Thanks, we certainly have put a lot of time in to getting good quality respectable kit. The sabres are not Hanwei Huttons, but we do use those as well. The jackets are the basic PBT (Hungary) coaching jackets. Helmets are Leon Paul coaching with leather mask top. Knee/shins are brushcutter guards. Escrima forearm guards and gloves from Revival, also motorcycle gloves are good for sabre. Contact me by PM if you want links to the suppliers, happy to help.
No problem. One of the key reasons for these videos existence is to explain such things. Show people how these weapons were and can be used and offer an opportunity to ask questions about all aspects of them.
They are just such very different weapons for different periods and uses. In a civilian context, so self defence and honourable quarrels, a rapier (ideally with dagger), for war, a sabre. Trained with swords for 14 years, but not always proper HEMA (from period fighting systems), serious rapier study from about 2005 onwards, sabre much later, its more a fun extra weapon for us as opposed to primary.
No, they are what is generally referred to as a 'gymnasium sabre' in the 19th century, a slightly lighter more flexible bladed training weapon for safe sparring practice. They were then used for the practice of both infantry and cavalry swordsmanship, as the blade length of the two was not as much as you would think, as little as two inches, weight and mass distribution were, but that didn't matter when these were intended for safe practice in as realistic fashion as possible.
Yes I have done, its very interesting stuff. Check out my more recent sabre videos, as this one is four years old. We practice sabre from early to mid 19th century British military manuals.
@MrScijin Yeh, it just depends on if and when it has been cleaned. Saying that, a real fight doesn't always take place in ideal conditions, so I don't mind the variation at all.
The gloves in this video are Revival light sparring gloves with Roo the leatherman's armadillo gauntlets over the top for Mike. We don't use either anymore. We use British police riot gloves which are excellent for rapier, sabre and smallsword.
Elbow guards are police riot and Ice hockey. Leg guards are Brushcutter guards. they are incredably light and flexible with good protection overall. However, they lack side of the knee protection. Several purpose made options have been released for historical fencing this year with more to come, like SPES, Absolute Force, and PBT releasing a range soon. I think the PBT ones will be the best based on prototypes I saw in February.
@ZSwordsMan You are probably looking at Sport blades. Having said that, curved historical training blades aren't easy to get. These are built specially by an engineer in Austria, but are difficult to get. I have seen a US supplier selling them but forgotten the name. Most people use the Hanwei Hutton sabres, which are a little short, but otherwise slightly curved and good for the job.
@Polskmofo No worries, they are Austrian made and supplied through Peter Zillinger of Klingenspiel in Austria. They cost 150 euros, atleast when we bought them two years ago.
How much to buy all these equipment? I really want to spar with my friend but sadly I do not know where to order them oversea. Really had fun watching this btw
I may be wrong as I am only beginning at sport sabre and never tried historical fencing., but as illustrated by some exchanges in this comments section, there seems to be some disparities between historical and sport sabre fencing techniques - the grip, the way to manage distance, the presence of circular cuts and the guards all look somewhat different. I am curious to know your opinions and thoughts on the subject.
@sonoflurch The flexibility developed as swords got lighter and firearms became more prevalent. At this stage of rapier, relatively little or no armor was worn and battles were mostly fought with guns. Military sabers weren't much heavier at all but were just as flexible. Even longswords were fairly flexible but Hollywood tends to portray them as solid and inflexible. In truth an inflexible blade would shatter or bend if made contact with metal. Epee and foils are just for sport though.
so look at say the 2012 Olympic sabre finals with slow motion which is on youtube. Continuous stepping forwards with loads of feints to create a split second opening. But almost every contact is a double because of this, as we know, such feints were very dangerous, many historical masters tell us as such. So Olympic fencing is impressive in athletics and skill of timing for what it is, but is a long way short of representing a sword fight, for ultimately, the purpose is to survive.
Those clashes are typically parries or looking for openings. Frequently they are attempts at feints where the opponent hasn't responded. Sometimes they are dead parries. The sabre being a parry-riposte weapon, you almost always need to make solid (dead) parries before following with a counter, but sometimes it is too dangerous to precede with that counter safely.
In this video they are both from an Austrian engineer who used to make them as a hobby but is now retired, so they have now fallen out of use as blades are no longer available. We have 12 sabres coming from peter regenyei (search you will find his website). We already use his longswords in the club and find them brilliant so have no doubt they will be good. He will also make them to your specification. Price about 180 euros roughly.
@sonoflurch Its a matter of safety. Its rather dificult to create a flexible curved blade, and you therefore tend to end up with more flex in the blade than is ideal, though it doesn't effect the fight too much. There are very few makers of training sabres and these are the best, whereas with rapiers and longswords there are a lot more oprtions. So this is just an unfortunate characteristic of a safe training weapon, which will hopefully improve with future developments.
Yes there are many differences. The modern sport sabre is derived by the 19c duelling sabres, quite a different weapon to the military sword. The circular blade actions (Moulinets) are immensely common as they are needed to make many parries and develop speed and power for the cuts. Whereas a sport sabre has no mass at all, and you require only contact, not a cut, so they can be flicked. DIstance is entirely different because in sport sabre there is no concern for not being hit
@duran3d No, as control of the fight does not mean success in combat. Rules will vary depending on the type of freeplay or tournament, but as a rule, double hits do not count for anything, unless one hit is substantially better than the other, or one would have stopped the other from landing.
Sorry replied from wrong ID. That is indeed true of the sabre. Many civilian forms revolved around years of training, but the sabre being a military tool required it to be taught simply and easily in a very short time, and to be combat effective in the quickest time possible. I enjoy sabre, but it doesn't fascinate me as much as earlier weapons in actual style. I may look at some videos at some point in the future for it.
It is what we call a double hit, and is always something to avoid at all costs in swordsmanship. Sadly we know from countless historical accounts that they happen. They can be reduced over time with training, but at any level, with fighters of roughly equal skill they will and still do happen. At 1:09 the fighter on the right likely would have lost control of his arm, fighter on the left was likely hit with the flat of the blade, so may or may not have been serious.
A big thing I have found that helps is using my off hand to grab the blade or try to use it to hold off my opponents sword. I would much rather lose some fingers or a hand than my face. Also wondering why you guys are not starting with a hanging guard more often?
how comes the swords get more flexible? you know like,before there was the longsword, the rapier,but then theres these, and it seems to me like they are less effective (ive never even picked up a sword before, just going by what i see) can you explain?
pleas excuse my ignorance I have never fought with a saber or even fought against one. when you guys clash blades with what looks like no intention of striking, are you feeling for an opportunity or trying to create one or is there intent to strike but I just cant see it?
@BuscoBeast As with any martial arts academy, we are judged by our reputation and results, and our teaching around Europe as well as results in competitive tournaments, both and as instructors and our students, speak for themselves. Historically through most periods in European history there were no credentials to teach, you just start a school, and your standard dictates your reputation, so if you feel upto the task, do so.
What was that at 2:42 ? Trying to grasp the blade with the left hand, or block it? Untidy style that ignores the basics of sabre fencing. Keep the free hand behind the body, hold your belt if need be, but never be tempted to grasp or pin the opponents blade.
Why we do but I don't do hema. So depends. On linear attacks its hard to close in trap the arm. You'd have to angle out of the way either left out right to have a chance.
that might be true for modern sabre fencing, but there are plenty of historical sources that talk about the use of the off-hand to trap, grab, or deflect the blade, for military sabre fencing. Whether it's a good idea or not, it was done in historical military terms, so seems like it might have been in certain contexts.
@BuscoBeast Bravo! This is ridiculous. These two gentlemen position themselves as pros and fencing teachers - but what I see is two amateurs who learned fencing from the book.
Good fighting but i feel like you guys could be striking more zones. Lower legs? Closing the gap? "holding down the pillow" with relentless attacks once your opponents on the defensive? Ever used a sword with two handed handle? or use more circular motions to increase attack speed like in kung fu broadsword forms of tai chi sword techniques? Just a thought, nice work tho, check out my vids to see what i mean.
They are steel, made as an original would be. They are made safe by being blunt and with broad tips. However protective gear is still needed to provide protection from the blunt force trauma. In more recent videos we now use sabres matched in size and weight to British 19th century sabres. The ones here are a tiny bit lighter and thinner.
+michael strang They are long out of production. We now use sabres from Peter Regenyei in Hungary. He makes the best military training sabres in the world. They are also more realistic than the ones here, which were a little to light in the blade and whippy.
There are a few too many doubles than I would have liked here. Michael and I have been fencing for so long and know eachother's style so well that this is one unfortunate result. Always working on this. Of course the likelihood of fighting a sabre fighter that you had regularly practicied against in a real fight would be very slim. Shields are great, but long gone by the period of the infantry sabre in British usage.
If they will not inflate their achievements. One thing just came to my mind - why no one is trying to restore historical tennis? Get the old tennis manual, dress respectively, neglect modern tennis - and bingo - you are historical tennis pro. Than you can start historical tennis league.
@BuscoBeast Thanks for sharing my opinion. Unfortunately, your link doesn't work. I think problem is that guys who position themselves as a historical fencers, learn fencing from books, start this activity being adults already and never have anyone who can teach them what fencing is. Fencing requires tremendous amount of time to learn, not saying efforts. And you need a master, who can demonstrate, explain and mentor. What I see here is nice hobby, and I would have more respect to these guys
Title was just keyword spamming before it was easy to attach search strings, as this video is close to six years old! AHF is our group, the Academy of Historical Fencing.
Sorry, but you are just wrong. This is a bout between two highly skilled european martial artists who regularly bout against the top fencers around the world.
Christian's Channel Speed which can be increased using a second hand, basic physics, F=ma a greater force equals a greater acceleration, therefore a greater velocity change. It just seems like such a strange sword based fighting style, its too formal and slow and snippy and flimsy to be used in anything but a sparring match.
@whitetiger82821 I don't know why people with no understanding of fencing speculate about different weapon. Leath foil, epee then sabre - stupid statement. If you want to excel, you need to specialize on one weapon. Period.
@DiVeronica very bad foot work sabre is footwork and speed and the hit. Aarm is first not foot. distance is very bad. sabre is a advance weapon you learn foil then epee then sabre.
@marozzo Too bad for you. This is bullshit, not a sabre fencing. Guys have no clue about fencing at all. Amateurs who participate in nonsense tournaments and full around with others who think that this what fencing is.
