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DLG Endy the thing is tho like it’s not like they don’t know they’re using some broken character that allows them to use way less skill than other players so is kinda hard not to resent the people who take the easy, scummy way out
Yeah she is toxic and stupid and is killing the game. I'm not denying that. She needs a big nerf. Same with Cloud. What I'm saying is that the top players still don't SDI properly against her, and that the good Bayos are good players. That's it.
Y'all are missing the point. Whether she needs to be nerfed, whether players should "learn the matchup", this is about ruining a channels ratings for something they didn't cause. It's the opposite of helping.
honestly I knew nair was stupid before, but spamming it literally controls the neutral lol how does a continuous disjointed hitbox that deals passive projectile damage in bullet arts have close to ZERO lag??? character is dumb
I hate using Nair though. It only lands on one side of her at a time (doesn't even cover inside of her body). So when every coming down with Nair, there is a 50% chance it has more range than Marth's sword and a 50% chance it won't hit you even on top of bayos body.
BA Nair is really good, but it's not disjointed, the damage on the bullets is weak, and it's not safe on shield (it can be just barely if you fade back, but if someone gets in that's moot)
Salem didn’t just close the program, he hit Ctrl + Alt + Delete on everyone the instant he got sent to losers. Nairo in the final set prevented it from being a total massacre. Whatever you think about Bayo, you can’t deny that he showed up big.
cry about the characters all you want, you cant deny that both of them played extremely well, dont bash on them cause you think they play easy characters
After breath of the wild came out T got 3rd at civil war. After Odyssey was announced Ally got 2nd at Genesis 4. After FE switch got announced Leo won G4. Sonic forces comes out and KEN gets 2nd at Leo saga. Metroid Prime 4 gets announced and Nairo wins smash con The script is real
If this get's released on Switch they need to focus less on nerfing viable characters and focus more on making the rest of the cast viable. By all means, nerf Bayo's broken shit but buff Ganon and Puff. Because of all the hate Bayo gets (both justified and not), I feel Nintendo is gonna do a number on Bayo and feel their job is done. Also, can we please stop hating on Salem? Hate the game, not the player. If you must go after a Bayo player go after Zack (kappa).
ZombiePlus Bayo definetly needs a nerf...hell a whole rework cuz her playstyle with free and easy combos that can lead in to a kill, a unique and OP mechanic that no other character has (bat within) and the most OP counter in gaming history just doesnt feels right in smash, she is not a fair character.
Ehhhh... Bayo is fine, she's already been nerfed what difference would it make to do it again if she can still cambo you zero to death. I'm not a main of bayo and I don't even like the match up but honestly you just gotta get good 😅 I'm including myself when I say that.
lol... if you think diddy is better than bayo. Diddy needs some tweeks not a nerf. Bayo is the only character who can 0 to death almost the entire cast for free in more than one way. I don't even enjoy Bayo matches cause she's just a dumb character. ZSS is fine, there is a difference between a strong character (ZSS), OP character (Diddy) and a broken character (Bayo)
All those dislikes 😵 just because Salem won the game 5, last-hit situation..?? Still a good second set. God. ZeRo winning Frostbite didn't make the close-ass second set with Tsu any less hype. Take off the Bayo salt goggles people
To quote what Nairo mouthed and what everyone in the room is thinking, "What do you do?" The answer is unplug your controller, find a Gamecube with Melee, and play Soul Caliber 2. Link only.
People try to say ZSS is broken too from grabs. Well if you miss those grabs you get punished HARD. Witch twist, time, bat within, nair...you can’t compare.
LMAO. The people complaining hella remind me of the ones in the Melee community who complain about Puff. "Dumb janky kills! This character takes no skill! Such a boring character to watch, ruins the game!" Funny af.
***** i agree with you there. While I dont find the Bayo hate to be understandable, its absurd that people are blaming Bayo instead of giving Salem the rightful credit he deserves. Also, I see you got yourself a good jojo reference as well.
So let me get this straight. When Nairo kills off the top with ZSS.. the shit is mad hype, but when Salem does it with Bayo.. the shit is mad broken? Do you idiots realize both characters can do the same shit to each other. And don't give me that "but ZSS needs a platform" (Mr. R died at 18% on Dreamland) or try to justify it by saying her grab is slow. Just because her grab is slower that doesn't make boost kick any less jank. People are quick to shout "Salem is carried" but no one doesn't say jackshit when Nairo gets out played by Void or Mr. R then gets a boost kick to victory. And then there are those who say Bayo is "super safe and super easy to use" If this is the case, why aren't there more Bayo's in tournament, why hasn't Aba's results drastically improve if she "carries" players. The people who make that claim are nothing but incompetent bags of hot air. Salem is the only one I see that's really pushing this character. The whole "carried by" is so stupid because the same can be said about other top players. ZeRo to Diddy, Nairo to ZSS, Void & Mr. R to Sheik, Larry to Fox, Elegant to Luigi, Esam to Pikachu, Tweek to Cloud, and so on. Mass disliking a video because things didn't go y'all way is petty af. The hypocrisy is strong. Ignorant Naifus (not all). PS: I like both players. Also, I main Pac-Mac. I had to say this part because some clown always assume I main Bayo when reading my comments.
Soul Xavi I would agree if every normal person could pull that off, and I don't even think you can do it. If so congrats to you and I'm a bit jelly if so
It's obvious Salem isn't carried, but you can't really compare ZSS who lives and dies by the same sword, to bayo who can do everything ZSS does without any big openings. People don't hate her for her zero to death combos, they hate her for that plus everything else she can do. The reason an early ZSS kill is hyped is because everyone who plays the game is well aware of what can happen if you mess one of her combos up. Nairo missed a boost kick and ended up getting killed off the top as a result. That's what makes a risk reward character more fun to watch than a character blessed with rewards at very little to no risk.
Stay salty my friends. If bayonetta frustrates you too much; don’t watch her battles. If Salem bothers you; don’t watch him play. Salem is a really good player who happens to use a really good character. don’t be bitter ^_^
>Bayo is not broken >Most major had a top 8 Bayo or even a Major win. >Diddy is broken >Only see Zero getting Major wins with diddy >Zss is broken >Only see Nairo and Marss getting top 8 but still inconsistent result. Even Nairo is going bowser often >Bayo is not broken >Jk putting ZERO in last stock (think about PGR ranking difference); Salem winning Majors if he doesn't run into his demons unless last hit; Aba duel maining, Tweek pocket Bayo; Bayo's kill percent is literally 0 with no SDI or with correct Di prediction; "no need to approach when you have nair" which basically removes her only 1/3 of her weaknesses; Witchtime kills at 0% if punished correctly EVEN IF YOU JAB, AND EVEN WITH A NERF, SHE IS STILL ARGUABLY #1 IN THE TIER LIST. >"B A Y O I S N ' T B R O K E N L E A R N T H E M A T C H U P" >"Don't over commit, don't get hit with bullet arts, don't go offstage, hit me with projectiles offstage, and hit me once with a hard punish so I die at 0%." >:thinking: .... So Jigglypuff is op, her fair rest combo is stupid :^)
Bayo is the best character in the game, but I'll respectively disagree with the fact that she's broken. You still need to work hard to win a tournament with bayo, and so far Salem is the only Bayo player who is able to pull that off.
"wow bayo and ZSS are both bullshit so it's fair" nairo kills salem at 36 when he had 103% rage, the very next game salem kills nairo at 9% while salem was at 3%, the same stage, no platform assistance for either one. you can't pull the "they're both broken" excuse when one is significantly more broken than the other. ZSS has few good combo starters outside of her slow, punishable grab and her downsmash. not to mention how bayo has no straight up losing matchups, she has arguably one or two 45-55 matchups. but few characters even compete with her at all
Bayo doesn't even arguably lose match ups lmao. Anybody saying she does is delusional, she has evens with sheik and pika at the very worst and wins everything else
i personally agree but there is a sizable chunk of the community that believes diddy and sheik do well against bayo, i personally can only see diddy. sheik literally can never kill bayo if she misses the slim 50-50s. bullshit within just lets her live everything until 200%. diddy on the other hand can beat her in neutral and rack up damage consistently but there is still ALWAYS a threat of being killed by getting hit once, diddy has to wait until high % to kill while bayo doesn't. with godly SDI i think it can be a 45-55 but even then that requires much more effort on the part of the diddy.
It's very obvious to see that there are many characters that can compete with her simply by looking at major tournament results lol. People can bitch about how broken she is as much as they want but the fact of the matter is that there's only one or two Bayos in top 8 the vast majority of the time, a truly broken character would be most if not all of top 8 at all majors. She's simply an extremely powerful character that people do not know how to deal with at low to mid level play because the matchup is very hard to learn compared to other matchups (which I will say is unfair but that's how it is.)
People are salty asf, bayo isn’t broken just because you got two stocked on for glory doesn’t mean you need to hate the character if she’s so broken every top player would play her damn people just need to get good and learn the game
I really don't get peoples argument about Salem. That he wouldn't go as far as he did if he didn't play a top tier... Well, duh... Top tiers are top tiers for a reason. Tell me. Name one player who has won an S tier tournament will a mid to low tier character... Don't bother. There is none. In fact I bet there isn't anyone in The top 20 pgr that mains a mid tier or lower (secondarys don't count. They are secondary for a reason) My point is that, why do you not see people make this same argument for literally anyone who mains a high- top tier? Never anyone says Zero wouldn't have gone far if he didn't main diddy, and diddy is arguably the second best character rn. I am not saying that beyo isn't broken, but to make such an argument that can be applied to basically any top tier character why are majority of them directed towards bayo players? Because she is the best character? Kind of a lackluster reason, but reasons are subjective.
no one is arguing that salem isn't a good player. The main problem that people have is that Bayonetta is so far in front of the other top tiers that it seems almost unfair to play with her. It would be interesting to see if Salem switched to a top tier such as diddy kong or cloud. while I wouldn't doubt he would have decent results, they wouldn't compare to the dominance that he's been displaying with bayonetta. Bayonetta gives the user such an advantage that she's completely different and better from every other top tier
Julian Frare Yes there are people arguing about him not only on RU-vid, but twitter too. I wouldn't be making that comment if there wasn't any Salem player hate. I know beyo is broken, but that is not my argument whatsoever.
Zeneva two things: 1. im saying that the skill gap between bayonetta is huge between the next character on the tier list. Some people have cloud over diddy, so your ZeRo analogy doesn't work cause you didn't understand what I was saying. 2. More people would have played bayonetta competitively if she was released with the initial version
>Bayo gets a jank kill Uh-uh dumb character is not fun to watch >ZSS gets a jank kill Wow hype character! Love you Nairo! I fucking love this community
Nietono No Shana Both characters are being played how they're designed to be played. Bayo simply receives more hate because she has like 3 different ways she can kill you with jank and it's 30x safer. This community suffers because people always want to complain about something.
>Nairo uses complicated flipkick setup that required conditioning and 3 reads (Including the second riskiest grab in the game) >Salem presses side b 3 times >"They're the same"
That seems to be a small portion of the community now. These days people either acknowledge those characters have BS rage opportunities(as do most of the cast), or outright brand ZSS a witch just as much as Bayo. The difference in expressions I feel is more that Nairo's fans are in the masses so naturally most of the cheering is apparent when he finds that incredibly difficult rage opportunity. Salem on the other hand, yes Bayo does it slightly easier but the hatred toward Bayo as a character overpowers the recognition Salem deserves. I won't go into the specifics but it should not be a surprise by now that ZSS' jank (assuming we're referring to ladder) is somewhat more difficult to get in tournament/high level play than Bayo's jank, with rage being the main factor there, naturally people will pick a side based on either which they feel is more difficult to get or character/player bias. It doesn't make us right, but it doesn't mean we're wrong either.
dude its true they both have jank kills but bayo does it way easier and safer, she has so many options to easily get you with that jank ass kill, zero suit has to use her laggy ass grab to try to get that jank ass kill on you
Salem is just really good idiots, obviously bayo is really good but a lot of other characters are really good. Y'all dont give Salem the respect he deserves, he probably the smartest smash player. He knows how to win games, not get a sick combo because it will make him the fan favorite. He probably my favorite player after VoiD just because of his game smarts.
All he does is lab gay combos and camp then when the opponent gets tired of bullet camping and make a dumb approach he uses his gay combo and kills them
schlaepferAA Salem actually has a pretty solid Greninja as well. I understand the hate for Bayo, but don't hate Salem for playing her lol, he's just a dude playing a game!
isnt bayonetta, is salem, he played like a god. noone complains before when zero won every tournament using diddy kong, so now everybody is angry cause salem won using bayo, the question is, are u mad because is bayonetta? or angry cause salem is winning? in any case, this calls " changing resistance". move on, in every game, battle etc gonna win the one who played better
Diego Alarcón DTK! In fact a lot of people complained about zero winning lol. The thing is that, as ppmd once said, “play the character and the way you want, people will find a reason to complain anyway”.
You have a character that lacks disadvantage states , literally true combos don’t work on this character cause of bat with in its not Salem it’s the character. It’s not the same at all
Landing Lag from special. Has a hard time killing if opponent can SDI well. No kill throws. Don't get me wrong her pros out weighs the cons, but she can be beaten. Salem is just good. Look at Mkleo's videos aganist Salem. Great SDI. Esam and Elegant too.
Anyone complaining about characters being easy go to a tournament and play those easy Characters and let's see how good you do tbh most games with competitive scenes has good N bad Characters it's Just how games are if you still have a problem stop playing the game or make your own fighting game
dinojack9000 Killing at 50 isn't the reason people are complaining about bayo. Its the fact that she can do that + everything else. Insane framedata, good reach, good weight, not a fastfaller but fast af, powerfull smash attacks, unpunishable ranged damage, a Godlike counter and soo much more. ZSS at least has some drawbacks. Her grab is risky, smash attacks aren't strong and boost kick leaves her very open. ZSS is crazy strong, but at least has some drawbacks to her power. And bayos bats within? Most retarded move in the game, helps you for being bad.
Da Skyliz powerful smash attacks her smashes are literal garbage. Unpuniahable range damage? Bullet arts do .5 percent per hit. Good weight? Shes a light fastfaller that has a terrible airdodge. I swear rhse people complaining about bayo dont know crap about how she works
ubadman1 yeah... Bullet art does .5%...at 1000rpm. That trickling damage DOES add up and it's a huge deal. We are luckily it does absolutely no stun. You also seem to neglect the moves that can use bullet art. Nair + bullet art is one of the most annoying regular moves in her kit. A lingering disjointed hitbox with good knock back growth and little landing lag, not to mention the extra 1% from bullet art? You have to be dumb to think bullet art is anything but useful.
BrownieKuma72 its not useful the only good bullet art is dtilt. And it has recovery on it. Bullet arts have no hitstun. Simply run through them and get a punish. Ive seen zack and pthe rbayo get punished for dtilt bullet arts all the time. 1000 rpm? Stop your exaggeration shes lucky to get 15 percent on entire matches on ba. Nair is easy to punish get below her and she has no option to hit you its an easy antiair.
ubadman1 Do you know what a hyperbole is? Of course BA doesn't go at 1000rpm. I'm showing light to the point that tick damage can be a big deal in the long run. And "long run" is beyos specialty. And obviously you don't play good beyos if you think only dtilt has good bullet art. Nair and uair are NOT easy to punish. And I say again: you have to dumb to not respect the small tack on damage. Stop trying to defend what is obviously an annoying mechanic.
It's nice to see there are more people giving respect to Salem and his character than there have been in the past. I just hope we someday reach a point in our community when we aren't always fighting each other (except in game of course)
I would like to point out something... Salem is an amazing player, Nairo is an amazing player. No matter what you know about Bayo anyone who is an amazing player will dumpster anyone with Bayo because you cannot cut her off easily and you cannot just punish her for N-airing, you can't just punish her landing lag when she can go across the stage faster than most other characters can drop their shield. I don't discredit Salem in the least as a matter of fact he has a great amount of skill in this game. The simplest thing you can say is that Bayo Just has very few weaknesses to exploit. ZSS in my opinion isn't over powered and takes skill to not lose the neutral as she is bad in the neutral game (Her weakness) Bayo's only weakness is landing lag on N-air (which is a safe option even so) and after spamming specials. Now I don't want to see her put in the dumpster and over nerfed and I don't care if she stays the top character but she does need some tweaking to give a little more of an opening on the character than what she has. Think back to Melee and remove the 1st frame off Shine (Like invincibility and start up) and maybe push back the startup like 2 frames to frame 3 for example. It would reveal his weaknesses as being combo foot. Bayo is somewhat similar in that she can be combo food if you can catch her but that is the thing, catching her without an option is the most frustrating thing to see and honestly So far I think Mewtwo probably has the best way to deal with her since confusion cannot proc Bat Within giving him a leg up on her defensive options. but really even then it is hard to contest Bayo at this current time, SDI and DI won't cut it all the time as you have seen Salem and other Bayo players are learning how to counter it there fore forcing the match up to be even harder than it already is.
Frostbyte115 ZSS can have a pretty good neutral. Bair and nair, along with really good, fast frame jab (I think frame 1) and various pretty quick tilts
Congratulations to Salem, top 2 in the PGRv4! Also, I love Salem. Super nice guy and DEFINITELY not to be taken lightly with any character he uses. Personally though, Bayonetta, and a combination of other mechanics in the game make me kinda dislike playing it. Whenever I play competitively, I get super frustrated, but when I play Melee I don't. I'm not trying to make it sound like salt, and I'm not saying melee is better. I just don't have fun playing it competitively because of these design choices. (Please don't give me hate. It's just my opinion ;_;)
you still do not understand that as long as they dlc will be available in competition, the competition is bad and stupid! another stolen tournament! smash competition it was better before they dlc! rip SM4SH
Honestly man, it is true, ever since DLC came in, everyone started picking them up and became big-name players. I believe there is a video about smash without DLC and how it will impact players, like MKLeo forced to use only Marth and Meta Knight, Abadango with MK, ANTi with another swordsman, etc.
Lol I remember when everyone was saying Zero Skill Samus years ago. Now Bayo is the new ladder queen. It’s just sad that people can’t get over themselves and spew so much hate. Bayo is strong but she has weaknesses and people just have yet to learn them. To be honest if you shield Bayo can’t really do too much. Her grab is bad and her approach isn’t that great. Which is why she sits back most of the time. Her character is literally designed to punish bad approaches. She is the definition of bait and punish. Why do you think she can cancel her taunt to attack. Anywho nj to both players
this was actually a great set. i normally hate watching nairo but watching him get beat at his own game before (somewhat) bringing it back in set 2 was super cool.
Bayo just is not meant for this game. Blame all the people who voted for her in. Its like putting deadshot from injustice 2 into streetfighter lol. just automatically has an advantage against every character.
TheOnlyStickboy pressing buttons and winning. Salem is a phenomenal player who has a great understanding of the game. Just seems like a waste that a player like that uses one of the most brain dead characters in the game.
Ed Yeah but I believe he was still trying to feel out which character would aid him more against bayo, zss struggles against the match up so I understand his frustration in this match
Yes, Zss can do the same but at least to kill at 0%, without rage, you have to use the platforms and be frame perfect. Bayo can kill without platforms at 0%. I really hate Bayo...
EJJTM fuck you're stupid and completely blind... Even Salem himself tell it it's a true combo and you can get kill without any platforms. Nairo himself wasn't able to do something in the first match. You can see in the face cam Nairo was disgusted by those kills.
as much as i hate bayo, salem is a god with her. other bayo's can't perform how salem is performing, it's really frustrating for me (and others) to watch this character but you can't deny that he is just a fantastic player
I stopped playing smash ever since I saw how bayo plays. I know in my heart that I’ve made the right decision. :) GG Salem, nairo and zero. As well as the rest.
Good stuff from Salem, but it felt bad to see so many flubs from Nairo. Sets between these two are usually intense and super close, and we got some of that in the last couple of matches, but it felt like Nairo wasn't on top of his game in the first set at all.
When people ask for/want "good characters", what we really mean is "characters that are both competitively viable and balanced". Bayonetta only satisfies one of those criteria. Characters can be good without being fundamentally broken pieces of cancer. Examples: Fox, Sheik, Diddy, Falcon, Mega Man, Luigi, etc.
Yhea let's nerf her, and then complain about the next best character that will surface after Bayo nerf. Then nerf him too, rinse and repeat forever. In every game there is going to be a character that's the best, it just so happened to be Bayo, deal with it. It's not like she's Melee Fox or Brawl MK anyway, or even ssb4 old Diddy or old Sheik....but mine are wasted words.
Bayo, I don't want a ban because she is not banworthy, i think she need a nerf, like making witchtime a counter (you get slowed down based upon intensity of attack) and make her aerials not lagless
i know what auto cancelling and l- cancelling, but Bayo's neutral air is just to good, its disjointed fast and does projectile bullet damage with bullet arts, her nair controls the neutral and Bayo had no losing matchups, you can not make the people are salty argument over a character that has a spike that kills at zero and Bayo can recover from it, a character that can kill you cause you jabbed her and she witched timed (I am a Luigi main, i have been kiled at 30 when a Bayo had 130% when i jabbed and she witch timed), and amazing frame data and combos that can kill u at 3%.
You guys do know you can throw out a free aerial everytime Bayo uses nair right? Don't punish the landing nair, punish the actual move because it has no priority
Uhhh, no. Bullet arts is not a problem It is not a combo starter I'm literally telling you because I'm a Bayonetta main. When a Bayo is holding nair, just throw an aerial out lol. You guys are staying defensive for no reason. Try it yourself.
People really going to go in commenta about bayo being broken. Then why the heck is rweek and abadongo bayonetta such garbage??? Name any other bayo capable of doing what salem does. You cant. You salt shakers are blight on the community. Good win salem. Also if you dont like bayo you better learn to deal she will be in smash 5. Nintendo clearly loves her ip Edit nairo dont come out to a set with the best bayo in the world and srart bowser. I think that just pissed salem off.
ubadman1 Thats what I said about zss and looked what happened. You act like ppl hate bayonetta based on her character. She definitely needs to be tweaked. How is it that she has the ability to punish other characters when she is the one in disadvantaged state? Thats complete bs and you know it.
She probably wont be in another smash game and if it happens well...she will get the MK treatment. She is broken and she is carrying Salem. Most of the community is already complaining about her so...
Revenant the point is he’s a phenomenal player regardless of what character he plays. He recently won Tipped Off 12 with solo Greninja. Beating all the top players on that region.
19:11 That's true, if Nairo Up-b that landing he would have won the tournament, also messed up the spacing at 18:48 and 18:02. Very unfortunate for him to make these mistakes, extremely close battle. GG indeed
Getting bored to see Salem and Leo winning so much tournaments just like Zero did for last 2years. I wanna see Komo Aba Ken, Ally Larry and Fatality etc.. winning. Edit: I know they are not playing for us to show. But u know...
What are you talking about? Tweek won MKleo saga. Elegant won GTX(I'm in denial of that bair from luigi), and Nairo won Smash con, and Dabuz won big house. There's quite a variety.
Grant the Dragon That's all happened in 2017. Years before Zero won most of tournaments. Now leo and salem are winning most of it.(It's just a beginning though)
It's only've been two major tournaments(Japan EVO being a B tier is kinda weak, so personally I've only seen one major tournament as Genesis) for this season. It's too early to say that MKleo is "winning all the tournaments". Let's see what happens at Frostbite. If only Salem or Leo wins that, we may have a problem.
I love Salem, but Bayonetta is such a bullshit character. Any potato can pick her up and just 0-death even some of the best local players. She’s just way too powerful and she counters every other character.
Sweepin Dreamin Are you denying that she is clearly overpowered and is superior to all the other characters? She requires some skill, but come on. Look at her move set and frame data. Bullshit character.
Bayo looks like a pretty high skill cap, where the only way not to get steamrolled is to counter with even-harder-to-do-consistently SDI. Bayo seems like they're definitely a crazy good character, but not broken since everything broken about it can be SDI'd... assuming you're a legend who can SDI consistently... then again, Salem's a legend for reacting to all the DIs and consistently nailing the combo, too. I say it's the top players that are broken and need to be rebalanced :P
TaismoFanBoy bayonetta doesn't have a disadvantage state and has the best advantage state with a top 3 recovery and the best punish game of any character with enough fall speed to compensate for her lighter weight and allow her to live at fairly high % off of the top so she isn't a glass cannon eithee
The amount of misinformed scrubs spouting misinformation about bayonetta and reasons she is "broken" makes my sick to my stomach. No wonder the FGC hates these scrubs
