Saturday Night Special 135: Tailstock Alignment Bar, Wilton Belt Sander 

Hello, one of your viewers dropped us a line to point us to your video. We're glad to see your grandfather's indicator being put to good use! It was awesome to learn about the process you take and learn a bit about tail-stock alignment bars. Thanks for sharing your knowledge.

being too dang awesome can cause audio issues. try taking a half step back and wearing 2 t-shirts.

.... and we do appreciate your time and videos Adam!

Not only is their gear good, it is well built. I misplaced the Pro Lathe Gage from off the top of some large plastic boxes that I was placing in the back of my truck ... I ran over it; the box was somewhat crushed and the level screw had the imprint of a small street pebble. The gauge still works - what an amazing and well constructed tool. I already have a bucket list of Edge Technology tools that I will go through this year.

In this situation you do need the two thou. You're getting mixed up when you do this by measuring the diameter. THEN you are looking for 1/2 of the difference in diameter. Always enjoy the videos, Adam. Watching you and the other youtube machinists has started me on a new hobby of home machining. Thanks for providing the inspiration. I always learn something.

Hello Adam, About the weight problem on the old horizontal belt sander build a box inside the base and pour it full of concrete for added weight you won't believe how much smoother it will make it run and it's not expensive to do.

I love your honesty in your presentation. I have a fine sound system, and i don't hear hum or rattle. Your machining is hypnotic, sometimes. Cheers and thank you.

I'm an electronics engineer. But, I always learn something new when I watch your show. I always enjoy it. Keep up the good work.

Hi Adam (and viewers). Regarding the Amazon links, remember to tell that if people are not interested in the particular item you link to, they can still click the link and just buy any other product(s) they may like. As long as they click the link, any purchase will give you a few % :) Thanks for the great video!

Thank you, thank you, for taking time to explain the little things you do on a daily basis

Family, Home & Play...I like that very much, thanks for taking the time Adam, Sweet

Thanks for the hose trick. I've used large rubber stoppers for small thin wall tube, but never had anything for larger diams. I'll definitely use this. Thanks!

You don't realize how much you need a belt sander till you get one!

I wish I had known about the hose trick! I tried a number of other hair brained things to reduce ringing on large thin walled stock over the years. Thanks Adam and best wishes!

Another Great show Adam. Really enjoyed it! Thanks, Jon

Adam, thanks for the lesson regarding tail stock alignments, great job as a teacher! That's a very nice Wilton sander, a great purchase! I'm sure you'll be very happy with it. ....13

At 18:00-20:00 - You "take half" when you are cutting a test bar and measuring the diameter. When indicating the identical diameters, you adjust by the full amount. (Still, sneaking up on it is the right approach.) As you (and other commenters) say, wear (wear on the carriage ways and the tailstock ways, and on the base of the tailstock) as well as spindle misalignment, can complicate testing and getting everything right.

This method is fine theoretically but when you machine a work piece it does not always machine parallel.I prefer to take a cut between centers and measure and adjust because it gives true cutting conditions.You can get it perfect with a dial gauge but when machining it can change due to tool pressure,quill clearance,wear and tear.

tip: sometimes when you have buzz seemingly coming from nowhere, it's your cord crossing something (monitor, machines, lights) that causes interference.

The ways in which you compensate for the low tailstock on the Monarch would make some good video fodder. I don't remember you detailing that before. We do love the irritatingly fiddly stuff the most, after all. Also, I hope you often keep telling us the stories of all the various personally-acquired tools you use in your videos (no matter how small), specifically as it relates to your memories and emotions as a machinist from a machinist family. Watching your shop gradually become it's own character in your video series is really satisfying for a layman.

I'm glad I have came across ur channel Adam been watching u for about a yr now I like it how u explain on everything a person like me that don't no anything on what u do so u explain stuff for people like me and others to understand what ur doing keep up the great videos and love ur BBQ parts to and ur girl/wife/ step kids r very lucky to have u in there lives but I do enjoy ur videos

These tests take time to get right. I use a similar setup to test the difference between the headstock centre ht and the tailstock. To eliminate inaccuracy in the headstock sleeves I just turn up a bar in the chuck. Great video. No problem with the sound. Thanks for your time. 👍 🔨 🔩 🔧.

I always find your videos to be one of the best in terms of audio and visual quality, I can say I haven't noticed anything that distracts from your content. just keep doing what your doing, big thumbs up from across the pond.

Thanks Adam, it is great for everyone that your passions intersect and provide us all with such wonderful entertainment and education. Have a good Sunday, and a mellow week at work, Aloha...Chuck

Good video. A buddy has the same Wilton belt sander and its taken a lot of abuse, good machine, the only issue he's had in eight(?)yrs is the top bearings, no fault of the machine just a lit of hard work and they're common size and easy to change. Good luck with it. Don't worry about your social position you've got a lot of friends, watching your videos feels like we're in the shop with you.

I find the problem is the wear of the ways is a lot more pronounced close to the headstock (where you do most of the work) and less on the other end. So if you move the tailstock close to the headstock, you get a lot of vertical center offset but the offset may be a lot lower with the tailstock on the other end of the ways.

Thanks Adam! I bought myself one of the EDGE alignment bars today.

Hey there Adam, another fine SNS. Regarding tail stock centering, I always use a Blake Coax indicator held in a collet chuck with the probe resting directly on the taper of the tailstock. Works pretty good with no need to buy new tools. That is a wicked nice belt sander! Now all you need is a stack of belts in different grits. Good belts are worth the money.

I don't mind learning a little something everyday... Thanks Adam

Seems like that test bar would be much better if it had a nice gentle chamfer onto the ground diameter at either end. You can see that the end at the headstock kept moving around meaning that the indicator was getting bumped every time you came on and off the register.

In addition to other folks' mention of the fluorescent lights, it may be worth filming a couple hundred yards from the shop and house as a test to eliminate all noise sources originating from inside buildings.

A great idea to damping with the hose. When we design substations that require aluminum pipe for bus , we place 795 MCM conductor lengthwise in the tubes to dampen against wind induced oscillations.

Watched your shop videos for about 2 years on a Sunday with my morning coffee. Look forward to them every week. I am retiring soon and intend to do metalwork projects to keep me occupied. By the way you need a new trailer deck

I love that EDGE tool , Very cool ! Great little belt sander Adam . Thanks for the SNS .. Thumbs up !!

Great SNS--Thanks! Enjoy that sander. The shop keeps looking better and better. Remember when you first moved in there? Wow, what a difference.

Nice newer Wilton u got there man. Yup sure do appreciate u making the vids u do buddy, thanx

Your videos are great, I learn a lot and I look forward to every video.

Man, that Wilton was a super find. NIce.

That hose trick is genius!!!

Ran a K&T years ago just like that. My boss at the time adapted insert head style milling heads on it and I used to use it to square up blocks of material.

..Ever since I was in High School Machine Shop in early 1960's....the precision ground round bar has been the recommended way to check the headstock/tailstock centers....

Great video Adam! I've been eyeing that alignment bar from Edge to check my lathe as well. Looks like a great tool. Congrats as well on the belt sander! I know one of us would find you something worthwhile! She looks and runs great! Thanks again for the video buddy!

Hi Adam and thanks for all your great videos which I enjoy a lot. I hope therefore you won’t mind me pointing out an error in your instructions for using a tailstock alignment bar. You don’t use half the indicated offset, but all of it. It’s when you check tailstock alignment by turning a piece of material and comparing sizes at either end that you use half the difference, because you are measuring DIAMETERS and you want to move the tailstock by the difference in RADIUS, which is half the diameter. But when you use an adjustment bar, you measure the differences in radius directly and therefore shouldn’t divide further.

hello Adam! I got to know your channel from Tom Lipton's "oxtool" channel. I've subscribed just about a week and I'm loving it. I'm a automotive technician from Brazil and I really can get some relax from the shop by looking the magnificient work of machinists like you and Tom, Keith Rucker, Keith Fenner, Mr. Pete and so on... I love to watch you guys working in this level of precision and perfection. Anyway, I'm glad to reach you and I'm really enjoying your videos. I guess you're a a lot like me, a lone guy, always in the shop, always playing around with big toys (cars in my case, heavy machinery in yours). About the static we've been hearing, try to turn off your lights for a quick test. I tell you, these flourescent stuff can really interfere. In my case, I can always SEE IT in the scope screen. Last but not least, I'm crazy about this song of the beggining and the end of this video. Would be so kind and provide me the name so I can hear it? As the guy from the mail said: I don't know how do you find time to do the videos, but I'm really grateful you do. Sorry for my poor english. I really wish you all the best! Bruno.

Hey Adam great find on your new sander I have been looking for one like that also!

you also can fill thin-walled rubber hose with sand or small lead shot for even better vibration reduction.

Something simple you can do to your computer is run Ccleaner on it, simply clears junk files that the computer makes over time and fixes little glitches that pile up and slow down performance, been using it for 2 years now and it helps alot.

A quick and easy way to make covers for outdoor equipment is to use vinyl pan liner. Get itin the tile supply section by the foot. Use aluminum angle stock for a frame. Rivet and/or silicone to cement the vinyl to the aluminum. It is heavy enough that the wind can't blow it away. Very durable.

My battery charger for my cordless tools is a huge RF interference machine, even if it isn't charging a battery I find that if I get near the charger it messes up my mic. Might check to see if you have any close by.

That's a fine sander man, I'm sure it will suit you well. I like that vertical orientation, mine is like that, I think it's a lot more useful.

The Edge alignment tool. I used to grab a hunk of Cole roll about the tight length and center both ends. If the was a little TIR I'd roll it around to the mid point and work from there. I liked your remarks how machine wear affect the use of an alignment bar, tailstock wear etc. Very to the point. Perfect setting at one point doesn't necessarily result in perfect settings elsewhere in a machine tools working envelope. You do have to carry a map of the machine's axis geometry in your head. Wilton sander, I see from the polish on tour camera slug where the first inch of the platen above the work table is worn by the back side of the belt - backing up where thinner work is usually edge sanded. The platen is usually cast iron no harder than the rest of the machine. A sander platen is a continuing point of maintenence. I've often thought after the platen has been faced back a couple of time whether a hardened D-2 tool steel liner scabbed on the platen would give the sander greater platen maintenance intervals.

the Wilton is sharp,keep em comin

Thanks Adam for the Edge link and edgesummer Discount! Love the work man. -Tom

Very well taught! Thanks.

Great looking hydraulic rods!

Hi Adam I like to put the indicator on top of the test bar to find out how low the tailstock is. If you are low you can split the tailstock and use shim stock to raise the tail stock back up. But If you are down 10 ths. use 10 ths. shim to bring it back up and then recheck the tail stock on the side again , the Edge tool looks very good I made one from chrome shaft Thanks

I love this work

Adam, I've run into this a few times over the years with machines lacking power check to see if they're wired to the right voltage. i have a jet table saw that came with a 110v cord and it was wired for 220. my jet sander like yours wouldn't start, ended up being a centrifugal switch in the motor that burns up. I love your videos man, makes me miss manual machines, I'm at a cnc exclusive shop now

Yaaay its A.B.O.M (Absolute best of machining) time again! - Edit: do you get the hissing sound while having the camera attached to the power pack? If so try wrapping the USB/Power cable around a ferrite core, might help...

I haven't heard any noise at all. The audio is excellent. Hey what do I know. Great video as always.

Static from the electronic field from the heavy equipment my friend 👍

Brother you awesome. Love watching you, this old Tony, mr.pete22 and some others. Wish I had half the knowledge you guys have. My 3n1 in like a tinker toy to what y'all do.

Adam, The static might be an electronic "hum" from the shop fan motor. Some times a motor will create "noise" that gets picked up electronically..but not audible to humans. The shop lighting might be a cause too as florescent lights are noisy too. Regards, Eric

De-Oxit is a 'contact improving' product. It works very well.

Great video Adam you mentioned your carbide sharpener think that would be a interesting subject to go over in a video thanks for the videos

It's funny, I was just thinking about making a tool like that tail-stock alignment bar the other day, then I see this video in my recommended list.

Your audio problem could be RFI, maybe sometime your close to a device that produce Radio Frequency Interference like a dimmable LED light or pretty much any device that have a switching power supply. so if you do not find problems in the mic system and computer, maybe take a look at the location of the mic receiver when the trouble happen. Thanks for all your great videos!

old wilton is some good stuff 6x48 is a good size hard to over heat the belt rock solid belt grinder

Having all your grinders at one station in the shop is a great idea Adam. Most all the grinding dust will accumulate in that one area, but a certain amount will find its way into every nook and cranny in the shop. Have you given any thought as to a dust evacuation system? Like utilizing your welder smoke sucker? Or the new vacuum? Jack did a bang up job. Cheers.

Static? I just figured there was a waterfall right behind the shop. The videos were so peaceful when I thought that was the case.

Thank you for the code to edge.

Hi Adam,let me say that the long belt sander( 32:00 ) is for wood sanding,like chair legs.If I use for steel ,the belt breaks very easily.I replaced the stand that was very weak.I´m suscribed and belled to your chanel.Thank you.

Thanks for the vid. Looks like your trailer could use some new planking.

Hey Adam, great video, definitely need to check my tailstock alignment on my lathe. I restored a 6x48 1940's Delta belt sander a few years back, once I was done it was so well balanced I could rest a penny on its side during start up on the machine! Wilton makes some great tools, would like to see if it will pass the penny test?

Adam, 2 thoughts on the Tailstock alignment bar section: You want to use the dead center with the carbide insert on the tailstock side when doing actual turning this way, there is no rotation between center and tool on the headstock side, so basically no wear, but a lot of on the tailstock side. And you do not have to divide the difference between the readings by half, you can basically correct the tailstock reading to the headstock reading as the point of rotation is right at the headstock end, so the movement there is minimal, a little bit because of the diameter. I ususally correct it to up to few 1/100 mm (yes, sorry, metric guy ;) ) of the headstock reading, check again and correct the last bit.

3:45 Stopping the noise is best, of course. To get rid of anything else, you can use Audacity (free real good audio editor) to get rid of that hiss and other background noises. Start recording 10 to 30 seconds early, that is your room noize sample. The use the noise removal tool (several good tutorials out there) to sample that noise, then select the whole recording and select noise removal again. Should work good on your audio since the noise is higher pitched and you are not.

I love those old ads, a 1931 South Bend 16" lathe for $598. What a deal, but that figures out to over $10,100 in 2019.

Those old ads, way cool. We have a similar wilton belt sander, works well. Your audio issues are probably from your phone or your computer's wi-fi.

Amazing how accurately you can square up these machines. I agree with static issue, you might need a ferrous filter. Fluorescent transformers, big electric motors.... I'll send you one. I got about 50 of them kicking around here. Ship you one Monday.

thank you

Great video Adam as always , I was just wondering if you could show some off centre tail stock taper turning ? I never seen it but sounds kinda cool . Keep the videos coming and thank you for your time .

Don't get burnt out on the videos adam. Sounds like you're getting a little anxious.

I don´t think you should take half the distance. If anything, you need to take a little more than the full distance. When you adjust the tail, the head also moves ever so slightly towards you.

Nice machine Adam

598.00 for a 16" SouthBend- that was the same price for an average new car in 1931. The average price for a family car today is 33,000.00 but you can buy a 16" lathe for 4500.00.

i just bought the pro lathe gauge with your coupon code. thanks for the vids thanks for the code.

Their gear is good!

Don't get me lying to you but I think that as far as your cable for your mic and stuff goes the thicker the insulation the better because it shields it from outside interference. How much difference it makes I don't know but I know it makes a considerable difference with auxiliary cables playing audio.

Thanks for the video, good info as always. It occurs to me that given the wear in the machine as you stated, you have in fact only made an adjustment for the lathe to be a half-thousandth out at 12 inches. Wouldn't you also need to test the alignment of the tail stock at various points over its full length of travel, or at least over the length where the major of work is performed? Once the test has been made across its full length of travel (or most used), the point where it shows the greatest amount of misalignment is where the adjustment should be made from. Edge should make a kit where there are various lengths of Alignment Bars ay :) Just putting it out there. Again, love the video's, keep'm comin !

Who knew Hammacher Schlemmer sold machine tools! Growing up in 1950s Connecticut Hammacher Schlemmer was known as a high end department store where you could get anything, but I never imagined milling cutters. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hammacher_Schlemmer

could a dial test indicator be used to align the tailstock. if I turned a bit of steel and then found the high spot with the indicator. I could record the x position and without moving the indicator move the carraige over to the centre and find the high spot, if aligned right both x readings along the high spots would be the same. would this work?

Wow, that Southbend lathe from 1931 was super expensive! According to one inflation calculator, $600 in 1931 is like $9450 today!

I have wanted to see the EDGE technology alignment tool, been considering the purchase - thanks!

Another possibility for the noise source is the fluorescent lights. I get some static from my fluorescent lights in the basement in my sound system in the livingroom on the first floor of my house. The static goes away when I turn the lights off.

Nice job

Hi Adam What distance from an abrasive tool is safe, in order to not contaminate the ways and other moving parts of lathes, etc? Obviously a separate room is best, but I was wondering if there is some sort of guideline.

Avon thanks for the video. Just wanted to say that Hammacher Schlemmer still exists, but sorry to say they don’t sell milling cutters anymore. You can find them online and they do have a mail order catalog.

Adam great job with the indicating. if you're working with a taper as every lathe will why not check the level of the machine? surely the bed could be out of alignment. I know starret makes some precision levels

Could you weld some outriggers on the horizontal belt sander? Thanks for a great instructional video, Greg.

On your long sander for headers that you say doesn't have much power....... I think your start capacitor may be weak or bad. If you have a friend in the AC industry they can check your caps.