Great idea for a video but it would have made a lot more sense to have used a men's 1x than a women's 2x - mainly for weight differences between boats/athletes
right? seems like rowers know nothing about power to weight ratios? two less powerful women and bigger boat against single male in lighter craft... hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Actually it's the same - womens double sculls record is 6:37.3 and mens single is 6:30.7. A premium male athlete will go faster than a premium female athlete, and 2 athletes will go faster than one - both pretty much cancel each other out, so both times are within 1% of each other. As for why 2 athletes go faster: 2x weight and 2x power. 2x weight = 2x volume displacement = 1.4 (root of 2)x area displacement, hence double the power but only 1.4 times the drag. This is also why men go faster - as well as having a slightly higher power to weight ratio, they have higher weight limit (70kg compared to 57kg for women). Heavier rowers perform better on water due to disproportional displacement. Men go about 9% faster than women, and doubles go about 8% faster than singles - so you have a pretty fair test.
Assuming that you place two equally good athletes each in their specialty, the kayak will always be faster at the start and in a short race, but in a race of 500 meters or more the rower will always be the winner. Neither is better than the other, they are simply different sports.
@@vrex899 yes, rowing distributes the exertion over many more muscle groups than kayaking, so a certain power output can be sustained for much longer. the longer the distance is, the greater a rower's advantage will be over a kayaker. there's a reason many more people have rowed across seas and oceans than have kayaked across them :)
@@joevdb9232 both are whole body activities The only difference is rowing has two fixed points and kayak has one Making rowing easier, where kayaking racing techniques are an art as the paddler has to make the second fixed point
@@oiuslags I'm guessing you've probably never rowed in you're life by saying rowing is easier than kayaking. If rowing was easier than kayaking, why can you always rent a kayak at almost any body of water while you can't rent a rowing boat almost anywhere?
That is like the most rad boat storage place I have ever seen! I think what is so special about rowing is the teamwork and the effort to get multiple individuals to be in sync. Watching the German world record footage for 8x is just amazing.
That's a result I didn't expect! This prompted me to look at the record times for rowing, kayaking, and canoeing events. The standard length for a rowing event is 2000m. The closest length to that for kayaking and canoeing events is 1000m. In the following list, I doubled the times for the 1000m kayaking and canoeing events just for purposes of comparison. I wouldn't expect the same pace to be maintained for twice the distance. I could not find a record time for a woman's 1000m canoeing event. Men M1x 2000m Single Scull - Mahe Drysdale - 6m 33.35s Men K1 1000m Kayak - Max Hoff - 3m 22.485s x 2 = 6m 44.970s Men C1 1000m Canoe - Sebastian Brendel - 3m 44.578s x 2 = 7m 29.156s Women W1x 2000m Single Scull - Rumyana Neykova - 7m 7.71s Women K1 1000m Kayak - Teneale Hatton - 3m 48.560s x 2 = 7m 37.120s The kayaks are definitely faster than the canoes, and the sculls are definitely faster than the kayaks, but I didn't expect the time margins to be so narrow between the kayaks and the sculls given that the rowers are able to use the strength of their legs. Another interesting thing is that the kayaker in the video jumped to an immediate lead but didn't increase it by much for the remainder of the race. Perhaps the smaller mass of the kayak allows for a significant acceleration advantage.
Greg Vassilakos the kayaks would be slower if they had to race 2k instead of 1k so you can nearly say that it is bullshit to compare 1000m and 2000m times :)
DJmrk right, but the point is kayaks are slower. So if 2x1000 for kayaker is slower than a rower's 2000 then a kayaker's 2000 has to be slower than a rower's.
Kayakers do use their legs. If you pay attention to the way sprint kayakers paddle, the kayakers are driving their legs to shift their body left and right with each stroke, providing a driving force that increases the power of a stroke exponentially and also allowing a kayaker to more effectively use their core and back muscles. In fact, in an optimal kayak stroke the arms don't do much at all, they mostly maintain optimal paddle entry and placement for power application (of course, they also apply a lot of force movement wise, but not as much as most would think). It's mainly the back, core and leg muscles that do the work in a kayak stroke. And you're right - the kayaker in the video gained a lead very quickly. That's primarily down to the stroke rate - professional kayakers can put down up to 120-130 strokes per minute in sprint races. Although a kayak stroke by nature is less powerful than a rower's stroke, kayakers put down a LOT more strokes - in your average pro race, most kayakers average out at around 90-100 strokes per minute, while rowers average out at 50-60 strokes a minute at best. When you can put down nearly double the strokes, you're obviously going to get off the line faster.
Greg didn't say kayakers don't use their legs, he only referred to how much more power a rower gets from their legs. You only have to look at the athletes' physiologies to see that kayakers are upper body dominant and rowers are lower body dominant (when compared with each other). And I'm not sure how you row but I've never seen a boat average 50-60 strokes a minute. The fastest men's 8s in the world will get off the start in the high 40s and settle in the high 30s for the vast majority of the race.
The World Record for the K1 500m is 1:35. The World Best Time for the M1x is 6:30 for 2000m. Robbie Manson did 1:38.3 for the first 500m when he set this record and his average split was about 1:37.5. While rowers don't train specifically for 500m races, a world class 1x sculler needs to be able to do better than 1:35 for 500m. And the rate for a max 500 m piece should be in the 40-46spm range.
As a former rower who has transitioned into kayaking (which I personally prefer), I can say that the rowers should always win pretty much most distances (With the exception of maybe a 100m or 200m sprint where a kayaker's higher rating is favoured). Simple physics provides rowers with far more leverage than a kayaker (A couple of meters more), and rowing also engages a far larger range of muscle groups making it significantly more powerful. This video is really cool, but if athletes of similar fitness levels from each sport were used the rowers would consistently win. (Or you could just look at record times :D).
Worlds fastest kayaker (K1) 1000m: Max Hoff, 3:22 Worlds fastest rower (M1x) 2000m: Robert Manson, 6:31 (thats 3:15 for 1000m) So even though Robert Manson was aiming for 2km he still beat the best kayaker of the world. In a race over 1km he would be even faster than 3:15.
Achim , the thing is, the huge advantage from the leg muscles in rowing makes the comparison useless. I know how it is. Max Hoff's time is unbelievable.
But you have to look that the length of the boat is 8m, and the kayak is 5.20m, and that length brings it higher speed. And the length of the paddlle is also important, because it has a bigger lever in the rowworm and therefore has more power in the curse. its nice to see compare but these are two different sports 😉
Hello, a question to (probably slightly older?) rowers/coaches. I was able to buy a 40+ year-old wooden/varnished fine-shell single-scull (assembled weight 22kg) with original wooden macon blades (2.7kg each) very cheaply to save it from scrap. After tidying, I have been able to do some long-distance outings in it (for example 28km including self-carry over 2 locks in 3h10m). I wondered if anyone has any factual evidence as to how much slower than a brand-new carbon scull with the latest blades it might be if I wanted to do some half-serious competition in it - or should I hire a new boat?
(I know this comment is 5 years old but I don't know if you still need help) Average weight of a single scull is about 14kg and new Concept 2 scull oars are about 1.4 kg each. Meaning you would be pulling 10.6 kg less every stroke, and therefore you could row farther distances and accelerate the boat better while expending less energy. Plus assuming the oars are bucket blades, using hatchet shaped oars will make it significantly easier to move the boat. If you can afford it and are serious about competing you should probably look into buying a new scull and a new set of oars.
Does anyone notice how it’s only 500m? That means the start at the beginning makes a huge difference? The shorter the distance the more the kayaker will win by, they have a much faster start than most rowers but over even a 1k I think the rowers will have a much better chance
I really enjoy small boats. Designing, building, being on the water, it's all great to me. That said, the comments on this video make a lot of you sound like overbearing, over-competitive people. The sort of folks that won't be able to leave a comment like this alone...
What length is a single rowing Schull? The k1 kayaks are 5.2meters. Unless you match the craft length the test cannot be a direct comparison. These are displacement hulls so it matters.
their recovery is way too fast for the obvious weakness of their strokes, I'd say they're giving half effort with little training in good rowing tempo.
There are many reasons why rowers are faster especially the length of the boat is one of the main reasons, kayakers dont have any change to win rower if doin 500m or longer distance
@@aaronhapponen2901 Kayaker had massive advantage over rower. Takes a lot more efforts to row vs to just move left and right your hands left and right with one double paddle than two single paddles. Ressistance for the rowers is bigger and will get tired and exhausted much more quickly. But i think pedal boat can go faster than kayaker. For longer distances. Like 21 km.
Chill out. This is like Gibson vs Fender, Canon vs Nikon, Steak vs Lobster, Ginger vs Mary Ann... Just follow your own path and your own passion and smile at the A-B comparisons many people make to pass the time.
Men vs woman?? Not being sexist but there is a clear strength difference and weight difference. Men's single would have been better, but still a good video concept
Keegan Vannier there's a small difference from women to mens rowing, youd be surprised. That kayaker would still be in close contention to a men's scull though. Girls are not completely dead slow
A diferença maior está na passada. No Remo, por mais que você tem mais força no “stroak” pois usa tronco e perna, o ritmo é mais lento das pás entrando e saindo. No Caiaque você tem muito mais stroaks por minuto. Porém, se você aumentar a corrida pra 2.000 metros, muda tudo… pois um Remador consegue manter por mais tempo força. E o no caiaque a pessoa não consegue ter o mesmo ritmo e força por 2.000 metros. São esportes bem diferentes… é a mesma coisa que comparar snowboard e esqui em um slalom, em uma prova de salto, de velocidade, etx.
rowboats are way more efficient then kayaking, duh. you cant compare different sports by speed or a novice kayaker could beak micheal phelps. whatever sport you do doesnt make you better. its how hard you push
I got the impression that the maker of the video is a rower, because the single kayaker was up against a 2 person rower. And at the end, he ranked rower as 2nd, not last, which is a little... It's cool, but I'm a racing kayaker myself, so this immediately seemed a little off!
Oh brother! Another one. We get the message, you don't think highly of rowers though they're probably the fittest athletes on earth. Keep cherry picking has-been rowers for your videos. Sorry you didn't make the college rowing team.
For those of you listening to specialists with their BS, this video proves one thing for sure: May not matters much about techniques or how clean blades hit the water, or your shoulder position , etc. All BS, power and stroke rate is what matters. Kayak will win every time because the high stroke rate with similar power output.
The fact is that a kayak will most likely go faster than are shell due to the fact that kayaking is a continuous flow of forward momentum as to rowing being a stopping starting type of motion. This will be 9/10 the deciding factor in this kind of race.
Γιατί είναι καλύτερες, έχω πάει σε αγώνες και έχω βγει πρώτη και σε δικοπο και είμαι 13 (πίστεψε με στην ηλικία νου με δύναμη 1:50 στο εργομετρο το Χιλιάρι είναι καλός χρόνος)
There are so many unsaid variables in this race. Men vs. women, K1 vs 2 person sculling shell, level of fitness and competition level...? So IF this video is trying to state implicitly that kayakers are faster than rowing shells etc. I am afraid they fall short. Cool idea though.
Sorry but I don't belive you: Female 4X 500m: 1.44 And they are very experienced. As stated below ergo times don't mean anything, I pull out a 1:30 at the ergo and I'm not even close to that in water
Claire Odd I am a Lightweight Junior sculler and my personal best over 500m is an 1:45 so this comparison doesn't say anything but those girls aren't the fastest
You're actually dumb. They were pulling a 34-36 for the whole piece. I don't know what your stroke rates are like, but the only situation where you should be above that is during your sprint, or starting sequence.
I was surprised. I expected the rowing scull to be faster. Then I read the other comments. Sounds like they pitted an athletic kayaker against a couple of recreational rowers. FWIW I paddle in an OC6 or an OC12. The purpose is to have fun, not to go fast. We go slow and I have a blast.
Look at what time the olympic single sculls come through: 1'40s. They still have 1500m more to go. Even in veterans on 1000m at 40 years with 68 kg I was as fast.
Interesting video, but kayaks and this type of row boat are made for totally different purposes. If you raced these two boats against each other in rapids, the results would be totally different.
If you are and can't beat a kayaker just bad >>>> rowing uses the biggest muscles in the body>>> any male rower should be under 7 min 2k >>> the elite should be under 6:20 for 2k except they stroke too slow >>>rowers are in an ideal strength position like a squat or dead lift >>>> but have exit from the water >>> plus sitting on your ass in both makes it easier >>> YES C-1 RULES
"Lets have a fair race with a K1 trying to out sprint a K2", said no one ever. Put a K2 kayak, with Hank Mcgregor and Andy Birkett together, and the 2 best rowers, the kayak will come out victorious.
Mathew Hollins K2 vs a double, the double should come out victorious, those rowers in the video looked so relaxed, it even looked like they had a stroke rating in the 20’s
That kayaker's paddling form was great, and the speed of the stokes was amazing. He definitely deserved to win. Although the two women were pretty amazing too.
Why didn't you use a single man rowing boat? I mean the video is great but it's useless because we can't really compare two boats that have a different ammount of crew members. Plus male and female give very different performances in these sports wich is why we have different categories in first place. Great idea but very weak delivery.
DaRealCarlos \ it's not easy in Austria to organize something like this. We have less than 10 kayakers and the amount of rowers is also very low. I know that this is not the perfect Battle, but better than no Video in my opinion.
Great Video concept! Kayaks definitely move fast. But not quite a truly Versus video. It's comparing apples to oranges. Let's have a Men's 1x Single scull vs a Kayaker over 500m distance and a separate race over 2k distance. And let's have the athletes be similar in experience and weight class. Men vs Women is not a good comparison for these types of sports.
Enticing title, and impressive athletes (even if they're amusingly mismatched)! But not really a very interesting video. How about several better-matched teams over several courses? Then there are the more interesting questions. For example, move beyond just straightline speed over a short course in a flat calm. How about some followups including 20-km open-water courses, wind, waves, etc? Compare the two for bringing some passengers or cargo quickly from a rocky beach out to a sailboat? I think it's a bit sad that many people have forgotten that once rowing and kayaking were both much more than just tame and useless sports done in carefully-controlled conditions, where at the mere whiff of real-world conditions or actual utility we weakly roll over and surrender to motorboats.
Hmmm ... boats need to be the same size and weight ... with the rowers having the same level of athletics abilities ... etc. I'm pretty sure the rower would then win ... 2 woman in a bigger and heavier boat against a single man in a smaller and lighter boat is simply not fair.
The guy had fairly good kayaking technique while the girls made a lot of rowing technique errors, accompanied by an unfair match-up and utterly shoddy boat speed...this was rigged in the kayaker's favour. Even assuming an elite kayaker could perform significantly faster than that, so can a rower. With a 2k pace of 19km/h- 21km/h in a single scull, it would easily transfer over to much faster 500m. And they'd get the stroke rate up as well, to over 40 strokes per minute. Expect bonkersly faster boat speed for both crews and you know how this turns out.
Also noting that this vid was probably made for entertainment and for the enjoyment of the activity rather than for accuracy and legitimate comparison. It's more like some friends getting together and racing their bikes vs their friend's supercar that they rented for the weekend. Not getting like Hamish Bond, Rob Waddell/Robbie Manson or Ollie Zeidler and taking them in a direct pit against the Olympic gold medalist kayakers.
Hi friend, the time lap 1:50 for 500 mt is a very good time by k1. But not for the double! This boat it very speed, So I think that the two athletes... Weren't in good phisical condition.
The result could have been more even with man vs 1 man or woman vs 1 woman The strength would have been the same and perhaps the weight would make a difference
From what little I know (real little) about displacement craft and waterline length the 2 place boat with the women rowers should have smoked the 1 person kayak, as excellent as he was.
I understand you don't think rowers are good athletes but really rowing is a sport that you have to have a good mind set and be a good sport to do well in but sadly I guess you don't have those two things😉
from what i remember, single male sculler = women's four, which is slightly slower than a quad, which is faster than a double by a bigger margin. a battle of the sexes handicap at any rate. kayak most efficient boat, but a little slower than a scull in even competition.
a kayaker will be faster than a rower at a 500 metres race because their races are only 500 and 250 metres. On the other hand rowing is about big distance so of course they can't be as fast as a kayaker...rower's work out is focused on big distance and miles but if a kayaker would race 2000 metres their definitely would be won. So I am not sure if someone could compare a rower with a kayaker there's a big difference between them
