The argument of point over edge is really (sorry for the pun), pointless. Many people over the centuries have tried to prove one is better than the other, and ultimately it has always been down to context, weapons, armour, style. The argument of thrust will strike before cut can is also irrelevant when you realise the sabre is parry riposte, so will work from parries and binds of the blade. I teach both rapier and sabre and can firmly say, one is not better than other, only different.
Well if by fencing sabre you mean sport/olympic fencing then it will be featherweight, they are more like a car aerial than a blade. In terms of getting something like a ACW sabre, James the Just/Alchem sell some basic sabres of the right shape, otherwise you'll have to buy a sharp and blunt it down. As I said, getting sabres is a real difficulty. We are getting ours from Peter Regenyei (search for his website) from now on.
@sabresandiego You are talking about the modern olympic sport of fencing, so no, this is very different. These represent late 19th century military sabres. Agreed totally on both fighters being hit, that is not acceptable in a real fight, the only way it is considered acceptable here is if the first strike would have stopped the opponent's from landing, ie, a heavy lead arm or head cut.
@jbujko Szymon Chlebowski It isn't a dueling sabre we are after, but a flexible training version of a military sabre as seen in the video. That smith seems to think he can do it. The Pecoraro has a nice hilt, same as the 1899 British gymnasium practice sword, but the blade is extremely light, based on the duelling sabres, too light and flimsy for military sabre practice, though okay for the very late period thrusting orientated systems.
@jbujko One of our students is Polish, living over here. Here is currently in contact with a Polish swordsmith that has been making a lot of medieval training swords recently that are well regarded. We are developing the idea at the moment, will have to see how it comes out, and at what price. I really don't like the Hanwei Hutton, its too short, too light, the guard is weak and the grip is too thin. I don't have any pics right now, but I could probably find some or take new ones.
@tuerkefechi Its not the shoes, in was the floor, if you watch the longsword clip I put up before this where I am fencing I slip a lot too, and my shoes and perfectly suited to training. The left hand is due to the fact that Mike (black) is not principally a sabre fencer, but longsword, and having been out of sabre training for so long it crept out :-)
In general a nice bout. White should use better shoes, they seem to be slippy on the ground. What I don´t like so much is, that the left hand is going wild, when the action becomes faster, it should stay on the hip or better be extended with the cuts. Also I miss the use of the slip/shifting footwork and the retreat after the lunge. Just my opinion.
It is largely how comfortable and good an individual is with a particular style yes. Some people are more suited to one than another. Best thing is simply to practice and find out. There are advantages and disadvantages to both, which is why there has never been a definitive answer historically.
@jbujko Thanks. The swords are made in Austria and supplied by Peter Zillinger as seen in the video (white jacket). There are unfortunately not many options for sabre currently, but we are always working on finding new suppliers.
We used to use the button sabre a lot. They are a little short and light, but still good. They do improve them overtime. Trouble is hanwei prices have gone through the roof this year, no longer making them the bargain they used to be,
I think we could have saved the debate with a simple Word on the Halberd. It offers the thrusting ability of a Rapier, and the slashing ability of the Saber. Behind that it offers the maximized power by being a two handed pole arm. Always run from a Halberd unless you have a dagger to which you can throw it at the person, and then run.
Since this video we now use Regenyei sabres, we have 14 of them in the club and absolutely love them. You will find videos of them in use on my channel.
So in the end it actually really boils down to the duelist; how comfortable is he with a slashing/piercing blade, and how he uses it in combat. But how does one really tell the kind of weapon that they would be good at, does it boil down to personality of the person, and how they think and act in a duel?
And doesn't seem to be getting any better. I have a Regenyei blade on order and may also get a Darkwood. Interestingly, Darkwood seems to have changed their design from earlier models and seem to be more military than Hutton.
@Nikos3000 Do You have a name of that polish swordsmith? I know most of them and there are only a few of them capable of doing a decent duelling sabre, all of those horridly expensive and with a very long waiting time.. What do You think of the Hanwei Pecoraro sabre? Let me know if You'll find some pics of those sabres :)
Is this the same as Sabre fencing? I noticed in sabre fencing, the combatants are extremely agressive and it seems they almost always both hit, but the one who hits first gets the point. In real life if you both hit, you would both lose! not win.
@Nikos3000 Tell me about it :/ Here in Poland there's rather no other option for duelling sabres than buying Hanwei. Do You have any photos of those sabres? Perhaps they can be ordered from abroad? :)
Good to know. A bit dear for me adding in shipping, but perhaps well worth it. I noticed in another video that the Austrians all seem to wear white under other colours. Are these standard fencing kit with special overgarments?
I am sorry to say that they are long out of production. However severnal individuals/companied are working on getting something out soon. The only options right now are the Hanwei Hutton sabre, which is too short and too light, and the Darkwood Armoury duelling sabre, which I have heard good things about but not used. The HEMA community is better served every year by suppliers, but training sabres is a major weakpoint.
