RWBY Revisited: Atlas, Ironwood, and the Ace Ops 

Honestly I blame the writing on most of Ironwood's decisions.

12:38 people defended Ironwood for what happened in volume 7. It seems like the writers didn't like the viewers siding with "not the good guys" so they doubled down and made him and his beliefs absolutely wack. He was never shown to WANT to screw anyone over in most of v7. He was secretive and traumatized, yes, but nothing he did was out of spite or malice. Then he has this sudden, kinda out of nowhere turn at the end when he finds out the only people he's been trusting had betrayed him. Then it opens to Ironwood being a complete screwball in v8 to REALLY let the fans know "the only right choice is the one the main cast likes" What it comes down to in the two logics of Ruby v Ironwood is "save them all, even tho it'll take longer and you could end up losing them all" vs Ironwood's "save who you can, cut your losses" it was never made into anything else but those principles. People always talk about logistics of "where will they get food" but I don't recall team RWBY ever mentioning that? But I could be wrong! 🤷‍♀️ It always just drove me nuts that the writers MADE you choose to root ONLY for team RWBY and fuck any nuance, differing priorities or lines of thought.

Mostly poor writing plagues this arc. Atlas is the most advanced until it needs to fall. It needs the best technology and cool robots for team RWBY to fight until it needs to defend itself. Ironwood needs to be a strong capable leader because he is a military commander with enough skill to do a ton of stuff... Right up until we need him to fail because why would the best military with training, size, gadgets, amd so forth... Fall the moment team RWBY arrives? Why let a deadly criminal live when Ironwood in season 1-3 would have double tapped the body? Because we need the villain to escape for plot related reasons.

Ironwood did Multiple things good. While team rwby didn tell him shit, he told them about his whole plan.

There were two plans in volume 7-8, Ruby's plan was to try save everyone and the Maiden and two relics, however this ran the risk of losing everyone and the relics and Maiden. The other was Ironwoods plan which was to move Atlas and securing the Maiden, two relics and half the kingdoms populace, however this would be leaving the other half to whatever fate Salem decided for them. Ruby's plan is high risk high reward, were as Ironwoods gives certianties. This is not a black and white situation both plans have positives and negatives and i know people hate this but its sadly true that sometimes you can't save everyone, sometimes you have to make a call that does kill people or leave people behind, it would be nice if we could get away with saving everyone but we can't. Personally if it was me i would go with Ironwoods plan because without the Relics and Maiden Salem can't continue with whatever she has planed yes its leaving Mantle to its fate, but Salems target isn't Mantle its the Relics and Maiden, if you put the relic in an abandoned town Salem would be attacking that and not Atlas, so by moving the Relic you might also have a chance to save Mantle to, its a slim hope as Salem might just burn it to the gound in spite buts a chance, but even if Mantle is destroyed you've stopped Salem from destroying the world and if it comes to losing a few hundred thousand (At most) or possiblily billions of people well the grim (No pun intended) arithmatic of war says that thats the option you go with and sadly the cast is at war a war for all of humanity, yes leaving Mantle to die is a bad option, but its the least bad option you have.

It's clearly bad writing as to why Atlas was ineffective. Though I came up with a good reason why that was the case in canon that RT should've used if they wanted Atlas to be so incompetent with fans also understanding why: Paper Tiger A paper tiger is a term used to refer to something or someone that claims or appears to be powerful or threatening, but is actually ineffectual and unable to withstand challenge. This term seems to fit Atlas surprisingly well because whenever Atlas had an opportunity to show off their strength, they failed miserably.

I think Ironwood not trusting the lying RWBY cast would work. Vol 8 ruined him by making him outright evil.

Until V8 Ironwood was a good character with flaws(I won't discuss V8 cause I have no defense for his insane actions there). Sure he demmanded obedience(which makes sense for the leader of an entire army) and his solutions were mostly blunt force but his heart was in the right place. He saw Ozpin "fight Salem from the shadows" strategy fail during the fall of Beacon and made a new plan to bring Salem into the light so that everyone could unite against her and destroy her with everything they had. And he placed himself as the leader because without the experience of Ozma he, as the leader of the most powerful military in Remnant, was the best person to lead such a war effort. His plan in V7 was sound and team RWBY agreed to it and even helped him, Ruby was happy when Ironwood revealed Salem to Atlas and hijacked his plan to reveal Salem to the whole of Remnant (without the Atlas military to help the other kingdoms to deal with the panic it would cause like Ironwood planned to do). We as an audience can see that without Ozpin's guadience he is slowly cracking under the weight but our main characters never adres this, they follow his orders for most of V7 and they innact his plans even after they had their falling out so his plans weren't the issue. If it was how he opperated it is very insulting to see that they were willing to talk things out with Emerald, someone who willingly helped destroy beacon and kill Penny with 0 remorse, and not Ironwood, a trusted ally with good intentions who was cracking under the weight of the responsibilities that was trusth upon him/he took on. Yet they hardly show him compassion or try to talk to him. The worst offender of this is Winter saying "You sacrificed everyone else" and "You squeezed Mental until it broke". Ironwood sacrificed his public image, the favours he built up and his arm to stop Salem and his forces not to mention declaring martial law to get the resources needed to complete Amity was Winter's idea, she was the one who suggested it. They blame Ironwood for lying about Amity being complete, a lie he told to capture Watts, yet they don't reflect on the lies they told him about Salem and the Lamp or Yang and Blake going behind his back. Which is a similar reaction they had to Ozma's secrets. They chastised him for keeping secrets about Salem when they were fighting her yet they did the exact same thing to Ironwood with 0 reflection on why Oz kept things secret or how they berated him after learning about his very tragic backstory.

It would’ve been interesting to see him turn into a General Shepherd type character. The problem is that volume 7 made him more likable then everyone else.

I honestly found Winter's switch way too soon. She was Ironwood's most trusted soldier and seemed close to him, but then fights him without any emotion.

It was said in the volume eight commentary that ironwood lost half of the army to Salem when she invaded Atlas in episode 7 but I'm confused as to why the rest of the army and even students at the academy weren't fighting when they got to vacuo where did the happy huntresses go why didn't they stay to help evacuate people through the magic doors or help when they got to vacuo it's confusing and I get the feeling because of how things are going at RT and with Ruby right now they're just going to have a few months time skip or a few year time skip when the main heroes get back to vacuole and they'll just show how all the regular civilians and happy huntresses and all the military have either joined vacuole and trying to help maintain peace there or whatever because it's one of the most dangerous kingdoms to live in it and then after that we won't really see a lot of the military or other characters outside of winter a couple of cameos from some of that happened huntresses in the background and we'll just see other familiar faces from volumes 1 through 3 and that's it we won't get that much focus on the military again I bet like how we haven't gotten that much focus on the white thing since volume five and I don't think we'll see anything on it ever again till the final volume when everybody comes together to fight Salem

This is a bit misinformed. Things like questioning why he orderd for team RWBY's arrest when it's made clear to him and the audience that they'll undermine his attempts to evacuate Atlas, despite previously being an asset to him. It's not real difficult to understand his rational at least in V7. Yet questioning why let Watts live even tho Watts would undoubtedly have information on Salem and her disposition that he lacks potentially vital information he looses if Watts dies.

I think you weren't paying attention when certain plot points were explained. Ironwood spelled out precisely what he wanted to do with the Staff of Creation. Team RWBY's disagreement with that plan was soely about the people of Mantle not having finished evacuating to Atlas at the time Ironwood wanted to take Atlas mobile. Ironwood discussed the food supply logistics, and honestly, look at the territory surrounding Atlas as it stands. No one is farming that tundra. All the food production is in Atlas proper in the artificial environment. We even see the farmland on Atlas as it is serving as the main battlefield when the Grim pour out of Salem's whale. Your suggestion that Ironwood attempt to get Penny out of the city using a set of robots as distractions misses the fact that by the time Penny is the Winter Maiden, Penny is with Team RWBY and not Ironwood. He spends the entirety of Volume 8 unsuccessfully attempting to get Penny back, so I'm not sure when you think he should have implemented this plan. You also missed that Ironwood spells out in his initial meeting with RWBY at the start of Volume 7 that the embargo was a sham from the start, intended to provide justiification for withdrawing his forces to Atlas in order to maintain order and hold off the Grim in the expected panic after he reveals Salem's existence to Atlas. As for why Ironwood is bombing Mantle, that would again be in an attempt to recover Penny, access the vault, and use the Relic of Creation to move Atlas away from the battlefield, retreating with as many people as he can. He views Mantle as already lost, and has an explicit AHA! moment when he realizes that Team RWBY don't think so too. That's why he threatens to bomb Mantle, and why he's willing to follow through. He realizes that RWBY consider those people saveable and thus might trade their survival for the chance to get the people he considers saveable away from the battlefield. You also missed that Martial Law was explicitly not declared prior to Salem's arrival. Winter suggests declaring Martial Law as a means to acquire the supplies to finish Amity, but Ironwood does not actually declare Martial Law for that purpose. He declares Martial Law only after Salem has arrived with her whale and the largest army of Grim ever seen. As for him shooting Sleet, Ironwood has been dealing with incompetence and malice among the people who were supposed to be on his side for a while now, and this idiot is asking why we are declaring Martial Law when there is an active state of emergency with a literal army of soulless creatures of destruction massed in force in a way that shows an intelligent force behind them. What situations, exactly, did Sleet think the provisions Atlas' government had for declaring Martial Law were supposed to be invoked in if not this one? Sure, shooting someone for pure stupidity may not be a good look, but who among us wouldn't be tempted?

Generally people sided with ironwood because he has given the characters prior to vol 7 no reason not to. He’s been nothing but nice to them defending Weiss at the party giving Yang her arm. The only time he’s ever antagonized them was during the Vytal Festival to Yang even then he wasn’t a dick about it and only did it to satiate the panicking public and like I said he made up for that. The show portrayed him prior to vol 7 ends as a flawed but good man making tough decisions but not necessarily the right ones.

1:33-1:40 We never actually see the hacked robots attack civilians only huntsman. 1:55-2:04 The only time they were effective was at the end of V2. 5:23-5:27 He did that after disqualifying Yang from the Vytal Festival. 6:07-6:13 It was because Winter sent a report to him that forces are mobilizing in Mistral. 8:38-8:41 He imposed a curfew because of the Grimm attack that happened after the Mantle massacre. 9:07-9:10 Ironwood: “If we talk about Amity now, we risk Salem’s forces who we know are here working to sabotage it. If we tell them about Salem now, we risk falling to the Grimm before we can reunite Remnant.”. 9:33-9:37 He defended Weiss at the fundraiser, gave Yang an arm, gave the relic back to team RWBY, trusted RWBY, JNPR, and Qrow with the Amity project, and gave RWBY&JNR their licenses. 10:01-10:13 The reason being that team RWBY stood against and told their allies about Ironwood’s plan of lifting Atlas, the relics, and the Winter Maiden away from Salem’s incoming forces. 10:56-11:05 Ironwood: “The city’s artificial climate will keep citizens and food supplies unharmed” 12:45-12:48 Agreed 13:56-14:00 The vault would have been opened by team RWBY because they needed a way to get everyone away from Salem’s forces. 14:10-14:11 Argus is a feasible option to place the refugees. 14:40-14:45 V8 turned him into a generic bad guy. 18:30-18:35 Before the fight started, Tyrian: ”It’s taking a very long time for this show to get to the good part.” Robyn: “He’s right. Let’s get this over with”. 22:39-22:43 Agreed

This man tries so hard to attack ironwood and just fails

Robyn doesn't need to be brought on board of the project. There's really no reason to involve her when her she couldn't help in any real capacity, so her involvement would be negligible. Ironwood also doesn't inact Martial law until sometime presumably between the end of V7 and the beginning of V8, that's why the councilor confronted Ironwood regarding it the very next morning after Salem's arrival.

This is late but Penny's memory can be used in court. Plot?

14:47 when people defend ironwood they leave out vol 8 because the end of vol 7 into vol 8 actively ruined ironwood by making him transparently evil.

I agree with you, it is not just rwby but almost every franchise has side characters or side bots are tend to be weaker than the main characters or just don't show up in any fight scenes

Whats the music at 20:00? I skipped through Adrian's videos but can't seem to find the right one.

Imagine if Ironwoods downfall happened later where he managed to unite the kingdoms into an alliance against Salem only to return to his extremist habits whose methods to keep humanity United and to prevent Salem from gaining more followers manage to get results but are seen as immoral and unethical by the rest of the cast. And he soon becomes the military dictator ruler of Remnant who believes that the people of Remnant need a single leader to rule over them, believing that Ozpins refusal to become king of Remnant during the Great War was a mistake.

I like your other vids but this one about Ironwood is your worst and reads long an tumbler bash blog. Do better.

I’m enlightened by the good in RWBY despite understanding its faults.

Love the video. Just to add a few points. Mantle at the very least was shown to not have any cyber defenses, as watts said it still had the same system that he had used to make them, allowing watts complete access to all Mantle’s computer systems. So Ironwood didn’t learn Jack from vol 3. Also how does atlas, s city that has the most advanced technology, and a monopoly on dust somehow also have a resource shortage problem? If all the dust isn’t being sold overseas, then why isn’t ironwood using it for Atlas’s, and mantles defense? The fact that Ironwood was also so opposed to negotiating. You’d think that if he know that team RWBY would be open to working with him if he’d offered to evacuate the civilians. Why not use one of his carriers for that? Not like he was using them anyway. There pretty much window dressing for the hole two volumes. Not only that but the military and security for atlas in general is just terrible. Argust was like fort nox by comparison and that’s not even the main city. Everyone likes to say that Ironwood was in the right and that his plan had merit, but I don’t see it. Salems plan from day one was to divide and conquer. Leaving mantle to die would have been doing Salem’s work for her, leaving you less people to use as allies. And trying to escape only works if there is a place to escape too. And Salem wasn’t going to let them escape. She’d just followed Atlas no matter how highly they’d fly up into the sky and further isolate themselves. So unless they were planning to go to the moon just going higher into the sky wasn’t going to work. Best bet would be to safeguard Penny and have her escape somewhere else. If Salem doesn’t have the maiden powers then she can’t open the vault. Granted the writing is really bad. The sudden heel turn was abrupt to everyone, and it’s not like the writers couldn’t think up better reasons to not trust Ironwood. Given Pennies robot identity was supposed to be a secret yet the bad guys knew it, the same robots Ironwood brought to beacon were used to attack it, the white fang even had the paladins that were also supposed to be Atlas military weapons that were not even out yet. And they had already been betrayed by someone from Oz’s inner circle that they thought they could trust. It was all there. For the greatest kingdom the problems started at the top and went all the way down. Making atlas all show, and no go.