Say THIS to people who tell you not to "diagnose" narcissists 

Well yes & likewise its senseless to cause division & - complications - obstacles by becoming pre-occupied with winning arguments by citing mental health diagnosis. Yes theres no shortage of monetiser manipulators on YT who are NOT GOING TO GET PAID if YOU use sense. 'Sense' here defined as having a grip on ones circumstances, as opposed to being clueless & needing do a kook and bent psychological assessment on any familty member ot friend who upsets. NPD as discussed ( from what i have seen ) is not much more that a crash course in becoming a sociopath so thats its influencer becomes affluent from it.

Yes 💯 and once you see it it is so obvious and you can't unsee it😅 I've become so good at reading people over the years of abuse. People think I'm too blunt. No I'm real and speak truth. There is a difference! I just won't take anymore abuse or put up with other humans bs besides my hubby and daughter lmaooo

limiting it to a family is unfair. your relatives can pick up the sick traits that exist is a community by living there for decades.. the more diverse the community the less likely these sick traits take hold over the social atmosphere.

it’s really about how you feel in any kind of relationship.

right

I love this.

One must take care of one-self first, as a wreck you can hardly help anyone ..

If their selfishness and predatory behaviors work for them, what motivation do they have to change?

@Rose1 Exactly

@@Rose19695we will never know and we don’t need to know. Get to know yourself and learn how to enforce your boundaries, pretty soon you’ll get to know others in seconds.

True….I never new such awful people existed until I met one!

@@mindyl5990 yeah and the level of gaslighting is amazing, you could play a video of them doing something and they'll still lie to your face. Can you imagine how crazymaking Narcissists were before cameras?!

Absolutely! Facts and strategies for recognizing narcissistic abuse should be taught in all schools starting in 6th grade and up in Health class!! Awareness Saves Lives!!

Actually, in high school and college psychology courses we learned about it. However we didn't have the best examples of it in a classroom setting to know what we were reading about. 🤦🏿‍♀️

I agree that what healthy and unhealthy behavior should be taught in schools. So many kids grow up in unhealthy abusive households and don't know that it's not normal until they get older. By then they suffered untold amount of damage to their psyche sadly.

Exactly! 👍🏼💕

Absolutely. Call it whatever you like. A label does not change evil intention.

She would have done better to say, "Personality (disorder) is not an insanity defense," which is literally true. Otherwise we would have to overturn the convictions of 90% of the inmates in maximum security prisons. Narcissists know the difference between right and wrong. They choose to do wrong.

@@joeanonymous1834 great point. This is another reason why removing these demons and healing are absolutely necessary. Many of our fellow survivors are in prison too. They lost their minds and took matters in their own hands as a direct result of reactive abuse.

@@Richard-vq7ud Narcissism and anti-social personality are close cousins. Narcissists are generally smarter and therefore avoid prison. Neither are psychotic. Both make a choice.

You may misunderstand. Let this information empower you. You have every right and ability to access narcissistic traits. Ppl saying you can’t diagnose should mean less to you now as diagnosing the personality disorder is no longer the bar for applying a meaningful definition to them. Identifying narcissist behavior and acting appropriately is all the justification you need and you can laugh at anyone that accuses you of diagnosing someone.

​@@agrandcanyonoffucksgiven2776sobi can identify borderline, antisocial and histriionc behavior in someone?

Just say that they are in the cluster B. Problem solved. A lot of them are mix and match anyways, meaning co-morbid or one with traits of many others.

Yes, if someone is abusive, they're abusive. No reason to put up with abuse.

It is a disorder, the diagnostic criteria is just insufficient and places too much power in the hands of the perpetrator. Imagine they did this with a disease like cancer.

People with a mental illness are still accountable for their own behavior. A mental illness is an explanation. It is not an excuse.

Please, I don’t even bother trying to explain. Unless you’ve experienced it you’ll never understand.

Wow. That's awful. At the end of the day, they know what they're doing. It's a personality disorder vs mental illness. Abuse is abuse and we don't deserve to be abused.

Sounds like those people online were hunting for someone to abuse and accuse coz maybe in real life their own supply had dried up 🤔🙄. Imagine how many narcissists are online just like a predator, hunting waiting for an opportunity to do exactly as you described, 😳. What you say is valid. Abuse is abuse regardless of the label or regardless of how anyone may twist it around because it’s usually to serve their own perverted agenda . Take care and staying true to yourself is your protection. Narcissists are not only not true to themselves but their whole toxic existence is a falsehood a facade, inauthenticity 101. Your authenticity is what they fear.

@@genevalawrence801 a diagnosed mental illness can definitely be excusable if it’s severe and untreated. That’s the problem with this Narcissism trend. You can’t wrapped the human mind in a neat little bow so you can easy state what’s right or wrong, no matter how many people wish they could.

Maybe it would heal you. Write. Give it a try.

It's good the clergy recognized you were not the problem. And I'm sorry for ruining the 69 likes. 😊

Omg what a nightmare but thank goodness the clergy saw right through your mother and identified the true demons ..

My sister did something similar where she was trying to convince me to “talk to someone”, and she even convinced my mother. Well, since I stopped speaking to my sister, the problem resolved itself. 😐

​@@CG-wl3cq i feel this! My mother called the police on me after a fight saying she was scared of me and that i threatened to hurt her... I was driven to a mental health clinic and evaluated and when the professionals came, they laughed at my dad. Sadly i dont remember what they said to him, but it wasn't nice

BEST answer.

Lucky!There definitely ARE full-blown narcissists out there & it IS important to know what you're 👀 at when you're dealing with them because the dysfunction is very severe & abuse is built into NPD essentially by design.They're NOT anywhere near the realm of normality.I hope you went no-contact & never 👀 back.I'm guessing they hated your therapist because they didn't make your narc parent's screwy behaviors 👀 too good when they talked to you about it during therapy.

@@malwads1836 thank you. I didn’t understand narcissism at first so I tried to stay in touch. Dr Ramani and other videos finally helped me get it. It still seems unreal - mom is basically a sociopath who runs the family on fear, like the mafia. All extended family were turned against me with lies. The abuse escalated to physical abuse & endangering my health. I haven’t had contact since 2016. My father died in 2020 and my mother continues to harass me by email. My mother stole all the money left to me by my grandmother. I haven’t gotten courage to go to court. I’m disabled and seriously struggling with a botched surgery. I have them all blocked. I fear them but I’m trying to learn to feel safe anyway. It’s been shocking bc they are all communal narcissists, religious, paragons of virtue in the community. Behind closed doors, they are self righteous bullies & vicious psychological terrorists.

lol, they arnt fun but they make good stories

Lol

I felt this comment 100%!

Excellent summary!

Que the applause 👏 👏👏👏 standing ovation

Well said

But it does take ongoing efforts to build self-awareness and self education.

@@_helmiExactly, sometimes you just don’t know anything about narcissism and have been conditioned to ignore your gut feeling 🙁 Takes a lot of trauma to open your eyes sometimes

YES!

My narcissistic sister to me: " So you are that typical arrogant person,you walk at street with that head high up,and don't talk to nobody 🙄 so you think you're special huh?you narcissist!"

Gaslighting, psychological projection.

its scary once I saw the pattern as most mmidwits think there is no difference. Once I saw the pattern I saw it had persisted decades.

Exactly! They will weaponize any word they learn. And if you activate their "shame" reflex, run immediately!! ❤

@NarcSurvivor, Understand..."been there, got the T-shirt"....but surviving 10+yrs of narc abuse, there are no "shoulds"....it's only been radical acceptance 😉 that's really helped me👍...sorry for butting in your comment directed elsewhere but I felt compelled to respond

It absolutely should -- and I think it's our responsibility to keep their attention focused on the abusive behavior. I've actually used that phrase verbatim, broken record style: "I'm focusing on the damage the ABUSIVE BEHAVIOR does"

That's exactly why. Their behavior is more important, and it's under their control. So they have to change the subject to Narcissistic Diagnosis; rather than the bad effects of their habitual helper.

Without a diagnosis they feel normal. Most of them don't want to be good, they just want to feel normally. That's why they don't change, instead trying to gaslight the rest of us. ("Maybe I'm not perfect, BUT...")

Because they do not believe thay have done anything wrong or their behaviours are a big deal. Sure, you can tackle behaviours one by one, explain in painful detail why those behaviours were harmful or hurtful; and hear them make endless justifications, dimiss those alltoguether, or blame you in turn. If they could actually admitt to doing something wrong and be responsible about how their behaviour impacts others; they would not be narcissists.

I think I have a lot narc traits from being raised by a person who had some narc traits and a full on covert narc abuser. It was seeing these traits come out more strongly later in life that scared me into trying to work on myself. I agree there is absolutely a huge difference, but I also think a person ebbs and flows in their life and they have more energy and more stress at different times and personalities can change. Rather than mellowing narcs seem to get more hardened and care less about the mask dropping. I think that's why so many of us are only figuring out about this in our 50s and 60s...the narcs that raised us are now elderly and showing their true colors brighter than ever...

​@cinemaocd1752 I think that is true. My mother was Dx 2018 with NPD & the older she got, the worse she got. Then she passed away being meaner than a snake.

@@mday3821 that's so sad... I'm so sorry

Garden-variety narcissistic is more annoying...But full-blown NPD is very severe dysfunction that causes significant harm both to the narc's life whether they realize it or not & also to anyone near them too🤦‍♀️.Garden-variety narcissistic is an annoying BB gun shooting you in the buns until you walk away but full-blown NPD is a real gun filling you full of bullets until you get the heck away from them.

@@malwads1836 Yes, NPD is very dangerous. My mother Dx NPD. Yikes! She's gone now!!!

I had to focus and recognize the behavior in order to process WHY I was damaged. They go hand in hand.

what if black americans only focused on their damage and not the behavior of their oppressors? palestinians would have been ethnically cleansed if they did what you are advocating.

@@dampergoldenrod4156 Lol, your comparison is, well, different….. but I get it. Let’s say Hitler looks you dead in your face today and extends his hand for a handshake. You’ve already identified the vile human being that he is and know he will never change. You will never win trying to change a BRAIN that is wired differently. What can you do? You do as the initial commenter said ☝️. Recognize what you’re facing and work on how YOU deal with that 💩

We could if our entire system wasn't under the control of psychopaths.

@@reesedaniel5835 when you get into the depth of the pain, when the trauma comes roaring to the surface, there is no question in the feelings that the abuser is evil. It's the most obvious foundational thing, that these harms are evil, that this is morally heinous. And yet, it's like still, even in therapeutic settings its just not nice to admit those truths. "Now now, let's not go too far..." says the therapist who is himself afraid to admit the existence of evil or afraid of the depth of his client's rage and pain. I think that therapists and anyone else who works in this field of support ought to bring that kind of moral weight to it. To name the evil as evil. And to condemn it fully.

^ “it’s not nice”

Bullseye…..

Ak polovich, You are not wrong ! But in society in general, we need to call it something so it can be fixed. All that behavior turns into a pathology. And if the pathological can't change, then that is a diagnosis. They are just plain untreated, and un changed Pathologicals!

Oh that's perfect fit

Im going to borrow that

Me too totally spot on spouse and full time caregiver client they live in their heads

and rest of us are just NPC in their own little mind

@@princessconsuelabanana-ham8004 Yes, still trying to figure out how to explain them, that this world is an online game. There are no NPC in this world.

Wow.

These two had hidden covert personality styles until they were exposed; Joan Crawford vs Ted Bundy !!!

Good call 👍

Well done Julie❤

This part

Rarely do I hear lay people use the term Narcissistic Personality Disorder. Now I do hear and read the term narcissist more frequently now than ever before, and it's about time we start calling these empathy-deficient, racist, misogynistic, classist, admiration-seeking a-holes what they are. That is how trump got voted into office because there are that many narcissists in the world who think just like him and even more shockingly, some of them are people trump wouldn't even allow in his home unless they were there to clean it or maintain it. Churches are full to the brim of these admiration-seeking, gossipy, Christian-in-name-only people.

Thank you for this. My mom has been diagnosed with a NPD, she was a raging alcoholic from the time I was born, and let’s top that off with a hoarder. I had to put my shoes on when I got out of bed. She hoarded cats also. Growing up was so horrifying, I was afraid to let anyone inside. Outside of the home, she was fashionable, nice ( for a while) , does not like people. Just pretends until she cuts them off, including her best friend and her own sister, and has turned my own children into her “ flying monkeys “. I took her into my home. She is 94 and sharp as a tack mentally. And it still goes on. I am super anxious and depressed. I’m going to therapy. I thought since she was falling and when I was 19 I had to quit ngetting hurt, that she would be grateful and start a happy end of life. Instead, I am stuck. Sad. Depressed more than ever, an my anxiety is through the roof. When I was 19, I had to quit nursing school and move out and got a job. What is it, when your mom is abusive, a hoarder, a cat lover and downright nasty to me. And what can I do at this point?

It also makes people not take it seriously when victims ACCURATELY point out a real full-blown narcissist & the very severe harm they cause.

I think there are more undiagnosed than mainstream gives data for. Therapists biggest job is pwNPD.

Actually, that describes Borderline Personality Disorder very well, and I find their own thinking to often epitomize that. Narcissists as well, but if you want a one-line-line phrase that sums up narcissists it's admiration-seekers, not black-and-white thinkers. A narcissist will completely flip their values if someone they "admire" has a difference of opinion, whereas a borderline will often (not always) classify them as evil.

@@le_th_ insightful perspective thank you, I try to Overstand the overlapping Traits with Borderline/Narcissists and appreciate Your Clarification

@@dextermorganbloodspattersp6382 "Overstand" is not really a word. I cringe every time I see it.

@reesedaniel5835 let's explore why that expression would make you Cringe 🕵️ I'm getting pretty good at this Synology Stuff 😁😁

It's maddening because they do so much damage and they get away with it almost always. I think we are mostly here learning to protect ourselves, and to create a path for healing the damage they've caused. There is no justice with a narc and that is a difficult thing to take.

@@cinemaocd1752 Occasionally abusers are brought down through the legal system. Harvey Weinstein comes to mind Another less well known popularly but very interesting case is. Dr. Wilson, now deceased, who formed the Constance Bultman Wilson Center, which was operating in Faribault, Minnesota decades ago. It was a residential high school for mentally ill students. Angie Dickinson and Burt Bacharach sent their daughter there. Dr. Wilson was a very cerebrally intelligent fellow who graduated from Shattuck prep school in Faribault and became a psychiatrist and surgeon. He purchased the site for his center at the top of 14th Street hill in Faribault when the school for younger boys, called St. James, closed. They were bot run by the Episcopal church, pricey residential schools for privileged people. I was raised in Faribault and I made a friend in the late 1970's in AA who had been kicked out of Shattuck and enrolled at the Wilson Center. This friend, F.M., was a highly intelligent bipolar guy and he told me stories about illegal activities being perpetrated upon the residents there at private parties. Through the efforts of my friend and other victimized vulnerable students and over several years, with the help also of some aware and responsible employees of the Wilson Center, a sort of justice came through. Dr. Wilson lost his license to practice medicine in Minnesota. While I never personally met Dr. Wilson, I attended an annual Dana Farnsworth lecture which featured the late Bruno Bettelheim. F.M.'s alarming stories were true. They involved abuses sexwise via drugs, et c. of underaged vulnerable students who had been entrusted by their protectors to pay to live there for their education and help. You can read the legal case online. Dr. Wilson pulled up stakes and moved to California to continue 'working'. I was astonished when I read online recently his obituary. sheer puffery. No mention was made of his losing the right to practice medicine in Minnesota due to his criminal abuses of student's. His obituary makes him sound like the second coming of Jesus. In the laudatory guestbook in memory of him one writer noted that Dr. Wilson really knew how to throw a party! Really. . . I was gobsmacked. Burt and Angie's daughter later committed suicide. I am not a medical professional, but I firmly believe that this much lauded man, was a psychopath. Period.

They aren’t going to admit it. Don’t even waste your vocal chords. You could show them a diagram accompanied with a video and they would still flat out tell you you’re lying, victim shame you or better yet, dismiss you totally. There is a certain disconnect with these ppl. It’s manipulation AT ALL TIMES AND IN ALL FORMS!!! Constant confusion that doesn’t stop…ever. That’s the difference

right?! the premise that someone has to acknowledge that they have a problem in order to diagnosis them with a personality disorder feels profoundly flawed.

right because whatever is wrong, (in their mind) it's never their fault

Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter! Isaiah 5:20

And I say: "If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...it's a frikking DUCK!"😁😆

I married into it and it was hard getting out, but I can never go back to the way things were before.

Good for you! Way to grow!

Well put. I get it. So demonic.

This is what you do do u call them jackass then move on

Just Grade A, A HOLES! That is what we called them back in the day.

👍

Me too. I hope you find healing and self love. My son has ASD and he's so hard on himself. I think he's been mirroring my C-ptsd for a while. You aren't alone in this scary world. Hugs to you. @@jn1211

The last person who casually used the word “narcissist “ around me got their ass handed to them. She didn’t know WHAT she was talking about and I let her know it too. Narcissistic abuse can run very deep and be very complex, that’s why it’s so hurtful. I can’t stand the term being used so loosely.

If you lived with a narcissist, you wouldn’t be allowed to go out drinking cocktails with your friends.

Same as mine

If they match NPD & you've been around them a lot like that...I'm personally not afraid to call a spade a spade.Most narcy types are just garden-variety but some actually ARE full-blown narcissists.

Sounds like my younger brother, the middle of 5. Always wanted to argue, he is always right, and knows everything. Threats his wife like a pack mule, especially when their kids were little. Never helped her with anything. He is 67 now and suffers a brain disorder that will slowly kill him. He still says ugly things to his wife of 46 years and calls her names. 😢 I don't see him often, and he loves it when I come to visit 🤷‍♀️. I don't let him get away with his attitude, and once in a while I have a comeback that stumps him. He loves to play with his grand daughters, and they adore him, so I have some hope there is empathy in that self-centered ❤️ of his. He refuses to believe in the Father God of the Universe and His Son, so...😢 this earth will be the only Heaven he will ever know.

No it probably mean she IS a psychopath; normal people would feel extreme guilty over being a serial killer and wouldn't be a serial killer to begin with. If someone is a serial killer they are by definition a psychopath. I was a therapist for many years and had to diagnose people, learned a lot about psychopaths.

@@egrogan6482 interesting how criterion changes.

@@egrogan6482 Well I guess our govt and Big Pharma are psychopathic serial killers....💉💉💉

THIS. Any one who disputes my data is welcome to spend as much time as they'd like with my narc. I'll wait. They can call me in half a century. :D

Absolutely. Most doctors and therapists are narcs.