Dean is basically saying, "You say that you can't live without her - or that you don't know how. But if you bring her back this way, you're still going to have to live without her. Because she will never forgive you for bringing her back this way."
Yep, you really feel his absence this season. Right when Dean is making an excellent point in the wrong way, Sam'd normally swoop in and rationalize it and together, make a convincing argument. Not this season. There's some great moments of things never happening in this one.
Indeed. Samuel's last glance at Soulless Sam as they leave kind of displays Samuel's final thoughts. He's seen monsters. But Sam without a soul must have been such a bad dude, he chooses a Demon over him.
That moment when Dean tells him to learn from their mistakes is really emotional. Almost brings a tear to my eye to hear Dean say that especially when you can tell he's having major war flashbacks of his time in hell because of the deal he made when he says it.
A part of me wishes that in S14 when they Dean had held to pearl & concentrated on what his heart desires (in attempt to get rid of AU Michael) it brought back thier Dad. But apart of me wishes that the pearl also gave John the opportunity to meet his father & Mary gets to see her father again.
Samuel here is a seasoned hunter yet when a demon comes along and tells him he can bring his daughter back from the dead he simply buys it? What the hell?
Bear in mind Demons weren't as active during Samuel's time. He has little real world interaction with them. It's why he didn't have an anti-possession tattoo - only John had notes on Demon's and even those were scant. He's only read up on them recently (mostly from Sam / Dean's accounts) but in all fairness.... The only person who truly lost it all to a demon was John Winchester, a man he hated. Mary got what she wanted despite giving her life for it, and only was burnt to a crisp presumably because she attempted to interfere - going against the deal. That's ambiguous, but they've accepted that it was her interference that got her killed (though in reality, I'm sure they're aware it didn't matter, given Azazel's plan). The very thing he's trying to do here is play ball, get what you want, accept the evil. Crowley's in charge at this time, and for him, a deal's a deal. His credibility is much more convincing than any other demon. This is sort of the golden-age of Hell, under Crowley it's almost downright respectable. We don't know what measures Crowley went to convincing Samuel. At this time, we haven't seen Crowley really work his persuasion. Crowley convinced Bobby to take a Demon deal, the most sensible character in the entire show, in an afternoon - stakes were higher, but this is Bobby. Even Castiel, in essence, accepts a Demon Deal and despite Castiel's failures - Crowley largely lived up to his bargain despite Castiel betraying him. Castiel's failures came from drunken power rather than Crowley's treachery. We see Crowley convince Castiel by taking him on a personal tour in hell - Crowley's very convincing. The boys are just learning this - they're used to Azazel's crowd, Lucifer devotees, who by comparison are savages compared to Crowley. Samuel also knows Crowley was instrumental in betraying Lucifer, which gives him a LOT of street credibility. He calls the boys hypocrites because they've not only both interned in Hell, but they also worked with Crowley on multiple occasions at this point, despite having less reason to trust him than Samuel does at this point. Bear in mind Samuel hated John Winchester, and he says so openly. He see's Sam and Dean as not only his grandkids, but John Winchester's children. It's in the flannel. Just look at those carhart wearin' boys, they are the spitting image of John's mindset. They reek of John Winchester's military mindset and his methodical principles over Hunter's instincts and tradition. They also lived their entire lives without Mary Winchester's influence - to him, they are very much John's children, not Mary's. They even took the Winchester name, not the Campbell name. It sucks, but Samuel's also not entirely wrong here. Crowley will likely live up to his bargain. As much as Samuel *SHOULD* listen to them, so should they listen to Samuel. It's a two way street. They had this issue with Castiel too. A lifetime of dealing with Azazel wounded them, but a number of demon's have proved useful. Meg borders on a redemptive arc (evil to neutral, at best, but still), Crowley turns out to be crucial in dealings in the future, and Witch's like Rowena (who're classically making their own version of hellish pacts for power) turn out ok. Samuel's a good character, he just happens to fit a bit neutral on the spectrum. Really, this all goes back to John. John was a good man, Samuel might have come to see it had things turned out differently. But John... there's a darkness there that only the boys really saw. A carelessness, a hyper military dictatorship... maybe it stems from Vietnam. Even John admits that he was more Drill Sergeant than father to them, after a point. John participated in a morally neutral war, taking orders and making the most of them. This runs counter to Samuel's lifestyle - own your own homestead, stay outside the law, keep away from the government. John took orders and eventually gave them. Structure was important. For Samuel, family mattered more. Ironically very similar things. There's a lot more going on here than one might expect. The big one is this - John had a habit of taking partners, but getting them killed. The boys choose not to group with Samuel and try to come together, and in the end, it ends with Samuel being taken by the Khan worm and being killed. Ironically this also mirrors what happened to Mary Winchester. Samuel was possessed by Azazel and killed his whole family - an act that he does not remember, to his downfall. Ironically it's Mary who planted this seed in the family. From Samuel's point of view, these demon's are on the rise on Sam and Dean's watch. Sam Winchester slept with a demon and triggered the apocalypse - Dean solidified it breaking the first seal. To Samuel, they ARE hypocrites. He's not aware that Mary is the one who really started it all. Mary agreed to give Sam the demon blood, though she did not know *exactly* this when she made the deal. Mary chose John. Mary chose her children over herself, solidifying Sam Winchester's demonic heritage and her own death. John sold his soul to save Dean, who in turn sold his soul to save Sam. None of which would have happened had Mary not taken the original deal. We know this definitively because in the alternate universe, she didn't take the deal and lived alone. Samuel's unaware of this, even if Sam and Dean tell him - he doesn't trust them or their accounts. They've made bad calls, world-ending calls, along with world-saving ones. To him, Mary's the only one without blame... and ironically is, regretfully, the original carrier for this plague. Had they talked it out, they might've come to the conclusion that the angels really are to blame, and maybe would've figured out Castiel's falling into that trap as well. Had Sam had his soul, maybe that would've happened. Sam figures out a lot as soon as his soul is back - maybe Samuel would be alive now had that happened. It's a good story, it's just easy to put ourselves on Sam and Dean's side of things, because we know their perspective. Samuel... hell. We don't even know if Samuel was in Heaven or Hell. Who he really was - and nobody does. He's a dusty heirloom of an old world he's desperately trying to build back. It's more than sad.
Imagine being doomed to suffer in hell for all eternity, and suddenly your king comes to you and offers you a chance to take your (literally) hellish existence and use it to give your daughter a 2nd chance at life. Especially when considering that shortly before he died, his behavior drove Mary to run away from home. Not to mention that Crowley was certainly no fan of Azazel, the exact same demon who killed Mary in the first place, and Lucifers most loyal servant. Crowley and Samuel both had their own reasons for loathing him, making it childs play to wrap grandpas head around his finger.
@@Da1337Man Ok, say that Crowley kept his word and brought Mary back. How do you think she would react when she finds out that her father sold her sons out and made a deal with a demon, aka the very same thing that killed her and her husband and cursed her son?
@@BigMac8000 Still, Samuel has encountered demons before, he must've known that demons lie. Hell, Crowley did lie to Samuel about bringing him and Sam back, it was Castiel who did it.
This scene is more intense if u watched season 14, when jack died, they felt like they needed to do everything in their power to bring him back, that is what he is doing.. even sadder now when winchester know what it is like to lose a "son"
I can to because go through something very close to losing a kid but it losing my fiance that was going to be my wife it hard to live with out her if there was something I could do to help her come back I would in heartbeat
As a father of a 3 year old girl I can honestly say I would do the exact same thing as Samuel if I had lost her. Doesn't make it right, but I wouldn't think twice
It really highlights Dean's hypocrisy and self-loathing. As much as he's been dealing with Crowley and other demons he has no right to judge, but he does anyway because he hates himself.
No, "they" didn't do anything about it. Amara just brought her back as a gift on her own accord. It wasn't a request or a wish... and it was a very, very bad move by the writers.
@@traderofgoods6500 Yeah, I thought she and Jack both were a fine addition to Supernatural. They gave Sam and Dean a chance to develop more as people by way of the mother/son and father/son dynamic, since there was really no way for those two to get further character development by Season 10 without them. They brought some much needed freshness to the show, and honestly, Supernatural wouldn’t have been as much fun during the final seasons if it weren’t for those two characters.
It's hard to hate samuel for this. Dean and Sam lost their mom, but that probably pales in comparison to a parent losing a child. Samuel came back to life to find out his daughter is dead
Cut to season 8 when Dean is pissed at Sam for not even trying to bring him back.....cut to season 10 when Dean kills death and releases the Darkness so that him and Sam both get to live...Cut to season ....you get the point.
@@traceykeevers7151 The only reason Sam was going to be killed was because Dean was going to be banished to stop the Mark from hurting others (Deans request). Sam was going to do whatever he could to stop this from happening. Dean then decides to go back on the deal he made with Death and kills him. Another instance of the Winchesters doing whatever it takes to save each other from dying or being dead. Which is why it comes off pretty hypocritical when Dean tells Samuel to let it go. Consequences to doing things because they can't live without each other doesn't end after this scene. Samuels whole plot is something Sam or Dean would do in order to bring eachother back.
Sam and Dean can't live without each other. They pull the very same crap as Samuel. Samuel is trying to get his child back. His drive is stronger than theirs. Sam killed his niece and they both left their half brother Adam to rot in Hell. Are they really better?
Exactly they always say "learn from our mistakes" but then again if one of them dies they'll just bring back each other with no hesitation the hypocrisy and that's why i don't see them as heroes but anti heroes not good nor bad
Dzaniki Smean they wouldn’t forget lmao in all technically we might because it’s a show but hypothetically speaking this is there lives and they wouldn’t forget this😂
They probably held this back because Mary loved and looked upto her father, telling her everything would break her. It was hard enough for her to adjust to her 4 year old and 6 month old children being fully grown men
@@RandomHero_85 Or they could've simply forgiven their grandfather for this because, after all, Samuel meant well. He was a father wanting his daughter back.
I can understand why Samuel was doing what he was doing but he had no arguments here all he had to say in defense for Dean tearing into him was that he was a hypocrite which honestly doesn’t matter and when Dean points out how Mary would react if she found out how he did (or at least was implying how she would react) Samuel says nothing except “get out”.
Or when Dean comes back from purgatory. Sam gave up hunting for 1 year he blames her all the time while he lived with Lisa for 1 year too Hypocritical Or when Gabriel didn't want to kill his brother and says "you can't or you don't want to" and calls him a coward when he also doesn't want to kill his brother Dean was actually a hypocrite several times
Somebody needs to do something about the comment section here with the large number of comments from one person. Tyler Smith spammed the whole section.
I know this aired years ago, but I am binge watching. So when I got to this episode, I wonder why Samuel was only focused on bringing back Mary and not his wife?? She died fighting off that demon, but Samuel seems only to care about Mary. Oh well.
Losing a spouse breaks your heart. Losing your child shatters your soul. If he was given the choice between either his wife or his child, a good father would pick his child. He’s willing to go this far for Mary, how much farther would he have to go for both of them?
Even though samuel has more experience as a hunter, he has no experience when it comes to crowley. The boys fell for it just like he is. Can't blame him for trying but Sam and Dean have been screwed over so much that they know what they are talking about when it comes to crowley screwing the pooch. Every single time. And to think, would mary want it this way?
Yes he Did, but at this point of the season they thought Crowley did it because He lied, as wll as Cas because they were working togther and stuff. Cas admitted it in Episode 20. It was all about Cas saying what Acully happened.
