Hi Sam just a quick tip for meshing gears that I've used for years in fine engineering work. A single cigarette paper between the gears when assembling the drive train gives perfect clearance with minimum backlash
@@keithg1xfl I doubt loo roll paper would be any use - the single sheet stuff might be if it is still available (it also made excellent tracing paper...). I might be imagining it but don't some people say the foil wrap off chewing gum is right for gear clearances? I'd imagine that would be a lot thicker than cigarette paper but I'm not sure.
@@gagatube you can purchase cigarette rolling paper from any tobacconist without actually purchasing the tobacco. The cigarette paper is processed so it is much more malleable and easy to fit around the drive teeth
I know, the cigarette paper trick goes way back! To date, I have never found a worm that was compatible with the gears, so have had to build new gear boxes to match. Also, those nylon worms and gears are brilliant as I recently scratch-built new EM bogies with (central motor and brass universal drives onto Gibson coach wheels) with those nylon worms and gears for all four axles, to go under a second-hand Lima GW Express parcels diesel body.
And you can even add a flywheel, a great idea, especially with a low inertia motor like a coreless one. Splendid idea to ressucitate a shelf queen, I buy it with a 3D printer ! That's a great slap in the face of the manufacturers too : you can have better geared engines with slower motors and flywheel on a shoestring. I pay the greatest attention to your experiments with 3D printers. My forthcoming PLM 3D printed engines would benefit from this. An Idea I have : get a complete rodding with laser cut brass sheets... An idea for you ?
Hey Sam. as someone who printed some stuff myself, I would like to kindly ask you to release your designs individually. I saw you have a short and tall base variant, it would be nice of you to release each base and the top part all individually. I know, it is 3 files then, but it would be nicer if someone needs a spare and not print a whole new adapter. I'm not angry, I'm always thankful for everyone putting in thought and work on these little things.
Hello 'Sam's Trains', I have followed your vlogs for a few years, my word you are a clever 'chap', great to see these older trains coming back to life, good to watch . regards, RichardA.
I've used these (13.5k) motors in my P4 Metropolitan locos, and can confirm they really need a small flywheel, and running-in before they crawl properly. Hadn't thought of using them as replacements in RTR models. Well done.
This is actually something I really needed to hear. I have this dirt cheap (probably cost like $30 for the set) loco that had a dead motor in it and it's perfect for me to test this out on. I needed something small to try to learn how to create my own 3d parts and I think this is perfect. Well done Sam and I'm glad to see you've taken to 3d printing.
@@macnavi There's "making money" and then there's "extortion"... or just plain old "gouging". Bachmann designed things such that you had to go through them for replacement motors without major alteration work, and then charge significantly more than the value of the product (which they are already masters at for all their products).
I've seen those motors advertised for a few years now, and have often wondered. I tried fitting a Pendolino 5-pole, or Castle - forget which - motor to replace the hopelessly performing Bachmann Jubilee I had at the time ... My problem is I don't have a 3D printer, but it NEARLY worked, with a motor at least twice as good ... would have been a nice fix! Great that you're giving the Community additional ideas Sam. Thanks for sharing. Al.
Nice work Sam, Iv'e done something similar for my Triang Jinty and a old pocket rocket 0-4-0 Blue '7178' getting hold of the motors here in Candida is near to impossible and shipping costs from England are more than the hornby/Triang motors, so I used a mini 6 pole motor yes 6 pole from AliExpress for $5 CND about £3. They work better than ever, Its slowed down the 0-4-0 and now can crawl, both loco are great shunters and seem to have a realistic top speed at about 10 volts. I look forward to seeing more motor swaps.
I often bought broken / in disrepair stuff from train Star wars and antique stores and train shows whenever I was a child with my grandparents in order to save money it was also fun for me to create Frankenstein locomotives using various different parts that I had it really did put me to the test to see what I could build and put together with my limited resources and knowledge
Great video once again! I was thinking….. you could create a 3d printed object that fits into the tender of the 9f that many suffer from mazak rot and disintegrate. You could make it so that it clips into place (like the old ringfield enclosure) whilst allowing it to hold the electrical pickups and the wheel axels. This would help a lot of people such as myself whom have a dead 9f due to the tender ringfield enclosure turning to dust 😁
Meanwhile at Bachmann headquarters the R&D department are having a meeting. "We have news that someone has figured out how to repair and improve our locomotives without using our parts. We need to download those files and make the parts and replacement motor more expensive". Good idea Sam, it's a shame that there aren't any small metal milling machines to create a metal worm drive. It seems 3D printing upgrades is becoming a popular idea now as Peter's Spares does upgraded gears for old Lima motors and detail parts for locomotives. They have also done some upgraded non traction tyre wheel sets for the old Lima and Hornby DMU's and diesel/electric locomotives.
Brilliant Sam, it's about time somebody showed these people we are not all cash cows. No doubt the rivet counters will have something to say. Keep up the great work. Frank
I've been working on my own motor housings for the Bachmann thomas range for a while now. Recently made one for Edward, also made one for toby. Then I've also designed some for Thomas and Percy. I plan on redesigning Thomas, and Percy was designed for just the chassis without the top. All excluding the gearing for the eyes. I can share the finished design with you if you want to try them out. Though they use the Bachmann motors, you can always design another fitting to work with the motor you used here.
@@SamsTrains i'd imagine that the rotational mass of the motor is so low that even a 3d printed flywheel printed at 100% infill would yield beneficial results!
Great idea. This is the future for giving old locos a new lease of life when new models are so expensive. I'm looking forward to the time when I can buy adaptor cradles that allow you to replace x03 and X04 motors with coreless or 5 pole motors.
@@fenman1954 I do appreciate that some are still wonderful runners, but the ones I have, though, I have cleaned them and oiled them and replaced the I magnets and done all I can to make them serviceable, they are not good runners at all. As you cannot buy new ones there are no guarantees second hand replacements will be any better; they could even be worse. I'd like to give these locos a new lease of life.
Love this ive got a 5 pack of these with the one sided 28000 rpm option from either ebay or aliexpress which was under 10 dollars usd. Good to see how they run! I wonder if a larger diameter worm gear would slow it enough to factory crawl speeds and smooth out the action abit.
A genuine mastermind at work, brilliant. As many have commented previously, but indeed even adding a flywheel could perhaps be done. We are also wondering if even a brass worm drive could be found. Next… knock, knock, “We are lawyers of Bachmann…” Lol, just joking. A genius solution Sam :)
Hi Sam in helpfull response to those who have requested adapters for X04 type motors replacements can be found in rummage boxes at swapmeets and a full refurb by Scalespeed who do a very good job.On the Bachman motor issue I have remotored several non split chassis locos with the appropriate Mashima 16xx series motors resulting in vastly improved performance only the removal of the original worm proving difficult but worthwhile.
Love the look of this, Were you going to post a link to the motor you used? I had a quick look on Amazon and most of the motors I saw seemed to be about 4.5V, as a DC Model railway transformer goes up to 12V, won't that fry the motor pretty fast?
Really interesting little project 👍 - if you just chose fairly cheap motors for you demo here, and they were pretty servicable, i wonder if there are better motors available that would be a proper "hardware upgrade"? Another thing that i thought was you seem to suddenly have space to pop in a tasty little flywheel (assuming you can buy these off the shelf?) The possibilities are endless! 😀
Great tutorial to resurrect dead Bach. locos. Some 'Master' here calls you 'our Robin Hood' and I join his comment ! Thanks for sharing this interesting video Sam.
thats the differance between a model mechanic and a model engineer engineer makes its so the object works the mechanic just fits bits you buy from stock shops well done sam for this 1
There used to be a motor called a Romford Bulldog, which was a 5 pole drop in replacement for the X.03/4. If only they were still available, and something similar for Bachmann models too of course.
Hi Sam. I've got a challenge. How about a locomotive with an n20 geared motor? You can get a 12v one off Ebay really cheap with a 1200rpm maximum speed, but it has a tonne of torque because of the super low gearing. Might make a really awesome shunter, would also probably be super loud though.
The issue about the coreles motors is that they are not always friendly with decoders. I fried a couple of decoders trying to have a Japanese Tsugawa Yokou N scale chassis with a coreles motor run on DCC, I even used ESU decoders that were recomended for coreless and probably ran fine with larger coreless motors.
If the motor ever dies on my B-mann 9F, H1, or Super D, then I will definitely keep this replacement in mind. I've had the 9F apart to remove a blown capacitor and offered up some spare HO motors I have on hand (Bachmann 5-pole, Kato, Atlas, Canon) but all are too big. The 9F itself has a mounting cradle made completely of metal so the 3d-printed coreless mount might not work in this case. Another option I've considered is the 5-pole motor found in Atlas' N-scale diesels. They are very high quality and I've found an eBay seller that has them for cheap.
Apologies if thyis had already been pointed out, but coreless motors should not cog due to their internal design. On your Patriot, I thought the worm was running well out of true; if you could re-use the Bachmann worm by sleeving the motor shaft, I would think you would have a winner. A ll very interesting and impressive. Thank you.
If you want to improve crawl why not try a gearhead motor? You can get tiny ones not much longer than this motor. This would also improve the torque that was lost by using a smaller motor diameter. Great that you are sharing the files Sam. This is how the 3d community has worked over the years. Cheers Gary
i replaced the n gauge original motors by coreless 7 mm diameter motors in dapol steam locos.it is an easy job because the motors are in the tender.no need to dismantle the loco.result:best quiet performance and even better enough space left to install a zimo sound decoder + sugar cube speaker.now i have the amazing reality operating fun.
haha thanks so much! The trouble is space - the original motors are more or less an exact fit into a Bachmann body... and those motors are tall and thin... so picking something tiny increases compatibility across different models! Thanks for watching, Sam :)
I would not be tempted to rush off and make this conversion until I'd seen it pull a train for several minutes. The current it will need to pull under load is much higher than a light loco and the subsequent heat might fry it.
Maybe print the mount a bit thicker than needed and then sand it down so you can get a perfect gear mesh (which may vary engine to engine)? Also, my (ebay purchased) non-DCC Bachmann steam loco had a Mabuchi FK-130SH motor in it, which can be found easily and very cheap. I just ordered one to replace the one that burned out. Hopefully the brass worm gear will come off (it is larger, 12 mm diam, 10 mm long and 2 mm shaft)
Thanks Sam. You are making some very interesting videos with your 3D printing and painting experiments. Of course, your loco and trainset reviews are also great. I have N scale, but I am thinking of trying the Hornby HM6000 bluetooth controller which seems very interesting. I believe it should work with my N scale which is a 12V DC system. I will let you know. Cheers from Canada :-)
Thanks James! Though some of the Thomas models do use these motors, they're mounted quite differently... but sure, some kind of adapter could probably be made for those too! :D Thanks for watching, Sam :)
So Sam's rebuilds of locomotives (well model locos anyways). I am very glad that such solutions are presented for community i would suggest (in order to both dodge any copyright issues and to advertise your channel to call it something like Sam'sTrains replacement model H series?). But yeah right to repair at its best,, proprietary engine holders can not hold back a man with 3d printer .)
Great video Sam, I wonder if it would be possible to adapt a motor similar to this to get an old Triang 156 emu working again with the use of a worm drive on each end of the drive shaft?
Sam, this is an excellent fix, well done! - Especially with your motor adapter and because you gave a source for the worm gears and even the screws needed! 😃 The only potential downside I could see is the longevity of the motor, particularly since it is completely enclosed and covered by the adapter so there is no chance of cooling. But then that design may not need any... only time and lots of usage will tell. ⏳
hi sam. i missed watching your review about the new rebuilt hush hush on the day. a great model for the price you paid for it. but i intend to stick to my guns and not buy models with out of this world prices. true i am missing out on new models. another great fix it cheap video... no whirring buzzing or squeaky noises ... would be a great fix even for new bachmann models which lack the umph in torque.
2 Questions: 1. Could you try and experiment with fitting the cheap, Hornby style £2 motors in a Bachmann loco? 2. Does this mod work on Bachmann Thomas models. I have no experience with their mechanisms but I know they fail a lot.
It looks as if it should be possible to create the new motor cradle so that it fits inside the bachmann cradle without snipping. Perhaps you could try this when you make the height adjustment?
Hmm... Hmm... who is a coreless motors fan now... :-P And after all that bashing... ;-) Seriously, very good job! And thank you for helping so many folks repairing their dead Bachman choo choos!
just as a friendly tip, instead of making someone buy a specific set of screws for a model (the laptop screw kit), you might want to learn how screw standards work and just give measurements like 5mm m3 (5 mm long and 3 mm thick) so its easier for people to get fitting screws.
The crawl was deff worse as you said but it’s been my understanding that coreless motors work better on DCC than on DC. Prob wrong as only been back to this hobby for a little over a year now. Great video though. Second hand Bachmann locos just got a whole lot better value in my eyes.
Decent bit of work there Sam seems to work great, I must say though the only bachmann motor I have had to replace is the virgin voyager and when I bought the motor I got 2 of them for a decent price, I have never had to change a bachmann steam locomotive motor.
A note on the gear module, for those that don't know the gear module is a number that is used to mathematically describe the shape of the gear teeth. All that you really need to know here is that gears need to have the same module number to work together properly.
@@SamsTrains The module of the gear is the numerical inverse of the pitch of the gear. Its just that the module is mostly used on metric gears and the pitch is used for gears in inches. Both module and pitch are expressions of the same tooth count to pitch diameter ratio. This ratio is then used to plot the involute curve of the gear tooth itself. Yes, this is more complicated than it really needs to be.
Did you compare the pulling power of the Bachmann 3 pole and those coreless motors? I've got a couple of old Bachmanns that struggle to pull more than 4 coaches. Maybe they are on the way out already. I'll be getting a few motors regardless. Thanks for the info and the basic adapter.👍
Worm gears have a fixed ratio, it's the cog they work on that determines the ratio. For the worm side it's one tooth per revolution of the worm gear. So unless Sam can wedge a bigger gear into the model he can't change the gear ratio. The slower motors are the only way to change the speed, sadly.
@@mozismobile To clarify - A worm can have a number of 'starts' which determines the gear ratio in isolation to the meshing gear; whilst single start worms are by far the most common and I therefore agree with you from a simplistic purchasing viewpoint, worms definitely can provide different gearing in the same space by having more 'starts'. In this case though, more starts would increase the speed!
Great video will you be repairing your Bachman Emily with one of these motors.? Thanks to you I can now repair most of my old Bachman engines . Your a good man Sam.
Sadly not - the Bachmann Emily uses a different kind of motor (even smaller) but hopefully there are a good number of locos that can be fixed this way! :D Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Hey Sam, you’ve said in some of your reviews of more expensive models that the gearing is wrong and they run too fast (some of this years Bachman models come to mind). Could you 3D print new gears to “fix” these models (of course they shouldn’t need to be fixed with the price being charged!).
I was just wondering if you could add a flywheel to the other end of the shaft. Maybe resin some washers together or file down a worm gear to give you a central core to affix washers to.
You need inertial mass anywhere on the gear train to improve performance. These motors are so low torque a flywheel would not be effective. It would be better to add more mass to a downstream larger gear.
Is there a chance you could make up a train and do a continuous run just to see if there's any problems after a period of time? This all looks very promising, well done!
Well the B12 and N2 aren’t Bachmann locos - unfortunately this will only work with certain Bachmann steamers... but you could use same the idea for almost anything!
i wonder if the little n20 geared motors would be any good for moving the gear train on one of these locomotives? the n20 motors are used quite a lot in small robots and has great starting torque even with the faster motor and the gears are metal so they won't wear out as fast as the plastic gears
