Rob Bell and Andrew Wilson // Homosexuality & The Bible // Unbelievable? 

It is odd that this issue gets to be such a dividing line. The scripture makes me feel that it is sin. Yet personally I'm far more offended by liars than gays. It is an easy sin to pick on for those ofus not tempted of it.

Yes, both of these men model how to respectfully dialogue and disagree within a Christian brotherhood. Thankful for their spirits.

Rob did a brilliant job.

I have yet to find him answering a straight question with a straight answer. As a result, I don't trust him.

He was answering but they were not connecting. Andrew was honed in on the act itself. Rob was describing the role he sees gay people in the church … in committed relationships, not just having sex in temples, etc

In light of those Bell leads astray with his faux confidence, I'll take theological accuracy over manners any day.

Your struggles are in no way on par with a gay man trying to live a celibate life.

@@Hoodedcrickets every person has struggles in Life you have no idea what that person is going threw to compare the struggle

Homosexuality is no more sinful than heterosexuality.

most frustrating though that we don't see the answer to the perfectly fundamental and essential question asked by Andrew at the end - actually made me thumb-down the video in the end because it was just a tease and cut off at the most critical moment

Most matters live in the Gray. Not black and white

Really well said.

Acts 17:28 ‘For in him we live and move and have our being.’ As some of your own poets have said, ‘We are his offspring.’

Far better to trust in God for our support and comfort .Proverbs 3.5-6

Homosexuality is NOT a sin. To say so is to misunderstand Scripture.

@@daodejing81 Do not lie, that is a sin, just like practicing homosexuality. I hope that my previous writing convicts you as you are completely wrong. "Then you would specifically have to deny that the Holy Spirit was leading the Apostles in truth and away from error and would continue to throughout the ages, John 14:26, "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you." and you would have to go further with not only denying that promise of Christ but the words of St. John when it comes to the Holy Spirit teaching us, 1 John 2:27, "As for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in Him." You specifically would have to deny these since as we go on we know that the Holy Spirit came upon St. Paul and Jesus even specifically teaches on the sermons of the mount in Matt 5:18, "For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the law until all is accomplished." and to accept that things are different because culture has changed which seems to be the point of your argumentation you would once again have to deny St. Paul's teaching again on not conforming to the world in Romans 12:2, "Do not be conformed to this world but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that you may prove what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect." Saying that because we live in different times God has changed his mind on something He said was sin is changing God, it's literally stating a fact on God without saying anything about God. The thing that would be implied by such a conclusion would be "God was wrong or God isn't perfect" I would argue to the complete contrary and even go further and say that He, Jesus specifically put a Church on earth for the salvation of men that would be lead by His promises to St. Peter, in Matt 16:17-19, "And Jesus answered him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven. And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.” This would point to the Catholic Church, which has always followed the Biblical instructions unlike common Christians of today, and all the evidence points to the Catholic Church being the legitimate Church Jesus Christ put upon earth with not just Scripture but with history and physical miracles that cannot be explained by science today. Also to suggest that it is not immoral for a man to be with a man is contrary to everything I have put forward and what all the Ancient Churches have taught and never wavered on. This is what happens when we get people who don't follow the Church God specifically put on earth, we have to start rejecting the teachings of not only the Apostles but of Jesus and imply that God was wrong or not perfect. This is a deception of the devil, plain and simple. I have eyes to see and it is clear to me, it's clear to the Apostles and Jesus, and it's clear to His Church. Also you imply that nowhere in the New Testament doesn't teach Polyamory but I would argue it is implied especially since we do not see this in the early Church which if you follow the Scriptures they were lead by the Holy Spirit and still are today, how do I get this inference you may ask? In Gen 2:24, "Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh." Now we know that Adam only had Eve in the garden, God made it that way and I don't see how multiple people could become one flesh, it does not make sense and I would say Jesus implies this Himself in Matt 19:4-6, "He answered, “Have you not read that he who created them from the beginning made them male and female, and said, ‘Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate.”" Jesus was speaking on how God allowed them to do things the way there weren't supposed to be because of their hardness of hearts, it wasn't suppose to be that way it was suppose to be the way God originally made it, one man and one women come to be one flesh literally when they have children which is the commandment of God in Gen 1:28, "And God blessed them. And God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it, and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over every living thing that moves on the earth.”" you cannot not fulfill this commandment and bring glory to God while in a man on man or women on women relationship, it is actually impossible for them to become one flesh the way God made it to be so it is in direct opposition to God and Jesus never refuted Lev 20:13, "If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them." He actually affirms it in Matt 5:18 as I have already shown above. I can only agree to "Love God with all you are, love your neighbor as you love yourself." we are called to direct people out of sin and error those of us that are living in truth however with the Holy Spirit and from your implication it seems you have conformed to the world and "that's just the way things are" when in many different places it is condemned to "be a friend of the world" 1 John 2:15, "You adulterous people! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Therefore whoever wishes to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God." and in James 4:4, "You adulterous people! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Therefore whoever wishes to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God." James 1:27, "Religion that is pure and undefiled before God the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world." and the worst in my opinion for supporting this world view, 1 John 5:19, "We know that we are from God, and the whole world lies in the power of the evil one." Do not conform to this world and the way the world wants things to be, it is of the devil as he has domain of the world which is another Biblical teaching but I think I have made my point quite clear that even purpose the rhetoric you have written is putting you at enmity with God and I hope you repent from it and actually accept the Holy Spirit and His teachings. My prayers go out for you."

@@daodejing81 We are not the ones who misunderstand Scripture, you are the one who is ignoring it when it is clear to see that God is perfect and did not change.

Amen and Amen🎉

Amen ❤

Then you would specifically have to deny that the Holy Spirit was leading the Apostles in truth and away from error and would continue to throughout the ages, John 14:26, "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you." and you would have to go further with not only denying that promise of Christ but the words of St. John when it comes to the Holy Spirit teaching us, 1 John 2:27, "As for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in Him." You specifically would have to deny these since as we go on we know that the Holy Spirit came upon St. Paul and Jesus even specifically teaches on the sermons of the mount in Matt 5:18, "For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the law until all is accomplished." and to accept that things are different because culture has changed which seems to be the point of your argumentation you would once again have to deny St. Paul's teaching again on not conforming to the world in Romans 12:2, "Do not be conformed to this world but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that you may prove what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect." Saying that because we live in different times God has changed his mind on something He said was sin is changing God, it's literally stating a fact on God without saying anything about God. The thing that would be implied by such a conclusion would be "God was wrong or God isn't perfect" I would argue to the complete contrary and even go further and say that He, Jesus specifically put a Church on earth for the salvation of men that would be lead by His promises to St. Peter, in Matt 16:17-19, "And Jesus answered him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven. And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.” This would point to the Catholic Church, which has always followed the Biblical instructions unlike common Christians of today, and all the evidence points to the Catholic Church being the legitimate Church Jesus Christ put upon earth with not just Scripture but with history and physical miracles that cannot be explained by science today. Also to suggest that it is not immoral for a man to be with a man is contrary to everything I have put forward and what all the Ancient Churches have taught and never wavered on. This is what happens when we get people who don't follow the Church God specifically put on earth, we have to start rejecting the teachings of not only the Apostles but of Jesus and imply that God was wrong or not perfect. This is a deception of the devil, plain and simple. I have eyes to see and it is clear to me, it's clear to the Apostles and Jesus, and it's clear to His Church. Also you imply that nowhere in the New Testament doesn't teach Polyamory but I would argue it is implied especially since we do not see this in the early Church which if you follow the Scriptures they were lead by the Holy Spirit and still are today, how do I get this inference you may ask? In Gen 2:24, "Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh." Now we know that Adam only had Eve in the garden, God made it that way and I don't see how multiple people could become one flesh, it does not make sense and I would say Jesus implies this Himself in Matt 19:4-6, "He answered, “Have you not read that he who created them from the beginning made them male and female, and said, ‘Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate.”" Jesus was speaking on how God allowed them to do things the way there weren't supposed to be because of their hardness of hearts, it wasn't suppose to be that way it was suppose to be the way God originally made it, one man and one women come to be one flesh literally when they have children which is the commandment of God in Gen 1:28, "And God blessed them. And God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it, and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over every living thing that moves on the earth.”" you cannot not fulfill this commandment and bring glory to God while in a man on man or women on women relationship, it is actually impossible for them to become one flesh the way God made it to be so it is in direct opposition to God and Jesus never refuted Lev 20:13, "If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them." He actually affirms it in Matt 5:18 as I have already shown above. I can only agree to "Love God with all you are, love your neighbor as you love yourself." we are called to direct people out of sin and error those of us that are living in truth however with the Holy Spirit and from your implication it seems you have conformed to the world and "that's just the way things are" when in many different places it is condemned to "be a friend of the world" 1 John 2:15, "You adulterous people! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Therefore whoever wishes to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God." and in James 4:4, "You adulterous people! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Therefore whoever wishes to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God." James 1:27, "Religion that is pure and undefiled before God the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world." and the worst in my opinion for supporting this world view, 1 John 5:19, "We know that we are from God, and the whole world lies in the power of the evil one." Do not conform to this world and the way the world wants things to be, it is of the devil as he has domain of the world which is another Biblical teaching but I think I have made my point quite clear that even purpose the rhetoric you have written is putting you at enmity with God and I hope you repent from it and actually accept the Holy Spirit and His teachings. My prayers go out for you.

Amen 🙏

Well said

TheSmithDorian "...the self centered minority who, like the young man in Mark 10:17, want to have their cake and eat it. " From my perspective as a gay man it is the MAJORITY who represent the young man in Mark 10v17: they get the choice of celebacy or marriage and spit the dummy at the idea of sharing this 'cake'. I do not think you are being fare to Rob in saying he looks uncomfortable. All the teachers I know wear one face for teaching and others when in debate. He is accepting Andrew's challenges thoughtfully. Would you rather he step out of character in that respect?

differous01 “From my perspective as a gay man it is the MAJORITY who represent the young man in Mark 10v17: they get the choice of celebacy or marriage and spit the dummy at the idea of sharing this 'cake'.” Remember that these are supposedly God’s laws - not human laws. So however the ‘cake’ is shared it’s not heterosexual humans that are deciding it. Your position seems to be that you don’t think it’s fair that these laws/rules should apply to you because you really want to do what one of the laws says you shouldn’t do. Furthermore, you feel that this law places a much bigger burden on you, as somebody who is attracted to men, than it does on heterosexual males who are not attracted to men. In other words, compliance requires an unequal level of sacrifice from individual to individual. Yes, it does. But so do most laws; “Thou shall not steal” - is easy to comply with if you happen to be a rich single man. If you are poor with no job and a family to feed it’s much more difficult. “Thou shall not commit adultery” - For most of human history the majority of marriages have either been arranged or out of family duty or economic necessity. Most of the time the man wouldn’t have had a choice over who he was marrying and the woman almost never would. Being physically attracted to your spouse was not a factor that was given much, if any, consideration. If you happened to be married to somebody that you found to be physically repulsive it’s going to be more of a strain to resist committing adultery than if you were married to someone that you find to be physically attractive. “Thou shall honor thy Father and Mother” - Easy if your parents are caring kind people that want the best for you. Harder if your parents happen to be abusive assholes. It’s the same with lots of modern laws. If you drive a clapped out old VW Beetle that can only do 65 mph and you do all your driving on city center roads, keeping below a speed limit of 70 mph isn’t hard to do. Christianity has never been about equality or fairness or justice in this life. It’s almost the opposite. It’s about doing what you need to do in this unfair, unjust world to gain equality, fairness and justice in the next life. The Bible is full of inequality - between Jews and Gentiles, Men and women, married men and single men, free men and slaves. The message is that the inequities will be made right at the end; it’s not that everything should be peaches and cream right now. It’s essentially, suffer, make your sacrifices and keep the faith. “I do not think you are being fare to Rob in saying he looks uncomfortable” I think he does look uncomfortable but understandably so. He has drawn quite a lot of criticism from conservatives in the past over what they considered to be populist positions that he has taken and advocated. What he is saying here will undoubtedly draw even more. It’s not just the issue of accepting homosexuality itself; it’s as much to do with why he is advocating acceptance. If he was arguing that certain Biblical passages had been misinterpreted or mistranslated and that the correct readings did allow room for homosexual physical acts to be acceptable under some circumstances - he’d still be criticized but probably only fairly lightly and not by every Church leader. But he’s basically arguing that as time goes by Church membership will suffer if it does not change its position because acceptance of homosexuality is becoming more widespread in the general population all the time. And he’s probably right. The Church establishment on the other hand feels that God’s position does not change with every fad, fashion and folly like man’s position does. And that if the Church was to amend its doctrine and teachings on the basis of their popularity among society or even the global or nation al congregations, then it’s no longer a Church but rather a social club that changes its rules every time the wind changes. And I think that they are right.

TheSmithDorian"...these are supposedly God’s laws ..." Supposedly? Really? You believe this? "How can you say "we have the law" when the lying pens of the scribes have altered it?" (Jeremiah8v8) That's in the Bible btw. If the doctrine that the Bible is the word of God was meant to mean what you are saying - that it's infallible - wouldn't the crede makers have declared the Godhead to be composed of the Father, The Son and the Holy Spirit and the Holy Bible? That is the position you [EDIT: sorry, not you, but some I have met] are elevating the Bible to.

differous01 “Supposedly?” Yep. “Really?” Yep. “You believe this?” My beliefs are not the issue. I’m just giving you what the orthodox Christian Church position is. "How can you say "we have the law" when the lying pens of the scribes have altered it?" (Jeremiah8v8) That's in the Bible btw” This passage is referring to the practice in Jeremiah’s day of scribes copying sections of the law from the Torah and reproducing them in such a way as for it to be beneficial to themselves or their Patrons. But the Torah scrolls themselves weren’t corrupted. They were treasured possessions that remained in a family or in the temple for generations. They couldn’t be altered and they were hugely expensive works of craftsmanship. Their production was heavily regulated and incredibly time consuming and labor intensive. Which is why copies of only the relevant sections of the law would be made as their patrons required. “If the doctrine that the Bible is the word of God was meant to mean what you are saying - that it's infallible…” I didn’t say that. ”wouldn't the crede makers have declared the Godhead to be composed of the Father, The Son and the Holy Spirit and the Holy Bible?” Not really. The first 3 are supposed to be eternal spirits existing in a spiritual realm - the last one is just a book. It might have trouble staying afloat up there in heaven. You seem to be introducing the possibility that the Bible might be wrong in what it says about homosexuality By which I mean misinterpreted, mistranslated or intentionally altered so that it doesn’t reflect God’s word on this issue. But you’re not actually coming out (no pun intended) and saying it. So let me ask; do you have any real reason to think or evidence to support the idea that the passages on homosexuality in the Bible as they currently appear do not reflect what the original author wrote / intended them to mean? I’m curious - the way you write suggests that you consider yourself to be a Christian. If you don’t then why would you bother about what it says? But at the same time you seem prepared to question whether the Bible is either accurate / true or the word of God to resolve this issue of homosexuality. Does that not create a huge conflict for you? If you can deny the Bible’s authority or veracity on this issue, which is pretty clearly set out and not the subject of any dispute concerning translation or interpretation, then on what basis can you take any other part of it as the foundation for your Christian beliefs? ‘That is the position you are elevating the Bible to.’ Nothing could be further from the truth. I’m giving you the orthodox Christian position. I’m telling you how Christians that believe that the Bible is God’s word, arrive at that position You asked about my beliefs concerning the Bible and OT law. Below is a copy of a comment that I posted some weeks back on a different video. It should give you a good idea what I think personally; ***************************************************** 31 December 2014 He's asking the wrong question. The question should be; - 'Am I correct in thinking that the Bible is God's perfect word'? It can be broken down further to get to the answer; 1) Did either God or Jesus ever instruct man to formulate a Bible? 2) Did either God or Jesus ever tell man what books should go into the Bible? 3) Did either God or Jesus ever give man any criteria to enable him to decide which books should be in the Bible and which should not? 4) Did either Gods or Jesus ever confirm that the books that are currently in the Bible are the correct ones? 5) Did either God or Jesus ever say that the canon was closed? 6) Did any of the biblical authors ever claim to be writing under God's 'inspiration'? If the answers to 1) - 6) are 'no', then the answer to the main question must be 'NO'. ****************************************************

TheSmithDorian First of all my apologies. 1/ I did not check your back posts to see what you were defending. I was lazy, so I thought I'd just ask if you believed it. 2/ putting the emphasis on "really" - and all that flowed from it - was hubris; it presupposed your purpose. Regarding my beliefs I used to be a Christian, but now I'm atheist/agnostic. Yes, it was an irreconcilable position. After 7 years of celibacy it became intollerable that I was not seeing any sign of the healing advocated. I have read Karen Armostrong's works on how the Bible was written. Jeremiah 8v8 is coincident with the revisions to the Torah which, evidence strongly suggests, went on under king Josiah. The scribes in question are known as the 'Deuteronomists' or 'second law makers'. What we have in the Bible now is the result of this and, maybe, the later revisions under Ezra. That final revision is coincident with Ezekiel whose "you have made Sodom a byword" COULD be a rebuttal of the Levitical injunctions. It is a weak position though. Your 6 questions are a much more elegant approach to the problem I've been wrangling with. Thank you very much for taking the time.

Exactly, Rob is uneasy and his eyes tell us he is afraid of these questions.

I don't think Rob even views the Bible in the same way these other men do anymore. His book "What is the Bible" is a good example of his most recent thinking. Thus the argument probably is people speaking two different languages.

You seem bigoted.

A few talks longer than 5 minutes: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-7l_BtCEzBpo.html ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-kr-ylf1Z_CY.html

Best comment!

If Rob doesn’t believe what he’s saying he shouldn’t say it. He’s just trying to take the path of least resentment and, in the process, he’s compromising the truth. He shows no commitment to the truth.

@@timmatteson3959how can you prove what truth is without citing your biases? Your truth is what you believe in, not what everyone must abide by.

@ellycd truth is truth. One's belief in it is irrelevant. Rob does not have "his truth". He has his opinion, which may or may not align with the teith.

Lee, its simple. Its because there is no scripture found in the Bible that he could've used to defend himself. Period.

Yes indeed.

The difference is rob knows better And should be judged

When you are ignorant and presume to know, that is the true danger. Rob spoke wisely, and virtuously.

It's true, but it's because people love their sin and the devil keeps persuading people that certain things aren't sins, when they are

Man you're right and Islam is inclining up because it will NEVER ALLOW EVIL TO BE RIGHT.

@@michaelcartmell9484 I'm really curious as to what you mean when you call Andrew "a typical prejudiced Christian". Is it prejudicial to believe what the Bible says about homosexuality?

When people cant express theological exegesis, we then call people names.. it's so fleshly... sorry your comment was followed by a fleshly mindset

@@nildameers3772 I agree. There is great irony in the accusation of "prejudice" being followed by name calling. If prejudice is a "preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience" than it stands to reason that anyone objecting to prejudice should be able to produce sound argumentation for their own point of view. What Michael Cartmell said was just emotional, non-rational name-calling, hardly a good place to hurl the accusation of being "prejudiced" from. To Cartmell: produce a sound argument. ... The silence speaks.

Yes, Andrew does an excellent job peeling back the onion at the end of the podcast and articulating "how you got here" reasoning. Rob appears to be caught flat footed at times during this conversation, offering very little value in the form of reasoning.

Andrew is awesome, RB flat footed, and no foundational truth

He’s interpreting the Bible as a season which is what we all do isn’t it

That idolatry and rebellion which is witchcraft when you put your belief above God

​@@amberandrews7829 There are different ways of interpreting. Exegesis is interpreting the Bible based on the words that are there and the context in which they are written. Eisegesis is interpreting the Bible through different worldviews. While you can do both, the only one that actually leads to answer the question "what does God say/think about 'X' issue?" is exegesis. Applying our modern worldview and sensibilities like Rob Bell is incapable of coming to any semblance of truth, because everything now comes down to interpretation. We should only evaluate a culture's idea of morality through God's word, we should never evaluate God's word through a culture's idea of morality because God is unchanging. He's not going to suddenly change his mind about what is and isn't considered sinful. In the Bible God has shown to work in people's lives and various cultures despite their sin, that does not mean he condones everything each of those people and cultures have done.

God does not equal Bible. God is within everyone, and most people are unaware, and this Universal Intelligence is quite clear. This world abounds with variety, and we homosexuals are part of that variety. Your Christian theology has deceived your better judgement. It's people like you who will be among the goats.

I agree Brooke I don’t understand the hate seen in these comments.

If you have problems for religious/cultural reasons, this can set you free: “On Human Suffering and the Concept of God” - the psychological origin of religious beliefs. neomodernistpoetry.blogspot.com/2018/11/on-human-suffering-and-concept-of-god.html or homoeroticpoems.blogspot.com/2018/06/on-human-suffering-and-concept-of-god.html

The bible also supports slavery, do you accept the bibles teachings on that?

Wrong, Moses and Paul seem to have issues with it. That's 2% of Biblical Scripture.

The questions are posed as having yes or no answers. They don't. It is like asking someone if they think sex between people of the opposite sex is good. Or something that God cheers on. There is always both a yes and no answer. There are so many times that heterosexual sex is wrong. The bible lists many times when it is wrong. Sometimes it is wrong even within marriage. I don't think God cheers a husband raping his wife for example. Some people believe that sex inside marriage without the purpose of procreation is sin. The question of whether or not sex between members of the same sex is evil is not a simple yes or no question. Rob Bell is careful to qualify his answers.

no, the person who is asking the questions is bending the scenario around, they are not on the same wave length and therefore cannot give / receive a balanced and rational conclusion

@@Bayleu1 But the difference with homosexuality in the Bible is that is always wrong.

@@Bayleu1 like what Paul said about it? 9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. (A)Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor [a]homosexuals, nor [b]sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.

@@jerryjamify It says that...

MT/// That is what the bible says, and the bible is wrong.

There is a difference between wrong, and against what You believe or what to be true. Hope You find what You are looking for, but if You are in that path, Repent, and receive Jesus , and enjoy everlasting life, it is that easy. Jesus loves, but We also offend him by our actions, and homosexuality is one of those actions. May GOD Bless You, and show You the Way to salvation(I just mentioned it to You , hint , hint).

Sorry, but it is not so, and it is in the Bible, the Holy Word of GOD, It is a great error for You to challenge the Bible, because it does not conform to Your beliefs and actions. Can You understand why it is an abomination?? Because GOD Created Man and Woman to become one Flesh, and to further the kingdom o GOD, MAN and MAN or Woman and Woman can not procreate anything. Can You see the issue here??

MT/// Your faith is misplaced. That quagmire of truth and fiction you call 'the holy word of god' is absolutely not what you think it is. As bible scholar Bart Ehrman has concluded, the bible is full of contradiction. discrepancy and error, and IS NOT the Word of God.

You are really providing Your 2 cents about Your viewpoint in a Christian site, really?? Good luck with that, and with Your beliefs, but do not come to blaspheme GOD and Jesus Christ here...

We are all sinners but we have repented and they dont want to repent and change their sinful ways

@@eduardoguerrero2791 it’s not a mf choice. :/

@@pickle248 any action is a choice. I'm not talking about attraction or temptation. I'm talking about the decision to participate in an action that the Bible says is sinful. In the same passage you quoted above, Jesus ALSO says "Go and sin no more." The adulterous woman made a choice and Jesus called it sin. He did not condemn her, but He told her to stop doing it.

@@robknight8144 so gay people are supposed to live in unhappiness all their life to serve an evil god? ok

@@robknight8144 The Bible doesn't say it's sinful. And adultery is very different from homosexuality, especially now that gay people are allowed to marry the people they love.

You’re right. He doesn’t reject anyone. We choose Heaven or Hell based on our rejection of His Word.

Amen John

It's because Christianity is a cult.

What does the radical God Jesus showed us look like?

You're right Rob Bell is on a whole other level. He is not a Christian.

@@johnhammons679 I think you like to dismiss anyone who doesn't believe like you. Have I missed your judgement or am I correct? Listen, you don't get to judge whether someone is a Christian or not. As a matter of fact, Christianity is a religion that was created by men. The person of Jesus didn't come to create a new religion a new religion. Jesus explains this to Pharisees. He stated that he came to establish the God's Dominion on earth and to unite the people back with God. I'm paraphrasing, of course. For you to say that Rob Bell is not a Christian, accurately, I can say that you are very judgemental. Judging is a sin, just in case you didn't know that.

@@tommyclineweaver I dismiss anyone or anything that is diametrically opposed to what the Bible teaches. And aren't you judging me by calling me judgemental? How is one united back to God?

No, God put God in that particular box. The "radical God" Jesus showed us when He was here is exactly the God who forbade same-sex sexual behavior and requires repentance. Jesus even said that not a jot nor a title would pass from the moral Law until He returned. He also approved of intellectual honesty And He wouldn't recognize Himself in the Jesus you imagine.

Cardboard Box Church compassion is the heart of God

@@theresnohell3144 amen. Jesus would appeal to compassion

I don’t think that Rob wasn’t prepared it’s just how raw and untagged dialog should go. That’s what I like about this video

We have to really listen to what the Bible says. Sin big or small is sin. When you have conviction you know you need to change it!

Yes, compassion IS the heart of God, as demonstrated by Jesus, when He said to the adulterous woman “Neither do I condemn you - go, and Sin No More.”

It doesn't matter the church (or 'religion')-- everyone of them has a chasm. Does not mean it's always about the issues you mentioned. There are other reasons ( differences in worship, beliefs) that causes splits within churches as well. The problem (over arching problem) is should homosexuals/lesbians be allowed to participate ( i.e allowed to be ordained as ministers, get married, etc.) within the church? The answer, according to the Bible is no. BUT does that mean we hate them or dis like them to the point where they are not welcome into our worship services? Does that mean we "kick them to the curb"? Mistreat them? Absolutely not. In my heart of hearts, I believe that is where the problem is.

When Andrew continuously puts words in Rob's mouth Iove the face he makes 19:35

The scandal of the church is that we can imagine that unity consists in accepting false teaching as of equal value with the clear teaching of Scripture. Such false unity is in fact nothing but division.

All of humanity is a tabernacle of Divine Presence, all! I agree with your sentiment.

@@daodejing81 What about Satanist? They were made to love God but they reject Him, and the Bible teaches us that those who make a practice of sinning are children of the devil not of God. So I have to partially disagree but will say that we should all try to be Tabernacles for God's presence

That "simple" question was a criminalizing, sucker punch for someone in the church community. You know that and I know that. Its not a simple question to answer outright without getting shunned from every side because of closed minded people. Also, I didn't hear Mr. Wilson answer too many questions at all. I heard Rob answer and respond many questions.. Your point?

Ben Wade Rob Bell didn't answer any questions, he dodged them. If anyone is going to question what is written in the bible they better have some evidence to support what they claim. Rob Bell's claims are based on feelings not on scripture. That is my point.

Don't get mad because you never got the answer you wanted.

Mene Tekel When someone asks “when did you stop beating your wife?” Failure to answer is not dodging if you wont accept any answer but a date which admits your guilt.

Jesus constantly answered a question by asking a question right? Pointing to deeper truth to the pharisees . Interesting

Amen!! 🙏

Rob spoke wisely.

@@daodejing81Foolish.

+Richard Fila (費睿哲) yeah? well, your fat....so there, I won the argument

+Richard Fila (費睿哲) It's the doctrine of demons. Only the devil can slide around the corners like that

+Richard Fila (費睿哲) We all have "off" days but this was my first exposure to Rob Bell and suffice it to say I'm not compelled to investigate him further. Also, the hair and the suit, Rob, the hair and the suit.

​@@draft1643ooooh .. no need to go low and personal.

Amen. Someone needs to slap him with that verse.

Praise God some people can actually read!

and judging others like u are brian? hmm....

Susan Malone That is a scripture from the New Covenant...it is not something I made up but rather it is The Word of God. are you going to accuse God of judging too?

I think Andrew was being a bully.

@@lexic6081 He was trying to turn Rob away from conforming to the world and it's view on things, we are commanded to do that in the Bible. It is not bullying to warn someone to not run into a burning building, it is loving and caring on the contrary. The Scriptures are extremely clear when it comes to the issue of homosexuality. It is a sin and sin leads to hell, we are also called to turn our brothers and sisters towards that path of life and away from error, Andrew was being loving in reality even if it doesn't appear that way to you.

@yaksohd it is actually not clear because the word homosexuality wasn’t added until newer reiterations of the Bible during the 80s. There’s actual scriptural proof that shows that the original scripture never mentions the word homosexuality. So this whole argument is moot.

@@LYRC11 Then you really don’t know history mate, sorry to burst your bubble but the earliest Christians taught that homosexuality was a mortal sin, we know this by looking at their writings, and the Greek and Hebrew Scriptures from the 1st century. All the ancient Churches of Christianity held it as a mortal sin and still do, Judaism has held it as a mortal sin since Leviticus, literally asked a Rabbi how serious they take the verses in Lev, they don’t even allow men to sleep in the same bed together (Orthodox Jews truly observing Judaism) the first canonical Bible which all Christians recognized as the word of God comes from the Catholic Church in the year 382AD, the first English translation of the Bible comes from the Catholic Church in the 1500’s, guess what? They all said it was a sin that would send you to hell if you participated in it, this is coming from scholars of Greek, Latin, and Hebrew, do not try to argue history with me mate. I will humble you as I just displayed by your own lack of knowledge on this subject, your argument is moot and not historically accurate but my prayers are with you.

@@LYRC11 And don’t not try to claim that “that was gotten rid of with the New Covenant” then you are not literate on Scripture aspects separating ceremonial laws from moral laws. Moral laws are binding and permit, the ceremonial laws were gotten rid of/changed. “While the Old Testament’s ceremonial laws could be repealed, its moral laws that forbade intrinsic evils like murder or adultery are forever binding.” Jesus confirms this in Matt 5:18, “For amen I say unto you, till heaven and earth pass, one jot, or one tittle shall not pass of the law, till all be fulfilled.” Jesus was speaking on moral laws as that’s what the whole Sermon on the Mount was about in hindsight. This would include the moral law of Levi. Just because progressive Christians want to fulfill their own lustful passions in this day and age does not mean God is okay with it or has ever been okay with it. Just how God isn’t okay with sexual relations outside of marriage, marriage is a covenant that can only take place between a man and a women as two men together or two females together cannot “come together and be made one flesh” this is referring to procreation. Two DNA’s form to create one New that has never existed but shares both species of mother and father. This cannot happen outside of a valid marriage. All Christians literally up until less than 70 years ago knew homosexuality was a sin as well, only in recent times have people started to “conform to the world” which goes against what the Bible tells us as we aren’t supposed to conform to the world we are supposed to take up our Cross and die to ourselves everyday. Your argument is just completely invalid when you actually understand history mate.

UreaSmith You probably eat soon for food and mix fabrics shave your face what are you

The world is reality, but you choose fantasy.

But yet you eat BACON

@@bohofoto6929 Yeah, so?

Bell is not a Christian, and he (Bell) knows it.

I used to think so too, but now see Rob having a poise of quiet confidence… in the careful examination he’s done on this issue. He knows what he believes, is wicked smart, knows the Bible as well as Andrew, and doesn’t need to peacock about it. A 20 minute podcast format will never have enough time to begin debating specific bible passages or the nuances of context… and Rob knows this.

Jamar did you know that the bible also said that owning a slave is Ok, and that eating Shrimp is an abominating?

Here we go again with another contradiction-hunter. I suggest before you attempt to play the tired game of using my own religions book against me, I suggest you understand both content and context. A lot of commands given in the Old Testament were for the Jews specifically. In regards to slavery, the context plays a huge deal into the intricacies of each slave. Very different than the type of slavery imposed on my ancestors. There were several forms which essentially, at the core, we're akin to indentured servanthood. I recommend some research from credible sources. Another point: it doesn't really matter what we think, if a person claims to be a follower of Christ. If God said we need to dye our hair pink every Saturday, so what? Even if j don't understand why, I'm always going to divert to trusting His way is best.

Jamar Dawson There are several passages in the New Testament that affirm slavery in context, did you know that in the past these verses were used in order to justify slavery and even fight a civil war. Do you agree with the context of these passages.

Amen! God's word is the same yesterday, today, and forever!

Jamar Dawson Amen. Oppose Bell. Oppose pseudo-marriage. Share the Gospel: www.viewtheStory.com/10895 .

then with all due respect, thank God you stepped away from pastoring!

@@alisonhardman7600 sex is binary, feelings aren't. Feelings won't get you to Heaven, but giving your life to Jesus and following His Word will.

@@TMcConnaughhay yeah, I thank God for it daily.

Only one of them believes in interpreting the Bible. Rob Bell believes in ignoring whatever he doesn't like. The Bible is not ambivilent on this matter.

Matthew Oakley yeah because Paul spoke English 😂😂😂

Jay Kutcher uhm, those are words translated in english sherlock.....

The passage you quoted refers to heterosexual people who abandon their opposite-gender relationships for same-sex prostitutes. It has no bearing on homosexuality. Have anything relevant?

Oh gosh.eyeroll.read the text according to the context!

The idea that Paul "said" something that was translated from its original language 2000 years ago and it's survived being printed by hand for distribution until the mid fourteen hundreds with the advent of the printing press-- never mind the endless translations and edits by men who were all as insecure about gay people as you are-- to believe what you are reading now is what he actually said is absolute insanity. The bible was compiled 80 to 500 years after the events took place. People get misquoted NOW with cameras and voice recorders. Have an ounce of historic empathy and maybe an ounce of humility.

Well spoken.

Just read the scripture. And by the way, people are offended by the truth, as Jesus said that believers will be hated just as they hated him. How can you understand what is right when someone doesn't bother to tell you what is wrong?

@@DB-dl5zm I don't believe the scriptures are right. Or at least, if that's what they say. Lol

I read Genesis and i see God created woman for man and gave a clear example of the institution of marriage (infact when discussing marriage Jesus referred to this and spoke of marriage as between one man and one woman) It's doesn't take an expert to realise God designed the male and female sexual/reproductive organs for each other. So when did every other sexual desire come into the human race? Well obviously when sin entered in after the fall and human sexuality became damaged. If we accept same sex practices must be acceptable because people desire them then we must conclude every other desire & lust people have outside of the one man one woman design in the Garden before sin must now also be ok. You say we shouldn't speak about these issues. I disagree. When i see the Bible under attack and Christian brothers & sisters dragged to court for standing up for God's word then i think it's time to speak up!! Remember John the Baptist lost his life for speaking out against sexual immorality in his day.

Thank you for being honest. That's how I feel to

Nuce that you guys feel a certain way but the real issue is your defense of how you interpret the Bible. 1 man 1 woman you say? Wellwhat if some say NO to that? In your view that is a NO to God and thus a sin. Well houston we have a problem, father Abraham, king David. Didn't they read Scripture! Of couse the Law came after Abraham but Abraham came after Genesis. So this cannot be used as an exclusive model otherwise the father of your faith lived in perpetual sin as well as David, remember the guy that had a heart after God. So as you grow in your interpretive exposure and maturity you may become less dogmatic and might even feel differently.

Crapp accidentally hit report spam sorry folks

+Ken Landry, You said, "I can only believe what my conscience insists on" or rather shouldn't you only believe what the Bible says because as a pastor and as a christian, the Bible is the foundation of our faith and all that we believe in.

Indeed. Good to remind hypocrites and bigots of that. Well done!

Yes, the terms we choose to use betray our position on these topics; sometimes pejoratively. For example, I try not to use the term "gay" but to use the term "homosexual" which I think is more real, but it also betrays my position on the matter.

Andrew is ignorant. His head is swimming in knowledge, but he is utterly ignorant.

Because that's the topic being talked about?? And it's evidently affecting Christians and obviously the world; and going contrary to scripture If you want a conversation on another sin, which are talked about in the same scriptures mentioned (New Testament that is) then I'm sure you'll find others. He was just being evasive which gets annoying to be frank

Love this comment!

+calum morrison The difference is that the Bible very clearly states that those who practice sexual immorality will not inherit the kingdom of God. The common argument among the pro gay "Christians" is to suggest that since the Bible is not clearly opposed to slavery which culturally we argue is sinful in itself, then we can reject the clear prohibition on sexual immorality. Using this logic we can systematically ignore every sinful Biblical prohibition. Instead of picking up your cross (death to your former way of life) and following Jesus. We CAN say "Lord,Lord" and not do what He says! Abiding in Christ is simply rationalizing whatever sin we are currently engaged in and dismissing it by saying "surely this isn't as bad as slavery!"

+J.D. Elliott Friend, your post is good. I have just one critique. Please don't lump gays as Christians. Those who call themselves Christians and still live a sinful lifestyle (not denying the flesh) are 'not' saved. In other words, they are False Converts. We (true Believers) are warned over and over in The Bible, DO NOT BE DECEIVED! And clearly, these false converts are deceived. "This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me" (Matthew 15:8)... To be 'truly' saved, one must be Born Again and do The Will of The FATHER. "But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him" (1 John 2:5)... Again: "For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother" (Matthew 12:50)... And again: "Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?" (2 Corinthians 13:5)... Friend, this is not aimed at you, I just get sick of so called Christians who have NO discernment! These people are not 'studying' The Bible as we are told to do (2 Timothy 2:15). And because of that, they will be destroyed (Hosea 4:6)! Woe to the 'false converts'!!! "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven" (Matthew 7:21)... Sorry for the rant.

+calum morrison There is 'no' oddness when it comes to slavery in The Bible. This is what The Bible says: "Knowing that whatsoever good thing any man does, the same shall he receive of the Lord, whether he be bond or free. And, you masters, do the same things unto them, forbearing threatening: knowing that your Master also is in heaven; neither is there respect of persons with him" (Ephesians 6:8,9)... Again: "Masters, give unto your servants that which is just and equal; knowing that you also have a Master in heaven" (Colossians 4:1)... Translation, masters are to 'treat' slaves fairly and not in a threatening manner. As you can see, this is far different from the satanic version that we see in the earth. And we also see from Scriptures that masters will be Judged by GOD for how they treated their servants. Also, The Bible is 'not' just a book! "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness" (2 Timothy 3:16)... Again: "But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God" (Matthew 4:4)... Translation, The Bible is the 'true' Christians instruction for 'pleasing' GOD and it's 'more' vital than food for a persons soul. "So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God" (Romans 10:17)... Again: "But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that comes to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him" (Hebrews 11:6)... So then, by reading and studying The Bible (once you become Born Again and filled with The HOLY GHOST), a 'true' Believer will have discernment and know a FALSE TEACHER (Rob Bell) when we hear them. "Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them" (Matthew 7:20)... Don't be deceived. "Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man sows, that shall he also reap" (Galatians 6:7)... "Examine yourselves, whether you are in the faith; prove your own selves. Know you not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, unless you are counterfeits?" (2 Corinthians 13:5)... Friend, you've been warned.

J.D. Elliott I get it. I just don't like the falsehood and the fake religious people who 'call' themselves Christians. But sadly, these are the times that we are living in. I truly feel for those who are deceived and going around deceiving others. Their end will be disastrous! To those who don't know GOD, we (true Believers) look ignorant and like bigots because we believe and follow what's written in The Bible. Again, it's sad because GOD'S Wrath is about to begin. And we know from Scriptures that it will be 'cruel'. "Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it" (Isaiah 13:9)... Woe to the unsaved!

Rob Bell is wrong and yes he will have to give an account for that.

Barb this Rob bell is what the bible calls a False teacher and is with OPRAH spreading a made up gospel . Read in the bible what happens to these false teachers. Its not good. Hes spreading Satan's messages not Gods.

Barb Spencer - we all have to give an account to God. I expect that when I die, I will be called to account and to repent for times when I showed too much grace and approval to my neighbor, and for times when I did not show near enough grace and approval to my neighbor. Rob Bell will have to do that. You will have to do that. We all will have to do that. Given all that I've seen and read and encountered in the church, I'm more dreading the times when I showed too little grace as opposed to too much.

Barb Spencer Yes, Barb, you have rightly spoken! Anybody ever read what Paul had to say in Romans 1? Of course, what did Paul know about anything?

Jim20 Oh brother....