 2 who helped Penny restrain Neely should be charged, but as far as I know no charges are coming.

Love it when we hear Glenn's oft-repeated refrain, "There, said it! Yes, I said it!" Truths always flank the words. 👏👏👏

This was the best wrap-up of any of your shows, fellows.😀 "You promised me a Ham, and you gave me a Chicken." I laughed so much that 😂I had a headache.🤣

Loved Glenn’s summary of his conversation with Finkelstein. His ability to take in and accurately restate his guest’s views down to the minute details shows he’s a consummate good faith guy.

I've been involved in several incidents with homeless people at the shelter I worked at. Some of them like to intimidate others. There's no way around it that sometimes we needed to call the police. Also, when they didn't get their demands met, they would use every slur in the book against our staff. Unacceptable.

Well John. You are loved and appreciated by many. And while we may not encompass your linguist community, we are far from chopped liver! So many thanks

I love you guys and I love you for one simple reason. You love the truth. It is your North Star. You follow the evidence wherever it leads and this requires moral courage. This requires common sense and moral courage. These are increasingly rare in the modern era. We are supposed to suppress the truth, ignore the evidence if it leads us to conclusions that are less than emotionally satisfying. I cannot stomach this modern obsession. Please keep up the good fight.

Thank God for your willingness to speak the truth! In our culture at this time you are heroes.

Welcome to the ranks of the under-appreciated, John. I say this with the warmest regard and a sincere bow to you, sir. My respect and esteem for you and Glenn has deepened and widened over the years. If anything, this particular humble "confession" knits you with our ranks, those not swept away by the madness of the crowd, and so we are left in their wake. A bit saddened, but never quite despairing. I've found that Hope is always coupled with Wisdom. This has only confirmed you in our eyes as an example of true manhood. Thank you. We have no titles to bestow, but we know - you are right.

John McWhorter is the most popular linguist that You Tube has... And considering the number of RU-vidrs out there... that's Saying a lot. Congratulations John... You offended the woke crowd... Which means you're on the way up!

Centrist and/or purists, in other words those who seek the truth above all else. Bravo to you Professor McWhorter and to Steven Pinker. The elites that look down on you few should be ashamed.

Try as they might, these nonentities will never have the impact as a public intellectual that people like McWhorter and Pinker have had. Glad that Glenn finished the memoir draft. Looking forward to reading it on release.

Perfervid exhortation from Glenn, wonderful stuff. Thank you for your work, gents.

I always enjoy your conversations, gentlemen. Thank you for your contributions to society!

That's crazy. John is THE guy on the idea of black English as a legitimate, first-class language.

Absolutely loved this conversation.

Thank you both for your ongoing insights and reflections on life in the US.

A great episode! Reparations for slavery is essentially a shakedown. The debate has also resurfaced across the pond, where predictably people on the Right reject it rightly on grounds that Britain did more than any other nation to ensure abolition succeeded globally, and it did this largely by itself at its own expense.

Great episode! 🍖

Both of you guys are beyond cool regardless what the young ones say.

this podcast rules. keep up the great work :-)

The argument that the "people with three names" would still say and do what they do regardless of a pay-out is probably true. As John says, what they have is a state of mind rather than an argument. The idea that people who had *zero* to do with slavery or redlining paying out to those who did not suffer it is absurd and racist and so quixotic it makes my blood boil.

I wish I could sit in on both of the professors classes.

Fantastic as usual!

JM tugging at the heart strings. Much love from Indiana.

I remember Dr. McWhorter speaking on NPR about reparations a couple years ago. This was in a period when a person of color could say anything, no matter how stupid or offensive, and get no push back from the hosts at NPR. Dr. McWhorter just questioning whether reparations were a good idea got more pushback from the host than I had heard in months of interviews combined. I am a child of the left. I grew up in NYS, in a union, working class family. In the military I was the unit lefty. I've graduated from college and have rarely voted Republican, and then usually regretted it. Despite all of that, the idea of reparations fills me with rage. Being forced to pay for sins I did not commit to people who did not endure them is too much to bear. It is probably the only thing that would push me to vote for the Trump-MAGA crowd in the coming elections. However much I know I would regret it later. Thank you for an interesting conversation.

These guys are addictive

Lovely to listen to you men.

Another great episode fellas. I went to find a ham emoji and was denied. I found a chicken. BUT I WANT MY HAM!

You guys are such heros! Awesome honesty.

Excellent discussion

Gentlemen, I sincerely thank you for your clearheaded, intellectual objectivity and your moral spine.

Glenn, I could listen to you all day. Stay awesome.

I appreciate your work John.

I’m sorry to hear that!! I would love that too!!

Even if current black leaders signed the note "paid in full", other generations will revisit their success and keep the game going.

Professor Loury, I certainly agree with your take on reparations. The idea is outrageous!

Two gems of society. I wish we had more brave and fun gentlemen in the world!

I truly enjoy your show. It's refreshing to see two smart intellectual guys just be honest about what they're actually thinking. Today's society wants to punish anyone who thinks for themselves and being in constant conflict with the faceless masses of conformists is a tiring affair. But, it should also be remembered that at a certain point in one's life there is almost nothing they can do to you. They've done it, and you've lived your life anyway, so you have nothing to lose, and that can be freeing as well.

Love and appreciate you too more and more each video I watch

22:35 I had an experience recently that was very similar to this that blew my mind a little bit. I am from Southwest Missouri, but myself and a co-worker were traveling to Washington, D.C. for a work conference. We got off the plane on a Wednesday night, and caught an Uber to the AirBnb, but we were both hungry so we asked the Uber driver if he had any good suggestions for food that were still open (it was probably 9:30 P.M.). He suggested a Pakistani place (he was Pakistani himself) and it sounded awesome so he dropped us off there (it was only a short walk from our AirBnb anyways). This is not in a bad part of town, it is a middle class area (if that matters). About halfway through our meal, a tall 30-40 year old black male (for those who care) walked into the restaurant carrying a large, fixed blade knife and began shouting incoherently and walking aggressively between the tables. Everyone in the restaurant just pretended he wasn't there, so me and my co-worker did the same. The only words I heard him say beyond random curse words were "I'm gonna get my respect" or something like that repeatedly, and then he eventually left. After he left, there was a moment where all the patrons of the restaurant just sort of looked at each other and rolled their eyes. The owner of the restaurant sat down with us afterwards and was explaining how this was normal, and he was tired of it because it was disruptive. We asked why he didn't call the police, and he just laughed: "The police don't care- they just ignore it". I was flabbergasted, because the guy didn't run off or anything, he continued to do the same thing to passersby across the street (yelling, swinging his knife around, etc.). It wasn't as if the police couldn't find him if they wanted to, they just don't care. The most ironic thing of all to me was I had just flown into a city which bans nearly all weapons. My damn pocket knife is probably illegal in D.C. because the blade length is too long. Now the obvious rebuttal here is that "this guy didn't end up doing anything though- he didn't actually stab anyone- so what is my problem"? This is sophistry at its finest, but I will answer anyways. The problem is that the individual was _wanting_ for someone to ask him to leave- his entire purpose was to demonstrate that he could walk into a restaurant, wave a knife in your face and demand respect, and not be asked to leave or challenged in any way. He knows the restaurant owners won't ask him to leave, he knows the police won't show up and make him leave, and he knows all the law-abiding individuals in the restaurant have no means of defending themselves against him if he decides to escalate. The real question though is what happens if I am with my kids when that happens? What happens if a five year old girl, unsure of what is happening, starts crying and acts terrified? What happens when Dad asks the man politely to stop yelling and waving a knife around because you are scaring children for no reason? What if this individual decides he doesn't like this response and escalates or acts on his aggression? Well, apparently in D.C., the answer is that you are at the whim of whatever this man wants to do to you. Because the police aren't showing up (except maybe to zip me up in a body bag afterwards) and none of the civilians have a way to intervene to stop that person if he decides to start stabbing someone (my concealed carry permit unfortunately isn't any good in D.C.). This man is doing this because he can, and he knows nobody can stop him. He knows the police won't show up, and he knows that nobody in that restaurant has an effective way to stop him if he chose to stab someone. As a result of this, when he walks into the restaurant waving his knife aggressively and shouting, he is in charge. He decides how this is going to go, and he decides if your behavior was docile enough for him to move on. More importantly, he decides if anyone gets stabbed or not. That formula changes if the police bother to do their damn job. And just for the record, it doesn't matter what the skin color is of the people in this story. I don't care if it is a white dude acting crazy, waving a knife around or a purple lesbian dinosaur doing it, the issue is with the behavior overall and tolerance of such behavior in that city's culture and the inaction of the police.

Hang in there guys. Sanity shall return.

I know it means nothing, but I am so grateful for you Mr. McWhorter!

Hot damn! I love the spicy takes :)

Lexicon valley is a great name for a linguistic podcast

Glenn, you are ABSOLUTELY correct / practical common sense when it comes to reparations.

I loved “Talking Back, Talking Black.” It enlightened me about AA vernacular.

This is great, too. I especially like the discussion about the mentally ill. I lived in a homeless shelter and there was this man who was schizophrenic. Everyone had to go to this station where we were given our meds, but upon being given his this man wouldn't take them, and while he wasn't violent when I was there, he walk up and down the aisles, talking to himself. One question is if this man is indeed mentally ill, does he know it, does he understand the ramifications and why he needs to take his meds? If he's unwilling, then he falls into the hands of the state who has to care for him - and that takes money, then how much must it be spent for someone who is incurable? Mental illness has a long and sordid history, and so far no solution has been found.

I love John's books, both the ones on linguistics and those on the politics of race, please keep writing!

Wonderful the first time and awe inspiring this second time on listening to the podcast. Thanks🥓

John's NPR (I think) show on linguistics was how I initially found him (listened on my feed whenever they came out). His episode (they were like 30 mins or so if i remember right) on black English was outstanding, very informative, and really should serve as a primer for anyone interested in the subject or just how languages work in general.

Huge fan of u both. Did not know John’s expertise is Creole. For levity, Stalecracker needs to be on the blog.

Glenn's response/comment on reparations is spot on...🙌

Such a clear and logical take down of reparations, thank you Glen

HAM

I am really sorry John. Stay strong

Sorry for your situation. John and Glen.

I love Glen and John!!!

Well done Glenn

I am sad to say I could not locate a ham emoji. Another thing that the reparation camp avoids dealing with is the backlashes (and I do mean plural). The simplistic, intellectually bankrupt worldview in play won't know how to respond to human nature, which is sad, because human nature doesn't change. There's been plenty of time to learn, and we haven't. A solid rule of thumb is: the enemy always gets a vote. And all the cancellations, censorship, and social shamings won't stop it. If anything, they guarantee its incredible violence. See also: Yugoslavia.

Thank you gents.

Wow, I’m just finding you gentlemen. You’re incredible, brilliant and respectful. Truths you speak ring in my heart and soul🙏🏼This other stuff, as a lesbian even, is just … devoid of truth. Observe nature, read nothing, observe nature😢Its nuts 🥜

I listened to Lexicon Valley after watching this episode the first time and John’s right!! “It’s a fun little show…it’s a hoot” -It is very interesting! The episode I listened to was all about the word “to”& its use or not, in other languages -quite intriguing

“This above all: to thine own self be true, And it must follow, as the night the day, Thou canst not then be false to any man."

these two need to be on TV.

Anyone who was in Manhattan daily for the last 15 years should be able to attest to Jordan Neely’s propensity for violence and irrational, antisocial behavior. He was regularly getting into fights with people in Times Square back in 2007-2012 as I recall seeing him nearly every day.

Professor McWhorter: It's part of the linguistics academic tradition. They call(ed) Chomsky an anarchist, and he didn't care. Neither should you.

Wokeness isn't all bad. It led, albeit indirectly, to me discovering these two people.

In appreciation of all those people in the Royal Navy and Union Army who faced slavery, a universal scourge woven in civilization throughout history, and defeated it!

It's very different being on a subway car where there is no place to go than being in an automobile where you can close up the windows and can drive away.

John, I am a big fan, as I am with Glenn. You do seem to be very casually mentioning who needs to be restrained and by default who doesn’t. I think that puts us in a very tenuous situation. When we casually discuss who may or may not need to be restrained, and who may or may not have the right to restrain individuals it gets messy quick. I would give this a little more thought as there is no policy or rationale to a lot of what you’re saying around who needs to be restrained. You just seem to be suggesting that this person needs to be restrained based on your subjective feelings. Your subjective feelings are valid but are not the reference point of significance. Thank you gentlemen I appreciate your work.

37:46 is amazing Glenn!

John, if it’s any consolation, your work and your name has reached more people than you ever did as a professor. In the long run, you will have influenced society more than just the students. I keep buying your latest book to give away and sharing your articles. Witch they weren’t all behind a paywall.

John McWhorter you are awesome brother.

Wish Jack could've gotten the first 20 minutes of this episode of my life back.

I disagree with these two a bunch of policy, but damn it, I respect both of them immensely. I feel so bad for John being ostracized in his professional life because he has a contrary opinion. Hope only the best for him

I got my doctorate in 1970 as the first wave of baby boomers were hitting the academic market. It was a dreadful oversupply with 200 applicants for every academic position in my field. I was of two minds, wanting to do research and publish yet fresh from seeing the vicious politics in academia while in grad school and being very wary of signing up for a life of bickering and jealousy. I ended up with a series of positions wiith government and being fortunate to be able to do significant research, not without infighting, but not as bad as in academia. And the pay was better.

35:30 It's amazing that even John, a black man, is afraid to broach this topic despite the overwhelming amount of data and anecdata that supports the legitimacy of what he is saying. I also feel this same hesitation. The weird thing is, there is not a single, broad generalization I would be hesitant to make about white people if I thought that generalization were more or less true. It just goes to show how deep the programming goes and how suffocating the current climate is. Also, I seem to remember John being much more candid when talking about an Omar like character on the subway. I remember an episode where he specifically brings up the fact that, from his own experience, it's mostly black men who cause issues on public transport and he said this without any hesitation. I wonder if he feels more pressure now that he works for the NYT.

On the reparations issue, it will not change anything. John is right, it's a state of mind for them, not a problem to be solved. It's a perspective of the world.

Great discussion. Thanks. Would pay to see Glenn Lowry debate someone like Coates on the matter of reparations. He's so eloquent and logical here. Also nice to hear the kind words about Norman Finkelstein.

Neely also got arrested for attempting to take a 7 year old girl off the street as well…