I love that when Major Winters says "We salute the rank not the man" he highlights something additionally I didn't notice until now. Yes, he's acknowledging Sobel's reluctance to salute him, but he also says this in reflection to when he was Sobel's inferior and had to salute him. He did so, honorably, saluting Sobel's rank, not the man.
Captain Sobel acknowledged Major Winters is no longer his subordinate. As a Lieutenant, all the Sergeants threw their support behind Winters. Sobel was envious.
That actually clarifies much of the scene. I always thought he was letting Sobel off easy, but in reality he was letting Sobel know just what he always thought of Sobel. Also, I just re-watched the scene where Sobel was fired. While being driven off in a Jeep, Sobel fails to return Winter's salute.
Exactly right. He's saying "I didn't respect you, but I saluted you because of your rank and station, which I *do* respect. We all did, and we all do." Double slap, for sure, but also a great lesson if Sobel would care to understand it. Captain Winters is a role model's role model. I'm so thankful we got interviews with him before he passed in 2011. The man was so humble that it's likely we wouldn't have heard it directly from him, only from others ABOUT him.
@Tin Man He's battalion commander, while Sobel was just a battalion S4 officer. Winters outrank him both physically (Major vs Captain) and office (Battalion CO vs section CO)
@@ryannguyen7466 Exactly, and while it is just a military courtesy, it's a very real one. If you're wearing a cover (hat) or under arms, you salute a superior officer. Sobel was both and it was a gross breach of etiquette to not salute, especially after the other man did. It bordered on insubordination.
Same for me. It’s like ‘oh...what a paradox: the very loud and bossy guy who has to answer to his humble and able then-subordinate and now superior officer’
One of my favorite scenes in the entire series... and it really makes you realize how INCREDIBLE David Schwimmer was as Sobel. We haven't seen him since the start of the series, yet his presence immediately brings out feelings of disgust and then satisfaction of his humiliation. That's top-tier acting.
It's always the unsung hero of being such a good actor to make people despise you. Not everyone has it in them to be a Joker, a Malfoy, or even a Sobel.
I was surprised to see David Schwimmer's name in the credits, but he was very good and playing a contemptible character. At least as Sobel is portrayed in BoB. I have read other accounts that said while he was obviously unqualified to lead men in combat, he was an excellent training commander.
I don't think winters was trying to humiliate him. Yes it was a punch in the gut, but he also couldn't let it pass. He probably would have said nothing if sobel just saluted like he should have.
You derive satisfaction from his humiliation? Captain Sobel wasn't a bad guy. Being incompetent doesn't make him evil, neither does being strict or hard on his trainees.
I love this scene from the book⬇️ "Back in camp after his leave, Winters was strolling down a deserted company street one afternoon when a solitary figure approached from the other direction. Winters instantly recognized the familiar shape of Captain Herbert Sobel. The former commander of Easy Company and his former XO had not had any direct contact since shortly after the court-martial incident seventeen months earlier. Now they were alone, about to confront each other on an empty company street.Sobel pretended he hadn’t seen Winters, or at least did not recognize him, both of which were impossible. He brushed past. Winters stopped and turned.“Captain Sobel,” he snapped.Sobel stopped and turned to face Winters.“We recognize and honor the rank,” Winters said.Sobel came to attention. “Yes, sir,” he said, and saluted.Winters returned a crisp salute. Sobel dropped his hand, spun on his heel and tromped off. Winters watched him go with an air of satisfaction. Any debt that man had owed him for the hard times of the past was now repaid in full."
I agree but after that character I disliked D. Schwimmer for some crazy reason to the point I think his Melvin character (Madagascar) is someone else. Edit: I dont know the guy personally just basing my self to the Capitan Sobel act.
Brilliant scene from a non verbal perspective. Sobel looks the the other way as soon as he spots Winters/Nixon. The smile on Liebgott's face says it all and Nixon's reaction needs no words.
haha......he shoulda told Sobel to re-inventory all of supplies all over again, as there was a discrepancy in the count of toilet paper rolls. Can't abide that in this mans army, no sir....
Sobel shot himself in the head with a small-caliber pistol. The bullet entered his left temple, passed behind his eyes, and exited out the other side of his head. This severed his optic nerves and left him blind. Sobel's son, Michael found this rather odd, as his father was right handed. He was later moved to a VA assisted living facility in Waukegan, Illinois. September 30, 1987, the death certificate listed malnutrition as the cause. Sobel was a horrible field soldier but he was an excellent trainer. He may have been over the top with his cruelty, but he turned Easy Company into the best airborne outfit of the entire war.
Yeah, but that's the same as comparing the difference between an Olympic-level athlete and a high school coach. Teaching it doesn't matter as much as doing it.
Sobel's own son as you stated found it odd as he Father was right handed. To be honest his own family didn't attend his funeral as ties had been broken years prior. Sobel did remain in the military as a reservist. His final rank was a Lieutenant Colonel. The way he died by malnutrition is hard to comprehend. He was in the care of the VA part time since he shot himself. Losing the ability to see. Still i felt bad the way his life finally ended. I know he trained men well in parachute school. Yet that still doesn't make one an effective leader of men in combat. 💪🏼🙏🏻✨
There is no way to know for sure and I don't want to take anything away from Sobel but I come away with the following when considering the man: 1). He always felt slighted for losing Easy right before the jump in to Normandy. He felt robbed of his shot at martial glory and it made him bitter. The truth was had he went with Easy, it would have been him, not Lt. Meehan who died in the Easy Company HQ plane when it was shot down. And even if that did not happen, Sobel likely would have gotten himself killed or fragged early on in the fight. Possibly a lot of his men killed as well. 2). He was a great trainer as it turned out, but was that by design, or the wrong man at the right time, with the right men? In Army terms he was "chicken sh^t"...sucking up to superiors while being a petty tyrant to those below him. Basically friendless, biter, and determined to take out all the slights he ever experienced on those under his command. As well as using them for his own advancement. The ultimate payback. So was he a great trainer? or did the times and circumstances, combined with his petty personality, work to create something special and unexpected...like lightening in a bottle? I don't know the truth is, only that he came to a miserable end, self inflicted for the most part. In light of that and Easy's accomplishments, I guess I'm inclined to credit the man as a great trainer and let the historians hash it out.
@@USS-SNAKE-ISLAND - I think Winters respected what Sobel turned Easy into... but was largely indifferent to Sobel as a leader... he even said of Sobel: _"“One of the reasons that Easy Company excelled was undoubtedly Captain Sobel...”_
I was in the military for 10 years, the last 3 as an officer. I came across many officers like Captain Sobel during my service and they all had one thing in common; they all went too far in the end and were either court martialled or demoted.
This was one of the most memorable extended scenes in the entire series. It tells you a lot about Winters' empathetic nature and how he can delegate and still show great authority. His interaction with Sobel is one of great empathy; Winters knows that there is no love lost between them and that Sobel is perhaps envious of Winters' career trajectory. However, Winters is aware that maintaining military chain of command is of paramount importance; and by reminding Sobel of this, he brokers a truce between them in the most respectful and professional manner possible. You can see a tinge of Winters' retributive emotion by the way he pulls down his hand after the salute - he's human after all. The German general's speech after this highlights the empathetic nature of all great leaders. David S. was really great in this role and the further away I get away from his Friends career, the more I appreciate his acting in this series.
One of my very favorite parts of the entire movie is Soebel having to acknowledge and salute Major Winters. Then the look on the face of the enlisted man and the Captain. LOVE IT.
Love this "full circle" moment.... from when Winters, as a Lieutenant, saluted Sobel when Sobel was being driven away after losing Easy Company, and Sobel disregarded him and didn't return the salute. Now, Winters as a Major, is not going to let it slide again.
Yeah but is not like he did it with that purpose. The guy was a power-addicted bully, and he was a hateful douchebag because that was his nature, regardless of what positive effects that might have had in the relationships between the soldiers.
Yes that's true, all the men of Easy Company said that without his harsh training, they proabably wouldn't have survived or did as well as they accomplished during the war. Doesn't mean they didn't hate him for it, or wonder why he seemed to hate them, I mean yeah a Drill Sergeant/Drill Instructors job is to get recruits to hate them, but sometimes you wonder if they're doing it as part of their job, or if they actively hate you all ... Which Sobel seemed to do.
gustavo, exactly. You can see it on his face in the scene where they are hiking up the mountain, and they all pass Sobel to show him they can take whatever he throws at them. The look on his face isn't " yeah, thats what im talkin about guys, i finally made you great soldiers"......its one of " wtf....how dare they not fail and cower before me".
This is the most subtle and humble own ever lol. Went from being his errand boy to reminding him of respect and title with sheer humility shown. Sobel never even sniffed the battlefield because he was a terrible tactical leader and here he has to recognize arguably the best tactical leader and leader of men in the entire company.
And the only reason sobel was not allowed to lead hundreds of men to their unnecessary death was because a handful risked court marshals in refusing to serve under him in battle.
Asshole got owned, LOVE IT! For the descendants of Captain Sobel, I know he was a good man I read the history. I'm just happy his character got owned in the show.
My father told me a story about one of his men, a MSgt. My father said that when he was just a Pvt. That MSgt was very hard on him and has done everything to put my father on combat outposts while always saying that he will do everything to find dirt to discharge my father in the Army. Little did he know that because of what he did my dad became a career combat soldier and was fast climbing the rank ladder after joining the SF and ASR Special Operations Com. When my dad became a major, that dude still remained a MSGT and was among my father's men. One day when he visited our home on some occasion, the MSgt was drunk and started antagonizing my father, saying that he should not be calling him sir since he was way more senior. And my dad's reply was something like what Winters said. "Yes, indeed, yet I am the major and you are the MSgt." He was so bitter towards my dad becoming a senior CO at just a very young age of 39 while he was about 50 and was near retirement.
In the movie, Capt. Sobel tried his best to ignore Major Winters, it just killed him to stand there and salute a former subordinate who surpassed him. If I was Winters, I would of sternly reminded Sobel of basic military protocol and that is to salute a superior rank. In real life, both junior CO's and NCO's held very little respect for Sobel who regarded him as a poor officer.
Easily my favorite scene from the entire series, I also appreciate that they nailed the address to the surrendering Germans, they understood that a lot them were simply fighting for a cause they believed and they were simply men following the orders of men who embodied in such evil ideologies, it takes true warriors to set aside their differences and show mercy to those whose comrades didn’t. Im fully aware of the atrocities committed, but to have fought against, sacrificed and lost family and friends, for those men to then show mercy and decency to them after the war took a spoke volumes about who they were as not only soldiers but as humans and that is why they are and always will be the greatest generation
I've always thought Dick deserved a little more support there. Sobel needed a dose of humility. Life didn't go particularly well for the real Sobel after the war. Dick Winters on the other hand was made from cold, pure rot iron steel of the highest strength and quality mankind will ever see. As was may own WW2 vet father. An 18 year old Canadian farm kid who grew up eating what he could hunt with a daily ration of ammunition becomes a nightmare to any enemy once the army puts a Brenn gun in his hands.
I’m a teacher and I used this in class as an example to my students that it doesn’t matter if you like someone as a person or not, if they’re a higher position than yourself you at least need to show the respect their position deserves.
@@florinivan6907 I agree. The level I teach though is very much still in that black and white phase so that’s how I have to present certain things at times
I think the little shake of the head and smile is such a perfect reaction from Nix. What was once seen as a major ballache had faded into insignificance after the whole European invasion, and two battle hardened vets barely need to communicate about it.
Funny to me how at the end of the war with all the hardships they've been through that anyone would care about past boot-camp grudges. Sobel and Winters survived the war. They both won.
Show's that even in the Military you better show respect to lower ranks. You never know if one day you just might have to salute them and call them SIR, or MA'AM.
My son became an Airborne Ranger and SF 10th because he met Major Richard Winters at Ft.Benning. I got a tremendous letter from him thanking me for raising him right. Major Winters was a breed I fear do not exist today. Winters experienced the horrors of WWII. from Normandy to Berchesgarten . From BEFORE the invasion till the end of the war with 86% casualties., the man is a real warrior, but a "gentle warrior" R.I.P. DIck.
Winters - what a good officer should be. Didn’t gloat. My Dad was career Marine, took care of his men, from the greatest generation. Proud to be his son. Oorah!
If you get this please extend my profound gratitude to your father I have been blessed to serve with Marines and As an Army NCO I find them the very best... thank you for your service.. OOHRAH.
