It's not fair to say Pippen couldn't win without Jordan. He only had one full season where he led the Bulls by himself (and it was a valiant and historic effort). To compare, Jordan waited 7 seasons before he won a chip, and it took Kobe 5 seasons to win a chip without Shaq. History wasn't as kind to Pippen as the circumstances of his career did not play out in the same storybook manner.
shutterbugblues - and this is looking at things much too simply. MJ was drafted on to a terrible team with no chance of winning. Pippen arrived in MJ's fourth season and so naturally he got a ring earlier. Kobe had everything mapped out for him by the Lakers and the NBA since his entry into the NBA. How is any of this relevant to an assessment or comparison of each player? Pippen had two seasons actually to lead and he couldn't get it done although it was a valiant effort in '93-'94. In '94-'95, he led the team that eventually was spiraling out of the playoffs before MJ returned and dragged the team into the playoffs with 13-4 record in the last 17 games. Pippen might have had a great overall game but he clearly wasn't on the same level as MJ and more importantly, he was not the leader of men that MJ was. His refusal to play in the last moments of a pivotal game against the Knicks because the play was drawn up for Kukoc is the kind of failure as a leader that MJ simply would never have let happen. This lack of leadership is what Phil Jackson also cited as perhaps the biggest difference between MJ and Kobe. I love Pippen but too many people today who didn't watch have bought into this narrative that he was as good as MJ which wasn't the case. His one weakness was that he was not a natural shooter and his jump shot was ultimately, unreliable. Pippen also wasn't a better defender than MJ which is another common myth - anybody who watched their careers knows that not only was MJ the best wing defender in the NBA, this fact was acknowledged by anyone and everyone. Pippen did become a great defender over time but there were many great perimeter defenders in that era. Pippen may have covered some tough players but this was always determined by position, not by Pippen's mythical superiority as a defender. He simply did not have the foot speed of MJ.
@@boogieloo1831 Yeah, you never watched basketball in those days, you're just another Jordan **** rider. Everytime someone praises Scottie Pippen, you can rest assure that Jordan's groupies will be there to bad mouth Scottie.
@@boogieloo1831 Say what you want about his refusal to play, but he wanted to be given leadership of that team and wasn't trusted by the coach, which wasn't on him. Jordan would always be given that shot if he were there, and if it was drawn up for Kukoc had Jordan been there who can speculate what Jordan's reaction would be.
@@mojebi3804 Not sure how many people have read this ... but right before Jordan hit "The Shot" against Cleveland in the playoffs in Game 5 in 1989, Doug Collins had called a timeout and had started to call a play for Dave Corzine ... when Jordan slammed his fist down on the clipboard and said "Give me the fuckin' ball" and Doug changed the play, and we all know how the rest played out. So I'm guessing it would have gone similarly to that lol!!
@@JahleelX-xx9wd MJ-Pippen is more comparable to Lebron-Wade. Both needed a premier player to win a championship. As much as I love Pip, he's not in the same category as Lebron.
Why do people have to mention Lebron on EVERY single video that has to do with basketball.. ? He's good and so are other players! Who ever said that only one good player can exist on the NBA?
@@JahleelX-xx9wd I understand what you're saying. But I mean he was still the leader of that team. And the fact that he stood out playing with Scottie is testament of how good he was. Two 3peats ain't nothing to play with it
I smell a LBJ fanboy from distance. Just need to read the comments and i know you're one. Anyway Jordan gave Pip His credit all the time. Who did He mentioned first in His hall of fame speech? It was pip. He also said no Pip no 6 championships.
If Pippen didn't play for Chicago he would have avg 30 points 7 rebs 3 steals and 6 assists. I dont think that M.J was so much better player from Scottie.
Am I the only tired of hearing Dominique was better? Only thing Nique did better was score. He was not in Scottie's class as a ball handler, passer, defender or even leader.
List of excuses you made... Isaiah was past his prime Laimbeer was past his prime Lakers lost Kareem Dynastys broke up Celtics were done Lmao! Excuses,excuses Bulls 6 rings..Pippen,Jordan monster combo!!
Absolutel. If Bosh could rebound and play D in the same universe as Rodman, i'd be happy. Rodman literally averaged over double the rebound's Bosh get's, and he defended Shaq very well despite being like 6-7 inches shorter, and 100 pounds lighter, While Bosh struggles to defend Hibbert who is like 3 inches taller and 30 pounds heavier.
I could care less what Magic and Isaih said. If Cooper and Byron Scott weren't injured, they might've won the title that year anyway. MJ's teammates are underrated because their in his shadow maybe or people don't wanna give them credit because it will take away from MJ, but he had some knockdown shooter's, historic rebounder's, and lockdown defender's, plus his coach had a crazy system. Still, MJ's record in the playoff's w/o Pippen is 1-9 till this day.
As soon as you said you could care less about what Magic and Isaiah said I knew I wouldn't get far with you.But ill try.. Jordan was a rookie in 84-85 his team lost 3-1 vs a Bucks team loaded with Moncrief(85 All star)Cummings(85 All star)Paul Pressy(All defense)Craig Hodges(whom you gave praise to for helping Jordan win titles)..And the coaching matchup was Kevin Loughery vs Don Nelson(you mentioned great coaching helped Jordan win so im sure you would give the coaching edge to Nelson)...
In 85-86 Bulls had Orlando Woolridge and Rookie Oakley vs one of the greatest teams in NBA history..the 86 Celtics.. A lineup of Paxson Dailey Pippen Oakely Corzine.. Is not beating a lineup of Johnson Ainge Bird McHale Parrish..not in this lifetime or any other so Pippen would lose to them as well. Maybe this is too much for you to comprehend..Im not saying the Bulls sucked without Jordan but what im saying is that you can replace the 84-87 Bulls with any legend and that team aint winning!
You aren't wrong about that. We also need to admit the Bulls weren't as deep top to bottom as any of those teams. They were top heavy with Jordan and Pippen. And a very good player, third guy, in Grant and later Rodman.
Vlade wasn't a game changing big man, Perkins was the best big on those laker's. Also, the Laker's were missing Cooper and Scott in the finals. Also, Isaih Thomas was at the end of his career in the 90's, his #'s dropped dramatically. And you say they were in their primes? They won 40, 20 and 28 games from 92-95.
I say Bulls lost in 8s because Pippen and Jordan had to face stacked teams..Magic in his 93 halftime interview said "if you take Michael away and you take myself away,my Lakers would dominate them" after Jordan you had nothing..Zeek even says in the same interview that "when you talk about the Bulls,youre really only talking about Jorda"Lmao..They are admitting that without stacked teams they couldn't beat Jordan..notice they didn't even acknowledge Pippen?Ouch!
You said "Pistons record 91 was 40,20,28 wins...Not a title contender let alone a playoff team" Bulls beat them in 91 when they won 50 games proving that they could beat them as a 50 win team as well. You say Magic retired..Bulls beat Magic in 91 as well and like I said Magic must be overrated then because his 91 supporting cast was better then Jordans 84-87 cast would you admit?Probably not lls!
You should research those teams and what they lost but what they had left.Karem left Lakers got Vlade..Vlade challenged Shaqs Lakers past his prime so Magic had a solid Vlade.Pistons lost 1 player Rick Mahorn..Still had Rodman,Salley,Dumars all prime they just got beat.
Over the course of their career's, DWade is a scorer than Pip hands down. BUT, when playing with their respective super star, Pippen (with MJ) is better on both sides of the ball than Wade (w Lebron). Age and injuries play a key factor here, but that doesn't take away frm the fact that MJ had more help than Lebron. Let's not even bring up how the Bull's had a better offensive system, and didn't get killed by any half decent big man they played.
Both Scottie and Michael lost even after Scottie got there..They didn't start winning until they found the right pieces for the triangle offense.If you mean winning record don't forget that the Bulls sucked ass in 84-85 even Bird said so Bird and I quote"Michael didn't win because Michael didn't have a team".85-86 Jordan missed 60 games.86-87 the roster got worst.87-88,88-89,89-90 Pip was there Bulls still lost.
Wrong! Bulls didn't win because Coach Doug Collins was holding them back. Collins couldn't coach, he ran everything through Jordan and ignored his other players. Collins favored Brad Sellars and other players over Scottie, so Scottie wasn't being used properly until Collins was fired and Phil Jackson became head coach. Also Horace Grant was riding the bench and playing behind Charles Oakley whom Grant was better than! That's how stupid Doug Collins was! Phil first year as head coach was 89'-90', Pippen made his first allstar team. Phil took the ball out of Michael hands and let Scottie run from the 3 position. Bulls won it all next season.
@@Curtchrisdagod The Bulls were in the ECF in 89 with Doug, Grant was a rookie and wasn't better than Oakley yet, Grant was a starter the next season when Oakley left. Pippen was still developing and had to earn his spot, Pippen made All-Star in 90 but not 91 nor All-NBA. Also Pip needs the ball in his hands because he's was avg to below avg playing off-ball.
Lello Binbumbam non guardare le partite con jordan lo so che quelle sono bellissime e gustose da vedere.. guarda quelle quando jordan e' andato via la prima volta,in alcune partite pippen dalla tensione faceva gli airball dalla lunetta,a me piace come a te! pero' quando e' andato via jordan si sono visti tutti i suoi limiti.
You say those teams stop contending because they were old.injured..I say the only way they were contenders was because they had all the top talent in the 80s..save for the Pistons who played dirty to win..Theres a video "Bird hates Laimberr"...wanna know why the Celtics beat the Pistons during dirty play?More weapons..Bulls had 1 weapon..Celtics and Lakers had 4 or 5..90s the teams were more even 1-2 punches vs1-2 punches as opposed to 4 punch teams vs 1 or 2 punch teams.
Research. Pistons record after 91 was 40 20 and 28 wins, NOT a title contender let alone playoff team. Magic retired, and Celts stopped contending at the beginning of the 90's. Where is the bullshit claim at? MJ and Pip couldnt beat them in the 80's, they ALL fell off early 90's, MJ and Pip win vs lesser team's in the expansion era. And didn't you make about 3-4 excuses yourself? Like MJ vs Bucks, outmatched. MJ vs Celts, outmatched. Your like weird and confused here lol
Magic,Worthy vs Jordan and Pippen?"even matchup.. Magic,Worthy,Kareem vs Jordan and Pippen?Of course Lakers win that matchup..Like Magic said "who could stop Kareem"... Kareem is a top 3 center all time..Heres an matchup you witless dummy... Magic,Worthy,Kareem vs Jordan,Pippen,Olajuwan..See how an eye for talent works fool... You think Dave Corzine is on the same level as Kareem,Parrish what a joke Lmao!
Pistons,Lakers,Celtics were old? Dumars was 27..not old or injured in 91 playoffs Thomas was 29 not old or injured in 91 playoffs Rodman was 29 not old or injured in 91 playoffs 91 Pistons beat the Celtics to reach ECFs..Bird was injured so it was the Pistons who beat and injured Bird not Jordans Bulls..cant help who you face. Magic was MVP in 1990...No Kareem still left him with even talent with Jordan..Kareem,Cooper gave the Lakers more firepower than Bulls..Even Magic said so..cont..
You said "Still,MJ's record in the playoffs w/o Pippen 1-9 til this day"..Thats where I went..I already answered your other bullshit claim that the great teams of the 80s were don't by the 90s you said..Pistons,Celtics Lakers were done..But the Pistons won title in 90 stupid how could they be done a year later?Lmao!Magic won MVP back to back years before 91 he wasn't done dummy plus he had Hall of fame small forward just like Jordan had Pippen(Worthy)you seem to be making excuses lls!
Your dabbling off. Celtic's were done by the beginning of the 90's. Piston's lost Lambeir and production from Isaih, the team's MVP since he was past his prime, at the end of his career. Laker's lost Kareem, and eventually Magic. Im not saying MJ should've beat the Celts in his younger year's. Im saying he didnt win until those Dynasty's got broke up. Your making excuses to combat me somehow, yet preaching the very point im trying to make. Maybe you cannot comprehend.
