I wanted the Smith & Wesson 10mm very badly. Found one in my local shop. I held it along with the XDM elite compact 10mm and liked the way that felt better. I was about to opt for the smith & Wesson but then remembered all of the problems of the S&W and chose the XDM elite compact 10mm. After carrying it IWB and shooting it, I can honestly say that this is my new baby amongst my other calibers. I do not regret my decision.
I too have a M&P 2.0 10mm fron ftf to stovepiping i did some reaearch & found out s&w puts weak mag springs in from the factory & w/stronger mag srings(wolff or srpinger precision) has them. So far have a 22lb guide rod in it. I agree w/you in your 10mm video these companies are making trash guns and overcharging us as consumers.
I bought one at the end of December and during my initial fieldstrip to clean before firing the sear disconnect lever fell out the bottom of the mag well, you could tell it was never secured in the gun. I sent it to S&W where they had it for a month with no contact and no explanation other than they enclosed a form that said they replaced the part. I got an email from Fedex that it was enroute back to my house. After i got it back all it did was jam with 10mm velocity ammo. It only functioned while running 40 sw velocity loads. Smith obviously has quality control and inspection issues they need to address. The sad part is I traded in my Glock model 40 for it as i thought it would be a more practical platform. I was wrong.
Word is traveling fast these malfunctions are going to make you a RU-vid star. You are the only one with this flaw so far. Many will be coming to see your new spring video!
Thank you! I won't name any names but I've seen a few videos where I think there has been editing... I can count to 15. There's an awful lot of magazines coming up short out there.😶
I just recently got my M&P 2.0 10mm. So far, I have shot about 125 rounds, and I have had 4 failure to feed issues. It all happened with flat nosed fmjs. I tried different rounds, and no problems. I hope that I don't have any more issues because I really like the gun
The most undersprung pistol in history lol. Extractor issues, magazine issues, rmr screw & plate issues. Mine has been an expensive journey. I'm 80% M&P. My platform of choice with all factors considered. But with the 10mm, I wish I'd bought a G40 or XDM. Or waited on the new FN510. After more than a year, 2 trips to SW, multiple shooters, environments, and ammo, I can confidently say that my 4" will get thru a magazine w/out failure.... Most of the time lol..
@@theturkeysopinion yeah no problem and the phrase is all yours bro!!! Just understand if I ever hear you say it on a video and I'm drinking anything it's probably going to come out my nose cause I'll be laughing so hard!!! I just hope it's not mountain dew!!! That will burn!!! Lol
I appreciate all the work you are putting into these videos. Looking forward to the future ones as well. I was going to buy this gun but now I'm holding off for a while.
You are very welcome! I'm glad I can help! I had no idea this was going to turn into a project. I really thought it was just going to eat a magazine of everything and we were going to be done. But in the meantime it's Mega interesting. At least to a gun dork like me. I originally wanted the 4.6" but could not find it. I'm super curious if that would have the same results. I'm probably going to end up having to snatch from the piggy bank to find out.
Thank you for the great vid on this. I’m running a Glock 20 with a 22lb spring. When I initially setup the gun, I was intending to only run hot loads (Underwood, Double Tap, Buffalo Bore etc). And my reloads are Acc #9 with a 180 JSP running around 1300FPS (I won’t post the charge data). It absolutely runs every hot load I’ve tried, but it chokes on light 10mm loads like Blazer. I’m assuming the S&W factory 17lb spring it for ideal for the light loads. 20-22 lbs may be better suited for those stout loads
I saw these videos a while ago from you and managed to pick up a 4 inch 10mm a month ago. I also ended up with failures running hot hard cast ammo. After looking at the recoil system I noticed it was very close to gen 3 Glock 19 guide rod. I bought a 20# g19 and g17 spring. Pulled the guide rod apart for the m@p and the g17 is basically an exact match unsprung. I installed that in my m&p and it definitely stiffened up the slide. Feels as tight as my TRP and EAA in 10 mm. Hopefully I'll get out and run it soon with the new spring. Possibly a good fix at only 9$.
Thanks for sharing all this work. This pistol is interesting for me if I could use it hunting feral hogs. I'd like to see it cycle hot hard cast loads reliably. It's awesome that you're taking the time to run a variety of ammo types through it. Often, we're only able to see a gun handle range ammo, and that's only good if it's a range toy. Great stuff.
Thank you for your comment! That is exactly why I am doing this. You know what they say, if you want it done right… lol. I love 10 mm and waited for this thing for a long time. It really kicked me pretty hard when it didn't run properly. I am absolutely determined to figure this thing out. I'm glad people like you appreciate this content! It is not for everybody. It's a little bit nerdy.🤓 Unless you love information and numbers
@@theturkeysopinion Rare to see this much testing and analysis on 10 mm loading, plus examing a gun's function. Thank you so much! I've had to settle on a FMJ flat nose for relieble usage, though stricly as a woodland hunting pistol. Finding the right powder has been a problem too, ala the burn rate. Hollow points always seem a little long at the nose affecting cycling problems; the springs in the magazines is troubling too. Keep up the great videos!
Thank You very much, your video's are excellent, your time is greatly appreciated. I purchased a M&P 10mm about a month ago. Its a 4.6 " with no slide safety. In the last 3 weeks have run approx 250 reloads through it with no problems ( I load P.P. 81/2 - 9.0 gr. with 180 gr. rn and hp, x-treme bullets. I also shoot 200 gr. cast bullets. I reloaded 200 gr. Berry Bullets, After the first 250 rounds I began having f.t.f problems with the Berry Bullets. One or two rounds per mag. ( with both mags ) Needed to force the slide home to fire. Same problem as you displayed in your videos. Closer observations revealed the live round had stopped in a horizontal position on the feed ramp, nose of the bullet did not point up towards the barrel chamber. ( maybe a feed ramp of mag.problem ) This problem continues for the next 50 rounds. Thinking it may need a good cleaning, I left the Range. I have put 4 -5 times that amount of rounds through my Glock 20 with no problems. I have been reloading for over 15 yrs. without this problem in other guns. I will take this gun back to the Range in a couple of days and see how it operates after being cleaned, and no Berry Bullets.
I’m with ya on the light spring. Seems like they didn’t tailor this gun towards hunting or high pressure loads. A real shame because this would win over the blocky g20 for woods carry and that’s the majority of the 10mm market these days. I think OAL might be an issue with the flat nose profile bullets as well. I wonder how they compare to your gold dot loads that ran so well. Would love to get this gun if it runs hot xtreme penetrators. I think yours were the defenders at 100g.
Great video and subscribed to your channel. I have the XDM 10mm with 4.5 inch barrel and did put a 22lb spring in it and it runs the hotter ammo great. I agree that manufactures should include multiple weight springs. I would rather have extra springs than extra grip panels lol.
Thank you! I can glad I can be of help to some people. I personally want 10 mm to be a big time firearm. I already own 40. 10 mm has so much potential. It is basically a semi auto 357 when done right. Kind of like: I did not buy my 44 magnum to shoot 44 special....thats just me.
@@theturkeysopinion You get it! I need my 10mm to be able to run 1250fps 180gr with absolutely no problems. Sig v-crown and federal HST'S are right there with those specs for my defense rounds. Let alone the underwood i want for the woods. Hoping your pistol gets sorted out and honestly hope this is not wide spread. I wish others would start reporting their feedback with hotter loads. What state you in? I almost want to send you some hst's and sig to test out for us. 😃
I carry a glock 29 gen 4.. I was thinking of going to the smith 10mm 4in because I am a Smith fan.. I own 2.0 9mm and love it.. this test of yours makes me have second thoughts I'm the short term.. will be watching for your test with the stiffer spring ..thanks for all the time and expense you put in.
It is my pleasure! This is turning out very interesting. I am interested in the glock 29 myself. I didn't get along well with the glock 20 though. So I'm holding out for now. However the glock 21 is a hell of a 45. That's a great shooter. Thank you for your comment!
@@willschaust7978 I just took my brand new 2.0 10mm compact to the range. Been shooting 10mm since 2012, ran it on duty as a police officer for 2 years and concealed the Glock 29sf and Gen 4. Underwood 165 in 29, 200gr in Glock 20 and 220gr in Glock 40. M&P was the most excited I've ever been for a new gun. So much so, I sold my Glocks and bought 2 of them... Already sold them and bought Glocks back. Recoil was atrocious. Slide got hot AF in just 50 rounds it burned my support hand. Glock 29 with Underwood is much much softer shooting and enjoyable
@@ccooke8935 I have a G29 for when I go hiking. Underwood 200gr hitek coated hard cast. Even these more punishing rounds are quite manageable. It’s one of my favorites.
I been looking at getting an M&P 10mm (4”) as soon as these got released. I have no doubts that it’ll handle my handloads with BlueDot or Longshot powders.
NEEDS SUPPORT CHAMBER STRONER SRING AND ALSO MAGS. NEEDS STRONER SPRINGS . XDM IOMM HAS THIS ALL AND WILL RUN HEAVY LOADS OF ALL AMMO . BETTER FIREARM THEN THE M. P. BY FAR IN THIS CALLIBER HANDS DOWN HAVE THEM BOTH M. P IS GOING BACK TO DEALER FOR A ABOTHER FIREARM . LOSING. 250 DOLLARS.
Seen this, convinced me on the S&W M&P 40 M2.0 with the 4.25" Range kit. I've already put 600 thru. Had a 10mm, was a little expensive and ran a couple 40's through the Springfield. And to be honest, a little more than I wanted to penetrate with. The Springfield I ran with was a little snappy, but wanted to try a newer version of the S&W M&P line. Right before Xmas too. Whole kit and 3 mags, and a speed loader and a holster for the gun and the clips= $569. Damn smooth and good recoil absorption compared to that Springfield. Plus it stayed within 18 to 22 inches of get for us. The second would cavity is crazy large. Thurs is Police and Military range day here. We have 3 police forces locally that come on that day. Gave them a shoot around with the .40. They all loved this M2.0 version and fell in love with it. I've had 3 offers, but keeping her.
Thank you for all this testing, especially with your own loads. I recently got a 4.6" version, got a great deal on it, new in box. I knew even before ordering that it has certain issues, so I ordered a 24lb. Galloway RSA and stronger mag springs from Springer. I wanted a bear defense gun and considered a Glock, but was concerned about the grip size, so ended up ordering the M&P. I am still catching up on all the videos, etc. but have learned that yes, the gun is seriously undersprung, the stronger RSA is worth it - it tames the recoil and prevents the gun from beating up the hands and the frame. But another issue that others have discovered is poor magazine geometry (channeling ribs and feed lips, unlike the M&P40 and M&P45 mags) and it usually specifically causes issues with heavier bullets due to their fatter shape (wide meplat). I'll leave a couple of links below that have photos - not my work. In my testing I had mag drops and stoppages with Underwood 200gr and 220gr hardcast. No issues with range ammo or Underwood 140gr Xtreme Penetrators. I'll probably just stick with Xtreme Penetrators, but I also tested "hybrid loadings", where I'd load first 10 rounds of Xtreme Penetrators, topped off with 5 hardcasts (and 1 in the pipe), to keep them from interacting with the mag catch window. Worked 100% for me. In summary: I think that some of the hot load issues are solved by a more adequate RSA (24lb. is perfect for me, and it still cycles the range ammo), while the mag drop (and potentially other stoppages) are caused by poor mag geometry and fat heavy bullets. Not acceptable, but for me it's a keeper, since I found that Xtreme Penetrators work 100% and they should do the job. For those considering an optic I definitely recommend getting a C&H metal plate and not using the included plastic plates - there are reports of the optic flying off under recoil. I have about 200 rounds, including Underwood, with the C&H plate and Swampfox Liberty and it's holding up well and holding zero.
I've had my S&W M&P 10mm M2.0 4.6" pistol since mid-May 2022. To date, I've fired only 10mm Auto ammo through it, a grand total of 1,821 rounds, mostly various brands of 180 Gr FMJ range ammo, but also 600+ rounds of Buffalo Bore and Underwood hunting and self-defense ammo, ranging from 140 Gr Xtreme Penetrator through 220 Gr FN HCL. In short, I've experienced only one malfunction of any kind, a FTF running Underwood 200 Gr FN HCL, with the pistol in it's factory stock condition. I replaced the weak factory 17# RSA, and weak factory magazine springs in late May 2022 with a solid stainless steel guide rod and uncatured 24# recoil spring from Wolff Gunsprings, and a pair of longer stronger 11-coil magazine springs from Springer Precision. I also use an alloy adapter plate and stainless steel screws from C+H Precision, rather than the cheap crap that came in the box from S&W. Since investing in these needed upgrades in late May 2022, I've run 1,605 rounds of 10mm Auto ammo through this pistol, enjoying 100% flawless reliability. I've never had any magazine drop issues, despite running 220 rounds of 200~220 Gr FN HCL ammo through it, from Buffalo Bore (220 Gr x 20 rounds), Steinel Ammo (220 Gr x 20 rounds), and Underwood (200 Gr x 80 rounds, 220 Gr x 100 rounds). I always clean and properly lubricate my guns before and after using them - Basic Gun Ownership 101. Thanks to a lot of favorable mentions regarding the Galloway Precision fully captured 24# RSA, I acquired one myself. I found it performs virtually identically to my Wolff Gunsprings setup, but with the added convenience of being a fully captured assembly... so I'm now running with it. She's got great ergonomics, and she's very easy to shoot well... definitely a keeper in my book. Good things! 👍
@@jpg_sig10 thank you for all those data points! 100% on cleaning and lubrication, especially the latter. At this point I can either go through the expense of testing more 200/220gr hard casts or just stick with the Xtreme Penetrators that do perform for me. I feel like it'll be cheaper for me to just carry the more expensive XP's, a paradox :)
@languagesource355 I do like the UA 140 Gr Xtreme Penetrator load, but they are very expensive. Also, from all the testing I've seen, the Xtreme Penetrator is a lot more likely to be deflected by bone... it doesn't penetrate as straight or as deep as the heavier FN HCL loads. I am curious about the S&W M&P 10mm Auto M2.0 magazine design. The very short feed lips, the steep feed angle (compared to their 9mm Luger and 40 S&W magazine designs), the lack of channeling all the way down the magazine like the 9mm Luger and 40 S&W magazines have. Even their 45 ACP magazines have channeling that runs farther down the magazine than their 10mm Auto mags do, to direct cartridges inward away from the magazine lock ports. Still, I've now fired 360 rounds of 200 Gr and heavier 10mm Auto ammo through my M&P 10mm 4.6" pistol with never an uncommanded / unwanted magazine drop issue. - 100 x UA 200 Gr Hornady XTP JHP - 100 x UA 200 Gr FN HCL - 120 x UA 220 Gr FN HCL - 20 x BB 220 Gr FN HCL - 20 x SA 220 Gr FN HCL I've done this while firing 2-handed, strong-hand only, weak-hand only, during both slow-fire and rapid-fire, all free-standing. I don't know what else to say, other than I'm sorry you're having difficulty. I've found my pistol to be very reliable. She's now up to 2,100 out of 2,101 10mm Auto rounds fired with no malfunctions of any kind, 99.952% reliable. I've found her to be very accurate, easy to shoot well, and overall a great purchase. Good things! 👍
@@jpg_sig10I'm glad yours is working for you. It's a likable gun, handsome and ergonomic. I am thinking the tolerances on yours stacked in your favor. Not so much for me, but I know some have had it even worse. I'd share a couple of links with you, writeups by others, but you have a pretty full understanding of the magazine issues and springs. Appreciate the info on XP's sliding off bone, I've never seen that in any videos (my only source of "data"), but I can see how that could be the case. I would only ever encounter a black bear, and even that - extremely unlikely. But I think I'll test the HCL from Underwood again, when I can snag them on sale. I'd much prefer the cheaper rounds, especially considering they are likely more effective.
Please let us know your findings with the new spring! I bought one of these to carry in the woods for bear protection, so naturally I’m planning to carry heavy bullets loaded hot. I have Underwood 200 & 220gr hard cast loads that I’m planning to carry. I don’t plan on running ANY light 10mm loads, even at the range. I don’t see the point of 10mm if it’s loaded light… get a .40! If the spring works for you, I’ll be buying one as well. Subscribed.
Thank you for subscribing and for your comment! I will definitely keep updating. I'm with you. Train like you fight. I don't like running light loads when I go to training classes with my 10 mm, it defeats the purpose. Vehicle CQB class with my Delta elite is completely different than when I take any other pistol. I do load lighter sometimes at the bench just because but for the most part, 10 mm should be 10 mm. Did you also get the 4"?
I am getting a M&P 2.0 4.6 inch 10mm for my new job as a security guard. I am getting one of these because of reviews and will use 40 S&W when in a pinch. Polishing the feed ramp might be something I try.
75% this will be my next pistol. Possibly next weekend at a gun show. I have trouble shooting with both eyes open . I'm 72 been hunting since I was 12 with shotguns and rifles with 1 eye closed
Great video. It's not often you see somebody just run everything except a Mack truck through a barrel of a 10 mm. I will keep watching. Very interested in buying a firearm. Will wait for further reviews from you.
My thoughts take me to a stronger mag spring to get the next round up quicker in to position for the slide to camber when using higher pressure loads, which I believe causes faster slide operation. A heaver recoil spring would cause a faster return of the slide, stripping off the next round before that round is ready. This causes bullet to angle upward, striking the hood of the barrel. I'm no expert, just a novice with an opinion.
@theturkeysopinion This isn't straightforward and as easy to figure out as I thought. I have heard that a stronger recoil spring has helped, at least some people. I could see if the original spring was too weak to stripe off the next round. A stronger spring would help. A strong recoil spring might also keep the slide from slamming rearward, reducing felt recoil and reducing stress on the gun. But if the bullet gets lodged against the upper hood, I still believe the mag spring is too weak or the follower is binding, keeping the bullet from reaching the proper placement before the slide can stripe it off the mag.
Did you try wolff springs made for he m&p 45? They are built on the same frame and have them up to 24 lbs. They work perfect in the 10 mm. I got a wolf 20 lb for my m&p 10mm 5 inch to tame the hotter loads. Works great. You have to buy their guiderod too but small price to pay.
I contacted S&W this past Monday to inform them about the failure-to-feed problem that was being experienced by myself and others. I agreed to send my pistol back to them, so that they can do some testing themselves. The pistol arrived at S&W this afternoon, so I don't know how long it will take for them to get back with me. My 20 and 22 lb recoil springs and guide rod from Wolff Gunsprings was supposed to arrive today, but I guess the U.S. Mail will no longer deliver when it is snowing. I am hoping that S&W can recognize and replicate the problem and come up with a solution for all M&P 2.0 10mm owners.
It will be interesting to see what they have to say. I wonder if they even have the ability to test hotter-ish ammo. I mean if they just run range ammo that they know works it's probably gonna be fine. I have a hard time believing that they test pistols trying to make them fail. That would mean that they would have to do some work after that. But if they just run a couple of mags and everything goes OK they get to put it back into the shipping department and they get to go eat lunch. I sincerely hope everything works out with your pistol. I gave up and got rid of mine. I'm gonna keep the XDM with me for a while, see how it EDCs . I will let Smith get sorted out and then revisit in the 4.6" model when they get their engineers trained up lol Keep us posted on the guide rod situation! I'd like to know how those come out.
I have the 4.6” model. Installed the wolff 45acp guide rod and 22lb spring and it ran hornady custom xtp well and 5 rounds of 200gr underwood with no problems. Also ran 50 rounds of 180gr fiocchi range ammo. Ejection seemed to calm down a bit. Any update on this?
Shot mine for first time today. 1 mag of Sig v-crown, no issues. 4 mags of Sig FMJ, 1 ftf (fixed w mag tap), 5 rounds of Underwood 220g, 2 ftf (fixed w mag taps)
Love your content and keeping it real. You have a new subscriber. I reload 10mm and love accurate 9,7,and 5 in the 10mm. Also love power pistol. I will say when I cronographed my reloads, they were much faster then the published data. That was with the xdm 4.5 model. Now I'm testing a Rock Island 6" double stack in 10mm, using AA#9 200gr xtp traveling 1330fps. The weird thing is I'm not exceeding published max loads. Anyway, love your channel.....
Thank you for the comment!! Accurate is pretty pricey at my LGS but i had to try it. So many people swear by it. I like it but it sure does go through the powder hopper quick. And I have been looking at that RIA double stack for years now. There is one at the shop now. 🤔
@@theturkeysopinion ya I agree, a pound of AA#9 goes pretty fast. That's the only bad thing. As far as the Rock Island double stack, it's so nice to shoot. It literally tames the beast. With medium loads, it has less recoil then a 9mm. Even with full power loads it's pleasant to shoot. I guess weighing 3lbs is the reason. Being so heavy, I use a chest holster. But very nice gun. You wouldn't be sorry getting one. It runs everything I feed it.....
That is an awesome report! I've really been wondering about that thing. You are right it feels pretty darn heavy! But that is a whole big can of whoop arsh!!
@@theturkeysopinion Yes it is. I shot it some yesterday at 50 yards and on a rest. With my reloads 200gr xtps @ 1259fps, I got a 1" group. SUPER 😊 with that. But in order to group like that, I knocked out the rear sight and installed a optic plate with trigicon sro on top. I had to turn the brightness all the way down, and it is deadly. Anyway, glad those hornady's shot well in your m&p. Take care and Lookin forward to more of your content.
I want the Smithy 10mm ... but Brother, you just went-through several hundred bucks worth of ammo at today's prices. I hope this video pays-off for you. You did us a service uploading it ... you've sold me on the pistol platform and the caliber. I honestly had no idea, although it makes sense, that you can run 40 short & weak through a 10mm. I wonder if Smith & Wesson might make a SIG .357 barrel for that pistol ... eventually. Looking forward to your chrony testing video.
Hopefully get the upload that video tomorrow. Thank you for your comment! Thank goodness I load my own pills for the most part. I have a habit of collecting defensive ammunition😶 It was a little painful picking up the empty casings though and counting the dollars. 😢 I'm just glad to give good info!
Appreciate the videos man. Great work. Im very interested in how everything plays out. I was very excited when s&w announced the 10mm so im itching to get one. Hopefully a heavier recoil spring solves ur issue. Have you polished the feed ramp? I do that with every new gun just incase there is a tiny bur or something. I would definitely do that cuz it doesn’t hurt and can only help. I think a 17lb spring in a 10mm seems too light. Actually was surprised it ate the xtreme defenders with no problem cuz of the bullet profile. I love the xtreme defenders and carry them in a couple calibers and also reload them. Keep up the good work and you got a new subscriber in me. Thanks
Thank you! Much appreciated! I was really surprised about the extreme defenders also! It's going to be interesting to see what the Spring does. Just got it today. Update coming soon!
Dude, great video thanks for taking the effort. Really enjoyed watching. I also shoot and EDC carry an M&P 10mm 4'' and it's my favorite. Leaps and bounds over my Glock 29s. I guess I just favor the look feel and performance SW provides. One question, wtf state you are filming this in as I see a what appears to be a house fairly close next door and I see and hear cars. I'd no doubt have the locals at my door in 5 minutes, maybe sooner in swat gear (NJ) also... where is this magical OZ you call home??? I hope you provide Christmas gifts to those tolerant folks around you. Best of luck. Happiness is a warm gun.... lol
Even better than part 1. I’m a Power Pistol/Blue Dot fan using Extreme for range and Speer/Hornady/Lehigh for self defense loads. I’ve tried #9 and Tite Group but prefer the other two for snap and velocity. Again, I’m running 1911’s so the recoil is less and velocity kick isn’t as big of a concern. Although on my Tanfoglio I did put a significant spring upgrade to stop the slam. I’ll probably up the M&P spring just to be safe. Keep up the good work.
Thank you for tour comment!! It seems i can run ANYTHING in my delta elite. It has the double spring that is like a catch line on an aircraft carrier , it buffers only as much as it needs to but can handle the top. Plus a wilson shok buff and no worried about beating it up.
I've seen a lot of people say by putting in a new recoil spring assembly with 22 or 24lb springs corrects it's issues. Seems disappointing to me that S&W basically has this gun tuned for light load stuff only.
Mornin pard, hope ya have good luck with the load I shared with ya. Series is coming right along, looking good! The light bullets I fired in my video were in fact Factory Cor-bon 135s. And it ate em' like candy! lol I re-tested the 155 XTP load and no hiccups through 5 magazines. I have some 180 grn. projos, but none loaded for testing yet. The have the "gold dot style" profile to the bullet, which is proving itself to be the profile my unit likes. Like you, I did experience 2 failures to return to full battery using S&B "range ammo". That ammo has the straight truncated cone style profile and I'm thinking that must be the issue on feeding/return to battery circumstances. Keep up the good work!! (And yes, I saw that!! )
Glad you caught that too ;) This one definitely likes gold dots. I'm glad we have something we can work with pretty solidly at this point. I think I will have some time to do some loading tomorrow. Definitely gonna work on that load. I might get my hands on factory loaded core bon 180 grains going about 1350. Those should be interesting. Thank you for the comment!
With the 10mm you have to understand that bullet jacket thickness, recoil spring tension, and powder burn rate makes a difference on reliability. I shoot two 1911 5" 10mm pistols and get two different velocities with a difference of 50fps between the two. You must have a chronograph to know for sure what kinda pressure you are getting. Don't blow your gun up. What is safe in one gun may not be safe in the other. I found with Speer 180gr bullets, 10.2gr of Blue Dot with CCI 300 primers, and Starline brass gives me 1225fps in my Ruger SR1911 and 1255fps average in my Kimber Custom. And is safe in both, but it took a leaning curve to figure that out. If I use Winchester WLP primers or CCI 350 mag primers, I get erratic pressure velocities and real flat over pressured primers. So you must be very careful. Also I have to run a 26 pound recoil spring in both guns or they won't function with these hotter loads. There is alot of info on the forums to help you. And by the way, welcome to the 10mm brotherhood.
Thank you for your very informative comment!🙂 I know I'm playing in dangerous territory with a couple of those loads. So far I haven't seen any bad pressure signs. But I'm not willing to go any higher. Truthfully I thought that I was taking more of a chance with the Smith and wesson than I was the Springfield for some reason. Which 1911s do you use? I absolutely love my Delta elite! 👍👊
I have a Kimber Custom two and a Ruger SR1911 both in 10mm. Glock's don't fit my hand, Springfield 's have the open top design I think is bad for getting junk packed around the barrel, and S&W mp just aren't built for +P loadings. So I'll stick with my 1911's in the 10mm. Saving up for a CZ 1911 in 10mm.
Thank you for your work. I think my comment was deleted because I included a link. I would recommend trying the dpm spring system for m&p which includes 3 different strength springs. Supposedly the strongest combination is over 20lbs.
Purchased one Friday even after watching your first video. Shot it today and it ate everything I had, range to defense BUT 165gr double tap, those were FTFs like yours. Ate 155-180 hot JHPs just not the double taps.
That is awesome! 4" or 4.6? I am wondering if they run differently. I just don't think they can handle the top top shelf stuff. Not without a Spring change. I was hoping somebody was going to run double tap. I was kind of Skeered😶. Critical duty ran very nicely today. Video posted.
I've been reviewing these videos and didn't see if/when you tried the increased recoil spring that was suggested that protruded by 1/10"?? Also, your magazine springs that came with the mags that came with the gun brand new. How long are they? I'm gathering data slso and trying to get some good baseline data. My 4.6" run 100% with 900fps up to nuclear loads without an issue. But curious about the length of your magazine springs that came wit the 4" gun the day you bought it? Thanks for any info you can supply. I'm willing to compare any notes I have also in return
I had to take that video down... I was extra cautious due to the rule changes. To be quite honest with you I don't remember much about that firearm. I did try the other Spring with a little bit of improvement. I think. There are much better Spring options on the market now. I don't even have the firearm anymore so I couldn't tell you the Spring length in the magazine. Sorry.👍👊🦃
Mid-way through the vid. Wanted to pause and comment, I don’t know what audio device you’re using, but the 10mm sounds like a damn thunderbolt when you’re shooting lol
If you're shooting reloads, then I suggest that you use a chronograph to check velocities. You might also want to check the maximum overall length if you keep having feeding issues. Good luck!
Oh yeah I chronograph. And everything goes through a Lyman case checker. I'm crazy about checking things. The process... Clean. Deprime and size. Re clean or at least clean primer pockets. Lynan case check. Prime. Inspect. Load. Lyman case check/measure C.O.L. Label. Store/shoot Thanks for watching! 🦃👊👍
@@theturkeysopinion I hear that! The XDM series has been great for me. Eats everything from range, reloads, defensive, and hot ammo without any modifications. I hope the 3.8 Elite 10mm upholds that standard! Every other Poly Gun always needed some kind of mod to make it all work (Glock barrels, some other brands needed better springs, etc.).
I don't know if it would make any difference, but I always polish and wax my feed ramp when I get a new pistol. I have had a lot of luck with that. I use my Dremel polishing compound first on a low RPM setting. Then, I use FLITZ metal polish, both with the Dremel and I finish by hand. Then, I use Renaissance wax. This almost totally removes the possibility of the feed ramp causing any failure to feed problems. I received my pistol a few days ago, but I have not had the chance to fire it. I am very interested to see if the change to a heavier recoil spring resolves the problem with the higher velocity rounds. I have heard recommendations of using a 20 or 22 pound spring. Where were you able to order a heavier recoil spring from? And, what weight did you order? Do you think replacing the magazine spring with an aftermarket spring like a Wolff spring would make a difference?
I've only polished ramps on my 1911s. It just shouldn't be necessary on these plastic guns. But you do have a great method explained! Thanks! I ordered a 20lb but had to really work it around so i don't know what it actually is anymore. It helped though!
It looks like you seriously need a heavier recoil spring!! Are you also using a supported chamber and checking your ammo in your barrel that’s out of your gun and are you running your 10 mm through a crimp die with a very light crimp to fix any issues when the bullet gets pressed in the brass? I’m pretty sure your misfires are because you do not have a heavier recoil spring and your slide is getting jacked back too hard! I also see your brass is slinging too far my plus P loads the Brass falls 3 feet away with a 22-24 pound spring!
I definitely think it needed a heavier recoil Spring. I think the magazine Springs are pretty weak too. As far as the handloads. A very light crimp. 10 mm brass seems pretty easy to work with but 10 mm nickel casings are a mother effer. Is they smush and buldge. I run every single bullet through a Lyman checker. The good one. I'm pretty obsessive about it. If I know I'm going to a match or class I will take the barrel out of the gun and double check in the barrel also just for redundancy purposes.👊👍🦃 👊👍🦃
What about an increased power magazine spring for the feed issues? Sometimes with the slide cycling faster because of the hotter ammo the round doesn’t get picked up because it’s not coming up fast enough from the mag. I don’t know if anyone makes them, just a thought. Thanks for the videos.
I noticed that you had 2 mags, did the issue always happen with the same mag? Without seeing the gun, it can either be the mag spring, the spring can be to light causing the bullets to bobble around under heavy recoil. Or Recoil spring needs to be heavier. Side, note. Bullet design, bullets with a larger ogive seem to function better in my experience.
@@theturkeysopinion I was looking at Wolf springs @ gunsprings and I see that they have mag springs for the m&p .45 that are 10% stronger. That spring might work with the 10mm. Bullets, that I like. After watching your follow up videos, I dont think its bullet design anymore. Its either mag design (feed lips are to short), mag spring, re coil spring.
Every polymer striker fired 10mm I have tried has given me trigger sting. My P220 and 1911 in 10mm are fine. How is this one? Maybe I just have a whimpey trigger finger.
I'm fairly new to firearms ( yes I'm one of them) but I am sure I am asking an ignorant (dumb) question . If you have a solid 9mm handgun, was a large enough demand made for a 10mm??? What's the difference ( I know .1mm) Or was the 10mm first and a demand for .1mm less requested?
No questions are dumb questions of course. The 9 mm has been around since about 1901. It is a very capable cartridge and is simply the most popular semiauto handgun cartridge in the world. It was standardized by NATO therefore used across the globe. The FBI requested the cartridge after a shootout that did not go so well for them. Look up Miami Dade shoot out. The 10 mm was developed. Soon after they backed off of that cartridge due to people not being able to handle it very well. They developed the smaller version which is now known as the 40 Smith and Wesson. That cartridge gained huge popularity with law enforcement. Nowadays though everything is reverting back to 9 mm. Bullet design has made 9 mm very capable. Capacity is tops. And affordability is another winner. The 10 mm is now just making a comeback. It has the power potential to be equivalent to low end 357 magnum. However the power factor is currently spread all over the map. Until manufacturers re standardize this cartridge they are not going to get it properly done in any firearm. When you tinker with a glock or now the Smith and wesson you will eventually get them to run the very hot stuff. When done properly a 9 mm is no match for a 10 mm. Not even in the same ballpark. But when done improperly, It's not much different than a 9 mm or a 40 cal. If you are new to this I would advise looking into footpounds of energy. You can find energy calculators online or just do the math yourself. Although the size of the wound/size of the bullet does matter, A lot of it comes down to foot pounds of energy delivered on target. The more the foot pounds the more devastating the impact. As long as the bullet stays in the target. If there is a pass through you will lose foot pound deposited on target. It all comes down to the bullet weight and the velocity it's traveling, then bullet design dictated how the energy is dispersed/used . Hope this helps!!
Im not a gun Smith or a weapons expert by any means but with over 25 years of shooting various types of calibers, and typically doing my own cleaning, disassembly, assembly, modifications, upgrades, on my firearms I know my way around most hand guns. Been shooting since 16. Again I'm not claiming to be an expert but ill try to answer your question best I can. Cause It can be hard to figure out what type of caliber to choose and which ones are made for what when you are starting out, and there is nothing worse than getting the wrong advise and being turned off to guns because you listened to someone and got a gun they want and not necessarily one you need. So the first question you need to ask your self is what are you getting this gun for. If it's home or self defense against (people/ bad guys) then a modern 9mm round is just as good as any other caliber. Ignore all the claims about stopping power and foot pounds of energy, and knock down power, all that is nonsense from people who want to act like they know something the rest of us don't. The most important thing is placement. A 120 mm cannon shot out of a tank is less deadly if it misses its target than a .22 caliber shot thats well placed. I'm over overexaggerating but the point is large powerfull caliber is useless if you can't hit your target. A 9mm Parabellum is a well proven round thats been around since 1901 designed by Austria and adopted by almost all European countries it was designed as a high velocity combat round. But it was designed against a "human threat. Now a 10mm was technically designed against a human threat too, after an FBI shoot out where 5 or 7 agents were all severely wounded and few got killed by two guys. The FBI decided to blame the 9mm round for failing to stop the guys despite the fact that both men received mortal wounds immediately in the gun fight but in the one min it took them to die they managed to kill 2 FBI agents and badly wound 5 more. Thats why placement is everything just because some one is shot does not mean they are incapable of still inflicting lethal wounds to you before succumbing to injuries. Anyway FBI designed a 10mm cartridge, however the recoil proved to be too much for some agents to get accurate hits. So they reduced the cartridge making it shorter and less powerful and .40 cal was born. 10mm and .40 cal are the same diameter bullet being shot out of different casings. Now most people buy 10mm because it approaches the power of calibers typically used for hunting animals (revolver calibers such as .357 mag or .44 mag) but is offered in a semiautomatic handgun, not a revolver thus giving them higher round capacity. If you are a hunter or buying a gun to possibly defend your self from a bear, hog, elk attack then a 10mm is definetly a superior caliber than a 9mm. Not that you can't kill those animals with a 9mm but it becomes more complicated because you have to make sure you choose the right type of ammunition. Where 10mm across the board will generally do the job. However, if you are getting a self defense gun against human threats, then a 10mm is probably not the best choice. Besides the huge recoil, blinding, flash, and much harder getting follow up shots on target I personally wouldn't recommend it for first time gun buyer as a home defense gun. Ultimately you should go to the range and shoot both calibers out of the same type of gun, and see the difference for your self. I know this was long but hope it helps.
My pleasure! I just had some very good results actually with Critical Duty. I'm pretty happy with the performance of that. I'm still going to keep tinkering.
No, not yet. Just going through tests and simultaneously breaking it in for now. If it needs broken in, who knows. It shouldn't. Trying to really see what we get " out of the box" I cleaned and oiled it prior to first shots. Ramp looked good to go.
@@theturkeysopinion Well it could have a burr or rough spot on the feed ramp ot chamber entry. I've had it happen on a glock a couple others, but never on an m&p. But anything can happen. I find that if I can't get a pistol to function 100% after I've polished it , meaning shining up the feed ramp and chamber lightly, by hand. I'll get rid of it. Never had to get rid of an m&p. Lol. I can think of only a couple pistols I've had to get rid of that wouldn't cycle reliably.
After tinkering and wasting money on extra power mag springs and recoil springs for multiple glock 20s I still have the occasional malfunction simular to yours with hot loads. It's a engineering problem the slides need more weight to slow the cycling. Mag springs and recoil springs are just band aids that can work if everything goes right. In a defensive pistol for bear or people you want something that's going to work all the time not just when things are perfect. Quit pushing it to its limit with the full power stuff and back off to about 600 ft pounds and I bet it runs perfectly like mine do.
Good advise and a hard reality your speaking with your Glock experience. I put a video up yesterday with hornady critical duty. It really likes that stuff, in its middle of the road fps. Thank you for the comment!
@@theturkeysopinion Your welcome! It ain't just pistols I've tried hot loads in revolvers and rifles had to beat empty cartridges out of cylinders and barrels. I found guns are just like everything in life it's good not to push anything to the edge or you have problems. 10mm is still a powerful semi auto round. Good reliable 9mm is 300-400 , 40 and 45 are both 400-500 10mm is 450 to 650 fpe for good reliable function under different conditions grips ect. You can push them all harder across the but it ain't worth betting your life on it if it ever came to it. The 10mm is a great cartridge only problem is some manufacturers and reloaders push it to the max and being recoil operated it's limited on the range of ammo it can shoot. It's not like some of the piston or gas operated shotguns and rifles with adjustments for different loads. Most pistol manufacturers make it right in the middle so it can shoot the widest variety of loads. Go to weak or to powerful and its asking for trouble. Just my opinion and even though I'm a glock fan myself the fanboys attack when i tell them my experiences with the 10mm isn't perfect with 800 ft pound nuclear loads. It ain't just glock you can look on RU-vid and find videos of xdm glock ect doing the same thing with full power loads but some people are in denial or haven't shot enough under different conditions to see it for themselves.
Hmmmmm this seems idk I keep tryna find all these videos of Glock 20s blowing up (which does happen) and nothing but let M&P get a 10mm and every misfire from a brand new gun….
This gun could have been a winner but all those malfunctions it had with hotter ammo just isn’t it. I wonder if S&W will listen to its consumers and fix the problems. Maybe then I’ll consider buying this firearm.
Those malfunctions are so strange, it’s normally what you’d see when ammunition is underpowered and the slide isn’t slamming home all the way. I wonder if it’s a combination of that bullet profile and the slide speed + magazine follower not keeping up.
I am thinking you are right. We have multiple issues for sure. I find it strange that it loves the extreme defenders. Complete opposite from the heavy stuff. Totally different profile. But it also loves gold dots. Wth?
With so many ballistics sites showing 40sw and 10mm from 4" and shorter barrels, I'm not sure why anyone would buy a 4" 10mm. Comparable loads in 40sw from a 4" barrel are most often within 30fps of 10mm. That's a lot of added flash, recoil, and expense for a 3% increase in velocity. 10mm doesn't really start to shine until over 4.5". And now that you can get 200gr hardcast in 40cal off the shelf, it's a pretty good woods carry option.
@@theturkeysopinion but seriously good video. Ive been thinking of making a good “assault pistol”. I was going to go glock40 mos with a 507c but im thinking this once they fix it will be a good option as well
There's a cult like following here on youtube. I, honestly, try not to let people get under my skin. Some of the criticisms are unnecessary, don't let them bug you too much.
This gun has to feed heavy bullets that's what we need it for in big bear country otherwise it is useless to many of us. S&W needs to get the spring or whatever right.
100% agree. People are buying this thing expecting it to run. Possibly save their life. They really need to work on this. Or at least let the world know it's not meant for hot rounds. Thank you for your comment!
I've done the taped glasses and a few other things. I personally don't worry about it. I just do it the way I do it. It's usually other people that get all uppity about it. Im an old dog...
