I always was a watcher of shows like this. I've never been smart enough to get into college, but I've always wondered and sought truth and I no longer see that in the tv so I come here. Keep it coming.
Anyone to make this statement IS smart enough for college. You should take a course in philosophy, biology, chemistry, and/or something like these to understand how the universe works. You would get so much out of them...and the world would be so much better for you knowing. I implore you to go.
I do not know you except for the comment to which I am responding. Nonetheless, I suspect you may be underestimating your abilities in general, as well as with regard to your ability to achieve a college acceptance, and ultimately a degree.
When I first heard NY Times reporter, I must admit I was skeptical. But by the time the interview was concluded I couldn’t stop smiling. Ross gave me hope! And Peter delivers impeccably as usual! 👍👍
A lot of the bricks and explosives could have been prevented by road blocks in and out of the cities. // No Back packs allowed. No masks! // Worst is and has been the curriculum's of what is taught in School our citizens that attended public school have no understanding of Civics, or US history. They know how to use a cell phone as a toy. Their willing being led into Globalization by the Pied Piper news Media! ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-pTgVNEhotR4.html
What happened in 1971 ? The sound money were demoted and the era of unfettered fiat printing started. Misallocation of capital because of its wrong price is the root of all problems Ross describes in his book.
As a kid, I would go with my old man, an M.D, on his rounds in the early morning. The Hospital was a small regional center, typical of the era. The chief overhead, the largest part of the budget was..... Clean Linen. Circa 1955. It seems the advances in Medicine might have drawn a passing glance.
Solid interview as always. This topic deserves it's own symposium with few more guests- it would be great to hear more ideas about nature and reasons behind western stagnation, defeatism and apathy, despite still (historically) very favorable cicumstances.
My opinion is that we've moved away from God or higher power. In that void, the younger people have fallen for the ideology of Communism. If they hadn't been proselytized in our educational system, they would know the grave evils and 100s millions of lives that result from Communism. I would not be opposed to removal of Communist recruiters who masquerade as teachers out of all levels of education. Enough is enough
I would not know about this author or his book had it not been for the internet. It is a miraculous intellectual advance that we are making.I can communicate with friends and relatives instantaneously and around the world for free rather than on rice paper airmail that takes weeks. I am legally blind but enable to have a rich life in this day and age.
Indeed, the 90s were promising so much more for the new millenium. This interview was very delightful. Thanks to Mr Douthat for putting into words and into a book what so many of us feel is happening, or not happening. Ordering the book!
I could not agree more. Time get it moving again. COVID should be based on death only and any that dies in a nursing home should not be counted. Anyone that has had a family member in one would understand.
I wonder what Douthat thinks of his paper apologizing for publishing and op-ed from Senator Tom Cotton...and yet the same paper has published op-ed’s from Vladimir Putin, Nicholas Maduro, and the head of the Taliban?
Though I really appreciate Mr. Douthat's thoughts and prose for National Review, I very much appreciate Mr. Robinson's challenging of Mr. Douthat's economic, technological definition of "decadence" on historical grounds, actually memorable history for a fellow baby-booner like myself, actually three years older than Mr. Robinson. And I should mention that I'm a fan of Mr. Robinson's clarifying interviews for a simple man like myself. Thank you.
It's disappointing that Douthat gets American growth so wrong since central to his thesis. The post war per capita growth (standard of living proxy) of the 1950s and 1960s was 2.4% and 3.1%, respectively. Douthat says that was comparable to growth in the 1800s and 1900 to 1929 before the depression, but not close. Per capita growth was 1.2% from 1820 to 1850 in the U.S. In the 1850s and 1860s, per capita growth was stronger at 1.8% and 2.0% from 1870 to 1900 but then down to 0.9% from 1900 to 1920. Combining the strong 20s with the bust 30s gives an average per capita growth those two decades at 1.6% and the average of 2.8% from 1950 to 1970 was an anomaly compared to the past. Per capita growth was 2.3% in the 1970s, 2.1% in the 1980s and 1.8% in the 1990s. (During the Clinton years, 1993 to 2000, per capita growth was 2.5%.)
As a topical comment, I would say the patterns Douthat observes can be explained by one thing: the internet. Not the same moral arguments, but the notion that connectedness has now reached a degree where near-global consensus can be managed by propaganda. How often do we see the exact same language and ways of describing something used everywhere immediately? Whether its some dark cabal scheming this, or merely the result of natural connectedness, it creates a very big problem - there is no longer a genotypic variation driving what survives. In the past, when countries responded to an issue differently, historians could study the variety in conceptualizations, severity, and solutions across countries/states, and form a better understanding of the problem. Now, in an age where everyone can reach everyone immediately, any problem becomes "lights go out at a dinner party" moments. The consensus around a conceptualization happens far too quickly for any variety of conceptualizations to even be implemented. The solution to the problem, unfortunately, would be unacceptable to nearly all stakeholders - remove anonymity.
This was recorded last Thursday - the same day that protests and riots broke out across America in response to police brutality against George Floyd in Minneapolis. Imagine if this interview had been recorded just one day later. I venture to say that it would have been a radically different interview.
Actually, we will hopefully find out at some point if there was police brutality against George Floyd in Minneapolis. Not that you aren't entitled to pre-judge (the basis of the word 'prejudice') the situation. A day after shouldn't be enough to change anyone's mind about anything. We either seek the truth in everything or we don't.
It isn’t about stimulation anymore, the interest rates are the economies life support system. Or maybe worse, it’s the two dudes propping up the dead economy like Weekend at Bernies.
I am struck by the discussion of decadence and lack of innovation, (around 30m), there is no mention of Tesla and SpaceX, and the recent Nasa commercial manned flight to the space station, and the new space race, proposed Space Port, and the disruption of big oil by electric cars "accelerating".
It is not enough. Even if we all move to electric cars and green sources of energy, and if private space companies become the norm , and state space agencies like nasa become relics - all of that does not amount to much. The west still remains an ageing society, artificially rejuvenated by immigrants, and saddled by debts. Universities still remain stifled by the woke thought police, which also patrols the worlds of cinema and literature. I hate to sound like a killjoy but that is the way it is. Mr Douthat is right : one of the signs of decadence is when big projects are announced but nothing ever happens. In this time, it is better to seek personal salvation.
Honest question, how has any of the things you mentioned really changed anyones life for the better? I love my Tesla but honestly, my old car got me around just fine, it’s more of a toy than anything else.
It is refreshing to listen to an interview with someone I disagree with so much. He seems genuine I might try and remember to read his book if only to refute many of his ideas and further formulate my own.
Amazing, so much one "observes" from one's attic. At least de Tocqueville travelled to meet Americans in their hometowns. So the decadence he speaks of might be more related to his perspective.
Douthat mentioned "the stagflation of the 70s" but GDP per capita grew at a strong 2.0% a year that decade. He also said that there was slow growth "under President Bush's presidency, the financial crisis..." yet that crisis was only in 2008. From 2001 to 2007, average GDP per capita grew at 2.0% which is also considered strong growth.
As one who loves to read economics (political History,too), I must get into this. (I was born in 1941) Lately I have decided that the role of the Democrat Party Intellectuals is to throw a brick into the works of the American enthusiasm. Sort of like the Hedge fund/Gold bug who always looks to make a down side argument. I think the 60's large cohort of youth took control of the Culture, but the real outlook of their Intellectuals in the Party View was based on, "live now for tomorrow we die"! With Nixon, and the positive idea of an Out reach to China, we also deluded our selves, thinking underneath it all, China would become just like us. We Helped, China to all of our intellectual and smiling enthusiasms. The drag on this became the reality of China's politics, and the 60's desire to remake America as Perfect. Any flaw found was exaggerated and used as a slogan for an election. The ideas to better America, began to more and more go against realities of Human character. The lack of growth, was intentional. The gutting of America for the Future of a CHINA, was intentional. I end here.
A fascinating discussion but a far more compelling theory that explains our decline is THE GENIUS FAMINE by Edward Dutton, which examines the decline in general intelligence since the 1800s.
I disagree with Ross's comments about technology stagnation. Biotech is leaping ahead in ways I do not have time to describe here... but a couple of indicators: Uterine Transplants, Pig-Human hybrids (ooh - yuk), CRISPR in evolving forms, Cybernetics, new Antibiotics, Plastic eating bacteria and the list goes on... in the sciences there are two essential issues - in Physics there is an 'entry barrier' to many of the explorations (to a lesser degree same goes for Chemistry), in Engineering they are fighting a regard action against post-cultural Marxism (dropping standards and focus) e.g. "STEM", Computers in regard to complexity (but AI systems are being written to overcome this) and so on. One of the hugest issues, and as alluded to in Engineering, is that the Humanities, because they are so polluted Ideologically, are have a profound effect on the 'hard sciences', Physics, Chemistry, Biology and every other empirical subject is being being stalled... by "relativism" (e.g. there is no such thing s only two sexes) and this is a really, really serious issue. Incidentally, in my mid-fifties, all I want to do is hang in there until I see man land on Mars and humanity no longer be a "one planet' species.
Plato describes 5 forms of regimes (in descending order from 'idealness': Aristocracy, Timocracy, Oligarchy, Democracy, and Tyranny i hear 'we are in an oligarchy' always in a negative context but according to this dude it's progress. If Plato is right, and an oligarchy does represent progress, how we turn oligarchy into timocracy?
Decadence is ordering a latte from Starbucks on your phone while you shrug off the collapse of your culture and history to the detriment of your grandkids. So many have blinders on. I don’t think this guest has really gotten into the weeds on this. Our failing school systems and unjust economy are setting us up for a sad future. Not impressed with this guest at all.
They need an addendum taped during and after the race riots. His point is that we are pulling ourselves apart, that we are our own worst enemy, seems very valid.
To coin the popular phrase of my generation: "Ok, Boomer." Nihilism disguised as sociological synopsis. This is the French Revolution poetry of America today. The technological breakthroughs that are on the edge of implementation will most likely make the last 30 years look as foreign as the last 80. AI advancements in combination with self sustaining energy advancements are about to lead to a world of self-piloting, VTOL, solar powered transportation. Households probably won't even own their own vehicles in another 10-20 years. Boating is much the same with self sustaining energy production and decreased cost of maintenance. Even the fear of obese, sedentary, virtual existence is stagnant. VR advancements will actually increase physical activity and decrease the amount of time spent playing video games. The way people interact with the virtual world is best achieved in total simulation, for immersion's sake. So unlike (today)using peripheral controls to simulate actions virtually, people will (tomorrow) be directly simulating actions they want virtually replicated - so you will actually have to walk in the real world to walk in a virtual one. It may be an escape from the physical world psychologically (and that is worth considering), but it will not be at the cost of our physical bodies. Finally there is a growing movement in newer generations of men to take control of sexual selection and stop allowing it to be exploited by toxic women for their own financial gain. I just see this entire premise as a nostalgic and dusty longing for the grand ole days of flip phones and dial up internet.
Why do you have a stupidly expensive iphone? I don't get it. I have a galaxy. I make calls. I have a laptop. I roam the internet. What do you do on a device that costs many hundreds of dollars that makes it worth that much money?
PR needs to be cut loose . It’s been a parasite for decades. Problem is, it’s always left up to them. Independence, statehood, commonwealth status, they choose not us.
The soviets were not on the march. They were smart enough to go home. The US is ALWAYS on the freaking march. I hope the people will refuse that someday. Wait a minute....you didn''t know China and India had a thing going on? Where have you been?
Trade with China severly damaged the US economy starting in the early 2000s. The resulting low interest rates desperately trying to stimulate the economy led to the housing bubble and the financial crisis.
Love to see a Cancer Cure Moon Shot.. What's another Trillion at this point? So may Trillions wasted stupidly, to no avail. The end result would be discoveries and technologies far beyond the Cure itself. Unfathomable economic potential.... Would be the best Trillion$$$ ever spent.
Douthat: "Innovation at the edge has benefited smaller groups of people and hasn't had the kind of broad spectrum changes that penicillin and the automobile ushered in." Smart phones have been as cutting edge innovation as you can get and that went from about 2% of the population in 2007 to 85% of the population today - a sea change in how we communicate with each other and get information. Dohthat: "There was one big productivity surge from the internet that lasted from 1996 to 2001, otherwise our productivity growth in the internet age does look European." The fast productivity growth was longer, from 1996 to 2005, a full decade. 2.8% for the four years from 2002 to 2005.
Your discussion of innovation doesn’t distinguish between two types of innovation: incremental and disruptive. Almost all modern innovation falls into the former category, including many new products that are called disruptive but aren’t.
Pleeeze, get your facts right. Just because you like the Apple brand of phone does not mean that the rest of the world does too. Apple is not the only company making phones. iPhone is a brand name only for Apple products. Likewise, the name Itab is only used for Apple tablets Samsung, Motorola, LG, Huawei, Nokia, etc. all make "Smart Phones" and tablets under their own names. I have a Samsung Note 10. It is a smartphone but it is most definitely not an iPhone. The vast majority of people worldwide use smartphones. Only those who can afford the vastly inflated price of an iPhone use them but they are in fact not any better than the Android system used by all the other smartphone manufacturers.
We seem to be living in a frayed version of the past, like Royal Tannenbaums, like the old Soviet Union, or post colonial countries, where nothing is really new, but just bandaged up old infrastructure from a previous age. America is living its own version of this. Nothing really gets better, but rather everything is just a slightly worse version of the slightly worse version as people spin off into nihilism. It is true, Israel feels vital, it lives in history. We pretend diversity and tolerance is purpose. Just like the communists did. They will lock us in soon.
Douthat makes some great points. I think, if his theory is true, it may not be a bad thing after all. Maybe these limitations to what we can do will force us to look inside of ourselves and improve our relationships with people or to appreciate what we have or to improve the human condition instead of trying to colonize Mars.
The premise fails. The characterization of decadence is poorly framed. The examination of the underlying culture is lacking. The excessive focus on economic growth measures is misguided. By the time we reach fertility the point is lost.
Private sector space program is definitely a better idea BUT that doesn't change that it needs to capture our national passion and imagination. Your guest is right. But OUR family follows spaceX and Elon Musk and all that venture forward . Ask him if he's a pessimist much
You only need to take one example from the space race to see the growth of what Asimov would have termed the Trantor effect to see the decline. Apollo used the Saturn V rocket to reach the moon, but we can no longer build the engines for such a machine - we no longer have the welding skills. That's the result of our times.
How shall we live, how shall I live -- my fear is that this question will not be acceptable. The violent activists are not asking this question. They are philosophically incapable of doing so.
integration of existing technologies: the iphone innovation: the microprocessor, the internal combustion engine old people just don't get it. they think some flashy phone is the pinnacle of human invention, but its the processor running the phone that was truly innovative.
They just need to legalize it and tax the $hit out it like they do spirits, tobacco, and gas. If people want to poison themselves let them do so but not at the expense of others. Pay down the national debt.
America wasn't emotionally mature enough for the internet. Social media gave incentive for old institutions to crumble imo. Nitpick: Marijuana is not as effective for dulling pain as alcohol. Most of the drug problems I see locally are prescription opiod dependance. Perverse incentives abound in medicine big time, but it isn't news. Another nitpick: Pornography, although addiction has its own issues, hasn't, imo, affected romantic relationships as much as simply everyone living on social media daily. And then yes, I guess as a symptom it's easy to open a porn tab and get rid of tension, just as its simply more convenient to use Door Dash or Uber Eats. We're lulled utterly by technocrats. If one person opts out, they get alienated because everyone's on some platform. Yikes.
I a nearing 82 yrs. America was a uch ore civilized, measured, uncrowded country when I was young. Overpopulation is killing the quality of life for every soul on the planet. BUT. no one wants to address the elephants in the living room.
I don't think the argument was very strong, and I think Peter did a good job of calling him out on those weaknesses. The internet has been an incredible progression in society, whereby people have access to communication and information like never before. And guess who was in the forefront of all of it? America. You can't just discount everything it has done for society. Admittedly, my bias is towards Strauss and Howe's 'The Fourth Turning' theory, which I highly recommend. In essence, the sort of shortcomings that Douthat cites are only bumps in the road for our great country - the effective 'paradigm shift' towards decadent stagnation that Douthat has claimed doesn't resonate. Moreover, some of the problems that Douthat tries to cite are only typical of a fourth turning, which comes to an end when a crisis period brings the country together again, and sends us towards new horizons. Finally, I would also say that Peter Robinson, who is an excellent interviewer, was a bit disingenuous when he referred to the Trump administration's accomplishments. Their positive impact remains rather dubious, and they were only accomplished in the most partisan way possible - just like the Obama administration's accomplishments (with the Coronavirus aid packages being a notable exception, of course).
the biggest problem we have in this country is that nobody bothers to research any of what's happened to us or what is now happening to us. My mom remembers the 1960s when the Black Panthers, Bill Ayers, Saul Alinsky, and many other polarizing figures of her time were teaching all of her generation how to be plundering numbskulls ,which as I see it today living in my era, has only gotten worse because the lack of research has led to the anarchy we're all dealing with now as a result of ignorance and the unwillingness to research so we don't repeat the 1960s, which sadly we are except it isn't guerillas, it's little soyboy girl and boy brats who can't work, but can ruin the cities and their own communties because they were taught by the Bill Ayers and Saul Alinskies who radicalized their parents.
Speak for himself . America's still exceptional BECAUSE of our strength in adversity. Some of us are hopeful because of Trump's presidency. He LOVES this nation and reminds us every day if the great fortune of being a citizen in this amazing nation. It's not just $$$ it's personal opportunity and freedom. I always marvel when Americans just met at how sluggish things are and they don't live in India or South America. Everything is relative isn't it. We're like professional complainers. Like Eeyore. It'll never work. This is not what built this nation. He was courage and resolve and initiative and hard work
Hello Ross I am right now halfway through your book that I took out of the library three months ago. I like the first chapter very much I need to go and see those two movies Children of Men and the handmaid's tale to understand a lot more about what's going on again I'm halfway through the book I had the privilege of meeting you couple years ago at the Benedict option meeting in New York with Rod Dreher gave a excellent talk and the bishop of the Bruderhof gave a pretty good talk you were on the panel but you seem to have been lost, or out that day.
At least one bad assumption. If GDP growth were really 5% not 2.5% we would have more wealth upon which to all back on during a pandemic or similar problem. REALLY? We are hugely wealthy yet the average American spends that wealth faster than they earn it or receive it from the GOVT. The evidence actually indicates we might be worse off with a higher GDP growth rate. Decadence does not engender thrift, saving, or preparedness. Borrowed wealth engenders dependence, largesse, and helplessness in the absence of GOVT $s.
Saturday they two astronauts did launch, reached the ISS and all without incident -- well, one of the astronauts bumped his head in the space station with a bit of blood and a bump.
`Regarding birth rate and immigration, Hungary proved recently that financial incentives given and the birth rate will increase... The same is happening in Poland and other predominantly right-leaning countries that treat the demographic issue with the seriousness that its necessary.
Indeed, kids are expensive, and the university experience is a decadent form of what it once was. So cut tuition rates in half and fire half of the administrators.
There are also many countries that have these incentives without similar results. I think it is more likely about the culture and the conversations that people have. I live in Canada and we have great financial incentives but we are so ashamed of having a national identity that it doesn’t work. I think the incentives can help but you need at least a little sense of pride in a people to make any use of it.
The tax breaks we get in Canada seem to more than cover the costs, at least while they are young. Birth rates don’t seem to be much different though so I am skeptical.
