RWBY Volume 6 Episode 3 Reaction 

I like how it’s implied that Dust is the remains of ancient humanity.

"Why is the moon shattered?" - The God of Darkness shot the door hard on his way out :D

It should be important to note, that Salem is hung up on the phrasing "so long as this world turns, you shall walk its face." Totally ignoring that she needs to learn the importance of life and death.

"Humanity, born from dust", is one of the first lines in the show, and now we know that this is literally: humans died, their dust is what the current humans do to "use magic". There is an episode where Pyrha and Ozpin are talking, and he asks her "what is your favorite fairy tale?", she awnser: "the girl in the tower", which if you think about it, every single fairy tale in this world is probably a real story that Oz told about one of his previous lives, and that includes the four maidens, which he is the old man that gave them their powers, since they made him remember his kids. Also, if you watch again, Oz asks "how can I destroy Salem", I think the phrasing was the problem. HE can't do it, and Salem can't be destroyed, the gods said that themselves, she needs to learn the importance of Life and Death, and that is how I think she will be defeated.

Salem walking remnent for millennia is a crazy thought.

It's as Ozpin said. Even with how Lionheart broke his trust and changed loyalties. 'My actions are backed by experience.' He felt he had to keep things hidden because of betrayal.

In response to your question of "why didn't he share all his knowledge?" I would only say, it's extremely hard to get followers when they think that Salem is invincible. I think that's what it really boils down to. As well as, he probably DID share this stuff beforehand. Remember his comment of "I've made more mistakes than any man, woman, or child." He probably has shared what he knows through some reincarnations, and that got him killed/turned on/blamed/ostracized. I can't imagine how many of his lives were just wasted, or cut short from a misstep. Man has my sympathy for sure.

"Pierce the sky, escape your fate. The more you try the more you'll just breed hate, And lies. Truth will rise, Revealed by mirrored eyes." - The lyrics of Sacrifice from the Volume 2 soundtrack

The thing that Oz didn't want anyone to know is that Salem can't be destroyed. As far as he's concerned, he's fighting an unwinnable battle, and is just trying to protect as many lives as he can. There aren't many people who will sign up for a war that boils down to simply staving off inevitable defeat. That and the whole story is very personal and traumatic for him, what with having Remnant's messiest romance ever and the deaths of his 4 daughters.

I like how the God of Darkness was flattered that a human finally went to him instead of his brother for once that he brought Ozma back right away with no strings attached

Fun fact: CRWBY have said that they've had this story planned since the beginning. Salem was actually the first character they came up with after the main heroes.

I love this backstory, and it finally answers why the world is called remanent because it literally is a remanent of the old world

The episode mostly speaks for itself. Does a great job making it clear that Ozma’s qualifications for being the one to save the entire world was just “slightly better at fighting than his contemporaries”. He’s in over his head, cursed, with no way to win. Just the holy orders to keep trying. The idea of this backstory was one of the earliest things plotted out. Obviously the details changed as they added in story beats like the Maidens, but Salem herself was devised either right after RWBY or JNPR (I forget if she was their 5th or 9th character). Edit: Tell a lie, there is some important subtext to point out here. Everyone who saw Jinn’s vision know there’s an actual afterlife waiting for them. That’s kinda a big deal.

This was the most lore form the show. The only other episode with this lore is in the latest season.

Pay attention to the God of Light’s words. He never takes responsibility and that will become clear as time goes on.

“How can I destroy Salem?” “You can’t.” How do you tell people following you that the fight is impossible? Also the kids were killed in the firefight between Salem and Ozma - which feels like a reference to the fact that the maiden powers pass on when each of them die.

Ozma and Salem's daughters were the inspirations for the first maidens. The wizard hermit from the fairy tale was Ozma in one of his lives he spent mourning. Meeting the kind, selfless sisters must have reminded him of his long dead children.

Oz never asked if he could save Salem. He frequently voices his concern about causing a panic and has throughout the show. The world knowing about Salem, an un-killable enemy, would certainly cause panic. Also, Salem invited others to try to kill her to convince them she was immortal. So I think the answer of "you can't" is applicable to everyone on the question of how to destroy Salem. I think there's a key bit of info in the part where Salem crawls out of the pool of Grimm.

There are two possible answers to how humanity returned. One is that the GoL decided to re-seed humanity. The other is that humanity and the faunus re-evolved. The 2nd possibility implies that Salem is not only ancient but incredibly ancient on the order of millions of years.

This episode alone set the tone and the stage for about maybe 70%-80% of things from here on. Choices, trust, fear, it kinda becomes a matter of “is there/WAS there any good choices?”

Remember Ozpin asking Pyrrha what was her favorite faerie tale? All the titles she mentioned can be seen in the events of this episode.

The main bad part to me is who would be willing to fight against an immortal enemy that cannot be killed or stopped.

I love that even in RWBY, the gods are just petty assholes. Like, obviously GoL has a point, life and death are a cycle. And yeah, it’s not fair but it’s how things work. What gets me though is that GoL then disrupts his own cycle to bring Ozma back anyway and gives Salem immortality! Like dude, wtf?! It’s not an inherently selfish act to want to bring a loved one back, and I’m certain most people have felt that way at least once. Of course, Salem wouldn’t know how to handle something like that, she has zero experience with these kinds of emotions. Not to mention Ozma was the only good thing in her life, and he was just suddenly taken away by an illness of all things. Also giving someone who had already proven to be manipulative immortality was the dumbest thing the gods could have done. As horrible as it sounds, their best option was to just let her live without immortality as long as she deigned or kill her themselves. They literally gave her the means to set in motion the events of the series. I think if Oz had been a little more forthcoming, not saying all of it but something like being more honest about the pros and cons of the lamp, Ruby wouldn't have asked Jinn anything. And because this needs clarifying, no Oz's kids were not the original Maidens. However, it is possible that one of the reasons did give the OG Maidens their powers is because they reminded him of his and Salem's children.

The death of Pyrrha changed the tone of the series. This episode changed what you thought you knew.

Whenever I watch this episode, my mind always sticks on one point; Technically, the Faunas were made in the image of The Gods - Human bodies with animal characteristics.

“I have made more mistakes than any man woman or child” he feels responsible for Salem. Also if he told the people around him that Salem can’t be killed that would bring the Grimm with despair

The brothers played hot potato with ozes life.

Finally we get to the real plot. After waiting so long, I'm glad you can see it now

pretty sure the kids aren't maidens but maybe were the inspiration for them later, as the legend goes it was a old hermit living by himself making the maidens when people came to visit him, (one of his depressed lives getting cheered up by strangers)

I don't think Jinn was pulling anything with her "you can't" answer. Salem cannot be killed. Period. She is immortal. The God of Light specifically said that she may only rest once she accepts the natural cycle of life and death. The only other feasible solution is uniting humanity and summoning the Gods with the relics in the hope that they will deal with Salem.

"Legends. Stories scattered through time. Mankind has grown quite fond of recounting the exploits of heroes and villains, forgetting so easily that *we are remnants,* byproducts, of a *forgotten past.* Man, *born from dust,* was strong, wise, and resourceful, but he was born into an unforgiving world..." - Salem, season 1 opening. Everything now makes a horrifying amount of sense. Why does Dust act like magic in crystalized form. Because it is. Who had magic? Humans did. Though it may have also come from the moon. Jury's still out on that one. Wanna know something else neat? Go back to the first time Weiss visits the CCT Tower way back in volume 2, you'll notice as she walks in there's 4 clocks on the wall, each set to a different time, one for each kingdom. The neat part? The clocks have the sigils of their respective Huntsmen academies on them, each a representation of the Relics we just saw. From this we can now infer where each Relic is located, what each represents AND which Maiden is needed to access it; The Lamp - Knowledge - Mistral - Spring (This one we've already seen and know pretty well. Note how it was located in a city that is noted for art and culture, writing, and whose people care about nature) The Staff - Creation - Atlas - Winter (Hmmm, funny how the Creation Relic is located in the most prosperous and inventive society in the world, which also happens to be on a continent made entirely of ice) The Sword - Destruction - Vacuo - Summer (A once prosperous and beautiful oasis, long ago destroyed and turned into a searing and deadly desert) The Crown - Choice - Vale - Fall (Perhaps the kingdom with the least obvious class divides and most opportunities for its citizens (Mistral had oppressive Emperors in the past, Altas has a huge hard-on for authority and Vacuo is, well, Vacuo) and which has a large and impressive year-round autumnal forest nearby) I could go on, making even further comparisons and such, but you get the idea. Oh and let's just run down the checklist of Salems powers shall we?; Absolute control over all Grimm True magic *True immortality* Yeah.... it's that last one that's the problem How do you defeat that? "You can't." That's why he was hiding things.

well that's the most rational and creative take I've seen someone take away from the Salem secret. I hope they enjoy the next episode! :)

the wording of how salem can be defeated is a tricky one. Ozma asked: "How do I destroy Salem?" it wasn't about destroying her, it was simply about defeating her. to break her free of her curse. but he was so intent on not forgiving he didn't ask the right question

This episode still gives me chills

I will say that the four daughters weren't the Maidens because they were born with all kinds magic where the Maidens only have elemental magic and as you saw with the toy laying there it's implied that the girls were killed during the battle between there parents. I do think that the original Maidens reminded Oz of his daughters. But something you may have missed is when the God of Light was about to leave he said the planet is merely a remnant of what it once was which Remnant is the name of the planet and also since new humanity doesn't have magic they have Semblances which is a Semblance of the magic they once had. Also something else noticeable if you pause on the moment, with Oz and his new family with the two kids both kids have Silver Eyes like Ruby a trait we know is hereditary since Ruby got them Summer like Qrow said in Volume 3 but we noticed that Oz's reincarnation doesn't have Silver eyes, their brown and the wives are blue, which has lead some people in the Fandom to believe that if Oz had children during one of his lives that instead of being born with magic they'd be born with Silver Eyes but that is a theory.

I recommend u now listen "Sacrifice" ones again bc now will make more sense. This song is from Raven to Oz and after that episode u will understand more.

No one can destroy or disempower Salem. The gods cursed her for a reason. All they have to do to defeat her is help her to understand what the gods want her to. It won't be easy, and may cost many more lives, to help her, but if they can, they might not need to destroy her.

Gonna need a cleanup on aisle Moon...

i honestly never thought about that delivery "you can't" but maybe ruby with her silver eyes can

God this episode is so good, it both explains everything that has been going on at this point while also completely changing the game when it comes to the war against Salem.

And this is the episode that made Ozpin and Salem my favorite characters and also made me start hoping that somehow, Ozpin and Salem's relationship is how they defeat her. After all, it's what started all this, it's only fitting that it helps end it. Since it pretty much confirmed that the original maidens were their children, perhaps part of Ozpin's curse was also inherited, and that's why the maidens' magic goes from host to host? Or maybe he did give four young women powers after they helped get him out of his depression, perhaps reminding him of his four daughters, and they're how he came up with the idea to give the maidens his magic in thanks. One of my biggest questions about the reincarnation thing is, does Ozpin keep his original semblance(if he had one), or does he use the semblance of his current carnation? Does he keep the semblances of his old lives? After all, the souls start separate before merging into one, so how does that work? The gods did also tell Salem how to remove her immortality, by learning the value of both life and death, she would be able to rest. But she instead kept trying to spite them, leading an army to try to kill them. Yeah, they definitely could have done something else, but Salem was also doing everything wrong. But all this adds complexities to both Ozpin and Salem that I love. (I also kinda ship them, but not as they *are* together more like I wish they were *still* together having lived together and changed for the better) but Ozpin doesn't control who his soul goes to, I'm sure many times he got reincarnated into the body of someone who already had a family, which kinda sucks cause it means he's likely lost many families, and I'm sure there's been at least one time his soul entered a woman's body, which must have been weird. The God of Light was trying to follow rules he and the God of Darkness created together, one of which is not to disrupt the balance of life and death. The god of darkness didn't really care for the rules, and was just going to do whatever he looked (as he said) but after hearing Salem lied to him because GoL wouldn't do it he realized Salem was manipulating him to bring Ozma back, she didn't actually believe only he could do it, like she had told him. They punished her for trying to manipulate them, and when the GoD destroyed humanity, GoL wanted to give humanity a second chance he knew eventually they'd evolve back into existence, so he gave Ozma the chance to help them. I don't think the reincarnation was meant to be punishment for Ozma, but it turned into one. Unlike Salem, Ozma didn't do anything wrong and i believe the GoL wanted to ensure Ozma didn't have to go through what Salem did, what he didn't count on was Ozma and Salem doing everything they did. Just my thoughts on this episode.

The lore drop when this came out was insane

Remember sometime Cinder said way back in... Volume 2? Maybe 3? "It's not about overpowering the enemy, it's about taking away what power they have." Definitely proud of you for keeping the sentiment in mind.

Easily the best episode of the show honnestly

I'll have more to say with next weeks episode, but for this one i will say one of my only gripes is exactly what Ken said, that you come out of this episode not really thinking Ozpin did anything bad when they built it up as some deep dark horrible thing that he did and is hiding it from them. It's the one thing i feel is missing from this backstory. I love the episode, don't get me wrong, but i was expecting things like Oz being careless with peoples lives and sacrificing hundreds of people in pursuit of his mission or something along those lines, or him somehow being responsible for the way Salem is created. I didn't want him to be irredeemable or be revealed as the True Evil of the story or anything like that, but something really objectively immoral that is unquestionably his fault that he is obviously ashamed of but would still put his character into question, something that shows he's not a Pure beacon of ultimate good morals and wisdom as one might initially think in this classic Good VS Evil story. I think it would have served to make him more complex and interesting than he already is and it would ultimately lead to the same short and long-term results in the plot (no spoilers).

Interesting thing to realize is that at first Ozma wasn't doing what he's doing now with Oscar and probably Ozpin too where he let's them have most of the control and will eventually merge with him, but instead Ozma just completely took permanent control of the person and did whatever he wanted just using the person's body as a vessel despite the other person's soul still being there.

Because Volume 10 is in such limbo, we may never truly find out the answer to the Salem question. But over the years I have solidified my belief in that it doesn't really have anything to do with Salem, but instead in what the god of light said was his task. To bring mankind together in harmony, THEN when the relics are brought together the gods will return and live with them again. And when you look at what the reincarnations of Ozma have done throughout time, starting with our perspective of Ozpin, his/their goal has always been to accept humanity (and the faunus) in peace. If you remember he was the antithesis of Ironwood in always pushing peace over war. Then when the gods return, let THEM deal with Salem.

"It was you who ended their lives, made them to dig their own graves. With your dark, sick, cruel design, convinced them their world could be saved. Have you no shame signing them up for your war? Train them to fight what they can't defeat, your sins are what they'll pay for." Ozpin KNOWS he's fighting an almost unwinnable war, yet he keeps sending bodies towards Salem to just die.

Fun Facts Fact 1: Miles Luna considers this to be one of the most complicated episodes the RWBY crew has ever made, on every level. Not counting credits, this is the longest episode of RWBY to date. Fact 2: Jinn refers to the Grimm as "The Brother's Grimm", most likely referencing The Brothers Grimm, two brothers responsible for the famous classic collection of German fairy tales, which includes Little Red Riding Hood, Snow White and Hansel and Gretel. Fact 3: Ozma and Salem's daughters wear dresses reminiscent of the four Maidens, blue (Winter, who also has ice crystal-like details), pink (Summer, whose yellow skirt also has a big Sun), green (Spring, whose bow and dress trimming also has a leaf-like pattern) and orange (Fall, with the upper parts in brown, similar to Amber's clothes). The eldest daughter in blue also has a chain headdress and belt like the ones worn by Jinn. Fact 4: The chapter was inspired by the Harry Potter series of novels and television series Game of Thrones. Fact 5: The whole episode was mocapped in a single weekend. Fact 6: The scene where Salem throws herself into the pool of Grimm was inspired by the video game "Brutal Legend". Fact 7: Originally, "The Lost Fable" was chapter 3 and 4, but they combined them into one. Fact 8: Originally, there was going to be more dialogue from the main cast during this episode, but they decided against it. Fact 9: The toy dog that one of the children has is a Wizard of Oz reference. Fact 10: The children for one of Ozma's reincarnations have silver eyes.

So now... You know just about everything. "You can't." OZMA can't, but there might be someone who can. Note: Back at the end of Volume 3, when Ruby's silver eyes flashed, it was the same light the Light God emitted when he changed into his Dragon form, the shockwave killing all the Grimm around him. "Victory is in a simple soul." "When you fail and you rely on your smaller soul, know you send her to the same pitiful demise." Ruby.

Never thought the shattering of the moon would be explained.

ok it hasent been said yet but the keepers of the relics have a peculiar way of speaking. the question asked was "how do i destroy salem?" and the answer was "you cant". that leaves the door open. it is not "she cant be" its "YOU cant". now that could be the only way she will end is if she learns her lesson or maybe there is another way and it just isnt known yet. it is a theory (do i hear mat pat?) but it is a possibility. btw this is my fav lore of all of RWBY. this was so well done. oh and remember the intro from episode 1 "man was born from dust". its a debate but it is believed that dust is the left over magic, the people from that age or both. so that might be the way.

The impression I got was that their daughters died in the fight, and that the original maidens reminded him of them.

also wasnt only 1 question can be answered but here she gave a whole story for 1 question

One of my favorite parts of watching reaction videos for RWBY is found in this video. Seasons 1-5: "That's cool and all, but what happened to the moon?!?!" Episode 6-3: "HOLY HELL, SO THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED TO THE MOON!!!" As for the creation of humanity, I've seen a lot of theories, but let me put this one out there: The Pools Of Annihilation is still putting out Grimm to this day...what is the Pools of Creation doing? The war happened AT the pools, and we saw meteors crashing into the land RIGHT THERE. What If the pools got spread all over the place, diluted and over time, causes humanity to be reborn. Secondly to that same concept: there were no faunus BEFORE the gods left. A), if the Pools of Creation were the cause of humanity, they likely caused the faunus as well (mutation of animals into sentient beings?) and B) what is the god's reaction going to be to an entirely new species showing up after they left.

In regards to what happened to the kids, they died in the battle between Oz and Salem. The maidens are not actually reincarnations of them. Oz gave a portion of his power to create the maidens, because the original 4 maidens reminded him of his children.

If you take note in the wording of Salem's punishment, her curse is only in place until she learns the value of the balance of life and death. Once she learns that lesson, she will become mortal again.

This episode always makes me think back to what Oz said to Ruby back in volume 1. "I've made more mistakes than any man, woman or child" he was speaking literally. I really like that Bethany had the same thought as most of the Fandom, was that "you can't" collective or just Oz. Also it implied that their children sadly died in the fight between Oz and Salam, the tale of the lonely hermit explains how the Maidens came to be.

Woo! You finally made it to the big one! And yes, a lot of the previous chapters take on a very different look after this reveal, but not in a bad way. The set up was there, but this piece of the puzzle you just couldn't really guess. However, I think most peoiple agree at this point (writers may have confirmed, I don't remember off the top of my head) that the children were _not_ actually the first maidens, those came later, during one of Oz's periods of "trying to forget" (hence the part of that story where he is a hermit wizard who has nothing). We don't even know that it was four sisters that visitied him, he could have made any or all of the story up as an explanation for the origins of the maidens, and he certainly doesn't seem to have known how the powers would be passed on, since as Qrow and Glenda mentioned back in V3 they had to figure some of those out on their own. If Oz knew, he could have just told them. Certainly they knew he was functionally immortal, because you'll recall Qrow never said he was dead, just missing, and wasn't surprised to see him when Oscar showed up. Great reaction, looking forwards to your next one!

Ah yes the canon self explained LORE video, more detailed than a Film Theory episode! For real this episode was such a mic drop when it first came out I love seeing peoples reactions to it. 😂 The most beautiful and terrifying thing about the Maiden’s though has to be that later Maiden’s like Amber, Cinder, Raven, and even Pyrrha to some extent as well as the others you’ll see later are like Salem and Oz’s adopted Daughters…..let that one sink in.

The maidens aren't Oz and Salem's children, as cool as that may be. The story of the seasons explain that the powers were gifted to four women by a hermit wizard, and Oz does confess that yes, he did give these women some of his power(similar to Qrow and Raven). After the fight with Salem calms down, a shot of a stuffed animal, one that was earlier seen carried by their children, is on the ground in the rubble. The children didn't survive the fight, sadly. As for Oz's question about destroying Salem, well, that's a very astute observation by Beth. There are hypotheses about how Salem will go down - some think the statue of Salem in this chapter is foreshadowing Ruby turning Salem to stone, like how the wyvern was in Vol 3. Another is a future character with an interesting semblance(though personally I hope this semblance is used on Cinder). Yet another is that Salem will be persuaded to have a change of heart. One final random tangent: Jaune may be related to Salem and/or Oz. Juane Arc's arc symbol on his shield can be seen in Salem's home castle(upside down in this episode, BUT rightside up in RWBY Fairy Tales) and on the bottom of Salem's dress. Also, it would explain why Tyrian is interested in Jaune... just a thought.

That face when your God admits you're a bad game of the sims

I think the only way to defeat Salem is to convince her how important death is. The gods told her she'd walk to world until she understood the importance of like and death.

Crazy theory, what if the tree in the relic of knowledge vault is the same one here in this episode and the reason Cinder survived is because she was secretly made immortal. It most likely isn't the case but it would be kinda cool.

"that looks like the tree in the vault" Yes, yes it does. And that tree had water underneath it.... that Cinder fell into. Is it the same pool of water? If it is the same pool of water, does it still hold the same power as the Gods have left the planet? Stay tuned....

The fact that after centuries or however long it had been of humanity being in discourse, it seems clear that he has been burned many times when he openly offers info. I cant imagine people following a this person to stop someone unstoppable and on top of that he loves her, like how trustworthy could a man like that be

the maidens dont reincarnate like Oz does though. only their powers go to the woman who is in their last thoughts (unless the woman is too old, I guess Salem would count as too old. in which case the powers go to someone random). personalities dont seem to be attached. This is no spoiler btw.

The thing he wanted to keep a lid on was Salems immortality. If you havd a super powerful enemy who CANT be defeated, all you can do is hold them back while you bleed and eventually die. Most people would either just give up and try to run OR kill themselves at that point. Thats when fear, paranoia and missteust become the most dangerous thing of all: becouse then, EVERYBODY has thier finger on yhe trigger, and its only a matter of time till domepnes sweety palms SLIP!

This is when you say it. First you say "Raven," then you say "was," and then you say "right."

One question was used up from the past. I suspect Raven, Summer Rose, and Leo Lionheart may have accessed this first question and reacted in different ways. It's also important at some point to watch the RWBY Fairy Tales for some more background hints. The "gods" seem to be pursuing a program of experimentation with the subject humans, not just setting them up and then abandoning Remnant, but the results are not yet fully formed - discussing any more might reveal spoilers. Humanity, part 2, probably evolved on a super fast time scale due to the magic-imbued DNA from the animals, and the side effect would have been the faunus as a subspecies. I know, speculation speculation speculation***.

The god of light basically said: "You must learn for yourself why what you did was wrong. Take ALL the time you need."

I like to think that dust is just the pieces of the moon that fell to earth after it shattered, which is why they say it’s a limited substance, and will eventually run out. It makes sense since the dark brother is the one who gave the first humans magic (his quote “my own gift to them, used against me”), and he’s the one who touched the moon, which probably gave those pieces the magic power they possess.

So, for the maidens only the power transfers to the one the last maiden has thoughts on. No memories nor personality passes on.

the most popular theory about Ozma's 3rd question to Jinn is that it is both right and wrong. much like a wish to a Monkey's Paw, the words used matter. he asked, "how do I destroy Salem?" and she answered, "You can't." however, the question that should've been asked was "how can Salem be destroyed?" the theory is that she only answered that Ozma can't destroy her, not that she can't be destroyed at all.

Also, from what I've pieced together a very long time ago, Ozpin before his reincarnation to Ozcar: knowing the deal, he has also heard countless times "we've got your back" or any interation of that. When he said "Do you think Leo(Lionheart) was the first!?" He knows that any possible comrade can be fickle and run or betray him and work with Salem if he were to drop the whole story on them. While he has learned to fight and live with his hosts and their family, he still has a very cautious approach to letting people know or them being in his circle.

“How do I destroy Salem?” You can’t, she has immortality. “How do I SAVE Salem?” is the question that should be asked, and no one is asking. Salem being an immortal baddie is good because it’s the physical representation of “evil never dies”. But, although you can’t erase evil that exists, you can STOP it before it is created. And getting to the root of said evil is the true solution. Ruby blasting the Grimm away and Salem learning the importance of Life & Death will put her to rest, but the root of her evil is where you get to the solution. That said evil being the hypocrisy of the gods. They are too focused on stopping Salem, but she can’t be. You have to save her by addressing the root issue. (Same thing with Cinder. Cinder is not going to be redeemed, and why should she? But even if they defeat Cinder, what next? What if another Cinder pops out because nobody stopped the evil before it was created?)

As far as Oz’s questions, his wording matters. He asked how to DESTROY Salem, but neglected to ask how to BEAT her.

Unrelated thing: It's said earlier -the Maidens are /not/ the kids. Oz sacrificed most of his magic to create them later as forces of good in the world, likely in defiance of Salem. Hence her desire to take that little remaining magic for herself (and access the relics).

This episode changed all the rules of the series and it's great seeing you two talk about them :) Wondering and asking all the questions the FNDM had over this volume is great :D

A really old theory is that Jaune is a descendent of Salmen, so the children of Oz and Salmen may have escaped the battle without them knowing. I honestly think that the god of light is the unreasonable one out of everyone.

"What makes them worse gods than the Brothers, though?" "She wanted to wipe out humanity!" "THEY LITERALLY ALREADY DID!" Mind... Blown. I had never considered that angle.

And here...we...go! Man, you always wanted to know what happened to the moon, but wow, this was a heck of a lore drop! Edit: I think that Oz was worried about people finding out because it's really easy to read 'you cannot destroy Salem' as 'Salem is unbeatable', which both hurts morale and potentially drives desperate people to her banner.

I believe that this episode explains the overall plan for Salem. Gather the Relics together, summon the gods, erase the world, and finally die. She has been living for more time than can easily be explained.. All she truly wants is to die.

I have seen a number of reactors jumping to the conclusion that the children were the original Maidens, and while I can see where this comes from, I do not believe this to be the case and that they really were killed during the duel with no reincarnations later. The theory I have seen, and currently believe to be the closest to accurate, is based around the fairy-tale, 'The Four Maidens', which is backed up by Ozpin's account in the previous volume, about him granting a great deal of his own magical power to four young women (most likely during one his lives he spent 'attempting to forget at all'), perhaps because something about the original maidens reminded him of his own daughters and gave him hope to start trying to unite humanity again. I feel like this can be backed up by that fact that while Ozma fought Salem to a mutual standstill, Ozpin lost to/was killed by Cinder, someone who basically only had less than a quarter of his full power, and for all the revelations in this episode, I see no reason for Ozpin to have lied about having a dwindling amount of magic left

There is never any confirmation that their children were the original maidens. As far as we know, the kids all died in the battle with Ozma and Salem. They could be, but so far it has all been fan speculation.

The children died in the crossfire. Another reason for Oz's shame and Salem's hate. He created the maidens because the four sisters reminded him of his daughters.

One of my favorite episodes of the entire series, just because of the lore bomb.

For when Ozpin asked the question for "how do I destroy Salem" the problem is that he asked a genie a question so she took it literally so she said HE can't the proper question should have been "How can Salem be destroyed?"

I recommend going back to the Volume 2 soundtrack and listening to 'Sacrifice' again. It's a song from Raven to Ozpin, accusing him of throwing away the lives of those following him - things she alluded to in Volumes 4 and 5, and now make quite a bit more sense, like she knew about this stuff...

11:25 You can really see Bethany really starting to dislike Salem. 13:43 Yes. 24:53 This is very, very, very, important. Look closely at the children Oz fathered. Note every detail. 25:40 Jinn cannot lie. Djinn have to tell the truth, but if your question is not correct, they can only answer your question truthfully within the parameters of your question. You must be careful with your phrasing.

You can't even take her power away, the only way to deal with Salem is to redeem her... That's what the Light god implied when he cursed her.

The difference is the Gods had a balance, one has the power to give life the other to bring death, each expressed their powers accordingly. Salem only cared for herself, discarded other humans only to get what she wanted. The Gods didn't really "kill" everyone, they were ascended to the afterlife to restart the cycle, so they are at peace, but Salem remained so that in her loneliness she would understand that death has its purpose. Instead she said no, she is much like Adam, they both can't accepted the truth and the natural way of things. Ozma was the purest that ascended as a result they chose him fit to fix things, this time without the god's intervention. If humans can fix each other themselves then they are redeemable, if not then they are a mistake and this time they will be gone for good, no life will continue. When Ozma returned she forgot the purpose of her immortality and only cared to reunite, she saw humans as a second thought and the only way to change them is to beat it into them. With this mindset humans will never come to peace, to bring balance one must beg forgiveness when they make mistakes, and the other must understand and led them that forgiveness, you must lift the log from both ends otherwise the log will be too heavy. This will never happen so long as Salem's influence is present, thus humans are deemed to follow her example, lie, cheat, steal, KILL, until you have what yours. Nothing matters, but YOUR needs. The exact lifestyle Adam and many others are leading in the current day. As for the knowledge, knowing there are demi-gods among them will cause more chaos. The story will not only help Ozma but cause many to side with her, in the beginning no one ever stepped into the god of death's domain, everyone agreed no good came from there. Until Salem walked in, that is how it all began, she's now the demi-god of death in current day. You don't want people walking into her domain and making the same mistake.

"Beware of Gods granting gifts." -Sebille, Divinity Original Sin 2.

Salem and Ozpins children died in the fight. Rather than show children getting killed on screen they called attention to the youngest's toy and showed it after the fight charred and ripped on the ground, pretty much universal cinematic language for "Yup, that kid died". Many years later during a time of his cycle when he was living alone in pain 4 women came across him and helped him remember who he was so he granted them powers.

Notice the question Ozpin asked “ how do *I* destroy Salem” not how can Salem be destroyed or how can humanity beat Salem Ozpin only ever thought of how he could do it not whether or not it’s possible just how *he* can do it

Lmao the story reminds me of Ana and Hans. "You got married....to someone you JUST MET." Cause that's how sped up their love was☠️ Also, how could the Dark Brother destroy all of humanity, but not take Salem’s magic? That would’ve solved EVERYTHING.

I believe Oz hid all of this because Jinn told him “You can’t destroy Salem.” Salem is unkillable, unstoppable, and is going after the relics for humanity to be judged irredeemable so the world can finally be ended with her in it. Oz can only delay that by hiding the relics, until humanity one day comes together… somehow. In his countless lives, he’s been betrayed by people he’s trusted, like what happened with Ironwood, so it makes sense he’s learned to withhold information. Plus, what hope would people have of unity if he told everyone that Salem is trying to end the world and there’s nothing you can do to stop her?

Something I've been thinking about for a while is Jinn telling Oz that he can't kill Salem She can't be killed, but maybe she can be cleansed or petrified As far as we know, silver eyes are effective against grimm, so if they're used against Salem, maybe they can purge the grimm from her or they can petrify her like the grimm on top of Beacon tower

It still stirs me that Beacon Academy resembles Salem's Father's castle.....because to me it means.....damn....he still loves her.

Did you guys catch it? The world of "Remnant". This is a remnant of the true world.