That's a nice looking edge. I find it amazing how a AlOx stone with a hard bind plus a pasted strop will leave a shiny edge with a lot of slicing aggression.
I have both those old combo stones and still use them occasionally. I taught my grandson to free hand and gave him a Norton combo and a soft Arkansas, he's doing pretty well with them. Enjoyed the video. Look forward to the next one.
Sounds similar to my starting set. I had a Norton Economy stone, and an Arkansas. I could never get a decent edge on the Norton. I didn't realize that coarse edge was about as good as it got, from that stone. The India was a big upgrade, for my edge quality. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend that to anyone. Pressure can really determine how quickly it cuts too. I should have mentioned that in the vid
This was interesting. I used SiC stones a lot when I was first learning to freehand and wasn't ready to pay 70 bucks for a stone. I already had some stones handed down from my great-grandfather, who was a shoemaker, and after experimenting with them I bought a couple of Nortons and found they were pretty effective. I've since moved on to quality water stones and the feel and experience are really nice, I have to admit. But coarse water stones dish so crazy fast that I may revisit these guys when I'm resetting a bevel. I'm thinking on certain knives where water stones demand a lot of passes and don't remove the burr so readily, they may be very helpful in getting a good clean apex. Just a hunch at the moment, but if they worked well for everyone's grand-dad they're probably still good enough for the likes of us.
For 25 you can buy a Smith's Tri-hone sharpening set with a coarse a Fine and a soft Arkansas Stone I love the darn thing more than My expensive stones there's just something about sharpening on that Arkansas Stone that I really like.
I just bought a couple of Norton clone stones from modern abrasives corporation for 20$ for two stones. One is the 2x8 silicon carbide combo and the other the standard orange and black one.made in USA stones too. The orange on the one is finer than the orange on my real Norton and put a really nice edge on.. Helluva deal IMO
Looks like another good budget stone. Good cutting coarse stone. The results after the Dan's Whetstone is more like what I've been seeing than the last test. It really seems to leave a higher polish than I thought it would. It cuts faster than my Spyderco fine, but leaves a similar finish.
The nore it loads, the brighter the finish will be, I bet. For what it is, I really like it. The schrade reminds ne of the stone i started on. It was a cheap sic stone just like it. Never could get staisfactory edges off it, but it was my beginning days. For your finish to be compareable to the spyderco fine ceramic is a bit surprising. Mine doesn’t seem to be quite that fine. Possible it needs a little more break in
Perfect vid jef. You know we spend so much money on these abrasives and when it comes down to it simple stones work well and needs to be respected! And this is a great kit I was gonna grab my brother a sharpmaker but now I think I’m gonna show him this vid instead and let him choose! Thanks bud also I love my cktg basement 150 stone you really got me into lower grit stones. And please do another vid on thinning having problems because it takes forever and I have to put so much pressure I don’t like the way it makes the stone feel if that makes sense.
I almost bought one of those basement 150s. Should have. I’ll try doing another vid on thinning. You can do just normal pressure. It is gonna take awhile either way.
Great video as always.I bought some metal polish,do you put a small amount on and spread it and use straight away.or put a good dollup and let it dry first.atb thick mick.lol.🙄😂👍☺🍀
I only just watched this video, and I hope you will read this comment, Jef. These harder stones which practically don't shed any grit? You are 100% right, that they work better when you don't let/leave them glazed. And it's not just that they cut faster. If you let the stone glaze over time, it won't simply cut slower/finer. It's not like you will get a better edge but it will take longer. If the stone is glazing over time, it is because it is rubbing more and cutting less, and you will not be able to get a clean, hard apex for a given bevel area. The apex will get burnished and go soft, and the bur will be stubborn to remove. This is where you start needing to put on a microbevel to cut through that soft burnished metal to get the bur to come all the way off. Or you may need a strop. But.... there's another way to achieve this. You do not NEED to recondition the stone. We have known since before Christ how to use these harder stones without glazing them and without reconditioning them, by convexing the surface of the stone. I made a video a few weeks ago to show and demonstrate this. If you think of these hard, non-shedding stones as a file, and you understand how a file works, you will get it. The larger the area of steel against the stone, the more burnishing you get. This is like laying an entire file against a flat plate of low carbon steel. It can't cut, because there's nowhere for the swarf to go. The file only wants to cut a certain area of steel. Same goes for these harder stones. Convexing the harder, non-slurry stone gets the stone to cut in its sweet spot. The modern synthetic are more porous, so they can cut a larger area than the natural harder stones (like novaculite), for a given fineness. They are more efficient in swarf removal, or you could say they have better gullets. But there's no way around the fact that the finer you make the stone, the smaller the area of steel it can cut. Convexing will get the stone to cut as efficiently as possible with as little burnishing as possible. And by using the stone like this, it wears/renews/refreshes on its own. It wears noticeably faster. And it's possible to keep this wear consistent by how you use it. Again, humans have been making and using sharpening stones like this since before Christ. It's been probably at least 100 years since we forgot this. And today, we try to make all stones work the same way as sandstones, Crystalons stones, or soft Japanese waterstones. It's nigh time that the outspoken sharpening gurus/experts/teachers such as yourself at least try this. I uploaded a video a few weeks back, if you want to see it.
To add: I would go so far as to suggest that you are not getting the best possible edge off these hard stones when flat, even despite this modern notion of 'reconditioning." The fact that the stone glazes over time and requires repeated reconditioning clearly demonstrates a higher amount of burnishing that is happening, as compared to convexing the stone; when convexed appropriately, the stone achieves a equilibrium and does not glaze further through any amount of appropriate use. By appropriate, I mean the size of the bevel contacting the stone is kept in the sweet spot. In short: if it feels like the stone isn't cutting properly, if it feels like it is skating, then stop doing it. When thinning the bevel (i.e. reprofiling or major maintenance), and thus contacting a greater surface area of steel, you can adjust and use more of the edge of the stone, where the radius is tighter. When working on a smaller edge bevel, you can use the flatter part of the convexed stone. This is a complete game changer. And it's stupidly simple. The amazing part is how we have seemingly forgotten how to do this. There are roman quarries in France which prove that the Romans made sharpening stones with an elliptical cross sections and rod shaped cross sections with the harder abrasive stones.
@@mildyproductive9726 Does this work as a result of the higher pressure on the smaller surface area of the edge? How so then does it still not eventually glaze/load?
@@rupertkoyd9944 Hi. What it seems you are thinking is exactly where I got stuck when I read about this concept more than 2 decades ago. It's not about getting more pressure on a smaller surface area. There's a right pressure for the task, and that's not necessarily the limiting factor when the stone is flat. The issue is that the surface of a soft Arkansas stone is pretty smooth. There is not a lot of place for the swarf to go. When you make the stone flat, you exacerbate that problem. If you take a mill file to the edge of a 1/4" plate of steel, it will cut very fast. If you lay the entire file flat against the face of that plate, it won't cut hardly at all. It will slowly burnish the surface of that plate and give it a little shine. In the case of the stone, convexing the surface ensures that you are clogging your file as little as possible. In that area of contact you are getting more bite and more cutting relative to the amount of burnishing. And this allows the stone to retain a steady state level of sharpness, indefinitely. There's a natural turnover rate of particles being broken out of the surface. The sharper the radius on this surface, the rougher the surface will become... when you keep the burnishing under control. The more you burnish the edge, the more your apex wilts like lettuce and goes soft. And the more the stone glazes. Instead of getting bite and cutting, you're not letting the stone sink any teeth into the steel. You're just dulling both the stone and your edge. But it makes things nice and shiny.
@@mildyproductive9726 I see. Thank you for the reply. I see in another comment you made about a year ago you said that the india stones are still fine to use the way they are (that is flat) if they are conditioned. Do you still believe this?
I have heard others having success using it. My own experiences, it just smooths the surface out. There isn’t enough “texture” on the paper to really make the stones aggressive. Your mileage may vary. They work well for flattening
Just plain ole sand will work. Albeit, things will go slowly, and the surface condition will most likely be finer than you may want. Flat concrete. Like a car garage. Heck even a sidewalk can work. It tends to make reL deep gouges however. Ive seen guys you perforated sandpaper. Not sure what exactly it was. Looked like chicken wire with abrasive on it. Just do a google search. Sure more than a few ideas will pop up
@@Jef thanks I’m trying to decide what stones Will be good for me. Right now I’m leaning more towards ceramic and diamond cause they seem like less maintenance.
@@xade7863 when i got started, i used dmt plates and spyderco ceramics, based off jdavis' videos. so you really can't go wrong, if that is your decision. the more i learned, the more curious i got, about other stones. conditioning isnt required. it just makes the 'feedback' of the stone better. in reality, all you need is a diamond plate, to keep your water stones flat. everything else is just gravy
