Why not show the difference? More granular? Adhesive better? What’s the difference? When you gave your opinion on shingles (good/better/best) you demonstrated visually why one was better than another. This video didn’t teach the homeowner why they need a high performance product.
This video had different purpose: for home owner to ask contractor what ice and water he uses because many don’t specify. We are working on ice and water barrier guide, but there are so many brands in so many markets, we can’t review 100 products. But we want contractors to be transparent about brands they use and price they pay and home owners to be aware about those who are cheating by j stalking cheap to cut corners and increase profits.
The reason he didn’t mention the difference is, because it all does the same thing. Kind of seemed like he was beating around the bush. Expensive ice and water doesn’t give you a better roof, but it is required with some warrantys, good selling point, and is SOMETIMES safer. Any actual roof installers know that roof ventilation and proper installation are 100 times more important than ice and water brand. I don’t agree with a lot of this video.
Hard to do a review on products and let the public know that the brand you are installing has an inferior product. OC as well as all others have entry level ice and water that should not be installed up north.
Not to mention there are a few brands of shingles that easily get marked up by walking on them in even temperatures around 50 Fahrenheit. Ya it might look good, nail good or whatever, but any roofer that knows something about shingles know that some brands can easily be marked up by your shoes while installing, causing the granules to fall off and make obvious black tar marks on the shingle. Something that should've definitely been mentioned/covered. Hard to believe you missed going over this fact when yall act so knowledgeable about shingles.
I’m planning to purchase my ice and water underlayment (Grace brand from Loews , I get it 1/3-1/4 off for bulk price; I’ll buying 7 rolls, and I’m purchasing my roofing material,; is this a good move; I’ve had several estimates and they all gave me different amounts of material (asphalt shingles) I don’t know who to trust, at least I know the quality I’m getting if I buy my own and have it installed,:: please text me back with your comment
This guy's channel should be marketed by all of the good roofing companies. If I was a sales rep I would be showing clients these unbiased videos. Thanks for helping humans!
@@southern_sunfried_adventures the other 15% is shed by the significantly cheaper underlayment I would assume. The insurance discount is a good point tho
Dmitry, When my wife & I did the tear-off, sheathing inspection & de-nailing of our 1875 sq. ft. homes roof, I decided I wanted to do the best job we could. Sometimes we have wind gusts in S.W. Oregon that can exceed 60 MPH. During the tear-off, we noticed dozens of nails had worked their way up & right through the shingles overlaying them. They were electroplated and didn't grip very well. I couldn't find hot-dip galvanized for coil guns, so I went with a barbed / serrated stainless steel type that are typically used along the coast near saltwater. Kind of expensive, but I only wanted to do this once. Some times we get heavy snow. One year 32 in. on the ground. Our roof is a 3 in 12 pitch, so it's not very steep. I bought the best Ice & water shield that Grace makes and did the entire roof with it, wrapping it over the edges to be covered by the rake and drip-edges, trimmed off at the bottom edges. Used Owens Corning Oak ridge 50 yr. warrantied shingles, 1/2 in. beyond the drip-edge supported by the roll out starter course. Used a 50 yr. warrantied butyl rubber shingle adhesive under the shingles around the entire perimeter to prevent wind from lifting off shingles. I only wanted to do this once and sleep well at night. Cost for all the materials was about $3,800, took the wife and I about 5 days to do the whole job. ( She is such a trooper! She layed 'em out while I nailed 'em down and we're both in our 60's . )
dude...I think that is fantastic. I'm in my 60's and a hardcore DIYer, but reroofing my 2 story house (in SW Idaho) is too much for me. I bow to you sir, as I am not worthy...
Wow. Thank you for this. I’m looking to do this with my husband. Our roof is very steep though, but we can’t find anyone to do what we want. I think materials were around 8500$ for what I want and 30,000$ for someone else and cheaper materials.
Well that grace is probably the best thing you could have done for your roof. You should never have a leak. God speed to the crew that has to tear off that roof 45 years from now
I replaced my roof in 2017, mostly on my own, 960 sq ft house and garage, but added overhangs on gable ends and had to build in a cricket or hip in a flat valley between the garage and house where the roofs met. Took most of the summer with the addons. I was 57 at the time, had some help from my 80yo father cutting plywood and handing it up, GF and son in law both helped laying out shingle too. Had to deal with rain in the beginning a couple times and leaking into the kitchen. But it's done and hope to not do it again. Quotes from contractors were all high and I about gave up partway through it but the finishing bid was $10k and I had the materials there already. Bid from another one was $16k. Non of those included the added overhangs and mods I wanted/needed. Good job on you 2 getting it done together.
A lot of these company’s hire subcontractors to do the job while they don’t do anything and they don’t know how to do the job. materials is cheap and a lot of time they pay cheap as well and home owner are paying thousands of dollars more then what your roof will cost. looks like these guys read the manual of installation but when it comes to installing he wouldn’t know how to do some details in the roof. Stop wasting your money with people that don’t do anything and if there is a problem contractor calls the roofer for answers to questions they don’t know
This a load of crap just like ice n water tell em what its like to tear off that crap might as well just rip up the plywood it has its place just not everywhere ive tore off 175 year old homes an the wood was like new condition its all about staffers an paying attention to nail placement an roofing books
To say a contractor isn't a good contractor, if they don't use ice and water, is complete non sense, and you shouldn't be shaming a contractor that doesn't use it, and it doesn't make them any less than someone that does, because if you know how to properly install a good roof, then it isn't going to last any longer than someone that uses ice and water and will still last as long as the warranty is good for, so stop making it sound like you are so much higher than other company's, that's why I'm going to stop watching you from now on, because you judge other company's that doesn't use the materials that you think they should
@Roofing Insights is not a requirement so stop acting like your just following rules because if it's was a requirement than everyone would obviously do it, like not using staples anymore, you can't use staples anymore for shingle application, so nobody does, now that's a requirement, and how come you have never shown one of your jobs yet, show some of your work, instead of just talking about it, and asking that man how many ice and water shield rolls he uses every job, was the dumbest question I've ever heard someone ask, like really, every job is a different size usually, so that question was such a rookie question, I can't believe you even asked that question, how many rolls you use per job on average,lmao,I don't think you even know how to roof, I've never seen you do it one time yet!
If your counting on ice and water to keep your roof from leaking you did something wrong in the first place.In alot of climates and roof applications ice and water isnt even needed.
@@DQ-su6qf Same. We use I&W barrier in valleys, around A/C units/skylights, sometimes on roof to wall transition. In the northern parts of my state which get heavy snowfall and much colder temps. yes we use 2 courses of I&W along the eaves. IRC requires 24" inside interior wall.
Thanks for all your videos. I have to say i disagree with most of this video. First off you are putting fear into customers that they will be ripped off by their roofing contractor, why do that? As far as warranty, OC warranty lets you submit which OC products you used when you register the warranty. If you only used OC shingles and hip and ridge, thats what gets a warranty. Watch from 6:30 and you go from telling us the differences between high end and low end ice and water shield is “stickiness” and then ramble on about how the higher cost product is less slippery to work on. If anything Grace is the most slippery, have you personally ever worked on any ice and water shield ??? Are there any actual tests between grades of ice and water or are you using the “More expensive means better quality” approach. Please talk about the importance of installing synthetic over the ice and water shield so the next company to do the roof is not replacing plywood or spending hours prying shingles off, which you can never get it all. We are all coming into this where ice and water was put everywhere. Complete nightmare to try and get the shingles off. Up selling to a premium ice and water is a sales tactic. Thats what homeowners should be told. I apologize to rag on this but I feel the tone of the video is to only use “premium + expensive” ice and water shield or your roof will fail and that a Contractor who does not use it will not do a good job.
Never in Video we recommend or suggest "upgrade" or "upsell" but the truth is that many home owners are paying for premium and getting economy. We don't install most expensive because we don't believe in it, but we believe in transparency about all materials.
Your right about the grace. Very slippery. All the roofers are using ice shield now. Most of the roofs were tearing off we’re just done with felt and it worked for all those years. Everyone is brainwashing customers with ice shield. Not sure it’s needed in most cases. I do all me roofs with Deckbase at the eaves and valleys and have no issues.
Totally agree. Lots of peel + stick everywhere = we have to rip off the osb and replace with new costing the clients huge degraded plywood replacement charges. Otherwise the new roof is garbage as you have shingles over a lumpy mess. Anyone know of an Ico brand that doesn't bund to shingles?
I live an work for a roofing company down south. we don't always use ice & water on an entire roof. But when we do we don't buy our materials from Home Depot. We have distributers we buy from. So that price comparison may not always work. I agree that contractors need too be transparent. It's so important to do your homework before you hire someone to do your roof!
Don't forget to check with your local Building Dept. to see if a permit is required for re-roof. We require a permit to ensure that the contractor is licensed and bonded, that they install drip edge as required by the IRC, that existing or new plywood is installed in the correct orientation and nailed to the minimum requirements, and to check if they have installed the proper venting. Don't trust a contractor that wants to skirt around the rules.
I noticed you too my husband's comment down. Why? because we put in a roof which will last 50+ years? So let's see how your integrity is. ......We repaired all wood sheathing + added a 2nd layer & used 1" ply on all eaves. AND on all of the eves we primed & painted all 6 sides of the ply before installing new ply over the eaves. ...... We used "Grace Brand" ~ "Ice and Water Shield" on our entire roof. THEN we used Grace Tiger-paw as a SECOND underlayment on top of that in case we ever nave to replace shingles. NOT LIKELY THOUGH since we went with top-of-the-line shingles from MALARKEY. ADDITIONALLY - THIS IS HOW WE saved 35% off our energy bill permanently. AND, prepared our roof for flawless solar installation [Note the 2nd layer of ply]: a] we put in soffit vents every 28 inches. b] we inspected all electrical and plumbing in the attic. c] we installed a sun tunnel into every room needing sunlight. d] we installed thermostatic attic vents into the gable ends of our roof. e] we installed ceiling vents to evacuate heat or odors if necessary. Switches on timers. f] we added a Catwalk+Lighing to make all of this easier. [actually the 1st step] g] we went from R-13 to R-50 insulation. It worked so well we will do R-70 next.
What I absolutely hate is at every turn with roofing. You have to be on them a bit like a dog! Throwing good money after bad! No wonder people put getting a new roof off for as long as they absolutely can because they don't know who to trust! One of these days, metal roofs are going to take over, and these people will be out of a job!
I think you should also point out regional differences. For instance where I live in Michigan we really do not get much snow. Ice and water for its original purpose (ice dams) is overkill. We still use it but for me its true importance is in valleys, walls and protrusions. Also I may show my age here a bit but I was just starting roofing when we started using ice and water in roofing so have had the ability to see the pros and cons of the different brands over the long haul. Grace has had just as many issues as winterguard bro. And usually any failures are due to installation errors, like putting on under drip edge instead of on top. Also if your customers are getting ice dams their insulation is the issue that needs addressing.
Ice and water sheld around the hole perimeter and valleys I know here in ga we have pine trees and the pine straw building up on a low pitch roof just holding water you talking about rusty nails
Ive been researching this for months and can't get a solid answer. 2x6 fiberglass, conditioned attic, in NV zone5, (-10f with snow to 115f), high wind application. I want to install a metal roof with an air gap. my only question is, is it safe to install peel and stick (zero perm) onto entire roof deck? Im concerned that interior moisture could start adding up in the fiberglass. I like peel and stick for the benefit of sealing around penetrations.
I really appreciate the details provided in this video. I wish there was a link to the next video mentioned that was to cover Underlayment's. Thank you for sharing your expertise with us.
In reality..... if you had Grace ice and water shield and they tore off your roof because of an insurance claim they're never going to get the grace off the plywood so it's going to happen is they're going to ice and water Shield right over the existing Grace which actually works pretty sweet and even if you have cheap stuff it's going to be better than one layer alone yes the original layer has holes through it but it also has another layer over those holes
🤣 Hahaha, I just did my whole roof with three full layers of $100 square, self sealing ice and water shield, under the shingles... roof is completely profalacticlated now 🤣
Most insurance companies only pay for like and kind. The rest falls on the client to decide whether or not they want to come out of pocket. My experience leads to believe most won't. It doesn't boil down to the contractor trying to save money...it boils down to whether or not the customer wants the upgrade.
I've been told the Resisto product for a ice and water barrier is used a lot in the Midwest. Price point it is around 50 - 55 bucks a roll. Not much for reviews on this Canadian product. What are your thoughts on this product if you have used it? This is what the Contractor said they use, although it took him a couple days to get back to me since he didn't know what brands they use.
Amber Kirkham resisto is on par with the GAF ice and water sold at Home Depot or IKO stormshield. They have a granular version and then one similar to grace but thinner.
The ice water shield isn’t a difference to have you need a good installer your wasting more money to install and down the road when your shingles are worn out you have to pay extra if you damage in any area you have to remove the old plywood if it has damaged where the ice shield is installed so do install it in pitched roofs water runs off the pitch roof this is only nessary on flat roofs this guy is really getting into the customers pockets 🤷♂️
All of my customers get a system warranty registered with the manufacturer, which means we upload pictures and the distributor invoice. Cant imagine why a contractor would ever cheap out and use crappy products. We love our customers but we don't want to have to go back over cutting corners. Do it right or not at all.
What needs to be talked about is the future of roofing and ice&water. A lot of the ice&water brands out there melt to the shingles and become impossible to separate. We are now starting to tearoff these roofs and are finding it to take twice the amount of time to remove shingles and you cannot get all the shingle off. This needs to be addressed. I also am a bigger fan of less ice&water and use a higher grade of synthetic felt. Also make sure venting and insulation are appropriate.
This is one of those cases, We make it amazing! Come time to take it off! Oh we didnt think that far. RIP off the best protected ply wood, and replace it, problem solved.
Manufactures wants to sell there products even if you don't need it . They are not responsable for leaking roofs, they responsable for materials defects. I used Iwc only slopes 2 .5/12 on valleys . There is 40 years roofs here with out paper here in california, woodshingles and some floating tiles over 1x4 space sheeting in the south and 100 years metal roofs.
What kind of shitty contractors do this . This makes me feel way better about how I run my business . Roofing insights you will be interviewing me soon buddy . I know it and I’m calling it now
Dmitry, you said you would not install the garbage (entry level) ice and water and than you showed your "roof in a bag" and you pulled out O.C. entry level Ice and water and better stuff as well and said you can give the home owner a choice of what to use. Maybe you use the high grade ice and water for up selling. You than mentioned at the end of the video you would not use the entry level ice and water. Which is it? Am I mistaken? All shingle manufacturers supply a entry level ice and water and better stuff as well. Maybe the blame should go to the state regulatory building committee who allow it to be used or the manufacturers that are putting it out there. We understand different locations in the country do not have to worry to much about ice and water. I'm sure you install your roofs completely different in Florida than you do up north. We install different types according to the job and the issues that may or could arise. We would tell all potential clients to use a licensed, registered company that has something to loose if they do a poor job. Thanks again for the insight.
we install only two types and we show home owner the difference between ours and cheap for both ice and water and synthetic underlayments. My point is: be transparent with home owner, find something that works really well, in my experience "entry" or economy grade can outperform "brand name" ice and water, as log as thats the case its ok, whats not ok in my book is when contractor has no idea how his ice and water performs, cant explain or demonstrate it, and only uses it to save few dollars even when he is charging premium on entire roof.
OC Weatherlock is NOT entry level not builders grade I&W. Grace is definitely premium, but OC is one step down from that. Rhino and other cheapest options are absolutely entry/builders grade.
I have a screen shot of you doing a Mr Burns moment from Simpsons Will share it on Facebook. Excellent!!! Nvm, can't do it. I tired, unless I keep posting it to each of the shared posts.
I will be showing this to all my new clients from now on. You explained it very well. I always tell my clients that my GAF storm guard is my secondary insurance that helps me sleep at night lol
We are a 100% owens corning company but I gotta say that the ice and water by this brand is cheap in quality. We use only GAF storm guard because it’s stickiness and durability is superior to OC’s. It doesn’t tear as easy as OC. And I still can use other OC products to conform with the warranty requirements of OC. Although you gotta tell people how OC charges extra for OC warranties. So this is an money making item for them. And the coverages of those warranties are questionable. Even the one that covers workmanship it’s very shady. I can Offer the same or better workmanship warranties than Owens corning can just because I know how good we build our roofs. So I don’t need to pay OC extra money for this. Why ?
What does OC generally charge for preferred/platinum warranty coverage and why is it shady? Should a customer get the OC warranty vs hoping a contractor doesn’t go out of business? If the contractor goes out of business doesn’t the warranty vanish as well? Thank you!
It is very shady because it contains lots of exclusions and if and buts. Besides that the fine print says that they will send someone to inspect your roof when it’s done in order to extend the workmanship warranty and in this inspection they will check that it fully complies with quality and any adjustments needed will have to be fixed before extending the warranty. Ok so if if I have to do a high quality roof that’s going to last why do I have to pay then extra if I know that my roof won’t fail. And if going out of business is the issue then a homeowner should go only with reputable companies. Yes any companies can go out of business. But the fact of the matter is if you are not sure about what quality roofing you build then that’s why you need owens corning to respond if there are issues. Because the roofer isn’t confident about his quality. If you are confident you can put it in writing. Lot of roofers don’t provide quality. We haven’t had one single roof leak after a repair or installation ever. Besides that, Owens Corning charges extra for those warranties and the roofers are using that to up sell customers. Meaning roofers are making money out of that too. That inflates the price for a roof unnecessarily when you can provide the coverage yourself if you build high quality roofing systems.
Luis B Thanks for your response. It’s interesting because all the OC preferred/platinum contractors I received estimates from either don’t mention the OC warranty at all or state it incorrectly. Those contractors have offered various warranty lengths backed by their companies which in theory means they have confidence in the workmanship and quality they will provide. The question still comes back to weather the contractor or OC will be more responsive if a leak were to occur during the warranty period? The contractors warranty is only backed up by them staying in business and with a OC backed warranty you may have to jump through hoops.
Storybook Videography if you choose a reputable contractor that has excellent online reviews he or she will a thousand times make the customer happy rather than ignoring a warranty claim because their online reputation can get hurt and that’s a big deal. That’s why homeowners need to choose only contractors with excellent online reputation. If we as contractors know that a customer will hurt us online on BBB, google, Facebook etc then we prefer to make you happy instead because our good reputation is the lifeline of our business. OC won’t make it hard to honor your warranty issue if it comes up but in my opinion they are just trying to make millions out of this. And ultimately customers are the ones paying for this extended warranties. Not contractors. Matter of fact contractors make extra money on this
Joseph Hamby true story. I couldn’t find any ice and water shield at the Home Depot in Guatemala. 😅🤣 I believe this video is just for the people that it affects.
When it is time for tear-off, how do you remove the old ice-guard? I think there should be a product that does not stick to the roof, but instead seals to the nails. A reversed ice-guard basically.
You only need to remove a strip over the drip edge and make sure the replacement gets a good new seal. I've never heard a good reason for removing every bit of old products.
Grace or UDL smooth surface products are the best to use. The shingles don’t stick and you can go over top. Shingles stick to the granular type ice and water and make stripping a lot harder if you get get every bit of shingle off. You could put synthetic or felt over top the ice and water for future re Roofs. Good luck trying the get ice and water of plywood. You’d need to re sheet the roof and good luck getting homeowners to pay for this. It’s hard to educate. In a lot of circumstances more ice and water isn’t the best solution.
We use OC Flex. No granulated and no matting inside. Won’t tear around nails. We do a lot of 8/12 roofs, granulated is hard to walk on, it’s also harder to seal non factory seams.
@@bigazmark Yes Polyglass Peal and Stick. Its an SBS. Which is great. I comes in many colors to match shingles. Base sheet is also thick. Follow instructions and use SBS cement for your your vertical laps. You can find me at d and m roofing and sheet metal. If you need more help message me on Facebook.
Until it has to be reshingled and it take twice or three times long to strip. Unless you use grace something smooth surfaced. I always check the roof for old cheap ice and water because it ends of being a long dirty job.
Do you have any advice for removing old Ice and water shield when ripping a roof? So far the best thing we've come up with in scraping it as clean as possible and rolling and new layer right over the old layer. However doing this doesn't sit well with me. I even contacted the manufacturer and their advice was to completely remove and replace any decking that has the old Ice and Water on it. I cant see most contractors actually taking the time to do that. I know I'm not the only one encountering this problem so Id like to hear your thoughts on the rite way to handle it.
This is a very important topic that ends of costing the subsequent roof job greatly. I describe this issue to my customer as "fused old shingles to the ice barrier." Shingles seem to fuse to cheap ice barriers including GAF Weatherwatch. I only use Certainteed Winterguard (sand finish) and for low pitch application Grace. I find less "fusing: issues. This is important now more than ever due to the high cost of replacement plywood
we use the Nei Owens corning ice and water & psu 30 under metal. I have all my guys synthetic over the ice and water shield. The reason why is that the shingle tops melt into the mineral surface ice and water and is almost impossible tear off. I'm always thinking of the next guy that has to redo the roof. Let me Know what you think about this and help spread the word to other roofers. otherwise the future roofing generations will be replacing the sheeting @ the eaves.
We always do the same,think about the next guy. Unfortunately most people dont have that attitude,they figure they wont be the one coming back in 20 or 30 years
Its against code in Washington kinda defeats the whole purpose of even using it i appreciate the concern tearing that crap up sucks bad stops you dead in your yracjs
In Southern California I’ve always used peel & stick, 3’ wide, in valleys & almost never anywhere else at a cost of $90-$100 per 2 sq roll..Since 1985 have had no leaks in valleys..90% of my roofs get Lifetime workmanship warranties..
This really only holds true in cold climates. In the south you only do the valleys, no ice daming etc. So more like 1-3 rolls max on a roof. Gable has none of course
