LOOK I don’t know how more people I have to explain this: a calorie IS a measure of energy in the same way a metre is a measure of length and a kilo is a measure of weight at least in the civilised world. Stop with this nonsense
Everyone knows that a calorie is a unit of measurement. When people say "a calorie is not a calorie" all they mean is that 600 calories worth of meat is going to have a different effect on the human body than 600 calories worth of corn syrup. It's a bit of poetic license, like the old song "a house is not a home, a chair is not a chair."
I am a retired Doc who met Bob Lustig at a lecture at the U of California maybe 20 or 25(?) years ago. he discussed Fructose and its evils if memory serves. I was entranced. This is the first time I have seen his face and it is a thrill to see and hear him again. I really learned a lot of new things even though I thought I remembered all those biochemical pathways. What a joy to see him again and I will be buying his book(s)!!
If he's correct , a lot of health problems could be treated effectively simply by refraining from Foods with Fructose and Added Sugars ....(thereby reducing liver Fat , and elevated Insulin resultant from it).
I don't buy it. If we look at the people of Sardinia, they eat whole grain bread, pasta, fruit, etc. They have a long life span, and virtually no metabolic syndrome. I conclude it's the chemicals in our food, chemicals in our water, HFCS, excess table sugar. What are the people of Sardinia doing right?
Yep, met a lot of these guys 20 years back at health freedom expos and they were all talking of the cutting edge stuff and all the attendees were mostly crazy weirdos
I totally agree. My mom died young (of pancreatic cancer), and after reading "The Anti-Cancer Life," I radically changed my diet. Everything from mood, brain fog, energy, cholesterol, etc., radically improved, and with no meds.
This is the man that caused me to really look at what I was ingesting and how much it had to do with how I was feeling. I am 100% a sugar addict and have used this term long before I heard him talk on the subject. I labeled my Grandmother as one many years ago. I am not 100% there yet but have given up almost all processed foods and a big one was anything containing Gluten. I was a chronic migraine/cluster headache sufferer since childhood ( averaging 3 a week) . I have had exactly one mild headache since I made this change. When I eat poorly the arthritis pain returns to my hands and knees as well as Gerd flareups worsening along with eczema. I am convinced but it is hard to give up the habits of a lifetime even though my body benefits.. the brain still craves the garbage. I am most concerned with the risk of diabetes and heart disease. I am recommitting myself after this talk. Thanks Nate from a fellow Wisconsinite.
Oh boy do I know the sugar addiction problem at 64 having been eating high sugar processed foods most if my life but have now woken up since February this year upward battle but getting there
@@lindaallen2412 It's so tough to give up. It seems to be in everything. I've eaten Keto for years and am now a Carnivore but I applaud anyone who chooses to try to eliminate sugar from their diet no matter what dietary protocol you follow.
I devoured the book Metabolical. It completely changed how I saw health overall, and I reference it frequently. I’m not medically trained in any way, but Dr. Lustig makes sense, and I’m so grateful for his work.
Corporate greed is government mandated here. Poisoned our system of governance as we worship the golden calf. Root cause of many of our problems. Another great interview, thanks
Nate, thank you so much for posting this interview. Everyone that we each of us care about needs to listen to this about 10x. I've been eating whole foods, predominantly organic, for 50 years, and I can tell you it has really paid off. I weigh 111 lbs, am 5'3", have no chronic diseases and never get sick, despite MN weather, and all the coughing and sniffling that goes on here from Fall to Spring. In pursuing improvements to my own health, I became highly suspicious of anything processed or unnatural in 1973, and as a result I never ate margarine (and never used teflon). PFOS notwithstanding, it's never too late to start eating real food. I made my career in natural health back when the movement first began on the West coast and we called it "holistic." I can say with confidence that anyone can turn their health around and stay healthy just by eating what grows out of the ground -- especially healthy, nutrient rich, composted living soil. Americans are biochemically addicted, but what underlies all of that is that Americans habitually use food as a substitute for feeling their emotions, and learning how to deal with them responsibly in a healthy way. Half of what underlies the average dietary problem is using food as a mood crutch. Once you get rid of all the processed food and sugar, it takes about 3 months of sticking with it to get over the worst of the cravings. 90 days, folks. It's not nearly the horrible ordeal that everyone makes it out to be. That is, if you stick with it. And especially the first 3 mos to a year, depending on the state of your health when you began, there can be no snitching -- no little "treats" and exceptions. Once you regain stable metabolic health, you might be able to cheat -- but it's unlikely you'll even want to... But if you go back to eating as you did before, all the cravings will come right back. So will the weight, and so will the bad health. Sorry, that's just the way it is. You have to choose one or the other: feeling great because you're genuinely healthy, or living the American life of pretense, addiction, obesity and ill health. You can make it easier on yourself with good Chinese medicine from a qualified Chinese doctor + acupuncture, to help your digestive organs start working properly again. And I recommend finding help learning how to stop repressing your feelings, and how to responsibly deal with communicating feelings as a way life. Instead of using food to shove them away. Hope this helps somebody. BTW, feeding my dogs zero anything processed, all whole, real food, according to what they evolved to eat (it's different than what humans need -- you need to study up to do it right) worked beautifully for them, too. Shiney coats, healthy, energetic, beautiful teeth, sweet breath, smelled lovely all the time without any perfumed shampoos.
Your comment really helped me. At 69 (!), I am certainly at a crossroads - as a carb/sugar addict -- and 'stuffer' of emotions. (I like Dr. Gabor Mate & his books on addiction and his latest book, 'The Myth of Normal: Trauma, Illness and Healing in a Toxic Culture' for this.) AND - I now understand FAR BETTER my parent's and grandparent's health problems. Think margarine and the false idea that 'processed foods are more 'modern', cleaner and healthier' kind of marketing they were exposed to - to the point of making housewives/Mothers -- not just sick, but burdened by guilt about keeping up with 'what's modern' and buying what their sugar & carb-addicted children were clamoring for, etc. Yes. think margerine and additives galor, and glyphosate and the food revolution. And ignoring overpopulation and Better GDP being the right MODERN measure of well-being! NOT. I think about watching what my parent's health went through -- things so awful and life draining, this 'dying by inches'. So hard to watch and deal with for them and for their children (and frankly, so costly to my life and outlook, for example.) And despite all this awareness, still finding oneself 'addicted' to the mood-altering habit of overconsumption AND craving too muchcarbs (pasta, good bread, cake) and sugar (which I don't eat much of, but the carbs convert to.) I am finding the techniques the book 'The Glucose Goddess' from young biochemist, Jessie Inchauspie, helpful!) So your comment, 'The Flying Brain' are spot on -- and very confirming, encouraging and helpful. Appreciated this.
I watched Dr. Lustig's presentation "Sugar: The Bitter Truth" well over a decade ago. Made a big impact on my life. Great to see you have him on Nate. Your sharing this may well save someone's life. (Hopefully many someone's.)
I've been following Robert Lustig for a long time, but this was my first encounter with Nate Hagens. It was really encouraging to see this interaction between two highly intelligent, well-informed, and concerned citizens.
He’s talking about hexing. When an oil is heated to a smoking point it is turned into a carcinogen. That’s how they process vegetable oil, corn oil , cotton seed soybean and canola oil. That’s why right out of the bottle you’re already consuming a compromised product, which, then intern, causes inflammation. There is meaning behind a label on a bottle of olive oil, when it says “cold, pressed “
@@davealan2541 The beauty of the interwebs, and YT in particular, is the ability to go back >10 yrs and find someone's work, etc. etc. I've been listening to Nate's latest podder talk on AI with Daniel Schmachtenberger. 3hrs of their back and forth.
I've also been listening to and viewing much of Dr. Lustig's seminars, podcasts appearances, and documentary appearances on RU-vid. He's easy to listen to and watch, and he is talks are very informative.
I have learned a lot from just watching Roberts various videos. Dr. Lustig provides excellent information presented such that we can understand the complexity of the human cell. The key is that he distills the complicated down to the essential facts. 👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽
We live in Los Angeles. In our neighborhood at least, the obvious connection of poor diets/high sugar consumption w/ poor (social) behaviours, poor (social) psychologies, a disproportionately large obese population, poor physical health of individuals, astronomical healthcare cost, collapsing social structures, etc. is startling.
Just another Democrat Intellect....ignoring the consequences of his priorities...offering a poor and unlikely solution. Less preaching helps everyone. The future always proves science wrong.....
@Nate Hagens, I've been watching a lot of Dr. Lustig and many other luminaries on the subject, but this one is certainly the best. The way you drove and led him was very impressive and in the end you got the best of the best that he has to offer. You are a very smart person. Congratulations. My gratitude for this incredible work that you have done here. Greetings from Sao Paulo, Brazil
I am from Recife Brazil, been in the US for forty years, and I agreed with Dr Robert Lustig, eat real food people. I am 71 years old and my mother 95 and neither one of us take medication and we both in perfect health. I am still working, hike about 20 miles a week and and been on Kito diet for three years. Love Dr Robert Lustig and I think he should be President.
@@rosalialagamba8683 So good to see that there are other brazilians like me interested in these matters, live longer in perfect state of health. Cheers Rosalia.
In addition to your outstanding observations, Lustig also talked on some topics that I have not seen covered before… and I’ve seen at least 30 interviews of Lustig. Outstanding!
Wow, loved this interview. Dr. Lustig is, indeed, so knowledgeable and I always enjoy listening to him.. He explains so succinctly, and I've learnt so much from him.
Dr. Lustig is an awesome speaker. I have been watching a lot of the podcasts and talks here on RU-vid. I can't get enough of it. I guess that makes me a Lustigoholic. If I have to be some kind of holic that's the better kind I guess. Nate, I was hit in the gut hard when I first heard about this stuff a couple weeks ago when I first saw Jessie Inchauspé. Now I've changed my eating habits and trying to get it through to my wife and daughter to stop eating the crap.
The part about lower body temperature was particularly interesting to me. I'm currently working with a naturopathic doctor to reverse hypothyroidism and part of the protocol is taking my temperature every morning. I wondered why this was so important but now I'm learning how a low temperature can affect many body functions, in my case a low functioning thyroid. Fascinating. Thank you for the interview. 👍
I think the thyroid affects the body temperature ...(as opposed to the body temperature affecting the thyroid) .hypothyroidism results in feeling too cold . hyperthyroidism results in feeling too warm.
Yes, sugar is THE gateway drug. It was my first drug as well, eating lots of candy and drinking lots of soda from an early age. I think alcoholism is also basically a sugar addiction. I didn't keep drinking after being buzzed because I wanted to get more buzzed, but rather because it started to feel like a hunger for more.
Alcohol and soda drinks both cause the Liver to become Fatty and inefficient . The sugar in these beverages has the same health affects. Who would think soda could affect us the same way alcohol can.?
I agree. I think alcohol addiction is somehow related to insulin resistance but I haven’t figured out exactly how yet. (I’m a sober alcoholic of 9.5 years, btw).
I drink almost no soda and have very little alcohol -- though I enjoy it a lot when I drink it! My problem is other carbs - pasta, good-so-called health bread, and cake -- all of which I find utterly delicious and I CRAVE. You might say I get 'buzzed' from them! Dr/Mark Hyman's work and podcasts have begun to help me to see that the foods I crave (those carbs, all with gluten - and often more glyphosate when made the USA, sadly) -- are used or converted or recognized in the body as if they were sugar. Mark H says ' 'the body can't tell the difference'. So that is why the work of 1) intermittent fasting and 2) 'The Glucose Goddess' and 'The Glucose Revolution' (books) and things like the order of food and starting with a savory breakfast, vinegar, and mild exercise after meals -- and so on - suggestions by biochemist Jessie Inchauspie are helping. I 'must' ultimately conquer the cravings -- and the psychological addition to 'stuffing emotions' with food. Ditto, buy most of my food at farmer's markets (organic if at all affordable, also) and from regenerative-Ag, local if possible sources. And of course, we have to vote in the right pro-science, pro-ethic (People over Profits) people. It's a SOCIAL problem....and will bankrupt us all if we do not change.
This was one of your best episodes yet. I can’t wait to see him on again. I’m sold on cutting out sugar and have discussed it with family and friends already. We are going to try our best to stop consuming sugar. Thank you for this eye opening education
I've done pretty well at cutting "added sugars" from my diet for a little over two weeks. Mainly cut out instant oatmeal for breakfast and cookies or ice cream, etc., for late night snack. But I still consume a fair amount of sugar in the form of apples, bananas, and occasional other fruits. I feel like my skin is healthier now, my sh!t has almost no odor, and I have less inflammation in my muscles and joints after exercise. So far so good, and hopefully it just keeps getting better. Anyway, good luck to you and your family!
@@brushstroke3733 Like the doc said, _real food_ is the key. Fruit has fiber which helps block the absorbtion of those sugars as well as feed your gut bacteria. Dr. L's mantra is _protect the liver, feed the gut._
Wonderful to see the confluence of ideas here and the linkage between some of our most serious problems. This is how we develop more informed action lists for responding.
I am so addicted to sugar! Im on the carnvore diet, but as a teacher, there are treats everywhere. I have slipped up many times but always come back to no sugar. This content really helps. And in 1 week, summer will be easy to stay away from sugar and carbs.
Have bits of bacon & butter handy. I thought I would "treat" myself to a tablespoon of vanilla ice cream last week & paid a heavy price for it by dealing with a horrible migraine that stole my whole day off because of the pain & mostly bedridden all day. It's often just NOT worth it.
The sugar thing is REAL! I used to carry around bags of candy in high school so much that my nickname was "candy man" and drank sodas all day long throughout college.... While I never gained weight, I imagine it had its negative effects. Now, I don't eat sugar hardly at all, and my taste is completely different. Sweet foods are now disgustingly sweet. I can't touch candy or soda. But the most important part is that I DON'T CRAVE ANY OF IT! Just get away from it for a few weeks, and you'll see. Your taste will change completely!
This was a great dialogue with lots of actionable information to process on an individual and societal level to potentially help solve seemingly intractable situations. Definitely keep this dialogue going in further episodes.
Thanks for the conversation! I'm amazed human beings have survived the barrage of assaults to our well-being from the air, the water, the food (GMO and highly processed), the drugs and pharmaceuticals, along with horrific and dishonest advertisements, commercials, and MSM messaging. We are a miracle!
Dr.. Lustig, if you scan through and read the comments on here, can you please, please make a trip out to the north coast of California and hold a seminar at the Van Duzer Theater at Cal Poly Humboldt. Your knowledge and advice is desperately needed here. Thank you. Be well. Cheers and Namaste.
Simple solution (in principle, though not necessarily in implementation): make sugar producers, alcoholic beverage producers, and trans-fat and seed oil producers pay for all healthcare costs except injuries caused by physical event (car collision, animal bite, fight, bullet or knife wound, falling, etc.) This would make the costs of sugar, alcohol, and seed oils much higher and would make processed foods much more expensive, thus lowering demand for them. In turn, lowered demand for them would mean less healthcare costs so that the prices of these goods would stabilize and not continue to skyrocket as less were sold but healthcare burden remained the same. In order to make this possible and give people time to transition, implementation would be ramped over a ten year period. In the first year, those producers would only pay 10% of healthcare costs for all chronic illnesses. In the second year, they would pay 20% of those healthcare costs. Third year, they'd pay 30% of those costs, etc. The most difficult part to implementing this plan would be determining how much liability each of those industries would shoulder. We'd need an algorithm to try to target how much each of these industries contributed to the illnesses that caused the healthcare costs and then improve this algorithm constantly to make the percentages paid by each industry fair relative to their culpability in causing the chronic illnesses. All in favor say "Ay". All who disagree say "nay."
Wow! What an amazing interview! lately The Great Simplification has been going deeper and also expanding the inquiry in a way that reveals so many interconnections in meaningful an actionable ways. Each week I am more grateful for the way you seek out vital information and analysisrather than the convnetional fluff that contains more spectacle than substance. Thank you for another great interview, and I would love to hear another interview with Dr. Lustig soon.
Excellent convo! I took notes (until I got too engrossed lol). I removed the sugar and salt substrates from food and over time my food enjoyment has increased to a point WAY ABOVE where it was with processed food. Food now a nuanced and beautiful bouquet, or maybe a sunset or hey this meal has forest invocations. Like so many things, the beauty is in the details. Food has become a social and a community (chatting with the farmers at the market and such) activity that enriches life at the most fundamental, visceral and sustained levels. Definitely a 2 marshmallow reward.
Brilliant interview. I've been on a keto diet now for a little over 3 months now and lost just over 25 lbs. Love learning more about why that happened. Haven't felt this good since I was a kid.
Please be very very careful. Keto diets place very heavy stress on the kidneys because they have to clean up all of the excess protein you're consuming, and they cannot handle that long term (because human beings aren't meant to consume only protein and fat long term -- it's just something we can do in a pinch, or if we're pushed out to the margins of where humans can live, like those living near the polar circle have been). And that's why our bodies strongly discourage maintaining them (just look how your body responds once you eat anything containing even mild amount of starches and sugars). Wrt weight loss: especially when you were overweight or obese previously, any diet that you stick to consistently will allow you to lose weight. The challenge is finding a dietary pattern that you can maintain all your life. And for that, keto diets (luckily, because they will destroy your body when maintained long-term) are hopeless.
@@fjdhaan Thanks for the concern, but no. Your information is either out-of-date or influenced by someone with something to sell. For more information, check out the book "Metabolical" by Lustig. And I'll be playing tennis at age 100, right after my bacon and eggs breakfast.
@@PatrickCordaneReeves If you go for a keto diet that's 90% fresh vegetables and legumes, then maybe. But as you point to, keto's appeal mostly comes from the insane notion that bacon and eggs should be the centerpiece of one's diet.
@@fjdhaan Nothing insane about it. We've just been brainwashed by decades of propaganda that meats and saturated fats are evil. Farthest thing from the truth. Sugar is what kills ya.
Aaaahhh, awesome interview Nate (new listener here). Dr Lustig I think cares more than just about "fixing the problem'. I'm fairly recent follower of his too but based on his books I've read ("Metabolical", "The Hacking Of..") I'm convinced that he cares most about is humanity (while tipping over the apple cart!). And the question about what to have to dinner? Nothing - let's fast and and maybe pick up our forks about mid-day tomorrow!!! =P
With all the many RU-vid nutrition/physiology presenters, a listener eventually picks a few whose hypothesis they can believe. Dr. Lustig is one of my few.
Nate, your podcast is the most important and informing podcast in my life today! I send them to my friends regularly.Thank you for the work you do!!! ❤
This was so good. I am always interested in health - especially metabolism as it pertains to the garbage food and supermarkets, especially in the United States.
When this popped up on my feed I assumed it was one of the nutrition based creators that had published it. Then I saw it was Nate and was pleasantly surprised at the overlap of two of my interests. A great interview!
Pills can't reach us at a cellular level ...so they can't cure certain illnesses ,(only lessen symptoms) .Guess what can reach us at that cellular level ?...whole foods !.
One of the big powerful senators from Rhode Island I think played a big powerful and controlling role in when and how the Federal Reserve was set up. Anyway he was so powerful because he was the sugar senator. Rhode Island, maybe it was Connecticut. One of those. It was the home base for Big Sugar back then. There was an interesting book about how the Federal Reserve was formed, forget the title.
Thank you Dr. Robert Lustig and Nate for making a convincing discussion on the havoc that processed foods bring to our health, and showing its link to other problems in society. Having done this, you showed the need for another "tectonic shift," - this time in the field of nutrition. For this shift to happen, you pointed out the role of education. I believe that the educational process will involve not only the young humans but also their mentors (and this may involve some curricular changes in their training), people involved in food preparation which includes parents and those in school canteens; and people involved in policy making and legislation, as pointed out by Nate. One of the problems to address is how to disseminate faster information about the role of food in the promotion of health. I suggest that one way of doing this is the incorporation of relevant information in textbooks in health and science. (When all these have commenced, I wonder how the powerful food industry will react/ respond.) The problem is complex indeed, but I still share your optimism in the power of education. Thank you again Dr Lustig for all that you do for humanity, especially for the young humans. Whatever success is achieved as a result of your efforts will benefit the people of this generation and all other upcoming ones.
In my view, in order to start significant change from the food industry is for customers to reject bioengineered food ingredients and demand unbleached and fruits and vegetables in their unadulterated form. Same goes for all meat, fish and fowl. Grass, free range meat from unadulterated fields planted in naturally nutrient packed soil.
Thank you both - immensely fascinating and necessary to share. For whatever challenges we face in the metacrisis, the food choices we make multiple times a day can at least move our own needle towards better health and future wellness.
I think all, but especially the youth should work in an Americorp/Peace Corp sort of group on regenerative farms. I love episodes like this. It's important to work on self first, then you're better equipped to help others. Thanks I want you to interview a woman about metabolic health, because women have a very unique set of challenges, over and above men, with regards to insulin resistance. Dr. Sarah Gottfried comes to mind as a good interview.
Dr Robert Lustig is my hero. I will vote for him for President. I am 71 years of age and I am health thanks for my love for real food. People used to make funny of me for the fact I always talked about how bad process food is for us. I don’t even by ground beef, I grind my own. Any way now I have a very inteligente, hard working Dr Robert Lustig to Back me up. Please vote for Dr Robert Lustig for President.
Very good podcast. I listened to it twice. I have been doing intermittent fasting for a couple of months with good results so I was pleased to hear about the molecular mitochondria connection. Lustig is spot on with his criticisms of industrial agriculture but the sugar in fruit and vegetables is much more complex than just producing sweeter varieties. Fifteen years ago I borrowed a refractometer and tested my produce against supermarket produce on the Brix scale. The supermarket produce was low and my own produce was off the scale. I haven't bothered comparing them since. I know that my produce is packed with nutrients and has a "sweeter" taste. The reason is because of the work I put into my soil. Crop rotation, cover crops, green manures, composting, and mulching are all part of my routine, as well as organic fertilizer and soil amendments. It may be prohibitive to buy even organic fertilizer in the future so I am also feeding my weeds as a reservoir of nutrients. A little background on the sugar issue and the Brix scale from the Web: "Sucrose, glucose and fructose are all simple carbohydrates or simple sugars. Glucose and fructose are individual sugar units and are also called monosaccharides. Sucrose is a sugar molecule made up of both glucose and fructose so sucrose is called a disaccharide." "A Brix value, expressed as degrees Brix (°Bx), is simply how many grams of sucrose are present per 100 grams of liquid solution measured on a scale of one to 100." As I say, it is more complex than just developing Pink Lady apples to sell sweeter apples to children.
Also supermarkets have conventionally grown fruits and vegetables that are picked way before they were ripe making them less tasty. If we eat fruits and vegetables that are picked and eaten right away instead of being trucked cross country, they would taste much better. Produce from farmers market inevitably tastes much better than produce at the supermarket.
I have a great desire to create a hybrid business that grows/raises high quality food for very expensive restaurants. The farms would be in poor parts of states and would provide jobs and sell produce very cheaply to the community as well as supply produce for the restaurants which would be located in the affluent parts of a state. Hopefully the idea of operating at a loss in certain areas in order to provide resources to communities by selling at very high rates to wealthier demos and marketing this could be applied in other ways.
Corrupt business and government fused together is corporatism (fascism). Tolstoy pointed out in his essay “Government Is Violence” that government, rightly understood, is to use power to protect the innocent and powerless from the powerful bullies. the problem is that the powerful bullies usually manage to buy the government. Then we have a problem of dismantling the corrupt corporatist system and getting back to good government. An ages-old cycle we have not managed to grow out of…?
