This is definitely one of the best RU-vid videos I've ever seen. It is not just edited at a good pace, one you can follow and understand, no annoying background music, just enough technical information to show up that the speaker knows what he says, and of course good realistic and credible demonstrations. I think this is a model to follow. Thanks a lot, Geoffrey Crocker, you earned a follower in Peru.
Great video! So much value! I would have never thought vinegar was so weak, I've used it in the past with good result but as you said I left stuff in there for a long time :') Thanks man!
Thanks Black Beard. I think vinegar works ok if you give the part a scrub every so often to help it along, but I wanted to keep the comparison with the other acids so I didn't touch it.
I don't agree with his comments on vingar. Two days ago I derusted several sets of various pliers, far more oxidized than the nut he used. 24 hour soak and 99 percent of the rust was gone , all gone with wire brush.
Vinegar. There are a lot of guys out there who swear by vinegar. I didn’t mean to imply that vinegar is useless. If you’ve got time or help things along with a bit of scrubbing, it works fine. The point of this video was to show how the methods stack up - not whether or not they would ultimately be successful. Every method in this video works.
fair enough, it does work, but with more time, days or a week in my experience, but that may suit sometimes, and its handy for small stuff thats not gonna fly in electrolysis
Vinegar truly not useless. I had serious doubts, but while I was waiting on my oxalic acid to come in the mail, I soaked some rusty sockets in vinegar for 2 days, taking them out and only lightly brushing them with a wire brush a couple of times (seriously, putting forth almost zero effort in doing so.) Only 2/10 had any rust left whatsoever, and on those, the remaining rust was tiny and difficult to spot.
Using vinegar to clean out a rusty 20 gallon air compressor tank and it definitely works. Just not real cost effective when you need 20 gallons of it, so gonna get some oxalic acid powder as it seems the cheapest way to make that much solution.
Heat the vinegar beforehand and gaze at it dissolving the rust!
6 лет назад
Probably the best blend of chemistry and practical view of the rust removal issue on RU-vid. Ill go for 12v 5A on a 25Lt plastic container, with good ventilation...
I've watched and read a lot of information of all the methods you presented here. I'd say your presentation is the most complete and comprehensive for the home gamer perspective. Big thumbs up for taking the time and sharing your findings with us.
I've found dipping parts in a 20% Phosphoric acid solution and leaving for up to 24 hours dependent on severity of rusting to be the most effective method for 100% removal. As you mentioned it will corrode and etch the steel, but after a full 24 hours I've found the effect to be truly negligible and the etched surface left is also excellent for painting.
Yeah, phosphoric acid is the way to go. Infrared heater (conductive heat) will speed up the process. The colder it is, the slower the reaction. Does not eat steel much at all.
Hmmm...your vinegar is very expensive and didn't seem to do much. I soak things overnight and have never had it fail to make the parts rust free- some come out looking new - not sure what is happening here???? I use it /c it is so inexpensive. I think I pay 2.00 a gallon locally. BTW - not sure if you can get it or not, but a product called Acid Magic is a buffered Hydrochloric at full strength, but it does not burn your skin and the vapors are almost a non-issue. Its also not all that expensive. Just don't get it into a cut. Its also easy to forget its a concentrated HCl b/c of it not burning skin.
This is a complete overview of rust removal methods, and very well done at that. Bravo! With regard to electrolysis, the use of a carbon anode instead of a steel anode will eliminate rust scum from floating on top of the solution in the electrolysis container. See the Shopdog Sam videos on this subject on his RU-vid channel. Once he started using carbon anodes, he never had to change his solution because of floating scum. These carbon rods are available from welding supply houses. For quicker action with vinegar, use a 30% or greater concentration, but wear gloves and work outdoors - the fumes are very strong.
I used concentrated vinegar (here inGermany called Essig Essenz) with 25% acidity. Costs about 0.70 EUR for third of a liter. Works much faster. I apply it with a brush and after some hours I apply some if needed. Then rinse it. These acids though affect the metal surface and the molecular structure so that they more easily will rust again. So you need to keep them safe from humidity and treat them soon after with coating (varnishing or oiling or galvanizing etc.)
ALWAYS add acid to the water, not the other way around (which you did)! Luckily, it didn't cause any harm in your case, it certainly can. With stronger acids, adding water to acid can cause immediate boiling of the water that hits it, spraying hot acid out of the container (and onto you!) The same can occur with strong bases-like sodium hydroxide (lye). It doesn't happen every time, but due to its relative unpredictability, it's much better to be safe than sorry.
Add concentrated acids to water yes. When concentrated acids are strongly hydrophilic and exothermic and so can cause a violent slash as soon as a large amount of acid comes into contsct with a small amount of water, hence avoiding this by adding small amounts of acid to water bit by bit.
@@dantheman1337 You should do a video of that.. Many have tried and many have failed trying to show that as an example.. Think about it.. Exothermic Reaction.. Try it with a blow torch.. Violent reaction?
The 'add acid to water' applies to sulphuric acid, the acid used in car batteries. This is particularly true if it's the drain cleaner variety. That stuff is concentrated sulphuric acid. Adding water, particularly small quantities, to it *will* cause an extremely violent exothermic reaction and it *will* boil and spit. The same applies to drain cleaners that use sodium hydroxide, caustic soda. I cannot emphasise enough *WEAR SAFETY GLASSES* because one drop of conc. sulphuric acid or sodium hydroxide in your eyes *will* destroy ones sight. As additional point it's worth noting that oxalic acid is highly toxic. Yes, it does occur in certain foods (Rhubarb is one example), but in low concentrations.
Awesome video, pertinent, clearly enounciated, to the point, with nice behind the scene science explanations and great points on safety and real world affects to metal. Subbed.
That was the most coherent demonstration and explanation of this topic that I've seen - and pitched at just the right level for the hobbyist. This and the one on plating that I watched just before. You've given me the confidence to start trying this stuff. Well done - you are a born teacher.
You have to use Pickling vinegar for better results, it is 12-15% acetic acid, 24 hour soak typically removes all rust, then I soak same length of time in baking soda solution to neutralize the acid. Evapo-rust gets much more affordable if you buy it in 1 gallon or 5 gallon quantities.
The lemon juice trick saved one of my stained glass windows that I'd had to leave sitting for several months! The flux wasn't getting the copper foil clean and every thing online said vinegar but that wasn't making any kind of difference. I tried lemon juice and was finally able to clean up the copper so I could solder it. Thank you!
@@boxsterman77 That doesn't mean that copper doesn't form a patina that makes it impossible to solder. Copper foil is too fragile to scrub away the patina without destroying the foil. Does it really matter that it wasn't exactly what the topic of the video was covering if the information helped?
19:02 ewww...all that tedious grinding, sanding, mechanical motion. nuts to that. SO much easier to just let the rust disappear. Plus...by soaking it in something it gets every angle, every corner, every spot. Example; I could not remove all the rust from my car's jack with a grinder/wire brush. I just couldn't get to most of the little crevices. If I could soak it in something, it would get everything.
3 days soak in white vinegar and just about any thing on the surface can be removed with a wire brush under running water, old paint, rust, caked on dirt ext. very little pitting after 3 days if any and a angle grinder with a polish wheel (or grind wheel if you know what your doing but if your using this you dont even need the vinegar) will fix that right up boom patience is key and remember after stripping put gun oil, motor oil, or desired paint on the part immediately or else you'll be right back where you started with hours if not worse in days
Great video. Very clear and informative, thanks! Another RU-vidr has used a domestic cleaning product we get here in the UK called Harpic Power Plus Original 10X. It is essentially a toilet bleach that contains 9g hydrochloric acid per 100g. I have experimented on a very rusty old chain and with a little light scrubbing it seems to work. At under £2 per 750ml bottle it is worth trying. Face and hand protection needed though.
excellent video. best I've seen on the subject. I'll be going the citric acid route as I don't want anything aggressive to clean up my 40 year old Snap-On old feeler gauges
Being a Land Rover tinkerer and also a Carpenter and joiner of over 3 decades experience, I discovered SBR. It is the same stuff as rust converter IMHO but much, much cheaper! I have used it to excellent effect converting rust prior to paint. SBR is a sealing/adhesive/additive but reacts exactly the same as rust converter when used as such - in fact I believe it is better! SBR can be mixed with cement powder to form an incredible bonding coat which sticks even to bitumen or glass! I have always fancied experimenting with SBR/cement powder to coat rust and test it in the sea... Watch this space, I guess?
Great video explaining the process. I used vinegar to remove rust from hand tools and remove rust from tools that I could easily had to trash them. It did not come out 100%. Definitely they came out how lot better and cheaper and very useable
I loved your video as I have used mostly white vinegar with salt and have had acceptable results but I really loved the ending where you threw down the real tool for rust removal of large items as I also love my angle grinder and to me it's the most versatile tool in my shop.
Very good video with great information. There was just enough chemistry to explain what was occurring during the rust removal, or metal in some cases, I have been looking for this type of information for several months. I have completed several projects involving large rusty cast iron parts. I used molasses because I heard it did not damage the base material, but was very effective in removing rust. I did not want to use harsh caustic acid or damage these antiques with sand, water pressure, or mechanical methods. My friends suggested I just sand blast the parts. After they saw the results of the projects they thought differently. I also found out that this method loosens frozen threads and cleans areas grinder wheels or brushes can't reach. I believe you are correct about the oxilic acid in the molasses being slow and not as effective as other solutions, but given the length the part is soaked gives time for secondary chemical reactions to occur. It has been observed and noted, but to my knowledge the byproduct of that chemical reaction has not been accounted for. That secondary chemical reaction is the fermentation of the sugar as part of the molasses to ethanol. I am no chemist, but see if this makes sense. I didn't take time to balance the equations. C6H12O6 > C2H5OH > CH3CO2
I enjoyed the video. Was pretty dang informative. What ratio baking soda to water would you recommend to neutralize hydrochloride acid that’s been diluted 1/1… its for a large panel. I’d have to spray it on with a spray bottle. Also, reckon you can use aquarium salt for electrolysis? 👍
@@GeoffreyCroker thanks for the reply. I appreciate that. I wonder why I keep hearing people say to use baking soda water to neutralize acid on the parts after spraying with water?
@rikityrik because they saw it on the internet? HCl can only exist in water. It becomes a gas in concentrations above about 50%. So in the case of HCl no acid will remain on the part once dry, because it has become a gas. But to answer your original question, anything alkaline will‘neutralise’ acid. Soapy water works just the same as baking soda or caustic soda or whatever. Any amount will be more than enough to deal with acid left on a part after it’s been dunked in water as well. You would only have to have the right amount if you we’re trying to balance a container of acid or whatever.
Excellent tutorial. Really well explained. My preferred methods are Hydrochorlic and Evaporust. I heat my Evaporust in a little boiler and it works brilliantly. As you say its not cheap but you can use it over simply by filtering . It does leave a black film though when it ages and you have to scrub it off and protect against flash rust if youre not painting straight away . Tool steel with high carbon will also stain black.
Super useful video, such a pleasure to have all this info in one place & great that you had the fortitude to see it through. I have used most of the methods & agree with you that the wire brush is the best, so immediate & so none disrupting of the work process. If I am over painting I tend to use wire brush then rust convertor, accelerated with hair dryer & then prime, hair dry, top coat. Somehow the wait times for the other methods cause too much of a loss of momentum. Thank you for sharing!
Hydrochloric acid is by far the BEST and FASTEST derusting method... I always have a few litres of it in case something rusty comes around.. a few minutes bath and it's like new :-) in comparison to other methods where you have to wait hours.
@@rudysmachado5747 Sodium bicarbonate aka baking soda diluted in water will neutralise any remaining acid.. I always have it premixed when handling hydrochloric acid and dip everything into it after the acid bath.
Geoffrey, absolutely brilliant video, both content and presentation! You've covered all bases and given me an easy way to set up a simple electrolysis system. I use that particular tannic acid product all the time for outdoor touch-ups as the coating acts as a primer (or final coat if I'm lazy). Love the dry Kiwi humour!
Pool acid (muriatic acid) is another type of acid that is relatively easy to get. Did you try using acid to remove the coating left by electrolysis? It might only take a quick dip, not enough to harm the metal.
What about stainless steel that has been finished (brushed, bead/sand blasted, polished) and has tiny spots of rust in some areas? Any methods to take the rust off without damaging the finishing on the rest of the part?
Your very methodical and clearly communicated approach makes me suspect that you are very talented teacher. You have certainly taught me a few things. Many thanks.
I always thought that the added benefit of soda, apart from being an electrolyte, is that it massively reduces surface tension, allows the process to remove loose material quickly and gets into all those nooks and crannies easier avoiding bubbles sticking to the surface etc... Good vid, many thanks!
Excellent comparison video. I have some rusted brake discs to clean up, so I'll probably go with phos.acid at 40%, which worked well on rusty scaffold fittings. It's good to see you used a proper electrolysis pencil, too. They cost more than regular flat pencils, but they last a long time.
You left out the most important method, caustic soda with heat and aeration, strips of rust, grease and dirt leaving a clean surface behind and is completely safe on steel. Must not be used on aluminium or pot metal as they will just dissolve.
My favorite method is to use molasses. 10% molasses to 90% water to the size of the container. Its totally harmless to you and the environment. Submerge your items completely & let it sit for 7-10 days. It'll come out black as coal, but 5 minutes with a brush & it'll be clean. I tried it by a RU-vid video of guys doing a pickup truck door. If you try it once, you'll be hooked.
excellent overview - love ya work! but, I think you sold vinegar a bit short. I don't know what you did or the difference between how I use it, but I get spectacularly different results. Yes, I often need to leave things in vinegar for a couple of days, the results are astoundingly good. It comes out much like electrolysis - covered in black gunk that needs to be scrubbed off. But it just eats thru rust and leaves the surface pristine. I am constantly amazed how effective it is - just requires patience and for the price, I am happy to indulge patience. Cheers. Looking forward to what you do with your LandRover!
haha, cheers Svengali. No agenda here. I have no idea why the vinegar performed so poorly. I knew from the past that it wouldn't be as work as well the others, but I expected a little more change. The nuts were all the same before I started - degreased and ultra sonic cleaned.
I believe you - I was amazed at how poorly it performed compared to the results I get consistently. Cheers and keep up the excellent work. I do a little tool restoration myself and you inspired me to always do better. That Stahlwille job was insanely good! Almost obsessively good, but something to aspire to, because I can see that it possible to do work of that calibre.
Svengali & Geoffrey, your vinegar experiences are both right in my experience. It's very weak, and requires a lot of patience, but will get the job done over the course of a week. It's weakness is an asset when you need gentleness and are not in a rush. I use it anytime I need to clean up something small like small battery contacts if an alkaline battery has leaked and corroded them. I can soak the thin bits in vinegar overnight for days without worrying about coming back to an empty bowl.
Vinegar is awesome! I had a long roll cage tube that was pretty rusty. I got a slightly bigger abs tube and capped it off. Put the pipe inside and poured vinagar into it to fill it. Waited a couple days and then bingo! Super clean.
Absolutely, brilliant suggestion! I use an ultrasonic cleaner after de-rusting very small parts, or parts with shapes that a wire brush can't reach..or my fingernail for that matter (smile). It will depend on the power of your ultrasonic device, and the size of the part. Most ultrasonic cleaner basins are made of stainless steel. Phosphoric acid and HCl will react with the stainless. If you use the chemical rust removers, rinse the parts thoroughly before eating.... urm-uh- No, my mistake. Rinse before shaving...oops I'll try again... Rinse the part in water before placing them into the ultrasonic tub (smile).
Excellent video! I prefer to use phosphoric acid to treat/convert rust on bolts, frames and everything else that is rusty. Did the whole underside of my Chevy Van with phosphoric acid in a regular spray bottle, let it dry and work its magic then applied some oil for protection. Wear a mask if you spray it because it burns a bit on the skin... If you got a car with automatic trans you got a lifetime free supply of used ATF "oil" to lube bolts, locks, hinges and other stuff. Mix it with some acetone if you need more penetration. //Daniel from Sweden
All acid require and an amine inhibitor to prevent damage to the base steel. Molasses has organic inhibitors along with oxalic acid. Also treating with lime water or sodium carbonate will stop the acids and leave the surface as light alkaline,. Excellent video - nicely done.
I found sulfuric acid works best on steel and iron parts. But they must be free of paint and not have any plating, Plating will give mixed results. Those coatings tend to make the acid attack the bare metal and leave deep pitting. Remember that warm diluted acids work far better then concentrated cold acids. I get my sulfuric acid directly out of any charged car battery.. enough to fill a small jar or cover the parts/tools you are cleaning. watch the parts closely as sulfuric acid is very agressive and should make the metal sparkling clean in a half hour. Nuetralize the parts/tools with baking soda and wash with warm water then give them a coat of WD-40 or light oil. ware protective gloves, eye protection and old clothing when handling sulfuric acid
I like the electrolysis method, but please be aware that electrolysis is likely to cause hydrogen embrittlement of high tensile steel, such as the wheel nuts shown, which can be very dangerous. There is a simple remedy, bake the parts at about 250 deg C for half an hour immediately after electrolysis, in an electric oven. A flame or a gas oven will not work, as the combustion products themselves damage the metal. A domestic oven cranked right up will do, or you could use an induction heater, but don't make the parts red hot. Also, oxalic acid is extremely toxic and needs very careful handling. True, it is found in many vegetables in trace amounts, but the quantity in a rhubarb leaf would make you very ill. On balance, electrolysis is the most environmentally friendly and safest method of all those tested. I just wish it was feasible for large objects like cars.
Geoffrey that was the best and most understandable test and description of how each of these methods work, all I need now is a massive plastic tank and quite a few phone chargers so I can immerse my Mini shell into!! Thank you for taking the time to make this excellent video.....
Great video, I try to always use electrolysis as you can recover the item. I had a badly rusted ride on mower deck that I made a custom tank to run the electrolysis in and after a couple of days I could weld the brackets back in place and returned the mower to it’s useful state
Just stumbled upon....great video new setup soon. Used evaprust and yes works great. Doesnt last forever and is costly.. Thanks for info Btw grinder is first choice if possible
I appreciate your explanation of the usefulness of each process. I've used them all except Evapo-Rust but I didn't know the ideal scenarios for their uses. Practicality means a lot and I learned that even Phosphoric Acid has its place -- for a pre-plating wash. This is brilliant. I am undertaking a motorcycle restoration and the fuel tank is slightly rusty, inside. I will probably start with Citric Acid based on this video and up my rust removal game. Thank you.
Oops, forgot to mention another treatment recommended to me by an old mechanic and engine reconditioner. This is to paint heavily rusted parts with a 50:50 mixture of old engine oil and diesel. Only problem with this mixture is that you have to leave the affected part six or more months for the deep rust to fall off. Great results apparently, although I have not tries it myself.
Ha Ha....Loved the ending music from 'Rust In Peace'. Nice breakdown of the effectiveness of these products. Apparently I have what I need under the sink.
It was so clearly explained that I thought I'd give electrolysis a go. First rusty bolt is fizzing away as I type. Really enjoyed watching your vids during lockdown in the UK. Thanks for helping me pass the time and learn something new.
Hey, guys! Nice video uploader! I got 3 lovely typewriters recently. One of which is a Facit 1620, and her type bars are rusty, this blocking the keys. I was wondering which products would work best. No knowing which metal alloys are they made with. Cheers! ;)
My understanding was the molasses was a chelating agent making the iron oxide soluble in water - however, I suck at chemistry! Molasses works extremely well, but takes forever and stinks!
Yes. There is a degree of chelation in oxalic acid. Same with citric to a lesser extent. I think citric acid was actually the first chelating chemical they discovered for use in treating metal blood poisoning.
I just got white vinegar and it works like crap. Last year I used apple cider vinegar and it worked in a day or so. I haven't retested it, but as of now white vinegar is very very slow.
Oh yah it February and it's 86° and the humidity is creating rust on my bike chained up in the back. Yah we don't get much of a winter in Florida it's always hot it sucks bro.🙂
