Rigol MSO5000 Bug Bonanza 

Love this scope. Fantastic value for money. Bugs are fixed.

Use Monster audio cables for your probes. That solves all the problems.

When you were zooming in around 28:00 you were sometimes looking at the falling edge, which didn’t have the glitch. The glitch was only on the rising edge.

Data: in ASCII mode - WHY?

Looks like AUTO mode is masking a true trigger event while it's busy processing the 20M points that were auto-triggered. I seem to recall you saw a similar issue on another vendors scope a few years ago (AUTO trigger interfering with catching an infrequent signal).

MSO glitches are often down to probe grounding, in particular not having every probe ground connected - you can usually tweak threshold to get clean signals.

PS Dave had to say your channel just gets better and better. You have become a phenomenon.(The first internet engineering overlord). I'm very pleased I watched you over the years. Remarkable really, and it can be seen that it was a lot of hard work. Respect.

22:47 When you move it around you also see it triggering on falling edge when it's set to rising lol

Thanks for the video, along with the other review video. I would be really useful if you could get hold of one of these again and give an update now after 19months and several firmware updates released. I'm guessing that like the 1054z, this could well become the best bang-for-buck hobbiest scope once the firmware has matured.

Paying to install memory via a USB drive. Who said you can't make those satirical "download memory for your computer" sites come true?

When you went into the trigger menu I was expecting to see it set to TWIL. Trigger Whenever I Like

The logic analyser functionality on this scope is totally broken, I bought it with the LA probes and ended up giving up on it after weeks of frustration. Total waste of time.

Holy crap they are wasting half the space on the decode with that D: nonsense

It looks like Rigol has written this firmware in Java and cross-compiled it to VHDL...and the dim high-gloss display is a screen from a second-hand market.

Have you revisited these bugs with the latest firmware revisions? It would be interesting to see if Rigol listened. I just purchased a MSO-5074 off RIGOL’s “Clearance Center”. I got a great price with the “-bund” trigger, decoding, and AWG options included. Still finding my way around all the features, but it seems to be solid. Through the magic of the EEVBLOG, all the options now show “Forever” and the bandwidth shows “350 MHz”. I’m happy so far...

@32:21 with the logic probes, the Rigol shows 8GSa/s, but the keysight is showing 1.5GSa/s. The Rigol is detecting an edge ring below logic threshold due to the higher sample rate, the keysight is missing it. The keysight is also trigger off the rise and and the ring randomly when you do multiple runs. An analogue channel would probably show the ringing. I could be wrong, but that would be my best guess and thing I'd check (though I guess you have sent it on now). The spurious edge in the middle of the other one went away with the logic level going back to 1.4V rather than 0.9V, I'd still bet higher sample rate and maybe noise across channels? The zooming does look.... buggered, I kept watching the time bar at the top and it was confusing the hell out of me as it seemed like it was zooming into the time point at the centre yet the signals were moving.

My MSO3000 does a lot of the same stuff, and has for quite a while with no fixes to the firmware. For real work I no longer will touch a Rigol scope. I even communicated with them about the triggering problem, and got a useless response. In my experience it simply won't show a serial decode on screen unless the trigger point is well to the right of the first gridline, and if you zoom or scroll the stopped data after that point the serial display is likely to simply vanish and never come back, which makes inspecting a rare event nearly impossible. The horrible display of the serial information has caused me a fair bit of trouble. It's also just riddled with inconsistencies: the list of source channels for any given function can take 2 or 3 different forms, some of them have analog channels at the top, some at the bottom, etc etc. Given that the new MSO5000 seems to exhibit the *exact* same bugs, I can easily decide that I will never buy another "high end" Rigol scope...

in the digital mode on teh Rigol, your trigger point is not in the view port. That's why the waveform is shifting. You'd need to move the trigger point back to the center.

When you zoom in, it will zoom at the center until it fills up some sort of buffer, then it will zoom from the start of the buffer, can be seen when you try to zoom in on a glitch at around 28 minutes. You say the glitch disappears but it have probably moved off screen to the right.

Auto mode shouldn't be used for serial decode.You tend to get the data slapped all over the screen regardless of the trigger point. Serial is bursty, normal trigger mode is perfect for that.

The Runt pulses come propaply from the digital unshielded and probably unmatched probe digital input cables of the Rigol. Running a low impadance signal into an high-impedance input at this edge speeds causes reflections... Adding a few pF will help, especially when it forms a snubber with the resistance of the cables. An oscilloscope probe (digital or analque) isn't just a single copper wire. Well. physics is just analoque...

Regarding the zoom thing, rigol has a setting somewhere to switch between zooming around center and zooming on trigger. Unfortunately the default is on trigger

time for an update dave

Anyone have any idea if they've sorted out any of this crap as of the current Rigol MSO-5074 model?

I think that every scope I have has loads of bugs, some worse than others and scope price seems to have no bearing on it. I have a £100,000.00+ LeCroy with loads of software options and if I select SPI decoding with less than 2 channels enabled then the scope application crashes and the scope has to be rebooted (its a windows based scope).

there might be a reason why "NORM" mode is called "norm" as in normal. I just recently showed a group of students why you normally should use NORM and not crappy AUTO - which in my opinion is true for every oscilloscope there is, analog or digital.

Why does rigol insist on having that horible update rate on the GUI. It is just horrible to use due to that, such a shame for an otherwise high value product.

Consumer reports by Dave!

Does anybody know if all these bugs has been fixed?

Dead spot in "auto" mode, when it ignores the trigger. The input signal burst rate maybe a close match to the "auto" rate. Maybe intentional. Maybe not. I sometimes wonder the thought behind some of these DSO designs. At least these Rigols have lots of knobs. The more the controls match the old analog scopes, the happier I am. Allows for quick changes of the settings. Loved the old logic analyzer plug-ins for old Tektronix 7000 series scopes ... Lots of toggle switches !

Not FS. P=Parity bit and S=Stop bit. It's reporting decoding errors in the RS-232 stream. For the SPI, the line you were dragging up and down may have been the threshold between logic 1 and 0. So outside the waveform left no data to decode.

THIS is why I went with the years-old Rigol ds1504z, instead of the newer ones from *anyone*. It may be a little older tech, but it's popular so has been through a lot of public debugging.

I think the RS232 decode is fine. It only showed garbled data when you moved the beginning of the package off screen (and thereby out of memory).

I'll never buy another Rigol product ever. Thanks to Dave I bought the pos ds1054z. Now I only buy Keysight. Sure it costs more but it usually works perfectly.

And I thought I were rambling on too long about Rohde and Schwarz poorly deburred edges that non rigid coax were rubbing against... But yes, that Rigol do seem to have some buggs in need of fixing. And that one can't reorganize the logic analyzer channels is a bummer, since that would be a very nice feature.

Hello from Brazil Dave! Try to adjust Holdoff time on trigger configuration to something little more (or less) than you data packet interval.

Dave, if you get an opportunity to open up one of those logic probes, do it. I have one of the older generation (RPL1116) for the Rigol MSO1074Z, and they have a comparator/differential driver in there. The threshold voltage is sent over the flat cable. The comparator is a TI LMH7322. Also I know of at least two issues with rigols logic probes: mine had defects in the differential termination- and series-resistors. I hat to swap some of those. If you want I can send you some pictures! A friend has the 2000 series with a logic probe and has found a lot of software issues that sometimes vanish when change the zoom.

Threshold is spelled wrong on the scope!!! "Trehold" timetamp 06:44 6:44

Hey Dave are you paid to alpha test this scope? This scope seems to be not tested by any competent engineer or at least quickly looked at one if it is behaving as it should.

The software seems to be a real mess. Countless opportunity for improvement.

"I swear I didn't touch it." Dave Jones.

The glitches were on the rising edge Dave.

It's good enough for counting potatoes!

OT: Weird stereo panning on the mic

Screen brightness has been fixed in the ones they are shipping now seems to have needed some kind of hardware mod to sort out though. This scope is very hackable so if you buy the base model and hack it to get all the features then its a lot of scope for the money but anyone buying it optioned up is really getting ripped off because its too close to much better scopes in price. Latest firmware does seem a lot more solid than it was back in this video though.

My Siglent 1202X-E does the same thing. have yet seen it decode anything!

Please do an update (with a more recent FW if available) and explain how to hack it !

Your trigger point was on the other channel.

I would like to see a review of the Rigol dsa815-tg. Especially when it comes to the Tracking Generator.

I think the trigger line is at the left edge of the screen...

The 7k definitely has a better viewing screen not so hard on the eyes !!

PEBCAS: Problem Exists Between Chair and Scoop ;)

I never look at data in auto mode, my first scope was an old owon and i think i picked that up because that owon had the same problem and yes those logic analyzer traces are dizzyingly close together, not sure i could work like that i use a DSLogic logic analyzer, 400mhz, 16G stream, 256meg buffer, 16 channels, nifty connectors for the micro coax probes and the whole lot for $150 id take this over that annoying logic analyzer any day of the week, if i was handed this rigol scope at work for logic analysis i think i would probably refuse

Even My TDS 380 trigers correctly

This things looks slow and buggy as hell. What's the price tag, again?

Do you have update for this scope? Did they fix the problems? Thanks for your videos!

'It's terrible Murial'

So Far, So Good

I'd love to know why no scopes offer a screen brightness option? Seems like a weird omission.

I returned the Rigol and when with a Agilent, now Keysight. I tried the Rigol MSO5354 model paid over $3700 for it and almost throw it out the window, ended up returning it and when with a DSO-X and works way better then the POS Rigol. The Rigol is slow and buggy at best, not ready for prime time. Only worth it if you get the 75 mhz version and hack it and willing to wait till they fix the bugs and keep it on bench as higher will have poor viewing angle and reflection due to cheap LCD they used, but at best is a $900 scope and not anywhere as good a a 3k plus scope, just to many issues to even list, no 50 ohm termination and no active auto probe interface, freezes at times and forget trying to use it for RF the trigger is pretty bad on that scope. Then what was Rigol thinking putting a glossy screen in it? I keep my scope above my bench and hate reflection and does poorly looking at it at a angle, so they used a cheap crap LCD. My older Rigol gear uses a proper matte LCD, that doesn't have the issue. I could give a crap about touch screen interface. Plus like the layout of the Keysight much better as don't need a manual to figure out how to use it, or how to adjust hold off and etc, since familiar with it. The shame about it is the Rigol 1054z my friend has is no where near as bad, it is pretty decent and he paid about $350 for it. Reason why I figure I get the MSO5354 as didn't need the probe interface, but scope just had to many other issues. It definitely not a professional level scope. Hopefully they will wise up and use a better LCD and fix the bugs at very least. The revised the DP832 PSU which first one had issues, but replacement been great and haven't had issues with it since and was hackable.

I would like to no which model oscilloscope can measure the clock pulse on 4k tv that have frequency conter

At least you can decode on MSO channels unlike my Keysight 2000 GRR!!! Means you can look at analog stuff synced to digital signals. What is the point of a MSO if you have to use all your analog channels to decode digital signals?!? Sheesh! Ok I'll stop now.

I don't understand and I'm not an expert. But at 5:00 the trigger source is CH 1, but the only input I see connected is CH 2. ???

Fixed in the next release :)

As I see login analyzer in that rigol does not work

That black color is already weird...

This is the rigol I know. for so much time they have not changed anything in decoding interfaces. Much better use simple the Logic analiser from Kingst.

Is it possible to use RPL 1116 instead of PLA2216(Logic Probe)???

Take it apart!!

Maybe the screen glare will vanish with a polarizing filter (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polarizing_filter_(photography).

LOL, the data mangling is the same on my 1054z. Get half a byte off the screen and presto your decoder is spitting out garbage :(

With the logic signals, you have a delay set on the Rigol. So the trigger point is off the screen.

errr - what am i missing here?? i can't see a signal on EITHER scope

Good video.

I really find it incredible that you can buy a $100 smartphone and get a relatively lag-free UI experience, but on these $1000+ scopes and lab tools, the UI is horribly laggy....... Does it really kill the producers to just add a decent SoC with a GPU in there to give it a somewhat responsive UI experience? It's not like the UI is has graphics that require serious graphical horsepower..........

What does LBJ stand for? I have heard Dave say it multiple times in recent videos. Google search does not reveal anything particular for the context.

I think everyone saying ‘don’t use auto for serial’ is missing the point somewhat. Yes, you’re entirely correct in saying that. But think about it in the context of a noob like me, who has just bought their first $60 USB Hantek oscilloscope/LA. An oscilloscope should be an instrument that any old joe can walk up to, press the magic button, and it just works. Same thing with a multimeter. Any old joe should just be able to intuitively shove the leads into something and obtain a meaningful result straight away. It’s said that in UX design, if you need to read a manual, you’ve failed at the design. I am not a software guy by any means whatsoever, so take this with a grain of salt. It’s just something I’ve heard. Feel free to correct or elaborate, but don’t shoot the messenger here. It’s not me saying this. Yes, auto mode is for dummies. But that’s the entire point. Turn the thing on, stick the probe onto something, press go and get your result. This should not be anything but the core functionality of the scope.

I was about to get the 4ch 70MHz version. Should I buy Siglent SDS2104X instead? The only thing that I am interested in Rigol is its ASIC and touch screen. Any suggestion?

Dave, Why no Mail bag Monday or Tear Down Tuesday this week?? 😟

Should you have tried 7 data bits 1.5 stop bits

You had the RS-232 decode set for odd parity...

I think these glitches you see on the logic analyzer when you zoom in, are not really glitches but the way it displays the edge jittering?

16:51 Connnected? With triple n? Rly?

How is the current firmware? are all these bugs fixed?

List of Fixes in firmware. v00.01.03.00.01 2020/04/13 -Add bode map function v00.01.02.00.03 2020/02/27 - It solves the error of SCPI instruction reading La channel memory data, and solves the error of SCPI instruction reading La channel memory data v00.01.02.00.02 2020/02/25 - Optimized the connection HDMI start problem optimized the connection HDMI start problem - Optimize the vertical gear, channel zero elimination error - Optimization of the inconsistency between SPI CLK and SDA names - Zoom mode square wave display in optimized 2S time base - Added command to get pass / fail times - Delete the default email account and password - Problems in remote instructions are optimized - Optimized 1K storage depth, waveform recording - The problem of too many stuck events in optimized decoding v00.01.01.04.04 2019/02/20 - Optimized the operating experience of the local upgrade. - Added the 12-bit high resolution mode. - Added 500uV/div in vertical scale. - Added the SCPI command :MEASure:STATistic:ITEM CNT,[,[,]] to reading the count of measure statistics. - The waveform can zoom out by drawing a rectangle. If you draw a rectangle from the top left to the bottom right, the waveform will zoom in. If you draw it from the bottom right to the top left(the opposite direction), the waveform will zoom out. - Added the GND coupling in channel. - Enriched the color options of the LA channels. - If the newest version is detected, a red dot will display in the Online upgrade menu. - Modified the waveform freeze problem in slow scan mode. - The boot time is reduced to less than 1 minute. - Improve the touch experience in the lower half of the touch screen. - Reduced the noise amplitude of the waveform. - Modified the problem of decode vanishing after moving signals. - Modified the error of digital waveform when adjusting the timebase after stop the sampling. - The :SYSTEM:SETUP command can successfully save and upload setting information in remote. v00.01.01.02.03 2018/10/15 - Release the production version

try the zoom button :P

Is there a teardown for this?

What a pain. There's nothing worse than having to fight with a tool. It's ugly and slowwww. And you can't even trust it? Meh. No, thanks.

How to make a testcase of this? Crazy

Is RIGOL really willing to get a bad review in order to have Dave debug their scope???

I like trying to test GUI systems, they should send me one 😉

Что внутри PLA2216 ?

Have the bugs been fixed?

To me this is not really a bug. This is just slower acquisition rate due to massive memory depth on the Rigol compared to the others. You would not normally use Auto trigger to capture this. Normal trigger is used for this.

Garbage Muriel. All of it. This is a piece of test equipment?

Can someone recommend me a decent scope for 300 bucks? And maybe an ok logic analyzer for 50-100?

Yet another disastrous UI, courtesy of Rigol. You have to be insane to buy that instead of a rohde or keysight.

Whats Datr? 9:14

Rfm Dave, rfm:-)

Same rubbish as GWInstek. It triggers most of the time.