Reverend Michael Dowd discusses his journey on collapse with Prof Bendell and guests

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Michael Dowd is known today for his leadership in the realm of “post-doom," which his website defines as: "A fierce and fearless reverence for life and expansive gratitude - even in the midst of abrupt climate mayhem and the runaway collapse of societal harmony, the health of the biosphere, and business as usual."
“Post doom, no gloom," Dowd suggests, is the stage of the grief cycle beyond mere "acceptance." Three years after posting on youtube his first "postdoom conversation" (with Shaun Chamberlin), the site now offers a total of 85 - including a conversation with me in March 2020. Michael has also posted more than a dozen of his own, information-dense videos to serve as a crash course for understanding our global predicament, with special attention to "ecological overshoot, the already decades-long collapse of thermo-industrial civilization, and how it is still possible to live life fully and love the life you live."
Dowd's personal journey is from Roman Catholic upbringing, to evangelical student, to liberal protestant minister, and now his own brand of “post-doom pastor". His mentors include Thomas Berry (1914-2009), whose inspirational writings on the evolutionary epic turned Dowd into a religious naturalist in 1988, followed by Dowd's first book in 1991, Earthspirit: A Handbook for Nurturing an Ecological Christianity. In 2015, Dowd became an acolyte of the originator of environmental sociology - a mentor he would never meet. Two weeks after William Catton died, Michael encountered Catton's 1980 book on a recommendation by John Michael Greer. Overshoot: The Ecological Basis of Revolutionary Change, is the book Dowd credits for his shift away from climate activism into the final stages of the grief cycle, culminating in, what he calls, “post doom, no gloom collapse trust and love-in-action".
The Q&A will cover topics such as:
1. How Dowd sees collapse, ecocide, and possible NTHE as “religious failure”.
2. How he shifted from evolutionary evangelism into his “post doom, no gloom” work.
In addition, towards the end there is a discussion on the role of activism, and the focus of such.
Resources mentioned:
Michael Dowd's website www.thegreatstory.org
Just Collapse www.justcollapse.org
Collapse acceptance / @collapseclub

Опубликовано:

31 окт 2022

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Комментарии : 59

@chaz0matic Месяц назад

Beyond Collapse Acceptance as if all we have to do is just accept the reality of our time …. But what does that thought do to our mental balance? Our feelings. So many people are surrounded by terrible brutal wars or terrible nearly unlivable heat! My feelings of gratitude and my good fortunes to live in my calm corner of the world and prayers to continue with my good lucky situation.

@biorage6670 7 месяцев назад

His recent sudden passing at 64 years old is really hard to accept. You will be missed Michael but not forgotten!

@jamestiburon443 5 месяцев назад

What a live soul. Years of study and spiritual growth. I learn from your videos. Thank you. MICHAEL

@timmanion2197 8 месяцев назад

It strikes me recently, in terms of “doom without gloom,” that there is a kind of peace in realizing that it’s the central questions that never change, over time, and culture to culture. What truly constitutes a good life? How do I find a way to live it? The Dine people speak of “walking in beauty:” how do I do this within myself, within my community, before the calm gaze of the Mother I came from and without a single doubt will return to? The circumstances in which we ask change, and change, and change again - and now present us with a situation terrifyingly unique in our history, but the question remains the same. In a strange way, the bone-deep, constant, north-star nature of the question renders inevitable collapse, profound hardship, even highly probable extinction….well….nothing special. Simply another set of circumstances in which good men and women face the challenge they have always faced, everywhere, in all times and places. How do I “walk in beauty” right here, right now? Nothing about the world we face together releases us - thankfully- from crafting the best, the most beautiful answer each of us can…. Nothing new. Nothing special. Chop wood. Carry water. Tote back a little extra for those who can’t…..

@peggygates6565 Год назад

Thanks to Michael and Jem, and to all who are willing to look deeply during these times. Do what you can, when you can, and be gentle with each other.

@hascleavrahmbenyoseph7186 10 месяцев назад

Politicians and big business representatives tell the public that the obstacle to correcting man-made climate change is that it is too expensive. This actually tells us what we must do in order to reverse man-made climate change. We must change what is meant by "economic expenses". The only way we can do that is by changing the definition of "profit". I know how: Profit = protecting and enriching the environment, and sharing the sustenance that it provides to all of us. With this new profit model, it is a major expense to ignore our main objective which is rebuilding a healthy environment. This new profit model would create millions of new jobs that will come under the heading "Caretakers of The Environment". Caretakers will receive higher wages for their work than most other workers. The problem with the old profit model "profit = income - expenses" is that it defines the entire environment, that also includes all of us, as expenses. Businesses today must avoid and or eliminate as many expenses as possible. This old profit model is the cause of most homelessness, and it is the core cause of man-made climate change. I'm a capitalist. I want my profit, just as you all do. The old profit model is causing us to burn down the bank i.e., the environment. Maybe our new slogan should be "Stop Burning Down The Bank"! It may already be too late to create this new global economic model, but it is never too late to try.

@slyborg1 Год назад

Dowd lives in reality. Being there is essential to mental, emotional, psychological, and physical health.

@slyborg1 Год назад

Thank you so much. It is so comforting to hear the truth, which is hard to find.

@chickenfootranch Год назад

Awesome conversation, thanks guys! We're Karen and Jordan Perry, have Post Doom conversations with Michael, as mentioned here. Just want to add that we think the only pathway to addressing the social justice horrors of GIC (global industrial civilization) is for many many MANY more people to get to Collapse Acceptance. Only then can the true responding to our predicament have a chance at supporting us (we include ALL life in "us") to collapse well.

@jennysteves Год назад

I follow Michael Dowd and have learned so much from him. I’m forever grateful to him for sharing his personal journey and his carefully gleaned knowledge as he’s progressed through many years of personal growth and pain to collapse acceptance. This interview felt different. More frantic, somehow. I so get that. He’s a precious soul doing his best, as we all are. I’m certain he is now thinking deeply about these critical Southern Hemisphere issues. Etc. This brilliant and wonderful man continues to learn. I hope we can all humbly say the same. I’m way, way behind him, quietly following along on our shared human path toward growth and understanding. Personally, I need more of the sacred as we move into this new phase of widespread acknowledgment of collapse. And what I mean by that is deeper meaning. I know this is where Michael and his wife so beautifully already are. But I need more. More of the sacred to connect with current, future and past strands of faith to help me to go deeper. Back to both foundation and future. I’m so beyond traditional Protestant / Catholic /Christian proclamations of faith. They all weary me. We need all faiths, all of them. We need deep. I hope we can all choose to go deeper, which always opens us to the wider. And of course this always means that we may be at last ready to delve deeper into our own personal selves. To the paradox of Strength/Surrender and being there/letting go. Our meaning and purpose and destiny - how can we begin to understand ... I think we were all born here to witness and honor and appreciate, and to ultimately and always choose Love.

@sultanbev Год назад

Michael Dowd always ahead of the curve. Faboluous discussion.

@KaizenTrainingLtd Год назад

Thank you Michael and Jem - a really important conversation

@ronaldkable 11 месяцев назад

Thank you, such a great discussion. I'm absolutely there, living with gratitude, joy, awe and engagement, and with post-doom collapse acceptance

@user-gf3lw5pi4t 8 месяцев назад

RIP Michael❤

@gerrijacobs8426 Год назад

Thank you Michael & Jem. I appreciated this conversation. I certainly have post-doom acceptance, but was waiting for the points that Jessica brought up. My serenity has been shattered for most of this year at the prospect of imperialist “rulers” bringing nuclear war to the world, which would destroy so much life.

@oneirishpoet Год назад

Yep I know exactly how you feel, I'm in my mid-60s now and have watched this country slide closer to fascism for the last 40 plus years, with a brief respite during the Clinton and Obama administration. Unfortunately I don't have any hope for the future of humanity, unfortunately my wife and I both decided not to have children years ago because we saw the direction this was headed towards complete ecological and economic collapse. The best thing my wife and I did this year was buying a small house in the mountains of Costa Rica, we got a great deal on a very nice well built little Casita and plan to be living there full-time before the 2024 election!

@gerrijacobs8426 Год назад

@@oneirishpoet Yep! I’m 68 & share your fears & have, on & off, campaigned against war & capitalism over the past 40+ years. I did used to have dreams of moving to Latin America, but I feel too old now. My fears are BECAUSE I have a daughter & 2 granddaughters. I’ve had a good life & am not worried what happens to me. Like me, my family are in the UK. I do hope you enjoy life in Costa Rica - sounds divine. With love x

@jamestiburon443 Год назад

Best spiritual book I have read, at age 60 is: Journey of Souls, available on RU-vid for free.

@TennesseeJed Год назад

Holy cow! How did I miss this on it's day‽

@dianewallace6064 Год назад

Hi Tennessee Jed! You're everywhere (like me).

@TennesseeJed Год назад

@@dianewallace6064 yes, I am trying to get to base reality in the time of the great bewilderment.

@dianewallace6064 Год назад

@@TennesseeJed Agreed. I have been doom aware since I learned of methane hydrates in continental shelves in 2006. I am glad now to have found some "compadres" online since 2019.

@AndysBrainblog Год назад

So glad you guys have talked!

@dianewallace6064 Год назад

I love you both. Thank you as always.

@david14011 9 месяцев назад

R.I.P. Michael.

@skarathanos Год назад

beautiful. Thank you

@benbashore8561 Год назад

Very helpful discussion. I feel folks would benefit and deepen understanding of this territory from reading Doris Lessing’s novel Shikasta

@hamidtohid7033 7 месяцев назад

Eternity is our schedule , the body is shadow of soul ,and soul is created to give voice to spirit. We have never born to this world , to begin with and so never die. This world comes to us as one of innumerable worlds .we are spirit.

@sultanbev Год назад

47:10 Anorther point for Jessica's question - at some point empire will find it too expensive (with collapsing EROEI) to intrude into all corners of the world, and will simply walk away. (cf Haiti and Venezuela now). Leaving a mess it has to be said, but that leaves a power vacuum that local civil society can fill. In Haiti it appears it is violent gangs are stepping into that vacuum, but eventually they won't have fuel for their motorbikes & pickups, no gun oil to maintain their rifles, and no more bullets. I study the Ottoman Empire for a hobby, and it was clear that the places at the periphery of empire, those furthest away from the centre of power, and perhaps those with the least resources, that get abandoned first. Here in the UK we can see the process, as Scotland and Wales gradually get more autonomy and head towards independence. Eventually the Westmonster village will simply leave them to it, as the centre will find it too expensive in money and resources to keep control. Empire always goes down fighting and try to cling onto those edges, but always fail before the centre collapses.

@wanchattheeranaew9893 Год назад

Thank you for this conversation. (It is a good break for me from following the risk of nuclear annihilation... on top of ecological collapse.)

@wanchattheeranaew9893 Год назад

@@erdelegy Current geopolitic debacles make threats of nuclear annihilation extremely high. It will happen by accident most likely not intentional.

@wanchattheeranaew9893 Год назад

@@erdelegy Both solutions, nuclear and solar, will not withstanding incoming ecological onslaught. We are simply dancing on the deck of sinking Titanic.

@redhen2123 Год назад

"Michael Dowd is known today for his leadership in the realm of “post-doom," which his website defines as: "A fierce and fearless reverence for life" Awesome, reminds me of Albert Schweitzer's "reverence for life". Always nice to meet more Vegans. Michael Dowd's a Vegan, right? Surely it's the only consistent ethical standpoint.

@CoolBreezeAnthony 9 месяцев назад

Shared.

@Primal341 Год назад

Michael Dowd was absolutely correct to dismiss the platitude of "we." Humans are indeed interconnected, but our conscious actions are not Borg-like. Too many competing motives, too many power imbalances. In other words, "we" are not omnipresent or omnipotent, for that matter.

@scientifico 9 месяцев назад

If one's pursuits are detrimental to life and others, that person is a liability and should be avoided

@Primal341 9 месяцев назад

@scientifico That's most of humanity, you haven't noticed?

@vpnt 9 месяцев назад

I would love to see the shirt Micheal brought up at 19:14 if anyone knows what language it is or how it is spelled.

@ihateexcessivelylongandpoi4490 8 месяцев назад

It's the acronym for "The End Of The World As We Know IT." TEOTWAWKI

@janklaas6885 9 месяцев назад

📍41:34

@radscorpion8 5 месяцев назад

I LOVE DOOMERS

@hascleavrahmbenyoseph7186 9 месяцев назад

It is our own behavior that is the cause of man-made climate change. People would like to believe that nature's behavior is the problem that we need to address, but isn't that ridiculous? We all live by the same erroneous economic behavior model, that being "profit = income - expenses", and this behavior model is the core cause of man-made climate change. It is my contention that we must first correct our own behavior before we make big changes to our energy infrastructure. All of our actual gains come to us from our environment, yet the word "environment" is missing from our definition of profit; in fact, our current definition of profit defines the entire environment, which also includes all of us, as expenses. As we all know, businesses must avoid and or eliminate as many expenses as possible. We must, as our first step, correct our "economic behavior model" before we act to correct climate change; in other words, we must first change our definition of profit. How about this definition: 'Profit = protecting and enriching the environment, and sharing the sustenance that it provides to all of us". This new profit model makes protecting and enriching the environment our prime objective. This new profit model will create millions of new jobs that will come under the heading "Caretakers of the Environment". Caretakers will earn higher wages then most other workers. Under this new profit model, it would be a major expense to ignore our responsibility to care for and enrich the environment. p.s. It may be too late to create a new "global economic model" that is based on this new definition of profit, but it is never too late to try. If we choose to stay with our current "economic behavior model" and simply replace one enormous energy infrastructure with another, we will not only fail to reverse man-made climate change, but we will actually make the climate change problem much worse than it is now by creating far more damage to the environment.

@RalphDratman 11 месяцев назад

38:40 start

@durbanman647 Год назад

Conversation started off well and continued right up until the end where Michael showed his lack of understanding. He is a lovely man encumbered and weighed down by living in the global North where the vast majority of people do not understand the existential threat posed by climate change like the global South. The global North , can deliberate and postulate and congratulate themselves on how clever they are based on their research and published books but they will not EVER have the insight of the indigenous communities especially in the global south who have always tried to live in balance with nature so that nature was always bountiful and forgiving right up until the "clever" deliberating and postulating men from the global North arrived and changed everything. Activism is the key to ensuring the most vulnerable communities are not forgotten and left behind when it is finally to apparent to everyone that climate change is well and truly upon us all.

@dianewallace6064 Год назад

I agree that activism is very important. There is a scientific theory that arboreal forests in what some consider "safe" areas like Canada, northern Europe, Russia and northern China will burn in "flash" forest fires once a certain temperature is reached (about 100 degrees for over 5 days or so). This is based on the "heat dome" research in Canada in June 2021. These "flash" fires would burn from coast to coast.

@durbanman647 Год назад

@@dianewallace6064 Those fires would indeed be frightening. However, currently the Horn of Africa is in the midst of abrupt climate change and food production is being drastically cut. Famine is widespread and there is nothing of major consequence being done by western governments. Africa is the most affected NOW yet it is the continent which has contributed the least pollution/ emission. Pollution in the continent has usually occured under careful gaze of western corporations intent on utilising the plentiful natural resources and "to heck"with indigenous culture and artifacts during those times. India and China watched on intently knowing that they one day will be emulating their role models from the west. People being up in arms at China and India at the COP conferences should understand that they are playing catch up to West. We definitely need a global climate debt which is much much higher than has been agreed so that developed western nations who have historically been the gluttonous greedy culprits pay for their massive roles in climate change NOW in Africa and Asia. Postulating and deliberating by clever people with data means squat without lighting a fire under the usually pasty behinds of executive boardroom members.

@durbanman647 Год назад

@@dianewallace6064 Michael for all his research is imagining a future that many people in the global south are living through NOW. It is easy to go online and read books and imagine a future for your grandchildren and community. The real difference makers are people like Roger Hallam who are advocating climate activism right now for the vulnerable and affected people. We have ENOUGH evidence that change is coming. Those people comfortable in their recliners and living rooms or studies researching and saying " Woe is me" at the ignorance of my colleagues and friends in the community around climate change is intellectualism which has made educated and financially privileged people stupidly apathetic in their communities by making them believe by cycling to work, recycling and growing veggies, yes oh yes, I will make a difference in this world. Yes, be mindful and caring to your families and friends in this time of abrupt change but do not put out your views for humanity if you are not prepared to roll up your sleeves and do something amazing for a vulnerable community across the world and I don't mean just going to the local Red Cross.

@durbanman647 Год назад

@@erdelegy The thing about preachers is that they often preach about stuff they don't necessarily understand. Michael needs to spend time in the South to understand the predicament. It is easy to talk about existential threats and ponder its impact on your life when you have the time, energy and resources to do so. It is like a therapist with no children telling a couple how to raise and manage the behaviour of their neurodiverse children in a busy and chaotic household when they already are doing everything they can. The global North has a cognitive dissonance no matter how your dress it up. They will never understand the Global South as there has always been a power imbalance.

@kevinseah2111 10 месяцев назад

@@dianewallace6064 Reading your comment about the forest fires in August 2023 - as fires continue to burn in so many places - is really chilling. Thanks for that!

@keithk8275 Год назад

I dons’t matter who you know dude.

@smueller12244 10 месяцев назад

My only issue with Michael is he is entirely too convinced that “climate change is not the issue”…while simultaneously saying “it is ecological overshoot”. The two are intimately related to be clear. Michael hasn’t had his home disrupted by fire, floods, rising insurance rates or famines yet so it’s clear he’s preaching from a place well off. Other than that, lovely conversation.