Riddle Me This: What Is The Schumacher Cut of Batman Forever And How Can It Be Released?

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In this video I detail the history of the original edit of Batman Forever and the fan attempts to obtain more information about it and hopefully ensure its release from WB.
The Schumacher Cut of Batman Forever represents the original version of the film that existed before the re-editing for the theatrical release cut we know. The moniker may be a bit of a misnomer but it does represent the fan desire to see the complete film to be released as intended and shot...before it was restructured and cut significantly to tone down the internal darkness and provide a more marketable family friendly summer film.
We have had glimpses of some of the cut footage over the years in the comic adaptation, the novelization and even the original music videos. The DVD added scenes as extras from a workprint. The comic version is rather close to the film as is but shows notable differences that would be in the original edit. The novelization is outstanding and is the best iteration of the particular story.
This week, Kevin Smith publicly reviewed a version he was given of a longer cut that reflects what we know of the original edit and also noted other differences in addition to having audio from before the ADR sessions. With this news reigniting fan desires I felt it was a good time to not only go over the known facts but also to look at the possible ways the film could be released depending on what elements might exist in the Warner vaults.
I reference: The Donner Cut of Superman II, The Editor's Cut of Spiderman 3, the TV edition of Superman The Movie and the Warner Archive release, the workprint release of Blade Runner and Superman IV with George Feltenstein's comments on trying to find the long version of that film. Also, I mention his response to my previous question about Forever in a Q&A podcast.
My own audio commentary for BATMAN FOREVER where I discuss the original cut and other adaptations: • In Defense of Batman F...
‪@SuperHousePodcast‬ interview with the original screenwriters: • The Truth About Burton...
Early script draft by the Batchlers: ia800107.us.archive.org/21/it...
Draft by Akiva Goldsman: www.dailyscript.com/scripts/b...
Release the Schumacher Cut on Twitter: / cutschumacher
The best online Batman Forever resource: www.1995batman.com/
Kevin Smith's recent podcast episode where he reviews the longer cut of Forever: ru-vid.com6pAaOoxs...

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21 июн 2023

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Комментарии : 59

@renansamuel2802 Год назад

Wow! A Schumacher cut would be amazing! This new version could bring a revaluation of the film and really change how modern audiences see the movie, giving the respect that it deserves.

@cheapcinemachannel4548 Год назад

A workprint for 'Batman Forever' would be interesting. They probably doubled down on it being kid friendly when Jim Carrey was cast. They wanted that 'Mask' money. I wish they would start releasing workprints regularly as a special feature on discs. I really liked the one for 'The Burbs'.

@evanzaremba4722 Год назад

They didn't say kid friendly back then. Joel always picture a living comic book onscreen, but still had a darker edge to Batman.

@Minty0091 Год назад

All four Batman films from the 80s and 90s are great.

@HOTD108_ Год назад

I personally wouldn't call Batman & Robin great, but it's inoffensive fun and I've never understood why people get so enraged over it. Like, yeah it's silly, but I don't think that was an accident. It's a fun romp. Just because silly Batman exists doesn't devalue serious Batman in any way.

@Minty0091 Год назад

@@HOTD108_ Batman and Robin is entertaining and I don’t care what the haters say.

@evanzaremba4722 Год назад

That's right.

@evanzaremba4722 Год назад

@@HOTD108_I loved B&R too.

@evanzaremba4722 Год назад

@@Minty0091me too.

@SJ_1990 10 месяцев назад

When Batman III was starting production Joel Schumacher traveled on a first basis flight to Burtons house to get his blessing to do the third movie and he refused to do it without Tim’s blessing and obviously Tim gave that blessing so i think it’s very fitting that Tim would comeback to pay respect’s to a close friend and also finishing the work of what could have been i always defended the first four Batman movies as the definitive Batman franchise and of course no disrespect to the other films that followed after but Keaton Val and George gave us fans something special and that will never be forgotten of the imagination that both Burton and Schumacher gave us and I understand not everyone is fond of of all movies and all opinions but those first four films will always be the GOAT for me and Batman III was my first cinema experience with my dad in the summer of June 1995 and also saw Batman IV in cinema on release with my mum then saw Flashpoint on my 33rd bday this year and to witness total fan service seeing both Nic Cage and George Clooney absolute total win for me as a life long devoted Batman fan seeing all on big screen changed my life forevermore for the better IAM VENGEANCE IAM THE NIGHT IAM BATMAN!!!!! 🦇🦇🦇🦇🦇🦇

@evanzaremba4722 3 месяца назад

Right. Both Tim and Joel are friends and they met while making both The Lost Boys and Beetlejuice. And yeah, Batman 89, Batman Returns, Batman Forever, and Batman & Robin were my favorites, and what Akiva did is to combine Tim Burton's Batman films and Joel Schumacher's Batman altogether and that's why they called it "Batman The Motion Picture Anthology: 1989-1997."

@willalexander5174 Год назад

A good reference point for how Warner Bros could approach this is the recent Star Trek The Motion Picture - Director’s Edition release. Originally shot in 1979, the production team rescanned the original negative in 4K, found intended but ultimately unused audio elements, created a new Dolby Atmos sound mix, as well as some new VFX shots. It was debuted on Paramount+ and in select theaters worldwide, leading up to a physical release including a deluxe box set. Beautiful work, and a prime example of how to re-invigorate a brilliant but flawed film. If Warner Bros treated us like Paramount treats Star Trek fans, we would all be tremendously excited. Here’s hoping.

@DamnFoolIdealisticCrusader Год назад

That's definitely possible if someone in charge at WB wanted to really put some corporate muscle behind the project.

@ChuckM0503 3 месяца назад

I'd like to think this will happen at some point. I just feel like there's been quite a bit of smoke for it that will eventually lead to fire. I even wonder if Kevin Smith talking about it and having some type of print was some way for WB to try and gauge interest. Unlikely, I know, but stranger things have happened. 2025 will be the 30th anniversary, so if they're going to do anything, they have an opportunity coming up. Fingers crossed.

@johnpublic7796 Год назад

WB can't even get the Christopher Reeve Superman movies right. Those movies started the serious big budget superhero films. WB can't even do a good 100 year celebration. I'm disappointed in a lot of their recent decisions. I'm not holding my breath on this ever seeing the light of day. I'm not trying to be negative. I hope I'm wrong. I'll have to pick up the novelization book for sure. Thank you for the video.

@michely.gervais4637 3 месяца назад

Interesting. Forever is not my favorite of the four films, but if this was released on Blu-ray and IF I could see it at retail, I'd happily buy it.

@bkcomedyfan 6 месяцев назад

Love this video! What is the workprint clip going around online you refer to? Would love to see that. Thank you.

@DamnFoolIdealisticCrusader 6 месяцев назад

Fans recut the deleted scenes from a workprint found on the DVD with the film years ago but recently there have been versions of a workprint being discussed or screened such as the Kevin Smith public screenings. I've not been able to see any of these yet sadly.

@systemmonitor5295 Год назад

I grew up loving Batman Forever. As a '94 baby, Batman & Robin figures still dominated the stores for a while as I was growing up, but Forever was my jam. I memorised the movie back to front and front to back. When I was 20 or so, I convinced my then-girlfriend to watch it with me. I tucked in for some cheesy fun when all of a sudden... new lines of dialogue. New camera angles. More Two-Face. A completely different killing of Stickley. I was very, VERY confused. Turns out, the UK version was censored quite noticeably to fit the BBFC 'PG' rating and we wouldn't get the US cut (which is a BBFC '12') until the Blu-ray release. Seeing those small, unexpected cuts restored blew my mind. I can only imagine what a cut of the movie would be like with the cut scenes restored and assembled in script order. I really hope we get something like this soon. Also, you've sold me on the novelisation...

@DamnFoolIdealisticCrusader Год назад

90’s BBFC cuts could get very intensive at times. The Forever toy line was fantastic and as a kid I resented B&R for feeling like such a knockoff of Forever including the toy line. The comic is closer to some of the removed material but the novelization will blow your mind with its improvements! The B&R novelization is also pretty good with a consistent darker tone and a few extra bits.

@systemmonitor5295 Год назад

@@DamnFoolIdealisticCrusader I loved the Batman & Robin line! Though Forever looked way cooler. I never saw a MOC Forever thing on shelves so seeing loose ones, even as a child, felt like seeing a rarity - while stores were overflowing with B&R stuff

@DamnFoolIdealisticCrusader Год назад

@@systemmonitor5295 some of the B&R vehicles and places were pretty cool, but I hated the repainted and reworked Forever figures. Still any line from that time is so many eons ahead of what we see today in a major release that you can’t help but look back with nostalgia. I wore out my Forever VHS copy.

@systemmonitor5295 Год назад

@@DamnFoolIdealisticCrusader Wait, apart from the 3-in-1 vehicle, what was reused from Forever? I don't recognise a single mold on the figs that was repainted?

@DamnFoolIdealisticCrusader Год назад

@@systemmonitor5295 I just went and double checked and it seems like it’s confined mostly to the Batman figures. Some of them are tweaks like the quick change figure but then others like ice blade and wing blade Batman are repaints.

@ColeHomeVideo 10 месяцев назад

Calling it "Batman Forever: The Original Cut" would be commercially sound to release the film as and more appropriate post Schumacher's passing as it would be a higher quality reconstruction of the workprint aka an original cut to begin with.

@evanzaremba4722 3 месяца назад

Right. As much as I loved the theatrical version of Batman Forever which is more darker and more brighter that Joel Schumacher, Tim Burton, the Batchlers, and Akiva Goldsman imagine, the Schumacher Cut of Batman Forever would be the best way to good.

@1165mac Год назад

Schumacher often gets a bad rap, but he has produced some fine films here and there. Falling Down was one of the best films of the 90s, imho.

@MarkSchaub Год назад

Love your videos and your passion. I own the jr novelization from when I was a kid but don't remember it. I'll hold out in the hope that we get the extended cut before I read Peter David's book.

@evanzaremba4722 Год назад

You did?

@MrFidel2525 Год назад

Schumacher cut can just be marketed as "Batman Forever Extended Cut" since it's not true a Director's Cut.

@Murdersville Год назад

I must admit I wasn't aware of what might be, it would be nice to think it could be released. I think we all have movies that might be, I am crazy enough to want to see a director's cut of The Avengers (1998).

@DamnFoolIdealisticCrusader Год назад

You and me both along with a group of fans. That film was so badly butchered and people simply have no idea.

@thatguywhoedits9669 Год назад

Dude love the BF merch in background.

@wilhelmtheconquerer6214 2 месяца назад

I'd love for Burton to do it, since Schumacher is no longer with us. It would fall more naturally with '89 and Returns (especially if they used Danny Elfman's score). In that case I'd love for them to overhaul some of the digital establishing shots and effects to look less like PS2 graphics, as well as giving it colour grading more in line with the Burton-entries

@FifaClips88 Год назад

Sounds awesome but I have no faith in Warner. For the 50th anniversary of Enter the Dragon they included no new extras and added the same commentary track from the 25th anniversary edition. Pathetic.

@rosefarrell2440 Год назад

Listen in the UK I vividly remember ppl and critics loving batman forever. Now its hated n slandered cos of B&R. Yes it's campy but it was fun entertainment in a different era of films. I love it but think the Schumacher cut would take it to another level. U can see it was darker but edited massively.

@systemmonitor5295 4 месяца назад

Hey - so I've bought the novelisation by Peter David, but I've also found one listed on eBay that's authored by an 'Alan Grant'. Is that a pen name or is that a different novelisation entirely? EDIT: Never mind, it's a novel for younger readers.

@DamnFoolIdealisticCrusader 4 месяца назад

Yeah, that’s the junior novelization which I think I read as a kid but honestly I’d like to get a copy just to look at it again. Usually those could be pretty solid, but would pretty much retell the film exactly but in an abridged manner to have a shorter page count.

@LiveSilence3 Год назад

I would be nice to see the film the way JS wanted it. I know his legacy tends to make people confuse this film with B&R the worst one but really people should not confuse these two as if you look at it there is something far better and more interesting here I would love to see what

@DamnFoolIdealisticCrusader Год назад

Absolutely. The original version is much more in line with his films leading up to that point and to know he wanted to do something serious like a Year One adaptation which was denied is sad.

@MrFidel2525 Год назад

Joker 2 is the only movie coming out for DC in 2024. The Batman 2 and Superman Legacy might get pushed to 2026 because of the writer strike. Batman Forever Schumacher Cut and Ayer Cut of Suicide Squad should be released next year in 2024 it's our best chance.

@MidnightsEdgeAfterDark Год назад

This is either an elaborate publicity stunt leading up to the release on MAX and video, or it's just a fan edit of the deleted scenes into the movie or could be a VHS of a workprint but who wants to watch that blowed up on a big screen?

@DamnFoolIdealisticCrusader Год назад

That’s possible but unlikely given WB’s lack of interest over the years. It all depends on how far they got before the re-editing began in 1995. I’m figuring all there is would be a workprint and the process would have to be an as-is workprint presentation or a reconstruction with available materials.

@jokertdk Год назад

DFIC, What is your opinion on the 4K editions of Batman Forever, and Batman & Robin? Currently I have the 2005 8 DVD disc box set of B1989-B&R, the Digi Book/Platinum Edition of Batman 1989 on blu, and Batman Returns steel book blu. I can't, and refuse to purchase the current 4K editions of Batman 1989, and Batman Returns due to the revisions Warners made with the transfers, but have been thinking about upgrading to 4K with Batman Forever and Batman & Robin, since I only own the 2 disc DVD versions with them. I haven't heard much bad about the transfers for either, but just wanted to get your opinion on this. Thank you for your time.

@DamnFoolIdealisticCrusader Год назад

I'm going to do a video on the UHDs and the video history. Basically the new 4K scans for all four are major improvements but 89 has a slight bit of teal in areas (made worse on the 1080p disc as the UHD shows less of this) and Returns is ruined by all the cold blues now being teal in the grading. Forever is a giant improvement over the crummy BD master which looked soft or DNRd. B&R also looks demo disc worthy on the UHD. Unfortunately all four have been remixed with new effects and have no original audio options. Forever and B&R are less obvious than the Burton films but if you know those films you'll feel all the changes. The BDs themselves are based on the the 2005 SE DVD 2 disc masters. They're essentially an HD bump of the SE DVDs with a Dolby TrueHD track added. But for some reason Forever looks bad compared to the other three BDs.

@jokertdk Год назад

Thank you very much for taking the time and being very informative with your response. I appreciate it. From what I understand, the bds and 4Ks have their issues, but the 4Ks of BF and BnR are basically less egregious than B89 and BR on 4K. Sounds like I unintentionally did myself a favor by not purchasing the original bd of BF, from what you have stated.

@mikedbz8530 11 месяцев назад

@@DamnFoolIdealisticCrusaderI was so angry over Batman 89 for a long time but now I kind of feel like it was a good master ruined by bad decisions and a not so good 1080p disc. Not having the 70 mm audio was or 2.0 mix as an option For one thing upon the original dark color timing not being treated as respectfully ie giving a teal treatment. But then they did the same thing to Returns I decided not to buy the rest of the set only to find out the campy films All these years later got the best treatment out of all of them minus the new mixes I might just have to buy the whole set sometime.

@matthewgaudet4064 12 дней назад

Sounds like the studio butchered the movie, I want this to be released. Knowing the studio it's probably a masterpiece.

@williammcguire130 9 месяцев назад

It's a workprint with a couple new scenes and some extended takes. It isn't edited very well. It uses a temp score. Some of the takes used are horrible. It is not a dark movie or even really darker we just get more two face. It's the same batman forever you saw as a kid. Expend your energy on good movies instead

@Luc4valcant1 8 месяцев назад

Have you watched it?

@evanzaremba4722 3 месяца назад

The workprint does have the Batman Forever title march by Elliot Goldenthal and you're right, the November 1994 of Batman Forever also had Goldenthal's own score for Demolition Man and Interview With The Vampire and Danny Elfman's scores for the first two Batman films and Pee-Wee's Big Adventure as a temp score.

@evanzaremba4722 3 месяца назад

@@Luc4valcant1I have not watched it yet until the coming weeks.

@Luc4valcant1 3 месяца назад

@@evanzaremba4722 do you know who have it?

@Luc4valcant1 3 месяца назад

@@evanzaremba4722 do you have it?

@ericlewis217 10 месяцев назад

I think it can only help the film. BF is my least favorite of the original 4 becuase it flip flops too much between dark and comedy. Whereas B&R knew it was a full blown comedy/spoof, it at least has an identiy. BF has some excellent sequences but then gets derailed by the goofy. Some of that is inherent in the film, but in any case an alternate version of BF would be most welcome!

@DamnFoolIdealisticCrusader 10 месяцев назад

I definitely understand that reaction and the more closely you study the film it becomes obvious that there’s a much darker and nuanced film in there trying to get out that was somewhat buried in the re-editing process.

@ericlewis217 10 месяцев назад

@@DamnFoolIdealisticCrusader100% agree 👌🏻