Responding to claims from the 2007 movie Zeitgeist about an ostensible template for a “solar messiah” divine profile of which Jesus is supposed to be just another example.
This was the nightmare of a video i unfortunately commented on, and likely why you got dragged into it. Thanks again for seemingly infinite patience and another wonderful video.
The Bible is just another book made to control. There are hundreds of IDENTICAL story’s to the Bible. For example, Krishna of India was Crucified in 1200 B.C (and yes crucifixion was a thing during that time) Krishna was also born of a virgin, he also performed miracles such as curing the sick and healing the blind and deaf, he was in some story’s resurrected 3 days later, Shepherd’s and angels were present during his birth and gifted him gold and such, his father was a carpenter, his disciples gave him the name Jeezus, Kirshna was also the second in the trinity which was the father the son and the Holy Ghost, He was also called the alpha and omega and he raised the dead.- Sounds familiar. This is one religion and god that is identical to the Bible and Jesus, Remember that this is over 1000 years before Jesus and there is many more just like it.
December 25th was not a date on any calendar in use by any of the civilizations mentioned, nor can December 25th be extrapolated to any of these calendars.
Actually it can be extrapolated to any calendar very easily. December 25 is about 2-3 days from the winter solstice at around December 22-23. Almost every calendar has dates marked for winter solstice, so you add 2-3 sunrise and sunsets and you arrive at the date corresponding to December 25
@@1dueceon9er No, I'm referring to the fact the orbits of the planets simply cannot be made to fit any calendar that runs uninterrupted for thousands of years.
@@gamer7916yeah, it's pretty stupid to think since previous peoples used different calendars that we can't match up anything? That's like saying the Gospels never mention "Jesus" It's true. The original Gospels did NOT have the word "Jesus" in them....they were written in greek! But that doesn't mean translation is not possible.
Uh, it’s proven ancient Egyptians ran on the same colander as us… and that there is a literal astrological phenomenon that would happen on said dates lmao.
I never understand why people keep flashing that Krishna's mom was a virgin, when he's the youngest of many childdren born to a married couple who was locked up together for years.
There was a time not too long ago when these types of claims would be met with either: 1. Flat denial from apologists and assertions that the Bible is inerrant. or... 2.Atheists scoffing and snorting that "they're all myths--who cares?" Thanks Dan, for doing something new on the internet. Your impeccable knowledge gives the world an expert, "in-universe" understanding of all these ancient stories.
Horus also was born on December 25th, I don’t get why the disprovers, always put less effort into their rebuttals and offer no source or evidence of anything lmao, the more I want zeitgeist the movie to be disproved the less likely it becomes that it’s disprovable.
@@nicholasmerlino293 Wtf are you talking about? There literally is no document that states the Horus was born on a date that coincides with the date we know as 25th December. Like not one.
@@Durante_di_Alighiero dude I literally looked it up “The ancient Egyptians believed that the god Horus was born around December 25th, but there is no evidence that this date was ever celebrated” and yes it says “believed” but everything in this world is “believed” our entire history is just “believed”. All major events are all “believed” with the occupying “facts” and “context” but even then it’s still just believed. Objective Truth certainly exists but I mean there’s literally no way of ever knowing if something is really objectively true
My favorite part of Egyptian mythology is where Horus is betrayed by Typhon. A Greek mythological monster that was specifically birthed by Gaea to fight the Olympians and was defeated by Zeus. Just in case: Greek and Egyptian people meeting blended the myths at times (according to some versions, the gods running from Typhon in the form of animals were the basis of the Egyptian deities!), but this is the first I've ever heard of Typhon interacting with any Egyptian deity in either set of myths
I really wish we knew more about Mithraism, Christianity's major competitor. We do have evidence of at least one similarity: Justin Martyr accuses Mithraists of copying Christian Communion in his First Apology Chapter 66.
Slight misspeaking at 1:32 "The only thing said in that clip that is accurate is that Osiris was Horus's son." It should have been "Horus was Osiris's son," which is what Dan surely meant to say.
I’ve seen a few content creators update their views over much milder disagreements, but so far I haven’t seen any wilder conspiracy theorists or authoritarian dogmatists meaningfully engage with any of Dan’s commentary.
There have been a couple folks who've acknowledged misinformation, and one who deleted their original video and shared mine on their channel. It's pretty rare, though.
I believe Dr. Dan said it best: Think critically and Google competently. (I hope I got the quote right.) A lot of the info Dr. Dan gave us can be gotten from the web with a modicum of effort. You don't always need a PhD to be informed.
I’ve never seen this movie. To my knowledge Osiris cut to pieces and scatter to the Nile by his brother then I’ve heard some stories where he placed sarcophagus.
No he just lied several times and generally argued in bad faith. Horus was also the God of the sun, Ra as well just like Apollo and Helios were both gods of the sun. The sun is literally the most important thing to us, the ancients knew that too which is why they created several gods who personified the sun. Not only that, but many of these claims that Dan tried to counter are literally carved in stone like Horus and his 12 disciples.
@@dripfoe_3307there is literally no archaeological evidence to support the claim. The only thing closest to the idea of disciples are the followers of Horus. Shemsu-Heru, and there are supposedly only 4 of them.
@@dumbnumb162the claim that Horus didn’t have 12 disciples is the closest thing to truth this dude has said the entire video everything else he so confidently says is wrong lmao
Well...of course they didn't. The reason December 25th keeps coming up is because it is the first day the sun can be observed to be moving back skyward, signifying the advent of spring again. The "birth of the sun." No calendar is needed, just astronomy.
Correct me if I'm wrong- but the statement made for several of these deities that they were supposedly crucified is laughable on its face because these myths existed long before the Roman Empire and the actual invention/use of cuxifiction by them. Like, that takes two seconds to think about. I'm mystified that someone actually believes that any of this nonsense is true, and not just on this one fact alone.
@@morganwyatt5953 it probably existed in some way or shape even before that. After all, people in antiquity are surprisingly creative when it comes to ways to kill people in the most painful way possible
So Dionysus restored to life from a leftover heart being a resurrection is “nonsensical”? If you remove all the parts of someone except an organ, is that person still alive? Under your logic, Jesus also regenerated, since even after he was killed on the cross, his bone and skin cells would still be alive for several days.
@@howlrichard1028 except no Ancient Greek thought of their gods that way. In fact, Dionysus is said to die and resurrect every year. Even Pan was thought to have died in the first century CE, and when the Greeks heard it they cried and mourned
@@gamer7916Dionysus is an odd one. He seems to come from some quite old mythology, but depictions changed a lot as time went on. One of the tidbits which seems to have stuck was Dionysus having the rare ability to (more or less) freely travel to and from the underworld.
Loved this debunking but was shocked and offended by the the exclamation of "G... d..." If you're defending Christianity, why are you blaspheming? Geez louize (see, not a curse word there... there are substitutions people).
The creator is creative but he has no method. His inability to recognize Dr. Dan's scholarship tells me he is getting ready to walk into a right upper cut. This explains why he so obsessed with stars.
Zeitgeist was the most powerful piece of (what I assumed to be) propaganda aimed at the US from my teenage years. In my mind, it is the cornerstone of the early years of viral information warfare aimed at disillusionment of an entire generation. I’m relieved to see a major pillar of the video demolished by a scholar, (even if by appeals to authority) Thank you for step one. Also, now that I think about it, you have a similar cadence and range as the voice of Zeitgeist, but definitely not the same timbre. Age difference maybe!? 🧐🤨 that’s quite the long march to become famous by disproving your own piece of propaganda! [Seriously reader. That’s a convoluted joke about (the long march of) communism. A joke which seizes ground with the same accuracy of thought that inspired and proliferated the zeitgeist movie in the first place. Dan McClellan has no investment in the liberalization of faith. In fact, he does not even teach his own theology. He only seeks share the best scholarship within his reach He would Never abuse his position and education to cause you to question your faith. (Again, another joke, Don’t fall for what I just did there) Zero doesn’t exist. The sky is a dome. you are a slave. The earth is flat. We didn’t go to the moon. Mudfloods, the sun is a six-thousand year cycle of micro-novas that resets humanity and the next thousand years is a day of rest for the earth…. I wonder if word salad to make my point…. The most important aspect of propaganda is the inducement to exhaustion. Its not about true versus false. by the time you start to feel the anxiety, more and more noise works… and less and less reason is required to keep the ball rolling. The fog of war rolls in before the bullets fly. And if the fog is thick enough or your lamps just so, the enemy will devour themselves. War sucks. The sun rises in the east and sets in the west (and never as mesmerizing as now.) but west is the east and east is the west and no one knows how to plow.
I mourn the amount of souls that will not receive the Lord's salvation because of lies conveniently packaged, this "zeitgeist" movie seems to be a mind-virus that fully and utterly convinces people to worship themselves as God. Thank you Dan for taking the time to debunk these claims.
Horus didn’t have intercourse. Not how we would consider it at least, not sure how flying around a dead person on a kite and getting pregnant, proves she wasn’t a virgin lmao
“Based on pure and utter fabrication” as if the intention of the creator of zeitgeist isn’t more pure and for the benefit of the people than the corrupt leaders of every single religious organization on this planet. Zeitgeist is arguably less of a conspiracy theory than any religion, the fact the term religion exists is a problem they should all be considered myth/legend, or all be considered religion, separating the two creates the impression that they aren’t the same thing 😂
You have to be very cautious of taking these texts too literally. They're all allegorical. We've lost the keys to the allegories so we cannot understand them. Godfrey Higgins, in his monumental work Anacalypsis, published 1840, said "All gods ultimately resolve into the Sun." So a literal reading of the texts may not show immediate similarities between these various deities, but it's very likely that a deeper reading will show echoing parallel themes. It's inconceivable in fact that they are not ultimately solar deities. After all, what is a "god"? It's simply a personification of a natural event. The Rg Veda is full of what are essentially nature deities...Indra, god of the rains, eg. Clearly humans must have originally worshipped the Sun as the bringer of life. Then he was given human form and legends and mythology grew up around the deity to make it easier for people to relate to. Higgins also says the texts are written at two levels. One, a literal meaning intended for "women and children", and an allegorical level intended for priests and intelligentsia. Higgins also says the mythology repeats on 600 year cycles known as the "cycle of Neros". The Romulus and Remus story of the founding of Rome is one example of a constantly repeating mythology. So the Jesus story is most likely another example. Since Christ > Kristo > Krishta > Krishna., clearly there's a parallel between "Jesus" and Krishna, even if it's not immediately obvious. Obviously Dec 25 is no arbitrary date. It's very close to the Winter Solstice, and no doubt the discrepancy can be explained by changing calendars over the millennia. There are plenty of other parallels between "Jesus" and Krishna. For instance, we can say that "Jesus" is both Shiva and Vishnu, since his Biblical names are Isa/Isha ('s' is sounded 'sh' in Sanskrit). This is a name of Shiva. Yeshua (Yeshwara in Sanskrit), Kristos and Yesu are other names of Krishna. In India, Krishna is known as Yesu Krishna and Kristna. Furthermore, Melchizedek was Lord Krishna. One of the names of Krishna is Sadhaka. The term of address for a king is Malika. Thus Malika Sadhaka, or Melichi Zedek, is king, or lord, Krishna. Similarly, Jerusalem is Yeru-shalayim in Hebrew, and Yadu-Ishalayam in Sanskrit, meaning rock of the Yadus. Krishna was of the Yadu clan as are the Jews, hence, Yid, Yuden. So you can see the eerie parallels between "Jesus" and Krishna. There were all sorts of shenanigans concerning Krishna's birth. While on the face of it it's not the same as the Jesus story, no doubt with further digging, bearing in mind the allegorical nature of the texts, parallels could be drawn by those much better qualified them me. Certainly eminent seventeenth and eighteenth century academics believed there were parallels. Krishna was impaled on a tree by a hunter's arrow, which he must have survived (resurrection?) since he went to Palestine. This might be a parallel with the crucifixion. And while normally Krishna's "appearance" day is celebrated in August, there are villages in India where it is Dec 25. Possibly the August date is a result of failing to correct the calendar. And since 'nile' means blue in Sanskrit, as in in 'Blue Nile', Sanskrit speakers must have been in Egypt, so a careful reading of the texts allowing for allegory may well reveal a connection between Horus and Krishna.
