Response to Dave Canterbury's Neck Knife Argument 

Not stressed. He made a lousy argument - his reasons for not using a neck knife don't make any sense.

@@outdoorsonthecheap Dave made this argument over 6 years ago. Different strokes for different folks. You are kinda late for the party! Get over it!

OK... 2+2=5. Now by your reasoning, no one can criticize my math if it's 2031. Awesome!

@@outdoorsonthecheap🤫

😂👍

Nooooooo.

@@davidheath2427 care to elaborate?

Sorry If I was wrong about your preferred knife size - It's really hard to pin you down on that one since I've seen you with such a range of sizes. I recall your old beloved $3 butcher knife - definitely not neck knife material - and as I said, there is a predominance of knives that are a bit large for wearing on the neck among your PKS knives.

@@outdoorsonthecheap I actually prefer the belt knife for major utility and a pocket folder or SAK for most general tasks which reduces the need for a 3rd blade around the neck anyway in most cases unless in camp skinning game etc. but everyone should do what works for them as there is no right or wrong really

Never said there was a right or wrong answer - just spoke to your rationale. I too carry an SAK (trailmaster) as a backup & tool kit - though I ground down the serrated edge to just be a regular edge, and filed down the keychain clip to keep it from going through my pocket. I gotta ask man - what Island were you on for the Nova Scotia episode of Dual Survival? We have lots of islands so its really hard to tell.

@@DavidCanterbury SAK knives are a must. Carried them when we were kids 40 plus yrs ago. Got into other knives and just forgot about them. It's been decades but just bought one again 2 months ago. Everybody should have one

I agree if you main task at that moment is walking and your belt knife is not in the way with the hip straps of your backpack belt carry underneath your clothes is a good option and even my preferred one. If during the hike I hit a good fishing spot, foraging spot or in camp with food prep for instance and the knife will be in and out of the sheath a lot I change to neck carry. So after seeing this video I watched yours. I really like the lightweight Mora Basic 546 and the Mora Companion in stainless steel because these plastic sheaths are very easy to clip on and off on basically anything. I just have a neck lanyard in my pocket I can put on and off. A stainless steel knife in a plastic sheath with a good drainage hole and you don't have to worry about body sweat, heavy rain or river crossings. Just after use in salt water rinse it off with fresh water like a diving knife. I've backpacked and spend time in nature for 6 months in both Colombia and Thailand being wet with sweat or rain all the time and for a small camp knife had a Mora Basic 546 and it did all the work I needed it to do. Butchered chicken, gutted fish, stood chest deep in water while fishing, did river crossing and also batoned small firewood into kindling, etc. I sharpened it on the back of a ceramic cup or rock and stropped it on my leather belt. That's it.

I have used both but like the belt knife. I do have my reasion for not liking the neck knife but it’s my history of being a para.

Yes I know the knife you are talking about. I've never been a fan of the design and think they are overpriced, and prized more for their beauty than functionality. I prefer the "puukko" design , such as that used for the Mora companion, arguably for the same ecology, and arguably, determined ideal through trial and error many more than 100 years ago.

Mors got the idea from spending time with first nations people. They, arguably, are the survival & bushcraft professionals :) Good point about the zipper or poncho. I suppose there may be some sort of workaround, but I guess I lit button up top coats so I've never dealt with that.

@@outdoorsonthecheap I thought Native American methods of carry would come up. If Mors got the idea from the first nations, he sure took his sweet time implementing it. He has a video of his preferred carries over his years and a neck knife was one of his latest choices. One in particular was a gifted knife by a custom maker. I'm not new to this debate though I won't claim to be an expert. In vids of people making historically accurate indigenous sheaths, most knives were worn in sashes(also see Matt Graham), free swinging loops from belts and even on wrists. Imagine an indigenous of the plains that made his living on horseback have a neck knife slapping him in the face with every other stride. I can direct you to a vid of an eastern woodlands specialist of indigenous decent wearing a knife at his side. I've seen some point to a painting of a NAI wearing a neck knife as part of his ceremonial dress. The painting was made 100 years after that man died. One of the most ridiculous arguments I saw was a man in buckskins defending the tiny neck knife he wore. He claimed it was the preferred carry because "they didn't have pockets". What is a sheath? He also assumed (while wearing buckskins) that some of the finest leather crafters on the planet were incapable of devising a belt. I'm not arguing NAI's never neck carried, but from the brief research I've done, it was the exception instead of the rule. There's also no argument here about NAI's being the undisputed survival pros.

Just a thought, if you tie your lanyard with a double fisherman's knot, then it would be very easy to adjust the length of the lanyard.......long or short.

@@bighill5680 This is an idea. I have done this with a small compass I carry whenever i'm out but not for around my neck. I use it to easily get on and off my wrist easily but allow me to keep it securely on my left wrist for easy frequent barring checks. I would be leery of doing this around my neck though for risk of affixation regardless of how minute the possibility may be. I like many use 550 or 750 cord which can be pretty strong for the size.

@@Steakfrie a lot of good points and observations here. Well put.

You know I've heard many people that don't like neck knives talk about the dreaded choking themselves. I was Airborne in the military. I have many jumps out of planes made by the lowest bidder. We always had Dogtags on. Never ever seen one choke someone. These people that complain usually have necklaces on. Bet they never had their necklaces twist and choke them until they break. Yet they wear them. I just find that whole idea ridiculous. From my readings I've found Scandinavian people used neck knives because of cold weather gear an Also the risk of falling through ice. It's easier to get to your knife around your neck. Then try and find it around your waist. This doesn't make a difference to me. I like the usefulness having it around my neck. An its Not likely I'll fall through ice in my state. It's hardly snowed in a few years. Lol. Just a data point. I guess my point is if your scared of something very unlikely I'm not sure the outside is the place for you. No matter what you do Murphys law will always exist! (Anything that can go wrong will go wrong, usually at the worst possible time) Ask any soldier.

I think even Dave suggested that - but IMO it's a good way to lose a knife. The lanyard must have 0% risk of failure. The risk of strangulation is simply unfounded.

And if it hangs up in your neck area and unholsters you might suffer hard. Neck knives are weird

Thanks and welcome

Right on man

Mors is in Northern forests, and there are more relevant sources for skills in desert or Southern settings. Mors can't get to his belt knife under his 6 layers of parkas, sweaters, and clothes. I usually just reach into the back pocket of my shorts.

Yes I guess if binoculars are a necessity then a neck knife makes no sense. The woods are mostly too thick for binoculars here.

Yes! Thank you!

I’m pretty sure the whole point of the video is that he prefers to carry his load on his chest.

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂​@@Mael01369

I literally showed the blade. It looks like all my other carbon steel blades that I've been wearing for years. None of them are black because I look after them. The knife would only turn black if you never used it and did not maintain it at all.

A potato will help acheve that great color faster.

@@thomasbryson2757 Think reality, not appearance.

Thanks man!

There's no showers or restrooms where I go.

@@outdoorsonthecheap I’m coming from the perspectives of a thru hiker. Camp to camp to camp to town to camp to town etc. First thing we want to do is drop our packs at every stop 🧻

Why are you taking a knife into a restroom or shower?

@@outdoorsonthecheap sense of security

That woulD be cool for sure! I don't think think Dave has much time for that :) He did comment on this video somewhere among the other 300+ comments

Ha ha thanks - hope you like it :)

The phrase "personal preference" shows up so many times in these comments. I must do a video on that. Is neck vs belt really and coke vs pepsi thing?

@@outdoorsonthecheap How is it not? Belt versus neck is 💯 preference

High prices. Verry high shipping.

I think Dave's main prob with Cody was the bare feet - and I can't blame him for that :)

do you mean blade width : handle width?

I agree, same reason I point a weapon down , My knives are dangerously sharp.

My friend died this year from carrying a knife on his neck

@@ernestdurante4653 Sorry to hear that , too dangerous. I'd rather be safe than look cool myself.

Thanks man

Ironically, Ranger survival has an affiliate page for... wait for it... self reliance outfitters - Dave Canterbury's gear store :)

I love the BPS. Basically a better Mora.

Bps is great far superior to mora. The sheaths are trash though. It's too fine of leather and the knife can poke through easily. The same with beavercraft. Which is just as good as bps. But the same fine thin leather used for the sheaths

@@outdoorsonthecheap thank you

​@geraldwilliams497 some BPS Sheaths are a little on the fine side and some like the BPS B1 are quite thick it would take a sledge hammer to start it through. I have some of both. Prefer the thick one.

You can also fall down and hit your head on a rock from just walking - or have a car accident from driving - in fact those are probably more likely. You still walk and drive ( I imagine) despite those risks - yet you are concerned about this far lesser risk. I don't get it. A belt knife s near your groin and femoral artery... for some reason these are less vital?

@@outdoorsonthecheap Let me change it, "If it can happen, it has." Look it up. Your driving example is a strawman argument. A belt knife is not near your femoral artery unless you are carrying it over your fly.

Aye, i carry my dirk in the front( groin carry), if it happens, so be it.

Awesome! Thank you!

Even if you were bare-chested it would be fine.

I think the one is arguably more functional than the other - Dave himself said that it's handy around camp (when he's using a knife often) to have it around the neck. If they are equally functional neck or belt - why does he switch?

I keep a very similar pocket knife around town, don't don't consider that adequate for taking along in the bush. Sheesh mine is practically mint - what on earth do you have in your pockets.

I am always leaning over machinery and other hip high things. I need to buy a belt knife pouch for my new SAK Huntsman that I just ordered.@@outdoorsonthecheap

Yes I'm talking about being in the woods. EDC is another conversation.

Sure, you were a tradesman and you like stuff around your waist - can't argue with that. I speak to arguments, not people right to a preference. It doesn't flop around if you tuck it in your shirt, and it doesn't get caught up on things - as I explained in the video. My neck knife is a full tang knife with a 4" blade. The notion that a knife that has a 4" blade can't be a survival knife is a sales pitch man. It's an upsell - to get people to buy bogger knives that they can only carry at the waist. I don't think its any more safe and secure at the waist than around the neck. Ands it's no problem in the summer.

​@@outdoorsonthecheap What do you do in the summer when you're wearing a t-shirt? Is it tucked behind the t-shirt rubbing against your raw skin while you're engaged in activities? How do you wear it in the winter "if" you have a heavier coat to go over your shirt? Is it readily available and convenient to pull out from behind your coat or anorak or do you wear it on the outside of a heavy coat? As far as a knife size for survival goes, I literally blasted through the Pathfinder Basic Survival course with a sub-4" BHK Bushcrafter for my knife. However, again, me being a tool guy, I completely agree that a knife bigger than 4" is the more intelligent choice. I had to work unnecessarily harder than I needed to and all because of -1". The reasoning behind the 5" preference in a blade size is that a 4" sapling is considered the standard for many survival tasks (accessing dry wood if necessary, shelter construction, implement building, etc...). Besides, carrying an extra inch of knife blade isn't going to cause any full grown man some kind of hemorrhaging or severe loss of consciousness or burn 27% more calories. It's nothing. That's like someone leaving behind Bic lighter because they already have a ferro rod & magnifying lens & bow drill set. It's unnecessarily making things harder on themselves. A truly competent woodsman wouldn't even need a knife in the woods. The woods are strewn with natural cutting implements already (bone, wood, stone, etc...). There is no upsell to an extra inch of knife. It's not $100 more than a 4" knife. One's belt is the safest place one could carry their knife. Around their neck, it CAN get caught up in brush depending on the activity they're involved in (especially being hunkered down). I have my knife rigged in a way so that it's impossible to come out of it's sheath (along with my ferro rod) even if I tumbled down a mountain from some freak accident. If I had a knife tucked in a button-downed shirt, there's a much better chance of it becoming dislodged and hitting me in the face on my way down or worst, it dragging on debris. That's not an opinion, but just physics. For me to lose my knife, I'd have to lose my pants and if I'm without pants in the woods, I have MUCH bigger problems than not having a knife and something's really gone seriously wrong at that point. Also, me being a woodsman (at least a wannabe woodsman), I don't even need a knife to survival in the woods. I've spent many a sub-freezing night sleeping on the ground without a fire because I dressed right for the task (which was hunting). Opinions and preferences are fine and I never argue them. I only argue objective facts based solely on physics. I've LITERALLY been in survival situations (plural) and when they come (and they do come if one is out & about long enough), for me personally and objectively speaking for anybody else on the planet, MORE advantage is ALWAYS better than less advantage. Nobody has ever been worse off because they had more of the gear that they needed at the precise time that they needed it. Because as we all know, the more you know, the less you leave behind (not the less you carry). The overwhelming majority (at least according to my SAR [Search And Rescue] training) of recoveries in the wilderness are of victims that didn't have enough stuff on them. The mentality that 1" is going to make any significant difference in the woods (in either direction) is based solely on speculation. The man who can't carve a spoon or tweak a fishing hook out of bone with a 5" knife is theory, not reality. I've carved a spoon with a 10" Junglas and I've batoned 8" logs with my 4" knives. I'd rather have more knife than need than more need than knife. Also, I'm pretty sure that carving spoons isn't a survival priority. I've NEVER gone on a job site with "less" than what I could possibly need because it's always better to have something that you might need and not use (like a First Aid Kit or a Personal Locator Beacon or a back-up knife for example) than to have the need arise and you not have it and have to resort to starting to improvise tools in the field that will not perform as good as something that was specifically engineered to perform that task... ...but at this point, I'm just beating the proverbial dead horse, ain't I? But then again, I'm no survivalist. I don't need to test myself or do more with less. I'm just a wannabe woodsman. I want to go out there, have a safe time and come back home to be ready for work on Monday so that I can continue to provide for my loved ones (which is the real reality in life). Either way, if all I have is a knife, I'm not in survival mode anymore...I'm just going to be getting home later than expected. If I didn't have anything, but the clothes on my back, then I'd be survivaling but if I have a knife? Well, I'm rough camping at that point because I'll have easier means to build a shelter (not that I need a knife for that) or make a fire (not that I need a knife for that) or look for edibles (not that I need a knife for that) 😊

The vid wasn't a 5" knife vs 4" knife vid - though I do have one of those. Short version of the argument in that video - I find the 4" blade better for most "knife" things, and the 5" a bit clumsy. The 5" is also a bit big for wearing on the neck, and I like having it around the neck for all the reasons I lay out in my "why the neck knife video. Look man you took his course, and are clearly willing to spend way more on knives than me, so I think we just come at these things differently. I also spent a number of years in the trades, wearing a tool belt - but in the woods I use my knife a lot and find it handy to have on my neck - and very hard to lose. A lost belt knife is a useless belt knife. And all the risks you listed associated with a neck knife are infinitesimally small. Simply falling down and hitting your head is far more likely, but I doubt that keeps you or anyone else out of the woods.

​@@outdoorsonthecheap "Look man you took his course, and are clearly willing to spend way more on knives than me, so I think we just come at these things differently." Yeah, took Basic twice with him, spent a week at his yearling gathering for another 30 or so hours of training and he literally invited me to his deer camp for a one-on-on session where he taught me to hunt. I got to walk his trapline with him and got shown how to dispatch and process a raccoon. As for what I spend on a knife, I get them based on what they offer. Cost doesn't matter to me. I got knives that cost 25 cents in a thrift store and a few customs that cost more my truck payment. But in the end, it's not what they cost that determine how good they are. And imagine if you gave Dave the same deference you just gave me for coming at things differently? 😉 "And all the risks you listed associated with a neck knife are infinitesimally small. Simply falling down and hitting your head is far more likely, but I doubt that keeps you or anyone else out of the woods." Infinitesimally small, but they wouldn't exist if one didn't hang a cutting tool around their neck. It's a voluntary risk where falling on your head is unavoidable because we have to walk. 😂

"CANEX commando" I haven't hear that - but it's a good one :) Thanks man - this channel was created for guys like you ...and long-winded comments are welcome :)

Again, tucked in the shirt - not a problem. This strangling thing is driving me nuts. I'd be dead a 100 times over if this was even a fraction of the risk that everyone seems to think it is.

I have a silky Gomboy which I've found is actually a bit big for what I look for in firewood. It would be better justified for building a small log cabin. Lately I stow an Opinel 5" saw in the slim pocket of either my helikon tex, or Fjallraven pants. I find myself using a saw more than a hatchet. saves weight, doesn't scare off animals or use as much energy for most of my tasks.

Silky's are not cheap that's for sure.

I never wear anything that can strangle me as well.

Thanks 👍

He based the approach on what he saw indigenous people doing - I assume because he considered them to be the experts.

Not when it comes to STDs

🤣🤣🤣🤣

I also bring along a pocket knife always

Yes - but I don't think they are as robust and reliable as a lanyard.

The skookum is $200 so despite my love for Mors - I just can't shell out that kinda money. Knife is a BPS Knives BS3. They were sold from Ukraine before the war for about $30 shipping incl - full tang carbon steel. Identical to Mora Companion but full tang.

I completely understand. I ordered the Skookum Bust Tool in 2008 when I had some money.

@@WilliamDavis-lf5bq Look at it this way , If you have to you can drop it ,, otherwise it's there If you need it . Bushcraft is about crafting from the Bush what you need to survive in the Bush . You will have all the tools you need.

@@WilliamDavis-lf5bq No I meant the extra weight of the tools in an emergency , otherwise you have them If you need to craft things in the Bush . I prefer hip carry with a knife. My knife is to sharp to handle anywhere near my throat or chest . Like you I can't stand jewelry are things around my neck. Safer and easier to reach on the hip . I wouldn't baton my knife unless is was an emergency situation.

No - that really wasn't the point.

@@outdoorsonthecheap Then what was the point because point or not that's the way it came across. To me there wasn't a very good argument for not wearing it on your belt either. But in the end to each his own really.

He made two arguments for why he doesn't like neck knives - I explained why those arguments don't make sense. If it came across any other way, then you're inferring things beyond what I said.

@@outdoorsonthecheap Ok but all that really matters is that it makes sense to him right? He pretty much just stated why he didn't like something. You stated he didn't make sense. You could have just made a video about what you like about the neck knife option. Instead you called him out by name based on his opinion vs your own. I gotta ask, we're you trying to cause a stir or using his name to bring you viewer? Just trying to make sense of it all.

"Ok but all that really matters is that it makes sense to him right?" - No - it matters that things people say make sense objectively - especially if they are survival instructors, and especially if thousands of people make decisions about what to buy based on what they say . I did not call him out based on his opinion, I spoke to his argument. An argument is not an opinion. I spoke to his (poor) argument because many people buy things based on his advice - and I think he was giving poor advice based on the argument he presented in the video. I made the video for the reasons stated above - not to "cause a stir".

The forest is not an industrial setting. It's a false premise.

Nor did I say it was, neither was my desk job in the service. Sorry but the dangers of wearing anything around your neck or fingers apply where-ever you are whether you're in the woods or anywhere else, it is just an inconvenient truth, not a false premise. It is a matter of personal choice, and I stated mine and to be clear you or anyone else is free to do as they wish, that said I know of more than one person who lived to regret the choice you have made. Again, if I choose to wear a neck knife it will be on a ball chain. @@outdoorsonthecheap

I must be in perpetual danger, and have been for years.

Perhaps you didn't catch the movie were Clint Eastwood said that tomorrow is promised to no one or perhaps you think you are invincible, but yes you are in danger always just like everyone else, people die every day from the most innocent and seemingly harmless things, but nothing will ever happen to you and that's what they thought too. Again, you are intitled to think and do as you wish as is everyone else, but no one is invincible, not even you. And again, if I choose to wear a neck knife it will be on a ball chain, is that all right with you?@@outdoorsonthecheap

This vid really wasn't about the question of what's the best knife - but this one was: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-cPXBBdl9N5Y.html&lc=UgzpLhn_kaspFDROhV94AaABAg

@@outdoorsonthecheap sorry, I guess I wasn't clear in my message. What I was trying to say is there really isn't a right or wrong way to carry something or make something. It all depends on how you train or what works best for you. The best thing I think folks like you can do is present your ideas on why you like to do something "This Way" and not another way. Then let anyone who decides to watch your video and others on how they want to handle a task or carry. I hope this is clearer towards my point. Probably not but thats why I am not a writer or video maker. :-)

BPS Knives BS3. They were sold from Ukraine before the war, for about $30 shipping incl - full tang carbon steel. Identical to Mora Companion but full tang.

I don't understand what you're calling backwards. Also - re'; the sweating thing - have been carrying a carbon steel blade around my neck for decades in a very rainy part of the world. It's a ridiculous concern.

@@outdoorsonthecheap Look at 21.48 minutes in the video. I'm pretty sure your knife is in the sheath backwards meaning the edge is in the wrong direction in the sheath. If you live in a wet part why choose a carbon steel on your small camp knife you also use for food prep for instance? What's the benefit? Stainless steel is just as good but takes a lot less maintenance and combined with a plastic sheath almost no maintenance at all. So why a carbon steel in a leather sheath? Let's say you butcher a chicken or gut a fish. Do you put the knife back in the sheath without cleaning? How do you clean the inside of the leather sheath? If your leather sheath gets really soaked by heavy rainfall or river crossings how do you dry it? You can dry the knife and oil the blade (you need to bring a cloth and oil) just to put it back in a wet and dirty leather sheath. With a stainless steel knife in a plastic sheath it doesn't matter if the combination is used in salt water, used for butchering some game or gutting some fish, doesn't matter if the inde of the plastic sheath gets dirty from putting the knife back between chores. All you do is clean both knife and sheath with fresh water and you're done. I've 'backpacked' both Colombia and Thailand and you're soaked all the time either from rain or sweat.

Somehow the knife is still in tact, despite all the risks you are worried about. The idea that you need to bring a special cloth and oil is ridiculous. You use it, and wipe it off on whatever. If it gets really wet, you dry it out when you are able. Carbon steel, for the money, holds a better edges than stainless, and is easier to keep sharp. Carbon steel and leather is what real outdoors people used for hundreds of years. It's really not problem.

@@outdoorsonthecheap Carbon steel doesn't hold a better edge or is easier to sharpen. These are fairy tails. The qualiticitations have to do with the hardness of the steel and not if it's carbon or stainless steel. Carbon steel is cheaper. That's it. For sure they used carbon steel knives and leather sheaths for a long time because there were no other options. They would also ride horses because the car was not invented yet. Should we all now get rid of our car and buy a horse? What do you mean with 'real outdoors people'? I never said you can't use a carbon steel blade with a leather sheath but it takes a lot more maintenance. If the leather sheath gets really wet it stays wet for days. The leather will stretch, in hot wet climates it will rot, your dry carbon steel inside the wet sheath will still rust. Patina is also surface rust. Cut an onion or a lemon and you will see the grey of the blade rubbing off on the onion or lemon, etc. Compare this to a stainless steel Mora Companion in the plastic sheath and you have none of these 'problems'. Why don't you respond on putting the knife in backwards? You asked and I gave you the time in the video where it's very clear and now you don't mention it?

Not sure what you mean - backwards? I like to put it in with the spine towards my left shoulder - is that backwards?

It's funny - I think "personal preference" is the most commonly used phrase in the comments section. I never said people can't do whatever they want. Of course - anyone can do whatever they want. But it's funny that I point out how his only two reasons don't make sense - and then everyone goes on and on about personal preference. If Dave had made a video called, "everyone should do whatever they want for whatever reasons feel good to them personally - I'd have nothing to talk about.

@@outdoorsonthecheap I never meant to imply you said people should only do as you say. I was just saying that I agree with you on the accessibility of neck knives, I have tried larger neckers, and it is just not what works for me.