Rivals 2 is a Bad Sequel (but still a good game) 

One thing I want to address because I see this argument (and was worried that I conveyed it this way): My argument is NOT "Rivals 2 is bad because it's not rivals 1." My argument is that the new mechanics introduced in rivals 2 don't make up for what was lost in the transition. The characters do not feel like they were built for the changes that were made, and the new specials are largely uninteresting. I would LOVE for the game to provide more to differentiate itself FROM rivals 1, but i think the characters are largely inseparable from how they were before. For example, if you look at Guilty Gear, Xrd Ky and Strive Ky are almost entirely different characters. But as a casual player, the differences between the characters feel a lot more minimal here in comparison.

Many people are saying it feels more like a sequel to PM than a sequel to Rivals, that's probably because the entire dev team is PM reps. I know a lot of Rivals players aren't happy about that

It seems that no matter the state of Rivals Kragg remains the perfect organism. He is without flaw and the pinnacle of Platform Fighter evolution.

Rivals 2 feels so much more like PM that it seems it would inevitably be controversial. Dedicated fans of PM and Melee will probably find even more to like in it than they already would have in rivals 1. But fans of rivals 1 are going to feel like a lot of the best things in that game are... diminished or missing. I enjoyed the beta but it genuinely felt to me like a game I would play as a pairing with Rivals 1 rather than superceding it.

13:35 Yes the special pummel is more rewarding 90% of the time if you look at it on paper, but the normal pummel is absolutely not useless. Hitting either pummel removes chain grab protection, which allows for bigger combos/more di mix ups after the throw that you would not get if you were to just throw the opponent and not pummel. Since special pummel is the greater reward as it does something on top of removing chain grab protection, the majority of players will try to break out of special pummel, which in turn makes normal pummel more likely to hit and therefore more rewarding to go for. This will then start making the opponent guess normal to break out which allows special pummel to work more often ect ect. Since there is a reward from both pummels and still a reason to do neither, it adds a dynamic guessing game to pummels that also can add expression between players. I also find this system a really cool solution to improve on typical pummels in smash bros, it adds depth to the mechanic while also removing the need to mash out which is just an awful mechanic for obvious reasons. Ofc there is an argument to be had that only competitive players will feel the how much better this new system is and how much it adds to the feel of the game, but I'd argue it would feel similar to your description of drift di for new players, where they may not understand what's happening but will realise they have more control in the situation at hand as the person being grabbed and more to consider in advantage as the person who is grabbing. As a top level RoA player I disagree with a lot of what was said in this video but especially the idea that Rivals 2 is not innovating in the genre, and I think this system alone is a good showcase of that.

2 things I want to bring up: 1) There is a window after being grabbed that prevents you from being grabbed again. Normal pummel removes this window which allows characters to chain grab with certain throws making the normal vs. special pummel interaction a lot less straight forward. 2) We are still in the closed beta phase. I don't agree with you on every critique of the game but I'm confident the aspects I do agree with such as the over centralization of tech chases in advantage will be changed if enough people provide feedback this early in the dev cycle.

As a massive fan of platform fighters and especially Rivals 1, while I do agree with some of your points, I don't with others, though I can see where you're coming from. I'm still not used to drift DI being removed, and I totally agree that the defensive game in regards to stuff like knockdowns and the air/offstage game feel partially lackluster. Same with the new specials not being utilized as effectively on characters like Kragg and Wrastor when compared to the likes of Ranno, Maypul, and Loxodont. I think my biggest disagreement is in regards to the returning cast. With the exception of a good chunk of Wrastor's kit, I think most of their movesets are fantastic, and save for a Ranno DStrong here and a Clairen NSpecial there, they didn't need any fundamental changes when making the transition between games besides tweaked stats and attack values. Zetterburn still feels like a fiery spacie, Ranno still feels like a precise combo ninja, and Kragg's now the grappler he was always destined to be. And even if you don't like the returning cast, we got two awesome new character designs in Fleet and Loxodont with more inevitably coming in the future. Ultimately though, I respect the direction Rivals 2 is heading in because it's the platform fighter that Dan Fornace and his team have wanted to make since day 1. They grew up with Melee and PM and that's the torch they want to carry, and Dan has said he wanted to play with shields and grabs in Rivals 1, but couldn't due to how small he had to scope the project initially. While that lead to some cool stuff for that game, parries and no ledges aren't what they feel defines Rivals. To them, and to me as well, Rivals has always been about, well, the rivals; these absolutely awesome and unique character designs with mechanical synergy and gameplay depth the likes of which I've yet to see in any other fighting game. So yeah Rivals 2's mechanics are gonna be different from Rivals 1 and its characters are gonna stay mostly the same, and that's ok by me. It's not like 1 is gonna be worthless once 2 releases anyways, just like how Melee didn't die once the other Smash games came out, or how people still love and play 3rd Strike despite Street Fighter changing rapidly after it. And even though Rivals 1 won't be officially supported much, it'll still get awesome new stuff put out by the workshop scene. I'm sure Rivals 2 also gonna get even better as time goes on, both through beta testing, as well as whatever fun stuff Aether Studios has cooking for new characters and the story mode. They've shown with Rivals 1 that they know what they're doing when it comes to making games.

The lack of a ledge made recovery so much more creative than other platform fighters.

Im glad the two games are very different, because I would hate for the sequal to overwrite the old game and kill the workshop community.

As someone who has spent a ton of time in both Smash and Rivals Rivals 2 has me excited for the future of the genre It is a pretty huge departure from Rivals 1, but that's ok

Correction: normal pummel is actually really good for a lot of characters, and can often be better than special pummels depending on the situation. While it might seem like they just do a bit of damage, if you look closely you can see it removes the yellow glow from the opponent. That's their grab armor that protects them from getting chaingrabbed. In other words, normal pummels allow you to chaingrab opponents while dealing 8% per pummel, which is huge. Many characters can also do this with their special pummel, but those specials usually do less damage and the dynamic of normal vs special creates a mixup either way. For some characters like kragg, their unique special pummels create a really cool dynamic with their normal pummel since they lead to completely different follow-ups. One more note: drift DI does sort of exist in other platform fighters like smash (and likely rivals 2). You can still input your DI after the first hit, but it's much weaker than R1's drift DI.

rivals has had a rocky history since the jump to 3d

I saw the title and was honestly expecting to really disagree with this, but after seeing this, yeah, I kinda mostly agree. As a fairly casual player, I wondered why DI didn’t feel good and didn’t realize that drift DI didn’t exist, and the getup options feel awful and slow, with the tech window not feeling very open.

Damn, calling rivals 2 shields 1-dimensional and shields bad in general i WILD. Having shields & parries is amazing. Rivals 1 only having parry as a defensive mechanic, now that is 1-dimensional.

I think this was a fairly good critique and put a important light on the key differences between rivals 1 and 2. I especially appreciate this, as I came to rivals 1 for the same reasons as you gave

Love this video. It's sad to see Rivals 2 reject many of the concepts that people loved in Rivals 1 that didn't push away casuals like Drift DI and strong wavedashes, opting to mold the game into Smash rather than seeing how those mechanics could work with and shape the mechanics that they've borrowed from it.

Despite this game having ledges and shields to give more defensive options. they managed to make the defensive state feel worse than rivals 1 where your only option is to run away or parry.

I think it might help doubters to understand that, from the perspective of the official devs, Rivals of Aether is and has always been an attempt to create a spiritual successor to Smash *Melee* specifically, one which does not use Nintendo IP so it can flourish instead of being crushed under the thumb of their legal department. The reason Rivals 1 doesn't have shields, ledges, standard throws, etc is due to engine and budget limitations, not because the designers thought the game would be better that way. While its lack of these things does lend it uniqueness, it is also pretty alienating to the game's target audience, and the main reason why you never really saw many Melee pros playing it. A higher-budget sequel to RoA was *always* going to add these mechanics, because they are absolutely central to the way Melee is played at a high level, and devs very much *do* want Melee players to pick the game up. Maybe that might seem unfair to you as a fan of the previous game, but you also must understand that the game simply wouldn't exist if it weren't for that untapped market. The vast majority of the kickstarter money came from that market, as will the vast majority of its early player base, as well, if it ever truly takes off in popularity. I will also say that Melee's shield play is a well-loved 20-year old metagame, and to call it "one-dimensional" the way you do is uh... not going to help your points land with that crowd at all. If you want R1's fanbase to be taken seriously, you gotta avoid using these broad strokes about Melee's fundamental mechanics. Otherwise it just reads like salt.

I tried Rivals 2 on Parsec during the beta weekend and I really like how it plays… though that’s probably cuz I love playing Smash Ultimate as well lmao. I’m still gonna play Rivals 1 tho, cuz I love that game Hearing your thoughts in this video was really interesting to hear. I didn’t have much time to play Rivals 2 so I didn’t think too much about the stuff you brought up

I hope someday they go back to fix some of the netcode issues with rivals 1 qwq

I like rivals 2 but I completely agree that it does not feel like rivals 1, and feels really homogeneous to other plat fighters and way less interesting than the first game I would pick rivals 1 over rivals 2 any day

After seeing Combo Devil's octagonal shields, I now think every platform fighters needs to have it. It's like if shield tilting was actually useful.

I agree with some of the criticisms here, but i really dont agree with the "Hollow imitation" narrative you have going on and find those terms rather reductive and unnecessary.

When I was playing the beta, I definitely ran into the same issues, especially drift DI and wall jumping. I hope these things get reverted or at least altered. Very good video for informing people about these changes.

Ik u know this but Rivals devs want Rivals to still be its own game with its own mechanics compared to Rivals 2. If Rivals 2 was just 3d and improved Rivals 1 then barely anyone would go back to the Og game except for workshop players and devs. By keeping the games different with their own mechanics and characters it creates a smash effect where both games can be alive and have their own comp scene due to their differences like melee and ultimate. I still like the video and I do think the points u brought up should be taken into account for improving the game especially the fact of changing original characenters move sets from their Rivals 1 move sets and the unnecessary removal of drift DI for launch. New mechanics def need work tho which I'm hoping they improve for launch and listen to rival players who were able to play the game early like u.

normal pummel lets you chain grab. its very important that you can break it!!

But I like PM, more for me I guess?

Rivals 1 defense is mostly about footsies. If Rivals 2 can find a way for shielding to reward footsies in the same way Rivals 1 does but still have shielding as an option I think it could make for a very good system. I think part of the reason Melee is such a beloved game to this day is because shielding is a bad option. Shields barely cover the character and quickly deteriorate letting offense shine. (Pun intended). I wouldn't want Rivals 2 to have small shields in the same way Melee does but I'm sure that if the Rivals dev team looks into shields more they could make a very compelling system.

having a sequel be significantly different from the original is a good thing and this way of thinking comes from the absolutely cooked consumer mindset that a sequel should kill the original this is not the case. they can better coexist when they're different. I'm happy Dan got to make the game he always wanted to.

good video! made me realize some problems with the game i didnt know i had. i heavily agree with the grab restructure idea, the lack of drift di, and the lack of moveset innovation criticisms. personally has as someone with vast experience throughout the genre (most smash games, nasb 1&2, mvs, rivals 1&2, slap, fray, brawlhalla, etc) this game still feels like rivals to me but i can also understand why it feels less distinct. to me it feels like a lot of the new mechanics were added in a very rivals-esque way, making it feel more like an alternate rivals 1 than a smash clone. it does feel like it has less identity than the first, but even with the massive amount of stuff carried over id say its identity is still distinct, its just that said distinct identity just so happens to be closer to smash than the first game

i'm happy about this video, it's especially important since unlike most fighting games, rivals's creators are much more active with the community so there's a good chance things will not stay as they are

You know I thought I was going crazy playing the backer weekend, I was going back and forth between rivals 2 being like either smash 4 or PM while knowing rivals 1 was a more extreme melee. If you just go in the game tells you nothing, this is the first time I heard there was a special pummel, I knew there was a special ledge get up and a knock down but the game doesn't help in that, not even lvl 9 bots, which were kinda bad? I had a fleet lvl9 bot roll behind me and down strong opposite of me while I was just standing still. And speaking of fleet she does have a small amount of sauce, I learned you can tap jump with a jump button and hold down with an analog stick to get an instant air float and not all moves work, especially if you are on the stage proper but her back air works and that seems to be her best killing aerial move and you can do it out of shield too. I dub it the pillz aerial because Ive heard no one else talk about it

I will say that after trying the game online, before playing a full on 7 hours or offline friendlies, playing it offline just makes everything feel that little bit better which I think it definitely needs, all the same i absolutely loved my time with the game, but the video is really well put together and I absolutely understand those who didnt have as good a time as me. Much love from NZ ♡

What I'd change: » Shields shouldn't be able to block strong attacks unless it's a spot shield (meaning you guess when they decide to hit their strong, which is satisfying and should be rewarded :) ) » I'm with ya about pummels: 14:21 » Add drift DI back, even if reduced compared to the original, some control is better than nothing... » Would it hurt if they *tried* letting players use the ledge AND have the old wall jumps from ROA1? Not sure it would actually be as OP as it sounds, but surely it's worth trying..? I'm really looking forward to the sequel to my favourite platform fighter, I'll be looking out for these things when I eventually play it for myself :)

The curse of the 2nd title strikes again

Correct me if im wrong as i haven't played the game yet but with your proposition to fixing grabbing issue wont that cause another issue? If someone waits instead of guessing the first time the person holding them can just toss them after instead of doing another pummel or grab so that they dont have to worry about the grab'e guessing the second time. Leading the to the person getting grabbed to try to guess the first time. Not guessing correctly sounds way more punishing if you dare to guess wrong or not guess at all

8:16 In games that add shielding I'd like the forcefield type, but only if it was one side of the character it defended, rather than an orb of temporary invincibility, a semicircle so you have to turn and try and time a good attack if someone leaps behind but also allowing you to mitigate damage to think for a bit.

Reminder ROA still hasn't been updated since 2019 on Xbox...

I hope they add something to replace drift di if they hate it so much. Maybe like a 1 air time thing where you can increase the knockback you take

I did not realize how much I didn't want knockdown and ledge grabs in Rivals until this video. Off stage was an interesting scuffle and ledge grabbing looks like it simplifies it a lot more than it should. And with knockdowns, maybe if it acted more like a mixup to mess with timing like in Dragonball fighters (delay getup and being immune until standing) I would like it more maybe. Grabs are a bit of a mixed bag. I sorta like this but not really? Can't tell you how many ppl I've gotten from them mashing out of my grab in Smash. So it being this match the attack to escape helps make it consistent. But it just being 2 options is kinda bad. I think having 2-3 different normal pummel types (high/mid/low) and 1 special could help make normal pummel more appealing. Personally instead of a grab, I would rather it be a burst that acted like a parry and shattered opponents shields at the cost of some of your own. Would help keep things moving instead of a guessing minigame. However, I will die on the hill that is my need for shields. I hated the parry in Rivals1. It felt inconsistent so I never really used it much during a game. It made me always be aggressive at all times and that just isn't my playstyle. Hell, I'll take chip percentage in exchange for no knockback. Just give me a consistent defensive option that isn't constantly rolling like a milktank or wavedashing like I snorted several lines of pixy stix.

You think shields are bad? While in Smash except for 64, shields are pretty OP, not having shields is a turn off for me. Like Multiversus. I think if shields covered one side or had more blockstun it would be better.

honestly this video changed a lot about how I have felt about rivals 2, but just like fraymakers I hope this game learns a lot and takes its criticism very seriously

Coming from the perspective of a melee player, I get that shields might be a big change but trust me: there is a TON of depth in the shield mechanic. Shielding is definitely less interesting in a game like ult which doesn't have wavedash and shielddrop, but in a game with those mechanics, you can use shield in a ton of creative ways

If i may go on a small tangent, the screenshot where you blurred out the new characters seems to be in alphabetical order. with a quick google search you can find that the letters between f and k, are G, H, I, and J. we can use these to figure out the name of the blurred character by seeing which characters from rivals one have these letters. By process of elimination, this leaves Forsburn or Hodan. We know Forsburn is already confirmed, but i dont think that a blur of that size would have covered up his whole name. no, i believe it is safe to assume that the funny monkey will be returning for rivals 2. not only is there a stage with his face in it, his theme is ON the kickstarter website as a preview. with the provided evidence i think its all but confirmed that the king of onsen himself will be in rivals 2.

You applauded Rivals 1 for changing the platform fighting formula and then criticize Rivals 2 for changing it again I understand that you feel like it's not being true to itself by changing ledge/off stage mechanics, using different DI system, tech chasing, etc, but I think it's perfect for the Melee/PM community With what's going on with Nintendo and Melee/PM, this game makes a lot of sense for that player base I agree that the music seems like it doesn't belong Also, some of the character model faces look weird to me

I haven't played rivals 2 just yet, but when the first gameplay trailer dropped, m heart sank over the inclusion of shields, that was the one thing that kept me coming back to the original rivals was because of how the parry mechanic worked and why it felt so much more valuable rushing down my opponent. If you're interested to see how other games attempted to evolve defensive play, maybe take a look at nasb2? the shield mechanics in that game I found to be really fun and punished defensive play if you were sitting at ledge, but also depending if you're holding the slime button in shield, you can choose weather or not you want the shield to be pushed away from your opponent, acting more like a normal smash shield as a sacrifice for your meter. the game would be really fun if it wasnt for the expensive dlc smh

I'll be honest, every moment I spend thinking about Rivals 2 the less excited I am for it and the more proportionally excited I am for Combo Devils, which is also an upcoming platform fighter with a 3D artstyle but also adds traditional fighting game mechanics like a magic series, target combos, and even supers, on top of other innovations like the ability to KO opponents by knocking them into the wall if their damage is high enough. It's so strange that Rivals 2 doesn't really innovate all that much in the platform fighter space. Rivals of Aether is the first original platform fighter not related to Smash to go big and stood out with its lack of ledges, grabs, and shields, Brawlhalla released shortly after with its own take on no ledges, grabs, and shields while also innovating in other areas, most notably demonstrating how to make a solid free-to-play fighting game and being the first with rollback netcode. Other innovations include platform fighters like Rushdown Revolt and the upcoming platform fighters Combo Devils and Sentinels Inc. borrowing mechanics from traditional fighters and Flash Party innovating in touch controls. Rivals 2 doesn't really have a whole lot to separate it from other platform fighters outside of a handful of new moves.

10:55 This is not relevant to the discussion but ayo wrastor neutral B is used all the time. It's his best recovery move and can be fastfallen.

TLDR rivals 1 fans wish rivals 2 was a legitimate sequel to their favorite game

I think I’ve heard that the normal pummel actually removes grab armor after throws so if you get off a normal pummel you can chain grab.

This video seems to be an expression of my exact opinions Rivals 2 looks like it’s gonna be a great game that I am legitimately excited for but it’s not gonna be a continuation of the first

Wait just a darn guzzling minute. There was a BETA for Rivals 2?

Basically, if this game came out first, it would've been better, it's at tue quality a first game would have been expected to be with Rivals classic being good enough to be it's own sequel!

I enjoyed the beta a lot. You have convinced me on the game would be better with drift di. Upstrong fleet chases being confirms at higher enough percent is funny though i would like if it was harder / more nuanced. I like fleet, i would switch if someone better is added but i do like them a lot & are my choice of main for now. I dont mind the chracters being mostly the same since i like them already (notable i like wrastor) but do agree with you zetter pummel sucks & some new specials could be more intresting better. (Clairens new special doenst feel that special to me like rivals 1 currnetly, it feels too much just like another normal or strong, air grab back would be nice) (Will mention i played a lot of P+ for a while so i got use to the mechanics more, i like not have shield angles since i dont want a modifer key just for shield angles. (Im a keyboard player that likely will switch to box)) (Will also say i think rivals 2 should have to modifer keys for a total of 16 direction because ledge as well some other things, that or more direction influence with c stick like mollo, only thing with that is forced asdi but still nice ti have)

The thing is, even as much as I played Rivals 2's Beta and love the game to death... I feel like all the points you made are correct. Perhaps it didn't feel as different of a game to me since most of the platform fighters I've played in the last 2 years are Rivals, P+, and HDR, and so going from those to Rivals 2 might not feel too bad. (And I mostly played Kragg and Clairen in the beta, arguably the least different feeling characters) But the game definitely has some room to grow. Drift DI (allegedly) is still in the game, just not in the beta, so that could still change. But I agree with pummel attacks/specials being too in favor of special pummels. And Kragg getup special is not super good at all, yeah. And wavedashes being much weaker doesn't feel great. Initially I thought I'd disagree with the video but I'm glad to hear your thoughts on it, and I have some hope for the game to do better.

What characters were leaked?

While there were a few good points I disagree heavily with the new pummel system being bad or unexpressive. Regular pummels remove grab invincibility which allows for chaingrabs. As the game gets optimized people will definitely start abusing that more which will make grab breaking with A just as important as grab breaking with B.

i haven't looked at this game since i saw they were throwing the sprite based style into the trash and looking at it now it looks like they just mpdded rivals characters into project m or something rather than an actual followup to rivals, i still would want to get it once it comes out to support people who made one of my favorite games but idk if i would like this nearly as much as the original game

I half agree with the sheilds complaint. It feels like it needs something for that extra oomph. It's too late to alter things now but I feel like a cool change would be taking a page out of Fraymaker's book but with a Rivals twist. Your shield only protects the side you're facing, while your parry covers your entire hitbox. Add that on top of it taking you longer to recharge your shield and your shield consumption being much faster, with the punishment being you can only parry until the shield is recharged instead of stunning the player for a bit, and you've got yourself a cool risk vs. reward mechanic. That's not to say what we have right now is bad, It's just a idea for that something to spice up the formula.

Rivals of Aether 1 is the greatest platform fighter of all time and it’s not even close. The game is like crack once you start to get the hang of it

Great video think this is the first time Ive heard of drift di. So much tech in fighters that I just dont know about

I can imagine that the devs thought about this game in the context of competitive melee. And while this is almost guaranteed with platform fighters, they probably especially focused on the melee aspect in the game design. In the past the competitive Melee/PM scene had a lot of trouble and maybe they wanted to make a contribution to the community by making a game which is design and mechanic-wise in a similar context, so that players wont have to worry about Nintendo

pretty damn good video, i don't think this game will be bad on final release, hell, as a PM fan, this is right up my alley, but losing some things that made rivals 1 so unique does hurt, though, in a way, it also helps R1 stand out more and give me reasons to keep going back and playing it, even after R2's release

tbh i love rivals 1, even if im not very good at it, and not active in its space anymore so i backed rivals 2 for the early to bed maypul skin and proceeded to forget it existed lmfao i may be a bit stupid (also completely missed the backer weekend, but i was busy so i wouldn't have been able to get to it anyway)

As a anime fighter fan, i LOVE rivals 2. It feels like an actual anime like fighting game minus the high low and cross ups put into a plat fighter. I kinda disliked Rivals 1 because it really feels like a footsie simulator rather than a fighting game. Yes, footsies are a great part of all fighting games but rivals 1 imo fails to highlight the spectacle of it by not having a real defensive mechanic. It's missing the layers of adaption like pressuring someone's block, conditioning for grabs, etc, that turns me off completely. I completely understand your and many other rivals 1 fans stance on the game, but personally for me rivals 2 feels VERY nice as a fighting game fan.

Hitfalling also feels less fluid and not as good generally. The game is a lot less generous with buffering hitfalls, and on top of that, I'm not sure if I'm the only one that noticed but I believe the mechanic where hitting an aerial reduces endlag might have been changed?

Honestly, it almost feels like Smash has a stranglehold on platform fighters as a genre. Whenever a new one gets announced, so many people immediately feel the need to compare it to Smash, and worse case scenario, they call them "smash killers", which just ends up bringing people's expectations up way too high. In some aspects, Rivals 2 feels like it's almost making an active attempt to quell comments like this by making it closer to Melee and PM, and while this works for some, it just makes the game seem like "Project M 2" to me, as opposed to "Rivals of Aether 2". Chances are I'll still enjoy it when it comes out, but it is honestly disappointing that it's becoming more similar to Smash instead of pushing itself further in its own direction.

Largely unrelated to Rivals 2 specifically but I’d still like to see a second Rivals/Brawlhalla crossover, with a Teros skin for Loxodont and a Fleet skin for Ember

To me, Rivals' biggest selling point was always the workshop. This one simple fact made it so Rivals 2 could never top 1 for me, so I don't actually mind that it's going in a more different direction than Rivals 1. I think it's more beneficial for it to differentiate itself, otherwise I don't see myself having a reason to play it over 1.

admittedly, the mechanical shift is so much further towards my own personal preferences, so i'm very happy with how it's going. i don't blame anyone for missing what's been lost since rivals 1, though! just need them to nerf shields, buff parries, and make tech chasing less universal and it'll probably be my fav platform fighter

Honestly a shield rework I would like is if you had to pick the direction to block from left right and up so mind games other than hitor grab can exist

Who are the next 2 characters?

The game isn't fully out it may change

Weird take, but I think that if they're dead set on keeping Rivals 2 how it is now, it would be neat if they added a sort of "legacy mode" that played way more like Rivals 1 as a side mode. Have it bring back drift DI, unnerf wall jumps, etc. I don't even think they should balance anything towards it, because they've gone on record saying that a lot of the changes they made to Rivals 1 mechanics were made to balance the game around all the Smash mechanics. As a side mode, they wouldn't have to worry about balancing the old mechanics and Rivals 1 players could have something fun to mess with at the same time. That'd be really cool I think :]

5:29 idk they might add it sometime hopefully

I have not been able to play rivals 2 yet, but one thing I hate is the shield mechanic, I wish there was left right or high low blocking or even both, shielding in smash is so boring compared to blocking in every other fighting game

What you don’t realize is that Smash Melee is Rivals of Aether, but harder. The guy who made Rivals of Aether made it cause he wanted a Smash Melee that was easier to get into. So they were most likely going to get more into something that was closer to Melee in gameplay. That was the end goal.

Cool! I wanted to find a nicely put review that actually has a negative take on the game so I could gain more perspective on what's not-perfect about it, because I loved the open beta and love the game. However, I will admit that I was hoping that take would focus less on it being "well it's not rivals of aether." I have to agree that some things they added and removed, like adding shields and removing drift DI, does help make the game feel like just another platform fighter, but I also don't think this is a bad thing, either. Moreover, I definitely don't want "Rivals of Aether but better;" like Smash, there should be a reason to want to play the older games. I know me and plenty of my friends still find Smash Brawl to be plenty of fun despite us settling on Smash Ultimate, and I don't want Rivals 2 to outright replace Rivals of Aether, so taking away some of that Rivals of Aether identity will help Rivals 2 stand out more. Lastly I also think though that people will just have to give the game more time. It's in beta, it's only been playable two or three times, now, and there's plenty that could change for the better until the game's release. Great review!

I dont agree with your take on shielding I do think shielding is a really good mechanic it just hasn't been implemented well yet. I havent gotten to play rivals 2 yet so idk if it's in there but Ult took a lot of steps to make shielding more interactive with parrying and holding b to angle your shield. I think it would be a near perfect system if they didnt also give most of the cast ridiculously broken oos.

I disagree with most of what you said, but I can still understand where your coming from on most things. The only thing I dont really get is you saying the older characters dont fit with the engine and new mechanics. While I can kind of understand that, I feel like it also just doesn’t make much sense seeing as the first 4 characters they made on the new engine are literally from Rivals 1. Which to me, means that the game was built off of these older characters. So I dont really understand how the characters that the engine was made for, dont work in Rivals 2. Like I get that their moves might not mix well with shields and throws, but also if the game started out with mainly returning characters would the shields and grabs not be facilitated towards the older movesets? With my time in Rivals 2 I really enjoyed each character and learning the new ways to play each of them. I think if you play the characters exactly how you would in Rivals 1, you’re gonna end up getting beat out by the new mechanics and playstyle of Rivals 2.

It’s a good platform fighter, but it ain’t Rivals of Aether

I gotta stop you on the Wrastor bit.. tornado is used at top lvl in rivals one lmao. It ends a lot of top ladder combos from the ceiling.. I agree with a lot in the video tho

So, who are the new characters)

rivals went from a inspired game from smash bros to a smash bros copy

she has returned!

i forgot this even existed

While I have not played rivals 2 yet, (As i did not fund the kickstarter), I do think that the old characters should probably get reworks that utilize their new options. Wrastor especially was my least favorite character in og rivals, and the new specials he got do not add anything to his already boring kit.

I don’t understand why you say side switching isn’t in the game. Is the platform fighter equivalent not crossed up shielding?

Tbh I think the only thing Rivals 2 needs to do is drift DI and make shields weaker. The other mechanics need more time for analysis. The grabs are completely fine, people aren't engaging with the full mechanics and the video itself proves this by saying you should only tech special pummel. If you think that you're not winning the grab meta. That's how I feel about many other mechanics criticized in the video. I don't think people have fully engaged with the tech yet for a clear answer. As for shields though, it's undeniable that they slow down the gameplay, but I don't think it should be removed. I think there needs to be a reason to not grab shield...and there sort of is. You can break shield, but that takes a WHILE. There's a lot of ways to make shields weaker, but idk what would best. Nerfing it would undeniably speed up the game though.

I feel like adding a "classic" option to Rivals 2 would lul alot of complaints. All it would have to do is replace shielding with parrying and change the walljump. Making it an option seems like the best way for everyone to be happy.

while i understand where you are coming from i thank for them for the direction they are going with 2 cause it gives us smash fans a viable alternative

I'd say it's a lot like Toribash Next It's... a sequel... but... less of a sequel and more like the same game but using a different system. I like what they are going for and they got a lot going... but the argument that it is too similar makes sense... but with the new characters I assume they only brought back the base roster from the other game... and that they are planning on WAY more new characters.

I still think this game will be a banger but youre very right. Like yeah its not rivals 1 and thats okay but it doesnt mean they shouldnt transfer all the things from rivals 1 that made differ so much from smash. Ledges are cool and i feel like shield have potential but i havent played 2 so im not sure. I am still hopeful since it is still early days and having gotten back into rivals recently i really want this game to be top tier but all we gotta do is wait. Sick video

Oh man everything you said just rings so true. It's definitely PM 2. Glad it's around though.

Half the comments are saying it's more like PM, I'd say that's a great point.... if I knew what the heck PM stands for besides Prime Meridian.

The Get Up Special seems awkward to me as, like you said, whenever you're prone on the ground the enemy is probably about to hit you preventing you from doing your fancy new move. There's not time for it, you gotta be teching in order to play it the least bit safe.

i guess is that the game is prob gonna be a big breath of fresh air to smash players but fans of rivals 1 will feel like its less of the game they fell in love with. Imo I think if the game's title was something that wasnt just "the sequel to the first rivals game" because it seems good just too different to be an upgrade its more of a sidegrade/option

great video

I always felt like Rivals had a great unique identity for casuals compared to Smash Ultimate with: - The gorgueous pixel art - The very agressive defensive mechanics - Workshop support (Great viral marketing, funny at parties) And this sequel doesn't really seem to embrace any of these. It's just so weird, it feels like they instead just want to make it more like Smash Bros since they got a higher budget, almost feels like the pixel art and parry system in the first game was just there for budget reasons. Why would a casual player play Rivals 2 over Smash Ultimate? Of course they should make the game they want to make (Very clearly it's by PM mega fans for PM mega fans) But I really can't see this game ever selling even close to the anmount ROA1 did, and to me it feels like they let go of a lot of what I felt like was ROA1's unique identity to replace it with Smash Bros. Worship. And I feel like all the Smash Bros. worshipping in the dev teams is really holding platform fighters as a unique genre back IMO.

Ok the “smash” umbrella term is very misleading in this video. One, ledges in brawl and melee work VASTLY different than smash 4 and UTL. That’s the same for how di works in each game too. Melee has more than just “di” it also had smash di which to be fair isn’t as free as drift in terms of the control you have to your character but it was VERY close. It’s ok not to like smash but melee and every other game in the series are literally night and day in terms of how they feel and play and straight up have different mechanics.