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S23E16 Firing Line w/ William F. Buckley, "A Bishop Rethinks Sexuality" Richard Neuhaus, John Spong,

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S23E16 Firing Line with William F. Buckley, "A Bishop Rethinks Sexuality" Guests: Richard John Neuhaus, John Shelby Spong, Michael Kinsley. Air Date: June 8, 1988.
Program details: Put on your flak helmets for this one: Bishop Spong, in calm, reasonable tones, argues for, oh, nothing more than
a complete remaking of Christian sexual morality ("The issue is that we live in the 20th century.... What we have done in our society is to separate puberty from marriage by ten to fifteen years with no corresponding ethic to tell young people how to deal with sexual energy ... Do you think they're going to refrain from sexual activity? I think they're not, and therefore I suggest that we find a way to enter into that world and provide a relationship that can be a committed relationship and have an aspect of holiness about it"). Pastor Neuhaus does not pretend to take a detached view ("Why do you want to take a Christian position when the argument of your book is that there is nothing normative about the Christian Scriptures or the Christian tradition?"). A high-voltage exchange, generating light as well as much heat.
Transferred and uploaded from my collection of old VHS tapes.
Program details ref: www.oac.cdlib.o...

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27 авг 2024

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Комментарии : 53

@rrickarr 3 месяца назад

I once played (organ) at an adult confirmation service which Bishop Spong presided over. He was one of the most down to earth, kind, loving, and uplifting clerics I have ever met, and I have played in churches for 25 years.

@johnnyd.5466 7 лет назад

Spong is so patient and respectful, while being attacked for being a thinking Christian. And he hasn't wavered. I have such admiration for him.

@metatron4890 7 лет назад

John Davies he is a clown.

@judsondunlap2923 6 лет назад

I also find Spong warmly engaging and easy to listen to, but at the same time, I believe his views are ultimately hurtful to those on the margins of society. He naively argues that embracing our society's narcissistic approach to life in the name of a Pauline "ethic of love" is the better way to worship God today. I completely disagree with this and fear this view has taken hold in much of our society and the church. But I pray that all can continue debating these good things in love and invite God in to help us see more clearly and compassionately.

@MrAquinas1 4 года назад

How much "thought" does he, or you for that matter, give to the masses of babies whose slaughter he aids and abets, in his cold-blooded support for abortion?

@ianp.7536 3 года назад

I would agree; though I don't always agree with him; he is a man of great intellect, compassion and care. He is also often categorized unfairly by Evangelicals.

@PrenticeBoy1688 3 года назад

Listen to what Spong says, not how he says it. It's empty spiritual nonsense. One cannot claim to be a Christian whilst rejecting the tenets of the historical Christian Faith. It's arrogance on a stunning level to disbelieve but rather than withdrawing from the religion, to try to set about reorienting the religion to suit one's own beliefs. In other media appearances, Spong says that he doesn't want to compete with those who hold orthodox theology, but rather wants to walk with them. He demonstrated his sincerity by actively subverting orthodox Christianity in his diocese and in the national church.

@grahamcombs4752 7 лет назад

Fr. Neuhaus's compassion, experience, and thoughtfulness never fail to hit their marks in his response to the bishop's numbness to the plague of promiscuity and infidelity.

@brildidge9523 Год назад

He keeps interrupting Bishop Spong and not giving him room to answer one question at a time.

@grahamcombs4752 Год назад

As a former Episcopalian and a convert to the Catholic Church, Bishop Spong is one reason why I left his church. His theology is not only radical, but incoherent, and essentially post-Christian. The Church of England throughout the English-speaking world is literally moribund. Only in Africa is it robust and that is because Anglicanism remains recognizably Christian there. As for the late Fr. Neuhaus, if you want to have a debate with him, you have to equal him in thought and energy. He played a significant role in my own conversion. @@brildidge9523

@edwardbaker1331 9 месяцев назад

@@brildidge9523 He has no answers. He never gave any thought to the damage done by moral nihilism.

@sketchbook1 10 месяцев назад

When seeing Bishop Spong's debates and sermons on this very topic from recently, before he passed-- MY thought was the same as pastor Neuhaus': NOBODY CALLS BISHOP SPONG on his ANTI-TRADITIONAL DOCTRINE BIGOTRY. Because that's what it is. It is prejudiced. He always mentions "science" and "modern thought" and so on, when he dismisses traditional evangelical beliefs. ESPECIALLY if those beliefs are sincere and fundamental. That is, once one still believes in traditional Christian morality or the scriptures, that person is labeled ignorant or backward.

@edwardbaker1331 9 месяцев назад

Not only that. The definition of atheism is the belief that truth changes. Man creates no truth at all. All truth is the reflection of the unchanging mind of God. We can articulate truth and do so creatively, but we create none of it. God is not an idiot who deprived the peoples of the past adaquate knowledge of how to order their lives together morally.

@HansLiu23 Год назад

They both make some interesting points.

@edwardbaker1331 9 месяцев назад

No, only Neuhaus did. Sprong is an idiot.

@edwardgarcia3718 3 года назад

Spong comes at faith as an open-door where anything goes as long as it's in the name of his twisted idea of "love". It's bizarre that he even thinks of himself as a Christian.

@PrenticeBoy1688 3 года назад

In his debate with Dr. James White, White asks Spong that if he (White) were to dress like an imam, claim to be a liberal muslim but deny that allah exists, deny that the koran was inspired, and deny that Muhammad was a prophet, could he be rightly called a muslim. Spong didn't answer.

@rypoelk997 Год назад

It would’ve been nice if they didn’t interrupt the wise man and let him speak

@jerryklooster438 2 года назад

Isn't it remarkable how history has shown Buckley and his cohorts to be wrong on so many topics: Vietnam, gay marriage, American military intervention into eastern Europe, civil rights, and the list goes on. And it's not just that he was wrong; it's that he was so proudly and confidently wrong. That's not to say he wasn't some kind of gatekeeper against the far right lunatics of his day, that's just not a justification for his own reprehensible positions.

@faith_alone Год назад

Gay marriage was wrong 6k years ago when God made the earth, was wrong in the 1980s, and is wrong now that the fake Christian bishop went on home to Hell where he belongs

@jerryklooster438 Год назад

@@faith_alone Faith is not a virtue.

@faith_alone Год назад

@@jerryklooster438 Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. Good luck Judgement Day. You'll find out just how dreadfully wrong you are.

@jerryklooster438 Год назад

@@faith_alone "the problem with the world is that fools have faith, and wise people always question themselves." Bertrand Russell

@faith_alone Год назад

@@jerryklooster438 God doesn't care what Bertrand Russel, or any other fragile sinner thinks or says. You could quote 10,000 like-minded God haters, they mean nothing. You will find that out one day.

@madshadows7083 6 лет назад

Buckley and Neuhaus exhibit their typical condescending, snobby, North Atlantic judgmental attitudes whereas Bishop Spong speaks with his gentle spirit of peace and acceptance. I'm embarrassed for Buckley and Neuhaus. As usual, conservatism has proved to be on the wrong side of history.

@MrAquinas1 4 года назад

Truth and decency is always on the wrong side of history, but it's on the right side of goodness. If you would take a timeout from your snotty, condescending secular judgmental attitudes that demands moral nihilism for all, you too might cease making such shallow embarrassing comments.

@PrenticeBoy1688 3 года назад

John Shelby Spong has the arrogance to reject the historic definition of Christianity and calls those who hold to Christian orthodoxy a bunch of names. He lumps us in with klansmen, misogynists and Nazis. He's a true blue-blood elitist who thinks he's far nobler and cleverer than we poor, ignorant spiritual peasants.

@vincent.mazkett187 9 месяцев назад

They still talk like in the 1950s But I love the JSS thoughts

@WintersWar 4 года назад

I see Spong was divorced the year this was aired. no wonder he's bitter towards marriage.

@Abr022575 4 года назад

He's bitter toward marriage?

@MrAquinas1 4 года назад

@@Abr022575 Obviously. He's bitter towards fidelity.

@eds5047 2 года назад

The d. In wiki with respect to his first wife means deceased, not divorced. Bishop Spong was never divorced.

@rypoelk997 Год назад

Newt Gingrich has him beat by three today.

@barelyprotestant5365 5 лет назад

This debate is awesome. Dear Lord, Spong is embarrassing.

@PrenticeBoy1688 3 года назад

Have you seen his 'debate' with Dr. James White? Spong is completely blind to his own arrogance.

@brildidge9523 Год назад

@@PrenticeBoy1688 Well, surely he is no more blind than the person next to him who won't allow him to answer a question without interrupting.

@PrenticeBoy1688 Год назад

@@brildidge9523 Are you referring to the host whose show this was?

@brildidge9523 Год назад

@@PrenticeBoy1688 No. I refer to the priest.

@PrenticeBoy1688 Год назад

@@brildidge9523 Is that arrogance on the part of the Lutheran minister? Maybe. However, Spong thought that traditional Christianity was nonsense, that it needed to change, and that he was the man to save the Christian Faith from itself. He disingenuously claimed to subscribe to all the creeds of the Church, when, in fact, he subscribed to his own reinterpretations of the creeds. Furthermore, he maligned those who actually held to traditional Christian doctrine, accusing them of homophobia and hatred. I'd say that somebody who lost, or perhaps never had, faith in the Christian religion but rather than leaving it, sought to redefine it to his taste, is pretty darn arrogant. Imagine taking a cheque for being a Christian clergyman when you believe none of the tenets of that religion. Dressing up as a representative of a Faith you despise...

@ryansumpter6993 2 года назад

I pray for Spong. He's dead now I believe. How he could continue to call himself a Christian up to his death, I know not. Of course he could have possibly repented and accepted The Truth who is Jesus Christ!! His arguments got more and more strange as time went on. Nehaus never wavered in faith, soon after this recording he was reconciled with The Church of Rome and was ordained a priest. The last time I remember watching a video of Spong preaching he denied the Resurrection of Our Lord!! So sad. May their souls and the souls of the faithful departed rest in peace. Amen.

@brildidge9523 Год назад

Well, at least you know that you are on the right bus.