RESPONSE to DEALERS ARE SELLING OUT - Kevin Baxter - Pro Twin Performance 

Anyone who knows who you are would know you are a person at the top of your game and knowledge.

Kevin you mention a major word. Respect. Since the invention of social media respect is something that has left our society. Lack of face to face conversations

Thank you for making this response video. Another point I have strong feelings about is that we should be supporting our small local American motorcycle repair shops who have years and years of real world experience, have access to huge catalogs of aftermarket parts and are just trying to get by doing what they love doing. And no....i am not a shop owner. Lol. Keep up the great videos Kevin!!

Doc Harley is the best!! My dealership goes back 20 years thank goodness.

Good info. As a private shop owner I wish we could get better support from Harley to fill the void on working on the older bikes.

Guys everyone needs to remember that there is a difference between a mechanic and a trained Technician awesome video and I just want to add this man I one of the best motorcycle technicians in the business if you can’t speak with intelligence don’t speak listen and learn

Telling it like it should be said. Respect, appreciation, and Prayers Up for you Kevin. Two thumbs up sir.

Putting a car tire on a motorcycle is the dumbest thing you could ever do.

Im 67, still ride my H.Ds, had 34 of them and have worked on all of them myself. (just a little background)....You are of course and as usual, 100% correct. No matter who the "content" maker is, there is always a percentage of "haters". I have watched you from the beginning and have loved everything you have posted. Thanks o'l mate, I've learned a lot.... Cheers.

Hello Kevin. The realities you expressed are global across all industries. I was a service engineer before I transitioned into sales. My customers chartered flights to get me to their plants to work on their equipment. The reality was there was an earning ceiling. So I moved on. Many great technicians also moved on. Some opened their own businesses. Good techs are hard to find and retain. I ended up selling my 2020 and getting a new bike. I lost 2 engines to sumping. Their best engine mechanic, a really great guy, did not have the tools to test the oil squirters. He just kept replacing the pistons and cylinders. I could “rant” on. I really learned a lot from you and I am very thankful for the knowledge you share. Please accept my deepest appreciation for what you’re doing and I hope you will continue.

Kevin, you are one of the most knowledgeable people I have had the privilege of listening to. NEVER have heard you say a word that didn't make sense.

Agreed. Respect and kindness are getting lost in current society. Why can’t we agree to disagree, yet remain friends? Heard it a lot as a kid, but seldom any more , “there’s always two sides to a story”.

Kevin, I'm a new watcher to the channel and I appreciate the time, effort and knowledge you put out for all to see and learn. To the point of Harley dealerships working on older bikes. It would be no different than trying to take a 1970 Chevy nova to a dealership to have a tune up done. Yes there may be a tech there that could do it but that would be far and few between. The technologies of today are so far advanced that if you can't hook it up to a diagnostic machine, most places wouldn't even think about attempting this relativity easy procedure. Gone are the days of breaking out the timing light and turning the distributor to advance or retard timing. It's all done through a computer now and that is the kind of thing that is being taught to students in today's world of automotives. So I get it.

I totally agree. If I took my 77 FXE to a dealer and was told they didn't work on stuff that old I might not be happy about not getting it fixed but I'd be glad they didn't say they could and make a small problem worse. As far as selling bikes they can't work on. Buy a 70's Honda and see if the local dealer can fix it. And how many used car lots do you see that don't even have a shop. You don't hear people raising hell about them. Good video, maybe some people might think before they lose their minds over nothing

Kevin, thank you so much for everything you do for all of us. I’m a 76 year old DIY er who built my first motorcycle ( balloon tire bike w/springer front with a 3 1/2 hp engine) @ 13 w/ help from a aviation master machinist. I work on and still ride both my 09 Sportster, 11 Softail. I’m very knowledgeable (to a point and still learning) with electrical and mechanical that was my trade all my life. What I’m getting at is I have some friends like some of your responders that think they’re right and your wrong period. There’s plenty of A holes to go around, I just consider the source and move on. Thanks again so much for all you do' Joe R.

I worked in an automotive machine shop in the early '80s. I was in my late teens. We worked on everything including stuff that was from the early 20th century. !930s Chrysler straight 8 comes to mind. Machining and making those things work was often ad-lib and required a bunch of thought and skill. I had the skill and absolutely loved working on things like that. But, the pay was terrible. My conscience forced me to make the work good but in the end the pay was terrible. I left the machine shop biz because I really did not like not being able to afford the motorcycle I lusted after(at the time it was an FJ1000). Same thing for every business. The charter is really to make money. It is better to set aside the things that lose money from a survival standpoint. But oh lord, it was fun working on those things that didn't make money. It just felt good.

Kevin, your first video was spot on. Keep up the good discussions. As far as those disrespectful commenters……..”comments drive the algorithm” Casey LaDelle

Thanks for the videos. I find them very informative and appreciate all the content. Don't let the know it all people get you down thanks again for taking all the time to make your videos

Very well done Mr. Baxter. I am learning a large part of what makes a successful shop in this businesses, is the communication and sense to know when to pass on certain types of work. You sir are without a question the most professional I’ve seen in this industry. Thank you for sharing . God bless .

Found it very informative. I was kind if up set when i heard dealers were not working on 10 year and old bikes. This put a clearer view to why they do that. Thanks for the info.

Everybody wasn't so litigious back in the day, but my dad, uncle, and his friends were putting British sports car wheels on the back of their panheads and knuckleheads choppers. They were lacing the rims up to the stock Hub so they could run that huge tire which I believe was 15".

thanks Kevin, Your perspective is appreciative and as a guy who has been doing all his own work for 40 years (motors, trans, welding & had a shop in the late 70 & early 80ies, You are right on. Thank you for explaining it to the Masses.

Well, you were right on the last video, and this one, too! Thank you for all you do.

Every bike I have bought I got the shop manual when I got the bike for the reason. Latest bike is a 2023 Harley and the basic engines are not that hard to work on. The electronics are the kicker, in California we can't get some of the tools like the tuner so the work around is and parts set to my sons house in AZ. Good video..

I thank you for being who you are. I have been a mechanic for 30+years from industrial to automotive, motorcycles. I have gone to trade school for metal trades in welding and machining one and two. With that said I would not own a Harley-Davidson. I have friends who had an enormous amount of problems With their Harley-Davidsons. I am a Honda motorcycle owner. Never had any major problems rode them over 80,000 miles+. Just kept up on my preventive maintenance. I like your work you do is outstanding.

i did the conversion and also still run the mm. i have a good tuner...Peace,..

Thank You Kevin, I remember my comment about integrity and dealerships admitting lack of skilled techs is understandable. Folks, dealerships stay afloat on the backs of their mechanics and service people. The sales staff from clothing to new bikes do not bring in enough revenue to keep a dealership solvent and those people won't be wrenching on your scoot. I'm a third generation Irish American mutt and what I was raised from the family farm to the family members club affiliation to have integrity be self sufficient and respectful. That said I don't believe HD is what it used to be so I maintain my " antique" Harley's and Indian for my joy and riding. If you want more than a current dealer offers why don't you fork over the money for a custom one of a kind scoot that makes you happy. With Love and Respect Mr. Baxter, you are in my prayers Hoka Hey

You are a wise man and you are taking logic with experience 👍

So much information and perspective in this video. I appreciate your experience and you sharing it.

The only thing that aggravated me on the dealership not working on my older bikes, I'm in a small town with no one close to work on older bikes. So far, my evo doesn't need any work. Had to haul my 09 200 miles to get it worked on. Dealer was only 100 miles away. Just inconvenience, and I'm pretty busy in my engine machine shop.

I differ on obdll. The computer is using its language to make one aware of a problem in an area of function. I have seen shops replace sensors. Same codes come up. Replace them again. Same, same. It visits me. I find all that was wrong was a dirty fuel filter. A bad air filter. A burnt valve instead of a spark plug. Having a functioning understanding of the system one is working on is still crucial.

Thank you Kevin! 👍👍🙏

I totally understand your position. However, I own a Livewire and just got rid of a Pan America. Most of the dealerships required there to be a Livewire and Pan America trained technician on hand. I think a successful dealership should also have an old school technician on hand. Riders still get on these old bikes and ride across the country. Also, many of the old knowledgeable technicians need a job. To me, it seems like a win-win to have one of these old school technicians available at every dealership. Especially at the prices they are charging for labor.

Kevin thank you for all the great information that you provide to heck with the rude folks

Thanks for your knowledge

I agree. Dealership I worked at part time had 3 techs with over 30 years experience. They would work on older bikes thru the slow times of the year. Winter time. Are the instructions on the m&m injection system available? That system reminds me of the vw system used back in the 70’s and early 80’s. After my 38 as an auto tech I do know my way around it. Thanks and always enjoy your videos.

Kevin you are a great wealth of knowledge, I have made my M8 upgrades that you talked about. Couldn't be happier with the results.

Kevin, you're awesome. Keep cranking out the great content. Hope to meet you in person someday, maybe have you rebuild one of my old twin cams.

Kevin - just 16 minutes in and I knew this was about dealers not able to get techs with deep enough experience to cover all HD models/years. HD should however have the ability to train on current and 1 prior engine model, and if instead they are only able to hire techs with limited skills they MUST stay in their lane. Profitability is another driver. Thanks for helping folks understand how you research. Ps - never hurts to do your video in front of a milling machine to lend credibility 😅. As an old biker living in Milwaukee I have the luxury of options for service/mods not available elsewhere.

Kevin, Mc tires are round, car tires are square. U r so right. Pls keep these opinions and facts fĺowing.

Hi Kevin I'm from Australia and have followed your content for years, I respect your mechanical talent, experience, knowledge and dedication to improving the motorcycle industry, I also respect your opinion even if I question it and this is the most important point here, Americans sometimes have to look at their constitution again and realize why its there and how hard it should be protected, Kevin is one of the good ones, look out for him and He'll look out for you.

Thanks!

Good response video, I went back through the comments and the variety was amazing. At least you didn't cancel people who disagree with you. Maybe people should learn how to do there own work where they can or shop around for a good Independent mechanic (Plenty of them around!). The other alternative is stay away from older bikes.

Thanks. Great information.

I like what you do and really appreciate it and you.

Man o man Kevin I have a small shop in Ohio and we go through these pains weekly with customers and yet still have a 5 star rating. You should mention about the lifetime warranty that most customers want it would be a good story to tell.

Awesome info..thank you

My dad told me - when I was a know it all teenager - that he would always be smarter than me because he knew that he didn't know everything. He then explained that if you already know everything, you'll never learn anything. He was a smart cookie. Sorry I missed your live thing! Would love to have a conversation with you. We do the same type thing, only I do a lot more older than newer, and..... your shop is CRAZY clean!!!! Great video, btw!

Appreciate your insight. And about the dealers, but there are some dealers do not want to stay behind a warranty on extended warranty have a lot of problems with that so I got the right dealership.

Kevin, I’m on your side here. We have a great Harley shop not hardly 2 miles from my house. I stop by quite frequently, and slobber all over the stuff in the showroom. I have been knowing most of the guys a long time, the service manager probably 20 yr. They are doing the 10 yr deal. I have a 94 FXDL, so that lets. Me out. He told me, that they can’t warranty after market parts, among other reasons. I will say, though, I needed a front tire. He told me if I brought him the wheel, he’d mount and balance a new tire, if I bought it from him. He just couldn’t do the whole job in his shop. I wanted to re pack the bearings anyway, so those guys will work with you, if they can. They all have their reasons. Great topic.

I have a 96 Tour Glide that had magnettie marelli on it before I switched to thundermax

Your videos are very informative and well presented. In saying that I am not sure why you felt the need to explain to the few what the majority saw as a well informed video. The same situation prevails in Australia. Dealers don’t work on bikes over 10 yrs old. This creates a thriving industry for the older bikes repairs and the dealer network will always help with parts. A service manual & RU-vid can help with basic servicing. Cheers from OZ 😎🇦🇺

I agree with you Kevin. Also you provide awesome content and I appreciate your shared knowledge you give us viewers.

100% agree with you. I ran my own business. There were plenty of jobs I could've taken and made REALLY good money on but they weren't 'in my lane' as you say. The customer would've been shortchanged and I didn't want that even though they'd spend weeks trying to talk me into it.

the only reason i go to a HD shop free coffee and dognuts...most good mech have to leave because they can work on the old bikes..you are correct...Peace

In addition to not having technicians skilled with older bikes there's also a problem in the industry of being unable to find technicians in general. Is my years of traveling around for Dynojet and doing training I often see that they are overwhelmed with bikes that are less than 10 years old and really don't have the time and as you say the skill to be able to work on the more vintage vehicles. In the distant past it was normal to walk into a franchise and see that they were equipped with a full machine shop for doing in-house engine rebuilds almost all the previous models but nowadays it's very rare to see a franchise dealer capable of doing engine machine work and even if they do have the equipment to do it most of those technicians have required years ago.

I have a 1987 Electraglide and a 1997 Superglide. I live in NYC there are so few independent places here. Some that are anywhere near are far enough that it is very hard to get there and back if you have to leave the bike. I am luck enough to have a shop about 25 miles from me but when you have to leave it its hard. NYC H-D id close but they won't work on my bikes.

Keven, I understand your position. Boat shops will not work on a boat that is older than 10 years.

All good points 👍

Very cool. I'd work at your shop for free just to gather a fraction of your knowledge. Thank you for sharing your wisdom to us mere mortals and the world. It would be cool to meet you someday.

My thoughts on this topic is most car dealer won't sell a car that they won't won't work on . My problem isn't with harley dealerships, I've had about enough with corporate. My 13 cvo ultra sat for a year waiting on jugs . So worked out a deal with my dealer (he did me well) and bought a 23 ultra. I wanted a simple cigarette lighter that's back order 3 months. Talking to some of our HOG guys they are having similar problems. Corporate needs to step up and get better suppliers. Yes I do know it's not just harley. I have had the same problem with paccar semi builders. Thank you for listening to my rant .

Damn’ right Kev! Reminds me of a famous Zappa auote:”There is more stupidity than hydrogen in the universe and it has a longer shelf life” 🤣😎🤘🏼

Well said, great day to be alive.

Fair and good point - if you can’t say anything nice - then don’t say anything at all 😉👍🏻

God bless America🇺🇸 Hope we can keep it.

I have no issue with the dealerships not working on my 2006 EGC. I realize they have to move on as the newer equipment takes over. Although I don’t consider myself a mechanic, I’ve purchased tools, shop manual, parts catalog and learned to do most things myself. When I bought a new bike back in 2012 I had nightmare experiences with service and repair reliability and concluded that with the lack of quality of mechanics; I couldn’t do any worse. Also I’ve found small shops that can do the work I don’t want to do or have time to do. By the way I finally decided to rebuild the bike and have replaced every bearing,seal and wear parts to make my 2006 virtually a new motorcycle.

What Siad in the video made a lot of sense to me if the tech,s aren't familiar with the older bikes , or don't know how to work on the older bikes then they probably shouldn't.

Recently l was on a road trip on my 2016 trigllde and my coolant pump wet out in rapid city SD went to black hills. HD l had the extended warranty they fix it but told me if my trike was 10yrs old or older they would have worked on it! So why have a extended warranty or a hog membership for towing to a HD dealership. Called the motor Co. AND THEY TOLD ME THE same thing .what do you thnk?

We are facing serious problems, in this day and age. Our functional literacy and numeracy rates have fallen to dangerous levels. This has brought with it increasing levels of ignorance but more troubling is that it makes it very difficult for a large percentage of the population to process information and become informed on a subject. We also find ourselves in a time in which there is a societal expectation to accept someone else's ignorance without prejudice.

Key board warrior....hate them. Please keep up the great work.

I agree with you. Great channel.

I agree with you the harley dealer business model of not working on motorcycles over 10 ten years old is the dealers choice. Most dealer ships are corporate owned and they own a lot of dealerships around the country. These dealerships do not pay their mechanics accordingly. They push out the experienced mechanics by reducing their pay raises. They figure that for the money they pay an experienced mechanic they could hire two inexperienced mechanics and double their hourly billing. I own a small motorcycle repair shop and like you it is a one man shop , I answer the phone, hunt down parts and am the only person working on the customers bike. I have been working on motorcycles since the late 70’s. I operate my motorcycle shop part time as I work full time as an aircraft mechanic and have done so for 45 years as an A&P mechanic. I agree with you on the lower requirements set by the schools I see new A&P mechanics coming into the industry not knowing how to use a multimeter or take critical measurements with a caliper or micrometer and I get the task of training them ad I am a certified trainer. The school certificate is now just a basic understanding and the motorcycle and aviation industry are left with completing the training, gone are the days when you as a child just wanted to hang out with your older brothers and help them remove car engines even it just meant handing them the wrong tool and gaining some knowledge. I applaud Harley’s dealerships not working on bikes over 10 years as it has kept my business growing. Troubleshooting a motorcycle that does not have an ecm that allows for a scanner to do the troubleshooting is almost art. Luckily I have alot of tribal knowledge that the new mechanics do not have. I have more years of knowledge than most new mechanics have on this planet. Harley just books the labor by time allotted, so if the job allots 3 hours and they do it in 1 hour they bill for 3 hours. I bill by the hour as you do not know who’s hands have been into the bike and what they have done, I tell the customer up front that I bill by the hour and I do not provide quotes. If the customer insists on a quote I tell them maybe I am not the shop they want working on their bike. I tell them quality is not cheap and cheap is not quality. I provide photos and text messages showing and explaining work I am doing and what I am seeing. I do what I say and they see the processes. As far as the dark side using a car tire on a motorcycle in my humble opinion it should not be done and I will not do it at my shop as there are liability issues for a shop that does do it. As a person who might be looking to purchase a motorcycle over 10 years old, they should ask the dealer that are purchasing that bike from is will they repair it, but be aware that if that dealership is sold the new owner might chose to not work on it. But an independent motorcycle shop might work on it. Stop by your local independent shop and check out their shop and ask your questions you have. As with Harley there are good and bad shops. It is a different world we live in today. Being an educated consumer is the best advice I can give.

Good morning, Mrs Baxter. I love you video, no all Motorcycle, HD

Loved the rant!

10 yr old bike tho isn't really old. That's kinda normal age. Now 20 or 30 years.....those are getting old. But 10 years?! That's not old at all and it would be nice if dealerships would work on these bikes. But yeah you make some good points. My 16 yr old Harley Crossbones sat for years and I wanted to get it running again. The aftermarket products saved me some money but they've also cost me money due to poor implementations. They had missing or wrong sized o-rings, gaskets that leaked and weren't even built up to Harley specifications. Learning experience for me but replacing some of those aftermarket parts ended up costing me more in the end. NOT overall cost for the project but more individual part prices. Anyways - sad to hear that even in a mid-sized US city like Oklahoma City, the dealerships are starting to limit the work to newer models.

Well said Kevin !!!!!!!

Kevin you should take a day or two off and get out of the shed and go for a ride cheers matey a little rnr can prevent burn out,I had a little business, and worked 13 months 18 hr days, and was unaware I was in burn out and it nearly cost me my life,

12 years ago here's a shop that did take and repair my bike but they didn't they broke stuff and they didn't even repair it... Yet they said they could repair it I would have been better off if they were honest and said no we can't repair your bike we only do two strokes... But they wanted that quick 90 bucks tried to adjust my ignition which they had no idea what it was... In the end I had to learn how to do it and I did learn how to do it myself and I'll do it from now on... So I'd rather have a dealership that says no weed that's out of our wheelhouse...

Teach it brother

I am an aircraft and helicopter mechanic and I have had owners doing much the same thing you are talking about. Bike tires are necessary to be used on bikes period.

I only deal with cycle shops heck with the dealers as far I'm concerned you get more personal service better service

Mate, I totally agree with what you have said in this video. There are so many keyboard cowboys on the net who have been there and done that ( supposedly). I’ve been attacked over comments I’ve made on certain sites. When I get told I’m wrong I think to myself “ there was only 4 people with me on the day something happened. I don’t seem to remember there being 100’s of people there lol”.

Dealers working on old vehicles is a money losing proposition. If customers were willing to pay for actual labor time, they might be shocked. Rated parts, customer mods, accessories, worn-out fasteners, and stripped threads and parts availability. And then the unhappy and frustrated customers creating problems. I went through the s hool Kevin mentioned, I think. Back in the 80's. It was actually tough. 2700 hours. Mostly, my dime. I was never late or absent. I worked in the industry as a PHD HD Tech at H D dealers. I was a HONDA Pro tech also. I was a service manager, writer, and warranty administrator. I know the numbers, reps, and warranty departments at the oems. If you've never been around it you have no idea the day to day challenges. I recall an old bike wired with lamp cord and romex with wire nuts. Things get weird fast. Kevin is accurate.

I encourage and enjoy people's opinions who disagree with me. When someone disagrees with me, my response is simple: I'm listening.

Keven, 20 years ago the owner at the Honda dealer. Ask me if they could send customers to me that had old dirt bikes to be worked on.. they said at the current labor rate was too much to work on an old bike. Back then, it wasn’t the skill of the mechanic as much as it was the labor rate to repair. It was gonna be more than what the bike was worth.

Why would you put a car tire on a motorcycle, seriously. I can't figure out a reason except maybe save a few bucks. I've had a flat spotted motorcycle tire before, and it handled like total crap.

This man is one of the best get over it 😊

Great video, I couldn't agree more.

U have the patience of a saint.

Back in the 'olden days,' I guess there wasn't so much difference between a car tire or a bike tire. They both seemed to use those tall skinny tires, like you see on a model T Ford. But today... The fabrication of tires for cars has been undergoing an evolution for decades. They used to be made from natural rubber. Now they are mostly synthetic compounds, and mostly used an innertube. Back then there wasn't any such thing as a "tubeless tire." And then, things began to change. From tubed, to tubeless tires, using nylon chords, to steel belted. From basic treads, to all season radials. The rims changed, and went from spoked steel rims, "on cars," to solid steel rims, then to the tubeless rims that could hold an airtight bead. And then, everything today has gone from steel rims, to aluminum casting. Tire beads, to fit airtight on the rims, underwent changes, to meet the standards of the industry. And now... You want to take THAT tire, and fit it to a motorcycle rim, and expect it to work perfectly? And even as bike tires have since, gone tubeless, a motorcycle tire bead, is made to fit the rim on a bike. A car tire isn't. I'm a dummy! But even I can understand that car tires may not fit as intended on a bike rim. It was never meant to! I don't even know if there's a market, with "crossover," tires, that can be mounted either way. Car tires are made differently, they are shaped differently. To just ignore the entire tire industry, to do what YOU want, will only end in you in traction, or in a box!

I was a little perturbed when they refused to work on my 2001 EGC. carburetor. But after thinking about it, I still see my bike as new. Thinking if I go back 23 years from 2001 I'm looking at AMF BIKES. That's a head turner. As for dumbing down the training is an DEI bull crap and laziness of the new generation. It's not gonna get better. Watched a guy get the new 2024 bike and he's had it in the shop 3 times in a month. All kind of electronic issues. I would of asked for my money back, but he's gonna stick it out. Pretty brave on his part. Thanks Kevin, great video

Hello from California

Well, said my friend

Unfortunately dealers are not only subjected to corporate doctrine concerning profits on a quarterly basis, their main objective is the sale of new models. Service & parts are considered a necessary evil to sell more motorcycles. Parts inventory is now computerized nationwide and algorithms maintain that shelf space is premium. If a normally stocked part is not selling the dealer has the option of returning the part back for credit on inventory that maintains an accepted level of tracked sales. Dealers are encouraged to maintain moving inventory that actually sells. This happens each week when a stock order is placed to Harley. This is not just motorcycles. It has been in place since the mid nineties in all the automotive industries. Cars, trucks, semis. even heavy equipment. These days, it simply isn’t considered profitable for dealers to provide service and parts for any vehicle older than ten years. Try your local Ford, Chevy, Mopar or whatever brand of vehicle to have your “vintage” vehicle repaired…..be prepared for their response… Some very good points brought out in this video. People tend to forget…… We are all still in this together !!

Isnt a 2011 bagger the same as a 2016?

Hello Kevin ☺️

Kevin is one of the most knowledgeable mechanics/ builder/ machinist on the interwebs in my humble opinion. That being said jumping on him for saying something you don't agree with is an emotional response. Check your emotions and control yourself. Don't be a weirdo.

Trying to save a buck comes with a price tag. Be sure you want to pay it.

I wish you were in my area. I would definitely like to have you work on my bike. Where are you located. Larry Bailey from Kentucky

At the boat shop, they will not work on a boat that’s more than 10 years old, their theory is when you work on an old boat it’s like opening Pandora’s box. You tell the customer your estimate of repair will be $1000 when the mechanic gets into it 🎉they find the repair is going to cost $1800 so when they call the customer for the added 800 they get pissed and you know where it goes from there.