I'm from the UK, it baffles me that people are trying to take away good dog training tools when there are so many aggressive and reactive dogs in shelters and in peoples homes. Keep up the good work and keep on educating people
Trust me it’s shocking. The amount of dogs battersea dogs home put down because of aggression is disgusting, and they won’t allow anyone to use these tools to give them another chance. Need more trainers like haz in the UK! it’s a struggle just finding a trainer that isn’t positive only lol
I'm in UK too, the lack of tools is due to people misusing them instead of using them as training tools, ecollars were being flung on & dogs fried, prongs being misused & injuring dogs. Most of the issues are due to inexperienced/bad owners that get breeds unsuited to their personalities & lifestyles thinking that dogs just behave & there's no training involved nor do they know jack about dog behaviour or body language. That comes down to breeders not vetting homes for experience matches more than income, just cos you got money to buy doesn't make a good owner nor does a high price guarantee a stable dog in adulthood.
@@robward6517 you don't need those tools but you do need someone who is strong enough to handle the dog both psychically & mentally (not get angry at dog which would only make it worse), has the time to train them & socialise them, and a trainee who studies the dogs body language to figure the real why (fear or true aggression + triggers) & how to fix it with balanced training methods plus fully vet home situations over weeks to ensure no lies
@@eartheclipse9623 these tools are being banned because the positive only trainers are trying to get them banned. They don't give a crap how there being used.
@@eartheclipse9623 not every one has a degree in healthy dog management. Some of us are just beautiful dog lovers. I grew up in a home with Rottweilers , German Shepherds and Boxers. My parents had no dog training at all and yet had 6 daughter who all could easily handle these huge dogs. Even now I marvel at those who adopt these strays from 3rd world countries and help them have successful lives here in Canada. They all used a variety of training methods including the E collar but few had formal training. Rather then trade my Dutch Shepherd in for an easier model, I am going to use every possible training strategy (including e collar ) that I can to keep her. Plus like others I feast myself on these type of videos to learn. I realize you are not totally wrong however there is another side to what your saying.
I tried fixing my reactive, agressive dog with positive reinforcment and rediriection, it didn't fix anything, it just "masked" the issues. He was still tense, he still wanted to go at the other dog and as soon as the treats ran out that's exactly what he did. After using corrections he's actually learning to calm down and be LESS stressed in the long term. Tools that help us corect our dogs are important, I'm glad someone is standing up for that.
A study that uses language like “positive only training vs. aversive training” or “positive reinforcement focused training vs. punishment focused training” is a joke. An honest scholar will immediately admit that he compares reward manipulation training (including positive reinforcement and negative punishment) versus reward and aversive manipulation training (including positive reinforcement, negative reinforcement, positive punishment and negative punishment). The data I’ve collected so far implies that using aversives in training (like shock collar) speeds up the training and the dog as long as the fair reward is also present. Abusing aversives without reward can slow down training and cause learnt helplessness. I cannot imagine training a police, military or hunting dog without e-colllar that would be irresponsible and dangerous.
Uses a tool incorrectly. "See! It doesn't work!" You just can't with these people. They will twist everything to villainize training. But results speak for themselves.
it is a tool for lazy people that want results fast, it is like steroids for bodybuilding "But results speak for themselves." but maybe it is about how you get there just my opinion.
INCREDIBLE!! Seriously. I would pay $100 for a live stream to watch a positive-only trainer go toe to toe with you. The problem is nobody from their camp will challenge you.
You got that right!!! Another trainer like Haz actually offered several thousand dollars to any PP trainer to work on several things with a dog while he worked the same issues with an ecollar. And not a single one took him up on it.
I wish people would understand positive reinforcement is once part of a quadrant in operant conditioning. And it is never meant to be used by itself it’s meant to be used as one form of communication in conjunction with others.
E-collars are the absolute best thing to come along since the dog leash. Even with my limited use and experience with them, I am absolutely amazed at the results you get and how quickly they come. Even MORE... they have allowed my dog to be MORE of a dog off leash than just about any dog that has never used an e-collar. The relationship between me and my dog has never been as close and trusting as it is now. I pray the trend of trying to take this tool away from dog trainers doesn't grab hold here in the states. Having said all this, I also understand the importance of correct use of the e-collars.
Our highest value primary reinforcer is “avoiding aversives”. This comes above sex, food, and play because if it were below and of these reinforcers you would not survive. E collars have an ability to tap into the dogs survival instincts without physically harming the dog. When used correctly it is a great tool
@@MrBobbo18 if we didn’t avoid aversives first then we wouldn’t even have an opportunity to eat. Imagine when we were evolving and didn’t recognize that we were no match for a lion using only our bare hands. You would think oh this is great I am going to eat that lion tonight when I’m reality the lion would eat you. Genetically avoiding aversives comes first above all else
I have trained my own pet dog (who's 11 now) using both the prong and the e-collar and we have a better relationship than any other person and their dog that we've encountered. But I keep hearing 'why the prong/e-collar?' And my answer is always 'because it works'! Thank you, sir, I really enjoyed the video + common sense! 😊👍
I've been using it based upon your course. My dog actually gets excited when I signal him. He knows good things will happen and the training is much easier. Thanks for posting this. I do understand the opposite perspective because I've seen people abuse the tools. We actually had the entire family use the eCollars (including my small children) before we went forward.
Re: stress. Conveniently they completely ignore the stress levels when under-socialized dogs encounter anything triggering. Sometimes, like my new Staffy-Ridgeback mix, from up to 80 yards away.
Yep I have seen the info and I also remember when the "experts" said you should not play tug with your dog because it made the, too aggressive to people and you should NEVER ever feed your dog people food, remember that? I take in what the experts say with a c=itical filter. I believe what my dog tells me.
It's all about balance and effective communication, by communicating with your dog in only one way you limit their ability to understand which is why positive only reinforcement is rarely effective beyond basic tricks like sit. It's the same with human children, imagine a child raised only ever being praised and never disciplined or told no. They would end up being a confused menace never able to understand what people actually want from them. Reward good behaviour, correct bad behaviour, you are creating a mental box around the desired behaviour with clearly defined borders that your animal can understand.
17:37 This! I certified in a concepts trainer course(preaching pure positive) a few years back. It helped me grow as a trainer in many ways, but also made me question all my previous training methods. Questioning your own knowledge can be healthy to an extent, but in my particular case, I ended up constantly feeling guilty for correcting my dogs. Our performance suffered and I was eventually forced to abandon a great deal of what the course taught me. Working with some amazing balanced trainers, as well as watching your videos, helped me affirm my own philosophy and gave me a more objective point of view. And in this video, you perfectly put into words what I have been trying to voice out all these years: I am, plain and simple, NOT happy with the level of reliability that pure positive training offers. And I would argue that every serious dog person would be on board with me.
The trainer for our shepherd was a military and police dog handler for years. We did our e collar training with him. The key is knowing how to properly use the tool. It has been a tremendous tool in our pups development. He's stubborn as hell and there is no way treating him to death etc would have worked. He needed a proper correction for the undesired behaviors. Wouldn't trade our Garmin for anything.
We need more people like you in all matters cause the world is turning into this unrealistic un ideal stupid way of life and dealing with everything thats going around
One of these days Beckman is going to break a dogs neck with the stupid gentle leader. Those things are borderline abuse even when the dog isn’t being whipped around by its skull.
He's absolutely right. All kinds of money to be had appealing to the bleeding-hearts. The American Veterinary Society of Animal Behavior posted a "position statement" on balanced training with the same B.S., and of course it's being cited by every bleeding-heart money-grubbing organization as a basis for legislation against these tools, and donations.
Yes it is!!! And if you even think about contradicting it, you are vilified😡. I was lucky when I started using an ecollar as my vet had trained hunting dogs for years with one. He even gave me advice.
a 'shock collar' is a different device entirely from an 'electronic collar' I have owned and used and been shown how to use both. They are VERY different in their purpose and correct use method.
I really hope these collars don't get banned, used properly they absolutely save dogs from being euthanized and can prevent grevious bodily harm to humans.
Several things at play here: - most people don't have time or know how to read scientific papers - it might be hard to truly run an unbiased study - the bar to publish in some scientific papers is lower than others, meaning that "science" may not always employ the scientific method My takeaway is that when I have some time I'm gonna read the studies myself and form my own opinion
This guy making this video included. The study specifies that there was poultry and sheep present. Yet he seems certain it was done in an empty field or building.
@@Azeazezar the study states penned poultry and penned sheep and the study does not state the distance the dogs were from said poultry and sheep. So while it is true that Haz did say empty field which is not accurate , penned poultry and sheep are not going to provide the same stimulus as free roaming livestock.
@@Azeazezar The Lincoln study does not specify sheep were present, they were NOT present for the PPs [too dangerous for the sheep. Lack of real control?] The ecollar dogs had to "work" on a Scottish hillside in the middle of [a bad] winter!!
If anyone were interested, I did a bit of reading. I was surprised to see that 2 of the 5 studies that I read (unscientifically chosen by their order in my google scholar search!!) actually fell to the "ecollar works" category. So at the very least the _perception_ that "science" is telling us that ecollars are bad appears to be misplaced! It also seems that the quality of studies (that I read so far) is really quite poor. Anyone able to point to landmark studies in the area that I (probably) missed?
I have used an e-collar on my dog over the last 2 years and I will never go back. It is literally an extension to the leash. It is a life saver both to the trainer and the dog. The e-collar I use (probably all are the same) has a beep, vibrate and shock mode. I probably can count on one hand the number of times I used the shock. 99% of the time the beep mode does the trick fo me.
its as simple as this for me, your hands have a reach of a few feet, a lead has a reach of a few meters, a dog will ignore a human yelling as much as it wants, but an ecollar closes the gap and space in between the handler and the dog and allows a physical stimulus to reach the dog over hundreds of feet. this alone wins me over without even considering using the ecollar as anything but a 'tickle' as you say
Thanks for this! The only problem I've ever had with e-collars are the folks who use them incorrectly. Those same inexperienced users are likely part of the push to have them banned. Blaming their own shortcomings on the device. I adopted my shepherd mix when he was 3. I was going to use an e-collar for recall because he really isn't motivated by treats, toys, praise. Squirrels & bunnies tho...let me tell you lol. Soon as he saw the e-collar, he urinated right there on the floor & I immediately knew he had been improperly "trained" w one. I had to desensitize him to even allowing me to put it on him. I've never actually had to use the "shock" function. Just the "beep", so I wouldn't even consider that a "correction" so much as just a tap on the shoulder to get his attention. I still only use it for recall. I live in a major city &, tho his recall is great, I know there is always a chance he might get to a busy street before I can get his focus back on me. I also have it on him at the dog park. He's a serial humper (yes, neutered) which could also get him into trouble if the other dog reacts aggressively. One beep & he's happily bounding right back to me, tongue lolling out of his big doggo grin. I would not, however, use an e-collar for reactivity/aggression. My boy had that issue as well & it was extreme - people & other dogs threw him into a blind rage. I simply desensitized him in controlled settings & very carefully re-socialized him. Worked a dream even though it took a very long time & a lot of patience. Flash forward 11 years & I don't have a single "complaint" about my good boy.
Thanks for sharing your insight and experience! I am getting an e collar for my pup bc positive only encouragement isn't working completely! Keep up the great work I greatly appreciate it!
I'm a trainee scientist(still studying environmental science (everything lol)) & just got an e-collar for my 1 yr. old one, why? because I plan to hike/camp and train him to do scent work for conservation studies. so far I've had it on him twice so far & neither time was it turned on yet. binge watched how to condition too. let's see how they'll be able to debunk/charge me with abuse when I have a deep interest & scientific knowledge in animal behaviour, conservation/wildlife, social structures and evolution and practical experience with a variety of animals and environments. There are so many studies on animal behaviour that does not fit into reality because they are in controlled environments with another species vs the real wild world & with their own species.
Spot on. My 6 month old Catahoula has a high hunt drive and always pulls in the direction of the tracks that he is scenting as we walked. For the early months I allowed him that freedom because I feel it was good for development of his olfactory sense. Now that he is older, I have to have him under control as he prone to biting and can show “ aggression” towards people and dogs. I carried my bait bag and used rewards trying to train him to heel and what not. Only had success while the food was available. Added the Herm Sprenger into the equation just a couple weeks ago and now we can walk downtown and he will heel and sit as needed. Still needs work but needless to say it was the introduction of obligation through the pinch collar that created that immediate real behavioural change. All it has done is improve our relationship seeing as I am happier, dog is calmer and we actually walk TOGETHER now.
Haz you bloody beauty, thanks for everything you do, now need the public and not just us dog training fanatics to see this and many other videos. Funny how these highly qualified scientists didn't think of the bright idea to record every training session and upload it as part of their conclusive paper so we can look at as you say the real overall picture, and not just their laser guided interpretation of their own study. In this day and age, just unbelievable how they can get away without posting any video of their "training", yet for example BF Skinner can post a video of pigeons he trained to play ping pong decades ago, in black and white for god sake.
Excellent work these dogs are hard working pups. discipline is a must there are dangers e collars will prevent a dog from running into environmental danger or cause danger. with the proper training.
I would have loved if you actually read the study in detail and talked about the shortcomings from a science point of view as well, it would have given a more well rounded overview. For anyone interested: Positive points: -use of ECMA accredited e collar -control group 1 - e collar trainers without the use of e collar -use of APDT UK members for control group -stimuli adapted to dogs sensitivity -trainers allowed to use food rewards with no limit _dogs trained in an enclosed area with fenced off sheep Negatives: -different weather conditions (winter for e collar dogs) - in my poinion one of the most important limitations -funding bias -unknown brand of e collar -unknown accreditation of e collar trainers -e collar use 'best practice' reffered to not described in detail -short training time -no record of stimuli frequency or strength used (overuse possible) -same environment throughout trial (desensitization) -focused on two commands rather than well rounded obedience -no new distraction introduced -no ability to use toys as reinforcement *and probably a lot more. Not a horribly designed study but clear risk of bias present
Something tells me no one would watch that video. 🙂 Many of the studies touted today as a standard of proof on a variety of topics lack critical information and make claims based on correlation instead of causation. Good that you read and understood what the issues were. Had they conducted a blind trial using competing motivators and a more realistic test site, as well as ensured the collars and trainers where of high quality the results would have had more meaning. However, for their purposes it was more then enough to push forward the agenda.
@@jfkst1 I agree with #1&3 but regarding treats it was trainers choice how much reinforcement to use, thus R+ trainers chose to use more treats and ecollar trainers chose to use less
@@klaudiacebula2298 Absolutely true. However, operant conditioning doesn't necessitate mutually exclusive inputs. That could very well mean the positive reinforcement schedule should be more frequent rather than the positive punishment quadrant should be reduced/abandoned as the study is implying.
@@jfkst1 that is very true and I do agree but that is the issue with studies like this, this study was essentialy comparing different trainer's methods rather than balanced vs R+ only and it would not be in line with the methodology to ask the trainers to change their methods. I do however agree that the conclusions are written in a biased way and imply a negative consequence when using e collar rather than highlighting that increasing the reinforcement AND using e collar could increase the overall benefit since with lower reinforcement the two methods are about equal in the study
With positive reinforcement training, nothing will change behavior wise. It just masks issues with food/trying to distract the dog. It never works. I'd much rather give a quick, correction of a verbal NO and follow it up with a quick physical correction (prong or e collar). Much faster, no BS way 😉
Ikr, with only treats all you’ve done is give your dog a choice to do things, you have to reinforce it, I’ve used it in my dog and recommended it for clients, and their dogs are amazing with it, a high energy Pitt bull who would not be recalled at all at the dog park will come when being called once, tell me that isn’t effective
Positive+Negative=Reliability. It's a balancing act. Tip the scales too far on one side and the results just plain suck. Been there. Done that. Was corrected by Haz. Didn't even have to run for my safe space. I owned my shit and learned from it. Accountability is everything. Too bad that society has lost focus on that fact. Passing grades are given to failures and trophies are handed to losers.
I will add that the collar never hurts the dog, he presents his head for me to attach it and he's now amazingly obedient off leash. He rarely needs a reminder now. People are actually jealous my dog is well behaved off leash while their aggressive rats on leash are trying to bite mine.
Thank you 💞💞💞💞💞💞💞💞 I have a year's worth of ecollar training on my dog and I get compliments about how well behaved, how engaged, and most importantly he trust me. Now I know I am not even on your level, but I have 16yrs of grooming experience at PetSmart ( obviously we conflicted with each other and I left ) but the level of danger I experience on the daily because of spoiled dogs is ridiculous, and you can not protect yourself in these environments. Anywho I can prove like you how well my technique works. That is just confirmation bias because the study wasn't duplicated peer reviewed and so on. It would take years of research and actual studies to prove their point. Like you said in real life situations. This abuse of science gives cause for people not to believe the real science which you showed.
A "study" is only as informative as it is comprehensive. A "short study" cannot prove or disprove any theory - it can only raise MORE QUESTIONS - and the need for further study. Obviously, Haz, you produce RESULTS - lasting results. Tested - Tried - and TRUE. So do any of us really give a dog whiz about poorly organized, short study "science" - HELLZ TO THE NO! Thank you. Carry on.
I think a ton of anti-Ecollar people have the belief that the ecollar is "effective" from the moment its put on. They completely disregard the conditioning required in order to make it a positive experience. A clicker, not properly conditioned, could cause a lot of fear in a dog. If you associate a clicker to physical punishment then you have successfully turned a marker into a fear inducing thing. The ecollar can be conditioned for many things such as a recall que. The ecollar is so powerful but in the wrong hands it is terrifying. Edit: if you revisit this study, I think it would be super cool if you did a comparison. Like, train up a dog without ecollar and study how long it takes the dog to figure out the wanted behavior and then compar that with an ecollar trained dog. I love what the ecollar has done for my dog and our bond. My ACD has developed a better relationship with me than when we focused on +R only. It's important IMO that a handler understand and have many tools in their training tool box. I use +R to teach new commands then incorporate the ecollar when the dog understands. I'm currently learning about BAT 2.0 to learn and help my dog learn social skills (my dog isn't a fan of others and I think it would help if we learned proper social cues and help develop friendly curiosity)
I wish We lived closer to this company. Our mal is doing great but man she could be doing much better with his and his company’s help. Awesome job guys.
Positive only training does not work on ALL dogs. Temperament and personality of the dog should be the deciding factor on what training methods to use. I have trained each of my past device dogs. Each one was trained using the method that worked for THAT dog. Some methods didn’t work on certain dogs. I love learning new methods of training. ANY training method or training device CAN be used in an abusive manner. Training equipment/device CAN cause injury when not used CORRECTLY. Keep posting I enjoy watching. Some studies are done a certain way to get the results wanted. Which I called rigged to get results they want.
The thing that stands out to me about the study is that they only used extremely simple commands. R+ probably DOES work more quickly for teaching one off “tricks”, but if I had to guess, long term retention is lower, and there’s no way on earth you can train a dog to the highest levels doing complex tasks using only R+.
I trained military dogs for years. I have recently started my own pet training company. About half of my clients so far are people who have already had there dogs trained by positive trainers. The dogs are usually really good at sitting and giving there paw. (I’ve grown to hate that trick) but much beyond that it all falls apart. Especially dogs that are reactive.
Over here in Sweden, prong collars and e collars are forbidden and it’s not “acceptable”to correct your dog, the positive only people have unfortunately taken over
I use e-collars so my dogs can run off-leash in the forest. They go BONKERS when I get the e-collars out. Why? Because they are getting ready to go to Dog Disneyland - aka the forest. I use a Mini-Educator set at 5 to 11 - sometimes 15 or so for many distractions like Elk. The real key is that the dog has to know that YOU control the collar. Once that is understood, e-collars are excellent tools to keep your dogs safe. My dogs live a life better than most humans. One working line GSD and 1 half working/half show line. They both do well on e-collars. 100% positive trainers are not trainers, they are simply bribing their dogs into behaving - as long as they are getting food. Try that with a 5 year old and see what kind of monster the child becomes. No difference for dogs.
Maybe I didn't understand the hypothesis but to me it said: how long does it take someone to make a dog a) sit b) come with 1) positive incentive or 2) dog e-collar. You can teach any young dog to sit or lift his paw in 20 minutes with positive reinforcement or even passive methods like wait for dog to sit then say "sit". Give it a few tries and the dog will learn. What you can't do is the same with an e-collar. why? Because it's not the same tool. You can't punish the dog until he does something. I think our trainer friend got a bit upset because that study attacked his believes. That study deserved a 2 min video explaining the positive reinforcement theory and correction tools theory.
LOL !! I understand, but the issue that, at least me, I see a lot is a moron with a dog that has no business training or the dog been trained, gets an e-collar and starts zipping the poor animal for no good reason and hurting them to the point of burning the dogs neck with it. But everything used properly works well. Is the same difference as a gun, in the hands of and ignorant morons is dangerous. GREAT VIDEO.
I have spent 3 years training my GSD I would love my E collar which has been lying in the UK for two years can't get it into Cyprus as they are banned it would just finish my girls obedience great chat
I'm from the UK. I bought a GSD at 6 months old. Due to the covid lockdown it hadn't been properly socialised. He was aggressive towards other dogs. I brought in a "positive only" dog trainer, and after many sessions and hundreds of pounds there was no difference...shock, horror. In the UK its almost impossible to find a good trainer thats not positive only. So in the end we had to return the dog to the breeder. Proper studies need done on this subject, and not one sided studies.
Him not being properly socialized has nothing to do with it. I have GSD for 6 years and i only used positive training. My dog is not agressive toward other dogs he just pulls really hard and wants to go meet dog so bad and when i dont let him then he starts barking out of frustration. He has actually met 100's of different dogs but this never improved infact it got worse that when i would start walking away from the dog he would pull with all his might injuring his throat. The final straw was when he pulled so much that for two weeks he was throwing up white mucus and making throw up sounds because he had hurt his neck. Finally i started ecoller training and instantly it fixed the issue where as before i could have had a whole lamb 100's of steaks in front of him and the only thing he would care about is going to meet that dog. Positive training effective to a certain degree but if you want reliability ecoller is a must.
@@15xgg80 him not being properly socialised has everything to do with it. It's a key developing stage. This is why it's called "socialising period" for a reason. They need to be introduced to different dogs, people, noises and so on so they don't become fearful of it. Don't take my word for it, look into it for yourself. Without it they will not be a well balanced dog. As for leash pulling, that's corrected through proper training, not hard to correct.
You mean he had fear based aggression, treats wouldn't work but learning with a slip lead or martingale 'pop' would have, I've had 3 gsds & now 2 Mali's. I expect some reactivity from time to time with my dogs they aren't robots, especially until they are 2.5 years, it's you as an owner who needs to know your dog, suss the situation before you take your dog in there & know how & when to correct him/take him away. Overloading the dog in one session can undo good work. For instance going from a quiet garden to a city centre...that's scary even for some people, doesn't mean you get to act like an ass though & some dogs learn early (especially big breeds) that people avoid them & if they bark people move away from them which reinforces that barking at people out of fear instead of working through it. , Most owners also remove barking pups from situation everytime out of embarrassment too which again reinforces that it's bad & that the dog is leader because if he barks you take him away from where he doesn't want to be, thus getting what he wants & not learning anything. obviously you have to start at distances from the scary stuff, correct/ignore & reward at right times to gain control there before moving closer to distractions, it takes time, lots of it.
Man it pains me when unqualified people speak on things they have not the slightest clue about! I'm a trainer and have a background in shutzhund dealing with powerful imported working dogs back in the day mostly Shepherds and rotties that bite insanely hard. Most my cases now days are severe aggressiveness and poor heeling! Those people talking if they were put in front of a powerful aggressive or protective dogs who had reactiveness they would probably more then like be severely injured if not killed pulling out a treat I'm being completely honest they have no clue!!
If you need e and prong for sports obviously you are the one who has no clue. I must laugh when I read such nonsense. It's not possible training just Positive, but nobody need abusive bullshit, just incompetent people. I train strong breeeds simce 46 years and do not need this bullshit. All my Wolfdogs walk offleash. Why? Because I can. Fortunately I live in a civilized country where all thiese tools for incompetent people are banned. 🤣
@@saarlooswolfhund6237 would love to see we can share info you can see me walking my dogs off leash for miles that's no issue! The dogs I'm around and been around are very powerful and are imports with high quality bloodlines to work which means their drive and intensity level is always on 100 a e collar is a great tool for me and I get great results especially when combined with other things to effectively communicate to a dog. Also you have to understand if they were in pack because they do have a hierarchy mindset if you left 6 dogs out alone to play or whatever you'll notice in time hierarchy being established alphas give corrections to match the consequences of unwanted behavior if the dog portraying to be a alpha doesn't stay on top of his game he gets over thrown fights break out my point is they correct each other physically just so you know not with treats 😉
Haz you are just too funny. Love watching your videos, especially when you are obviously enjoying yourself so much. Victor and Gage seem to be having a blast LOL. Obviously very HAPPY dogs!!! As for Vasco he might very well have been put down if you hadn't been able to help him. For that reason alone, the e collar would be worth it. I would definitely shock my dog if it meant saving him from being euthanized. You did a great job with this one. Let science disprove that. ;0)
i'm in sweden, and here, e-collars are illegal so obviously i haven't used one. e-collars not being in the training vocabulary for swedish dogowners, i wouldn't say i need one to get my dog listening to me. however; when it comes to a certain type of dog, or dogs that turned out bad due to lousy people, i can more than imagine that an e-collar can do wonders. and by "a certain type of dog", i mainly refer to hardcore working dogs with a solid mental core. i don't really have an opinion on how an e-collar works as a tool since i haven't tried it. but i AM agreeing with the fact that (at least it's what i think) any tool can be used right or wrong. if an e-collar is used in the wrong way, i'm guessing it's really bad. however, if it's used in the right way, i can't see why it should be banned. i think it's all a matter of mindset around dogs. mine's a bit different from the positive--only-people, and i usually disagree with their attitude towards dogs and dog training.
E-collars can be great when used correctly, unfortunately I am not skilled at using them, even though a professional trained me how to use it, I still messed up my German shepherd using it on him and it strained our relationship, he fought against it every step of the way. Once I ditched the e-collar, we started getting along and with positive reinforcement and slowly but steadily teaching him impulse control, his reactivity has gone away. I was never able to accomplish that with the e-collar or prong (used both). Not bashing e-collars, trainers are amazing at using them, but the general public is not. I'm not a fan of most "positive only" trainers either, most of them don't know what they're doing and make things worse. Fortunately I found a good trainer
Lol....obviously so stressed out that neither dog stopped wagging there tails throughout the experiment. Im from the uk an to be honest sometimes i think we live in a nanny state. I personally believe less dogs would b euthanised for serious behaviour problems if E collars werent such an issue with do gooders. My Beorbeol has been trained by me with the herm springer prong in secret because of silly rules and i prefer to know my dog will behave anywhere an recall wen asked....it saves lives in the end👍👍😊
For issue with sheep chasing a lot of these dogs are city dogs who have never or rarely seen a sheep/deer & owners let them off leash in unfamiliar settings & expect the dog not to be curious or to see something to chase. Most should just keep dogs on a long line and as puppies (& as adults) take them to country (county to you) shows where they will see sheep, pigs cattle & horses + lots of other dogs, people & kids, that helps to families them & make livestock uninteresting to the dog too. You would still need to be able to correct undesirable behaviour which is largely a martingale or slip chain/lead pop for me anyway.
positive only when faced with anything past puppies and already good dogs, ignore it and say it can't be trusted and they should have been adopted instead, which is why dogs get put down, all shelters are positive only dogs that have issues and are aggressive get put down first because THEY CANT help those dogs because their methods don't work on them
They have banned them in England from Feb 23. There is a few weeks to act. If you're in the Uk check out ARDO or Jamie Penrith, take the lead video where he explains what to do to help.
it such laughable science but people will believe it because it what they wanna hear, I can have the prefect dog with the power of my love. Dogs don't care bout your love when that rabbit takes off across the road into oncoming traffic.
