I own an MG ZR 160 (tuned to 190) with the 1.8 VVC engine.. I knew they were suffered from head gasket failure so a precaution for mine, I had the 5 layer steel gasket fitted with an uprated oil rail and bolts. The combo of the three created a solid engine.. The new MG 6 now comes factory built with the MLS gasket..
Had a 25 with a 1.4 K series in it. The Catalytic converter collapsed internally so my mechanic friend took it off and removed all the internals and put it back in. It transformed the car gave it a lovely rasp under acceleration and made it pretty quick it did put the EML on though but never bothered me. Car sadly went for scrap due to rust.
to the people who blow their head gasket , MAKE sure the ENGINE is WARM before putting the pedal to metal , every car will have head gasket issues if try to go fast with cold engine . my rover 214si is still going (122k km sportsy drive style)
To all the K Series haters and doubters! Have you ever owned a K series? No i bet most havnt. I got a MGZR 160VVC with K series engine in. The cars covered 73k on original gasket and runs like a dream. Im sick and tired of saying over and over again that the gasket doesnt just blow! the fools whom think it does are crazy. My car is the most reliable car ive ever owned and im owned over 30. If you pay alot for something you are going to look after it arent you? well then theres the answer.
Interestingly, most high mileage ones one their original gaskets do tend to last quite well. What you normally find though is that most of the 1.6 and 1.8s driven around town tend to blow their gaskets after about 80k.
@topski100 I was bought up on two stroke bikes and always warmed them up prior to using the engine moderate to hard. As a result I warm cars up too. Never had any problems with any K series., I've had several BMW 3 series lumps blow HG's as well. I work at MIRA and you soon learn whats fact and whats myth.
The problems were mostly from the cooling system working in the opposite way from other systems in a bid to control emissions from cold starts and if this had been done the conventional way, we certainly wouldn't be seeing cases of distortion that would leadf to the HGF problem. Interestingly, high milegae cars have been using their original gaskets whereas cars used mostly for town have seen these problems manifest themselves at around 80-90k (on the original gasket).
@iamthefatstig indeed. I was the same with two stroke engines as a child, and later with small road bikes. But I've experienced and engine warping under thermal expansion when the bolts have warped the cylinder head. Even though the official repaor head gasket was fitted, the synthetic seals on the oil journals rubbed away, which I assume must have been due to the head moving relative to the block under expansion.
.. in a sense giving credeance to this idea. Use of an MLS type gasket and the modified oil rail (bottom section) can relieve the problems as can using the PRT thermostat which can help to regulate the water inlet into the head better on warm up. But you say that most HG's go straight after 20k.. Well if that's the case then there are a lot of mech which aren't following the book closely. This engine has very, very strict tolerances and can't be repaired just like any old ford/opel/toyota engine
@authmaax Hum... some of that is not really part of a HG replacement. The hoses and tubes need to be replaced sometimes in all cars. At least I do so in all my cars (MGR and not). Although, if that continues to happen, something was not done correctly. My new 214 recently went to the shop for the same service. Turns out, the gasket was ok, it was the block that looked like a swiss cheese... Apparently the previous owner used water instead of coolant! :S
@mushroomscouser (continues) And if it does, it's a 600€ repair that - when performed correctly, and proper maintenance is done - will only be needed once in the 300 000+ kilometer lifespan of the engine! For the great engine that it is, with 95bhp when it was designed circa 1989 (103bhp in 1992, which was at the time immense for a 1400cc engine at the time), great response, awesome power-to-weight ratio due to the use of aluminium and an incredible long lifespan, i can live with that! TBC
The problems with the head gasket were probably exaggerated by the fact that the coolant system held only a small amount of coolant, plus a specific bleeding method had to be followed to avoid air pockets in the system. Knowing mechanics, my guess is that only a few followed that procedure correctly.
@authmaax Not if it is repaired and maintained properly! ;) It will not be 400€ (I've had mechanics offering to do it at that price or even a bit lower, but at the expense of quality...), more like 600. The gasket should be replaced with a MLS, as the oil-rail, the bolts should be replaced, the head should be verified for warpage and a few other bits and ends. Do this, and verify the cooling system regularly, as you should with any vehicle, and the engine will run smoothly for a very long time
On the original K series (up to '95) that this programme refers to, that head gasket was sufficient. The block was redesigned in 1995 to accommodate the 1.6 and 1.8l bore and a lot of torsional stiffness was removed. This pushed the gasket beyond its design limits and it failed.
@mushroomscouser (continues) Furthermore, the problem itself is not major, for Christ sake, specially with the "new" MLS gasket kit (with the redesigned oilrail, and the "thicker" gasket (which were not, contrary to general belief, developed by BMW, but by Powertrain, a division of the MGRG!) If used correctly, the engine will NOT overheat, the head and block will NOT expand and different rates and the HG will NOT fail! TBC
@mushroomscouser (continues) And as far as the rest of the cars go, they are very good overall! Classic stylish design, great equipment options at the time, good value for money, great performance, comfort, the lot! My previous Rover ran for over 100 000km without a single major problem - HGF or otherwise - until i traded it for my current one, a '94 214 Cabrio, is having is original HG replaced RIGHT NOW AT 181 000KM! Do I have a problem with that? TBC
If it wasn't for Rover half the Tech manufacturers use in the Car industry would still be operating as they were 40 years ago... Who invented the first Aluminum Chassis? Audi with the R8? nope it was a Rover...
Rover was the crown jewels of motor manufacturing world. There was big money to be made by all and sundry. This has been going on since the very beginning, from the industrial revolution and still continues today. Take IAD(and the design engineer/owner - who passed in 1993) and what was suppose to be the new MG. A new model introduction(a small to medium size vehicle) to takes 3 to 4 years. 4x4's can take up to 10. That's where all the costs are with no return. Both AIG/Rover and the British people were taken to the cleaners. The whole production development, including machinery, tooling etc, was taken to South Africa as the Mazda MX5, with world's most crappiest engine: which was MAZDA rotary engineer. The list of individual and business(Clarkson, Hammond and Thatcher - The BBC, BMW, the Mail, the Express).
Fundamentally, the design is good but the execution although the execution was poor - most likely down to under investment in R&D. I would like to see how the SAIC (unit fares (for all their resources) with HGF and whether this has actually been engineered out. If this is the case then the through-bolt design can be fully justified.
@shaitan it was 1000€ the whole pack head gasket head resurfacing all head gaskets pump puller belts metallic tube of the coolant system and a hose of the coolant system and reprogramming i supose now it needs to have the cap fo the expansion system only snug tight to be able to let the coolant system pressure escape, or else the water is consumed and ends up exiting through the exaust pipe.
The cooling system relies on pressure to work you've just spent all that money on a waste if you don't tighten the coolant cap down as the system works at 105°c water boils if not under pressure
@mushroomscouser (continues) And the main reason MG-Rover Group broke down and was separated, was the missievings of the head managers at Longbridge, who went on trial last year or so. Now I wouldn't go as far as to say that the HGF problem didn't play a part in it - as did the BMW ownership, the scars BL left in all brands it managed and many other factors - but it certainly wasn't the main issue... TBC
Watching the chap drop the head onto the block (around 3:10) it looks like he stamped the block with the bolts! Rather concerning (maybe that's why there are so many reports of gasket failure!!)..
@mushroomscouser No it is not. Bankruptcy means the company was dissolved and the brand no longer exists, insolvency, at least in this case, means the brand was bought by another company not being in use right now. And that is a problem of your dealer, or of the dealer network of your country (unless you live in the UK :s ). And even if you do, that might be wrong from the company, but it doesn't make the actual cars better or worse!
@mushroomscouser (continues) None whatsoever, because the car has been and will continue to be very reliable! On another note,I know a couple of former MG-Rover dealers and, contrary to you sir, have had Rovers in the past, and still do now! Actually, I know a lot of people who own and have owned Rovers and MGs and are terribly happy with them!!! So, I say again, great brands MG and Rover!
The gasket problem was not a major issue on earlier engines up to 1.4 litres. Problems came when they lopped the top deck off to fit the damp liners. the 1.6 and 1.8 were notorious for this. You cannot slag off this technique as it has been don for former F1 and motorbikes for a while before then. Rover was the first production car manufacturer to use this system. Given the funding that SAIC have given to the engine designers, HGF is no longer a problem.
Pues lo siento mucho pero mi Rover 416si a los 100.000km un poro entre la camisa y el conducto de refrigeración que pasaba por al lado y zas....todo lleno de refrigerante, cambiar el motor entero y un pastón enorme. Un buen motor hasta que se jode. Lastima porque de por sí, va muy muy fino.
@blaster2012 and its still shit...if i were to redesign this engine i would make the head bolts 2 mm wider use metal dowels and the new multi layered head gasket made of a softer metarial ie copper the thermostat would have a small bypass hole to stop thermal shock and the valve in the head to the degass pipe done away with
@mushroomscouser This will be a much shorter response: Yes, because MG isn't making money with the last year of the K-Series powered TF...! ;) Not much, I'll give you that, but still...
Oh yeah by the way the head bolts were deliberately designed to fail. How do know, because I took both BMW(2002) and later Phoenix Group(2005/6ish). Reasonable right to expect as a consumer reasonable vehicle usage, over time, before critical failure, etc, etc. That's how I got to court/with a certain of patient ignorance. Then in both case, I produced an original set of head bolts(R75 2000), head failure at £80'000 and £95'000 and the failed head head-bolts. pulled from the vehicles. They looked like the original held-bolts skinny cousin. That reminds me BMW and German guy speaking. If you compare the K-series engine(as per rovamota video) and as to how it was later produce(plastic air in-take, the head-gasket, etc,etc). And we all know it was actually Lotus engine plant as owned by the Malaysians who were producing inferior guffs. I am angry English Mechanical Engineer
Its sad that this engine underwent more testing than nearly any other engine yet in the hands of fools its reputation was shredded. My 1.8K has done 230k without ANY probs at all. Just the oil changed every 12k and allowed to warm up before putting the pedal to the metal as they say. This technology is too complicated for a road engine driven by fools.
Actually on reflection you have a point I was arrogant. Sorry. I withdraw what I said. But I have tuned these engines and never had issues with the 1.4 L engine. But it is a shame this engine developed such a bad reputation. You say "and you would know" well yes I would why shouldnt I? Its only simple physics.
I had an MGZR 160 car looked lovely but all the mechanics shunned it. After id done alot of research i found out why. Head gasket and cooling. I serviced it every year, changed coolant etc and always checked the coolant levels. Had issues with heat coming from heaters though it was cold. I stuck up for the car and thought mine is fine, there just paranoid but then in 2015 when werer coming back from York and blue smoke started plumitting out of the back, car was spluttering badly. Found out it had blown a piston due to cooling issues again. It was sold for scrap, i owned it for 2 years, completely gutted. Never again. Car was bought in 2013 with 50k miles and fsh for 1950. It was scrapped with 77k.
hahaha Talking about K-series as if it is good apart from the head gasket I cannot tune my turbo one over 200bhp for fear it will cracking it's liners. Bloody rover should kept the older, better t16
Err... no. It can't... well maybe until you deside to gun it anyway... Shame because my zt is otherwise a decent car. In ideal world it would rwd and have a 300bhp t series instead of this miserable excuse for a lump k,rap series. Of course I'm not saying if I did'nt want to i couldn't mod it the bottom end to handle that power. But it would be much easier to buy a Nissan or something reliable and spend much less to get that kind of power. Shame really, I hear the v6 is too thirsty and also not much good either under forced induction. Ford V8 zt is bad ass but not really my thing.
I had a 1.8 zr which I checked religiously reference the fluid levels and oils levels etc. Basically, I looked after it. Even then, the head gasket blew. Poorly made car unfortunately.
@mushroomscouser Really?! You say that Rover "went bust" and you want me to believe that you worked at a dealer for 17 years?! Rover didn't go "bust", the brand was declared insolvent - which is completelly different - and bought by Tata. If Rover really went down due to the K-Series engine, why didn't MG?! With the MG TF still using K-Series 'till this day - it's last year in production -, and the new models coming out this year, I'd say they didn't exactly "went bust"... TBC
Usual Rover issues. Briiliant design, crap execution, saving a few quid on parts (ie plastic head gaskets!), what were they thinking. My 600 & 75 were great cars,
A mate of mine got a rover 200 1.4 16 v the other day ,what a load of shit !!! it uses more water than petrol !! ????? S reg 73000 mls good condition !! waste of £300
